So they did it, they screwed up crafting material collecting

Elsonso

STEVIL wrote: »

Ok so what you are saying is IF they go with an entirely new crafting system, then the way things are done now should change drastically.

i agree.

Frankly, tho, if they remove the lower gear cap on mats, like they did with the upper for glyphs/potencies, crafting will be pretty much at the "while develop see changes in capability of gear then once maxed all harvest for any use" and thats as close as you get until levels go away IF that ever happens. (and of course, it doesn't take nodes from anybody in any area just enables master crafters more options than they have now.)

But yeah, obviously 1T and ESO wide could go levelless but its not anything like simple and likely not coming for a long long time.

I was originally upset with the scaled crafting nodes, until I realized that this was just a symptom of a greater rot that has set in.

In my opinion, they need to do a "One Itemization" update where they take the whole itemization and crafting system and move it forward 3 years and make it work seamlessly with One Tamriel. Removing the lower cap on gear is just a band-aid, and does nothing to really fix the fact that itemization, and crafting, is not keeping up with One Tamriel and Champion System. Both are just being carried along.

You are right in that this won't be coming for a long long time. I don't think they have the resources or funding to pull off something like this, even with Crown Crates and F2P. I expect they will do "cheap and easy" and slap band-aids on it.

STEVIL

Rune_Relic wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Agree with OP.

I dont buy and sell. I am fully independant....or try to be.
I have 1 main crafter who spend all points and skills focused in to crafting.
I have alts that leave the crafting to the main crafter so they can allocate skill points into the areas they need.
I require 0 gold and can remain free from all the trading hassle.
At least I could.

The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away
1T has taken away my ability to be self sufficient with 0 gold.

Awaits the ....but MMO crap.
I also spent much time crafting for others who wanted 8-9 trait low level gear (FOC) for use or decon.
If I have surplus stuff...and friends with no gold need it ...I craft free goods.
So dont even go there.

I cant decon low level gear with 0 gold value as they return nothing.
You cant be awarded low level gear drops at max level for decon.
You cant go to a specific zone and get mats of a desired level.
All you can do now is buy....so my independence has been stolen.

Now I have to play the 'buy/sell' game instead of just the 'crafting' game
Writ RNG doesnt give me anything but a chance of what I may or may not need.

First bold, your ability to be independent with 0 gold and now commerce has not been taken away.
if by "my" you mean your main character crafter they can harvest anything they need anywhere anytime. gear drops, set drops etc always useful. 'Nuff said.

I can not go to location X and get material Y

if by "my" you mean all your characters, that crafting for your alts bit, the alts routine casual play harvest even if only drops, gear always at their level now easily gain the mats needed and gear needed for decon sufficient for anything short of excessive recrafting. just in routine quest play my decon has been running like it never has because all the gear is relevent to someone's levels. Even casual harvesting now produces tons of mats. (Now yeah you might shift the "when i craft" a bit... but that is not lost functionality just altered functionality and every time there is a major change to the game someones functionality changes.)

if by "my" you mean your crafter, your alts and however many others you have who need yo to craft for them and for you to provide the mats, the demand for crafted sets is going way down with the scaling set drops, the casual harvest of decon-worthy gear is going up and now even with just casual play and harvest their need for you to provide mats is gonna go way down. heck, as i have said before, the entire "desirability" of crafted sets during the development levels is very much diminished by the scaled set drops flooding into inventories from just routine questing, delving etc.

The independence of the vast majority of character in play is going UP and in a big way precisely because of the things you and others are complaining about.

"The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away"

No.

YES. How can a game improve if it does not improve for EVERYBODY !

The whole point of improvements and updates is to make the game work better. Sometimes for the gam,e to work better, some previous ways to get things done have to change. happens most every time they do an update.

and every time there is someone here or there who yells and screams and preaches doom of the game or the sub-game and so on and so forth... and every time... after a short bit in play once the transitions work out... it moves on to be seen as "yeah, overall this works."

Thing about this time is the crafters aren't looking at "need to spend gazillions to regold a new type of gear" just chaning operations.

Like i have said, i think they still need some adjustments... easiest is to remove the lower cap for mat use... so basically every node your master crafter ever harvests will be useful for crafting any level gear for you, for you alt or for anyone.

But some people seem to like having many inventory slots consumed so... if that isn't sufficient... they can also add farms/mines in select areas where you can "harvest" lower tier mats but leave the totalit of the nodes scaling in tact.

they already added lower level packs into writ payouts.

WRITS are RNG. I have no interest in RNG. I was perfectly happy spending TIME farming instead. RNG gives maybes...not certainties.

But by far IMO the biggest impact to crafting for equip is the devaluation of it in general by the increase in drop-set availability and variety. its just not as crucial to have these crafted sets during development periods where they will be obsolete very quickly compared to the next drop set you find at a higher level.

SO you are defending this because it benefits YOU and the the buy/sell game you want to play

its a double whammy - demand for crafted sets in the developing levels is going down and gear drops and nodes will provide more than sufficient mats for what crafting is chosen anyway.

IMO the biggest issue is not how can you change up things to keep mats for crafting lower level gear... but more like you wont be asked to craft as much at that level and they will have their own mats - or gear to decon. crafter characters who spent a lot of time crafting gear for developing characters likely need to pick-up a hobby to help fill that soon-to-be-free time. I hear macrame is quite relaxing.

Please read what was written and not what you want to read.
Please stop telling me the changes are good for you so they are good for me as well.

Just a few points...
On your seeming must improve for everyone thingy...

No, improvements mostly do not improve the game for everyone. Best ones usually improve it for many but almost never all.Real world I know but sorry most of the time one man's upgrade is another man's last straw.

On your misrepresent of my buy/sell thing thingy with little to no info about my commerce activities...

No, sorry, the shift from utility and desirability of Crafted sets or mats in commerce buy/sell won't affect me at all. I do not have any significant time or gold or activity in the harvest equip mats for resale. I like that more players will be more self-sufficient now. For many casuals it will be a boon.

STEVIL

Rune_Relic wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Techkey1 wrote: »

Yeah I like my first idea best. Just let there be different mats at different locations rather that the same mat based off level. If I want a particular mat I should have to travel to that location to get it.

Yup. This is the way it should be done. It does not need to be as tightly banded as it was before One Tamriel. I think Skyrim is a good model for how this can, and should, be done in an Elder Scrolls MMO. Harvest nodes placed where they make sense, by location, and spread across multiple zones so that each zone has a mix of resources. Not ever resource in every zone, but spanning the entire range of resources. Some zones might be more dense in ores and less dense in plants and trees (Stonefalls) while some might be heavier in trees than ore (Shadowfen). The Rift might have different wood than Shadowfen. Eastmarch might have different ore than Stonefalls.

We have more crafting levels and associated resources than we really need in the game. It is not really necessary to have leveled items from CP1 to CP 149. Linking itemization to Champion Ranks is as much a mistake today as it was when they did it for Veteran Ranks three years ago, something that is even more obvious now that we are in One Tamriel.

Node scaling should not exist. We have too many different crafting materials. The entire crafting system, from harvest nodes to character level specific crafting, needs to be updated for Champion System and One Tamriel.

Exactly this.

At the end of the day the problem has come about for people doing 1-50, silver, gold (or not due to scaling).
They could just as easily have 1-50, silver & gold mats all available in the same location they was previously.
Everything remains where it was.
Everybody knows where to go.
Nobody has issues getting any material of any level.
Nobody has to play the RNG lottery.
Nobody has to play the buy/sell game.

Well.. just wrong.

Yeah I know, it's fine to say just let everyone else play the way I want them to and be happy... or put another way "Everything remains where it was.
Everybody knows where to go.
Nobody has issues getting any material of any level." I mean everybody CAN go out to specific locations to specially get her specific materials regardless of whether there is any other content there for them or not... it works fine for you.

It's easy.

Or if you actually want to admit that content/quests are still location locked but now level variable and from that realize that making rewards REMAIN location locked and level locked is bad for the 1T objectives.

There are plenty of ways to give crafter-harvesters the ability to gather any mat easily that don't require locking down nodes again for everyone else... plenty.

But those won't take ease of access to mats away from casuals and so don't create exploitable shortages...

Techkey1

I must admit that I really don't like or even want to craft anything now. I really enjoyed traveling to different locations getting mats and making sets for different level people and guildies, now there is no reason for doing so. I made my golden set awhile back so I have just been crafting for others which is (for a crafter) really fun. I really love the game it's just that crafting is really bland now, or shall I say I just don't see a reason to do it anymore. I have been playing since beta and paying for ESO since subscriptions started and this is the first time it just doesn't feel right, more like downgraded, like it (ESO) lost a higher level of quality. Imagine Minecraft with no crafting. That's what it feels like now.

I LOVE "THE ELDER SCROLLS", all the way back to ARENA (MORROWIND is still my favorite) but don't get me wrong, I do get that "THE ELDER SCROLLS" is free roaming and open, it's great that anyone should (and can now) be able to go anywhere, I love that part about ESO. However it must not be forgotten that this is still an MMO and many aspects of the genre MMO (RPG) are cherished by many.

I guess we'll see what happens next for ESO.

Archillius

I used to like farming different mats when I got home from work just running around when I have only 20-30min to play. This was one of my fav things to do in this game as a casual player (yeah not your normal player thing to do). This made my unlimited mat bag I have from subbing worthless to me when they made the change. I must admit this change of leveling mat nodes with your character is why I have unsubbed. Not because I don't like the game anymore but because the sub is worthless to my playing style. I don't mind mobs leveling with my toons but for the love of God leave the material nodes alone.

Stopnaggin

I think they should have left mats collecting alone. I like a lot of the changes hut not this one. I look at it like this, I would not go to an area in the real world to mine iron in an area that was known to have gold. I would not put a corn farm in the middle of the desert. This is not a game breaker for me, but it was not well thought out either. It is becoming more apperant that crafting is not a priority to ZOS. I know these changes only affect a small portion of the player base, but this change was really not needed.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

I think they should have left mats collecting alone. I like a lot of the changes hut not this one. I look at it like this, I would not go to an area in the real world to mine iron in an area that was known to have gold. I would not put a corn farm in the middle of the desert. This is not a game breaker for me, but it was not well thought out either. It is becoming more apperant that crafting is not a priority to ZOS. I know these changes only affect a small portion of the player base, but this change was really not needed. [/quote]

about the bolds

Yes it was

And

Yes it was.

Stopnaggin

Please elaborate on why these changes are necessary. Just posting yep and yep without supporting your argument for such, makes no sense. Why was it needed? Please elaborate so that I may understand your position.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Please elaborate on why these changes are necessary. Just posting yep and yep without supporting your argument for such, makes no sense. Why was it needed? Please elaborate so that I may understand your position.

Ok noting of course that your propositions that they eere not needed had no support provided, i will nonetheless support mine .

The change was needed because the whole friggin tie between character level and geography has now been removed. I know that was eaysy to miss, they really ought to have advertised it. Maybe a meno or something.

See, for the casual player they need to have resources popping up as they work thru the content. Those resources support their advancement.

With me?

In the original version of this game both the quest content/sequence level and the resources level/mats wrre all geographically determined. If you were in a zone, the quest levels and the mob overland levels and the nat nodes all aligned and usually if you ran the cintent normally, you were too.

Casual play, resources match character orogression cuz they were all zone linked.

Now, lets cut the gradual erosion and growing mismatch probkems that grew in the step by step by step slowly they turned crawl to 1T and skip right to the now.

Now, all character progression is separate from geography. There is no tie between the where and the level. So, now given that syncing resources to character need is obviously a minimally intelligent idea, given having a zone provide resources you can use is obviously goid, the NEED to also detach resource nodes from geography is just right there in front of you. Otherwise your goal of play anywhere fsils cuz some zones are not worth hanging around in cuz compared others where they can quest or play just the same but also get useful mats.

The original system worked because character progression, quest level and resources were all geo-locked. They all fit together, hand in cestus.

Now that character progression and quest levels scale everywhere, resources need to follow suit.

So, there you go.

Its a little longer than your supporting argument for why they werent needed, cuz you know you didnt apply double standard and of course supported the not needed position right off the bat before insisting others support theirs, but i can be long winded sometimes. Its part of my innate charm.

Code2501

Correct me If I am wrong, but cant we use alts locked at a specific crafting skill level to harvest low level mats? I thought the harvests were 50/50 based on your adventure level and your crafting skill level?

STEVIL

Code2501 wrote: »

Correct me If I am wrong, but cant we use alts locked at a specific crafting skill level to harvest low level mats? I thought the harvests were 50/50 based on your adventure level and your crafting skill level?

yes they are and yes you are right but not everyone who built their entire alt-setup for a radically different world scheme (pre-1T) than exists now can continue to do everything the exact same way they used to and get the exact same results they used to and so some of them want to take it away from all those who it benefits in the new world scheme cuz you know they shouldn't have to change how they do things...

I mean really, access to mats is manageable in 1T and a variety of options to get better flexibility can be added when ZOS finishes the 1T-transition for the crafted side of things, but none of those will help maintain the demand unless zone locked mats come back and that loss of demand will hit profits for those who harvest the gold from other players.

Stopnaggin

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Please elaborate on why these changes are necessary. Just posting yep and yep without supporting your argument for such, makes no sense. Why was it needed? Please elaborate so that I may understand your position.

Ok noting of course that your propositions that they eere not needed had no support provided, i will nonetheless support mine .

The change was needed because the whole friggin tie between character level and geography has now been removed. I know that was eaysy to miss, they really ought to have advertised it. Maybe a meno or something.

See, for the casual player they need to have resources popping up as they work thru the content. Those resources support their advancement.

With me?

In the original version of this game both the quest content/sequence level and the resources level/mats wrre all geographically determined. If you were in a zone, the quest levels and the mob overland levels and the nat nodes all aligned and usually if you ran the cintent normally, you were too.

Casual play, resources match character orogression cuz they were all zone linked.

Now, lets cut the gradual erosion and growing mismatch probkems that grew in the step by step by step slowly they turned crawl to 1T and skip right to the now.

Now, all character progression is separate from geography. There is no tie between the where and the level. So, now given that syncing resources to character need is obviously a minimally intelligent idea, given having a zone provide resources you can use is obviously goid, the NEED to also detach resource nodes from geography is just right there in front of you. Otherwise your goal of play anywhere fsils cuz some zones are not worth hanging around in cuz compared others where they can quest or play just the same but also get useful mats.

The original system worked because character progression, quest level and resources were all geo-locked. They all fit together, hand in cestus.

Now that character progression and quest levels scale everywhere, resources need to follow suit.

So, there you go.

Its a little longer than your supporting argument for why they werent needed, cuz you know you didnt apply double standard and of course supported the not needed position right off the bat before insisting others support theirs, but i can be long winded sometimes. Its part of my innate charm.

Ok so, other than the long winded part of your charm. Lol. My original opinion remains. Why would I harvest the same type of wood in a rainforest as I would in the mountains? How can I go hunting and shoot a bear, say a grizzly and it drops the same hide as a black bear? But now because now I am a better hunter the hide mysteriously becomes better.

I am not in complete disagreement with you on leveling and scaling being more useful, but by the same token most low level casual players are not going for master crafters. I make a lot of low level gear for people in my guild, and once those mats run out for me I can't do that.

On your other post you had some great ideas which would go along way in helping the crafting profession. But as it stands now it is broken, and not just from 1T.

On another note if removing zone restriction for mats was a good idea, which I think it was, why are dropped sets still zone locked?

IIINox

I understand where everyone is coming from. There are many good points. Personally the best compromise, in my opinion, would be to randomize all resource nodes, across all regions and add more of them. It would be more realistic for starters and would actually stimulate the games economics.

Elsonso

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Why would I harvest the same type of wood in a rainforest as I would in the mountains? How can I go hunting and shoot a bear, say a grizzly and it drops the same hide as a black bear? But now because now I am a better hunter the hide mysteriously becomes better.

It is a simple game mechanic implemented into the game with no significant concern about how it actually fits into the game. It is a short cut. Just a quick means to an end. A momentary bit of attention to a part of the game.

Taking the time to do something different, like making wolves drop different hides than wamasu, or to make certain trees grow in certain locations, is extra time, extra expense, and may not meet whatever abstract game design theory they are attempting to implement. When they can get all of that lined up, you do get a better game, but that is not the goal here. The goal is a quick answer to something they want to change in the game.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

On another note if removing zone restriction for mats was a good idea, which I think it was, why are dropped sets still zone locked?

This is why I see crafting as a secondary, and less important, part of the new ESO. They went to the trouble of locking sets to zones, and then locking what parts of the sets drop to specific types of bosses in that zone. ZOS is perfectly fine with the concept of zone locked stuff. They just did not want to apply anything like it to harvest nodes. Personally, I think that it was just too much work to align it with the goals. They want crafting to be personal, and not part of the multi-player part of the game, and for that, you just need to have the node you want at your feet at all times.

Stopnaggin

I realize that would a huge task to implement the hide part, and in actuality not really as much about hide. It was just a point, albeit an exaggerated one. I know 1T is a step in the right direction. My point was actually just about leaving certain mats to certain regions. In any world I would not expect to find oak trees in a rain forrest. The changes in mats per zone made more sense to me, even without the crafting aspect in mind.

I do realize that before 1T it really was not optimal as far as leveling was concerned. There are very few crafters in game as it is. Most new players won't bother with crafting so in the bigger picture it wouldn't have mattered to leave it the way it was. Most of the casuals I run across just ask for someone to craft for them.

Crafting is really nothing more than a side activity in eso anyway. Very few sets are as good as dropped sets. Other than alchemy and enchanting, crafting is just a means to upgrade current sets to gold.

All in all crafting is way behind, In my honest opnion, the way it is now, I wouldn't even bother leveling another crafter. But since I am nearly done with researching I will finish that toon. Some of the ideas presented here in earlier post would go a long way into making crafting a viable profession again.

As with everything, take it with a grain of salt. I will adapt, but this change has made it harder for me to gather mats that I want. On the bright side I seem to be finding tons of Columbine now.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Please elaborate on why these changes are necessary. Just posting yep and yep without supporting your argument for such, makes no sense. Why was it needed? Please elaborate so that I may understand your position.

Ok noting of course that your propositions that they eere not needed had no support provided, i will nonetheless support mine .

The change was needed because the whole friggin tie between character level and geography has now been removed. I know that was eaysy to miss, they really ought to have advertised it. Maybe a meno or something.

See, for the casual player they need to have resources popping up as they work thru the content. Those resources support their advancement.

With me?

In the original version of this game both the quest content/sequence level and the resources level/mats wrre all geographically determined. If you were in a zone, the quest levels and the mob overland levels and the nat nodes all aligned and usually if you ran the cintent normally, you were too.

Casual play, resources match character orogression cuz they were all zone linked.

Now, lets cut the gradual erosion and growing mismatch probkems that grew in the step by step by step slowly they turned crawl to 1T and skip right to the now.

Now, all character progression is separate from geography. There is no tie between the where and the level. So, now given that syncing resources to character need is obviously a minimally intelligent idea, given having a zone provide resources you can use is obviously goid, the NEED to also detach resource nodes from geography is just right there in front of you. Otherwise your goal of play anywhere fsils cuz some zones are not worth hanging around in cuz compared others where they can quest or play just the same but also get useful mats.

The original system worked because character progression, quest level and resources were all geo-locked. They all fit together, hand in cestus.

Now that character progression and quest levels scale everywhere, resources need to follow suit.

So, there you go.

Its a little longer than your supporting argument for why they werent needed, cuz you know you didnt apply double standard and of course supported the not needed position right off the bat before insisting others support theirs, but i can be long winded sometimes. Its part of my innate charm.

Ok so, other than the long winded part of your charm. Lol. My original opinion remains. Why would I harvest the same type of wood in a rainforest as I would in the mountains? How can I go hunting and shoot a bear, say a grizzly and it drops the same hide as a black bear? But now because now I am a better hunter the hide mysteriously becomes better.

I am not in complete disagreement with you on leveling and scaling being more useful, but by the same token most low level casual players are not going for master crafters. I make a lot of low level gear for people in my guild, and once those mats run out for me I can't do that.

On your other post you had some great ideas which would go along way in helping the crafting profession. But as it stands now it is broken, and not just from 1T.

On another note if removing zone restriction for mats was a good idea, which I think it was, why are dropped sets still zone locked?

First bold

See here is where we disagree somewhat. In ESO it seems to me its more likely that the terms OAK and MAPLE and BEECH are not actually descriptions of specific plants that happen to grow all across tamriel in any climate (like they did before 1T) but instead were simply convenient labels for wood types we recognize to cover "materials that share properties of X when used in crafting. As such, i never had an issue with finding "the same wood" in lotsa different climates, since i did not believe it was the same wood, just wood that is as useful.

Really, sure ESO could have went with an original design much different where the type of mat wasn't tied to level at all, just keep altering the amount of mat and then have thousands of different names for each branch dropped in different areas and have each take up different inventory slots but that would not have been a better game, just more cumbersome.

BUT, to the actual affecting play part about casuals, second bold, the net change in 1T doesn't say anything about casuals becoming master crafters, but the net change is that casual will have much more access to the resources they need, whether they do the crafting themselves or not. Casual drops of mats and gear for decon, casual harvesting while they play and the abundance of drop-sets constantly scaling to their levels as they progress means the demand for crafted sets for the casual player is becoming less now than it has ever been and when they do choose to get them by solicited crafting they will have a much greater chance of having their own mats to provide. The timing is different for some of the options but the respource flow is now keyed to the characters in play and not keyed to geography totally divorced from the numbers of characters in play. Thats a good thing.

Third bold
Broken is a useless term as it keeps getting thrown in for "something i dont prefer as much as i did" and " something thats not quite as good" and for "something that fails to work at all" and those are all completely different things. i would argue most strongly that while equipment crafting is currently at a less than optimal state that fails to live up to the original crafting vs drop intent (and needs its 1t makeover like drop sets got) the actual gripe being pushed here (scaled nodes not good, zone locked mats good) is the one part where it was improved. Broken, not hardly. unfinished, yep. meanwhile, the consumable crafting is doing just fine IMO.

Fourth bold
Drops sets are not actually zone locked in the sense that say mats being zone locked are being discussed.

if i am cp160+ i find cp160 drop sets in every single zone. i find a "stamina" set, a "magica" set and a "health set" in every single zone at my cp160 gear cap level. Just like i find cp150-160 ruby ash and rubedite and ancestral silk and lorkhal tears and the tier 10 potencies (if i have the relevant skills.)

If i decon those sets, i get the same results except for a nod to style tokens.

However, sets have an additional level of detail that the basic "material type" doesn't include. That level of detail includes style (served by a different token), traits (served by different tokens) and set-bonuses. None of those are tied to the "material" used. material used is level only.

The folks worrying over scaled nodes and the harvesting for profit impacts are not talking about style or traits, but about levels. haven't seen one yet fretting over how much the economy will suffer if they cant harvest moonstone now.

So, as far as the issue of resources are concerned, drop sets are not zone locked and have just the one difference of not being 50/50 but always at character level. That serves the casual player very well. They also come in all the various traits.

They do differ though in that area that has nothing to do with MATS which is the set bonuses vary, though again each zone iirc has one of each "flavor" only with differing particulars.

Would the game be better served if all the sets had no such difference, if like mahogony the drop set always gave the same bonuses no matter where it was dropped from? i dont think so. That would be rather dull.

Would the game be better if every drop set everywhere was possible to drop every set so there was no real rhyme or reason to what you get? No, i dont think so cuz it would take forever to get any 5pc set. At least now i can select where to go to get the drop down to three sets rotating. its a trade-off i guess, maybe it would be better at 5 sets per zone with some overlap or maybe at 2 but 3 so far to me seems to be working just fine and it does provide that balance of flavors.

So, its a different thing altogether from zone locking mat levels and while its current three-set per zone may not be the best, so far it seems to be working just fine.

OH and i do realize that at least one "zone" is set locked - the starter islands all have the TRAINEE set only. i guess this is kind of like the first alternative i mention above - every zone same bonuses.

Anyway, long again but hey i still stand by my position that the move to scaled nodes and the 1T drop-set overhaul are **great** for the game as a whole and that right now the equipment crafting needs its share of a 1T upgrade to restore its relevance to where it should be **given** the skill point investment and the general position on drop-v-crafted we have seen in ESO in the past and the comparison of the importance of crafted-v-drops for consumables vs the same for equipment.


My suggestion for upgrading equip crafting to match 1t drop upgrades is summarized by the following:

Equipment crafting needs the same kind of 1T upgrade that drop sets got.

To include some or all of:

• Ability to craft jewels for the sets even if quality limited to purple. (All drops have jewel options)
• Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
• Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)
• Writs to ask for ONE item with a specific trait and style, but allow more items if you dont have trait/style. (cost effective change spreads resource cost over item types.)
• Ability to change one of a set 2-3-4 pc bonus for another bonus of the same 2-3-4 pc type at time of crafting. (Allows for greater versatility without inventing new sets a plenty. Also can help some lesser sets.)
• Drop the 10x mats cost for CP160 over Cp150. (CP 160 drops everywhere now... its no longer s special threshold thing anymore. if you are cp160 every drop set is cp 160 not nine 150 and one 160. So the need for cp160 crafting to be 10x is no longer relevant.)

Not all of these my own but i think they go a long way for forming a comprehensive 1T upgrade/rebalance of equip crafted.

One other idea i am mulling over - for equip writs have the writ ask for a piece-style and trait but allow the use to make it at ANY tier they want. then have the 25pc box of mats MATCH that tier if no survey comes up. that provides a fairly reliable way to get mats at whatever tier you want if you only have a few.

I am not a fan of just chasing the same dragon by trying to fix it by adding some more pre-defined sets here and there.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

I realize that would a huge task to implement the hide part, and in actuality not really as much about hide. It was just a point, albeit an exaggerated one. I know 1T is a step in the right direction. My point was actually just about leaving certain mats to certain regions. In any world I would not expect to find oak trees in a rain forrest. The changes in mats per zone made more sense to me, even without the crafting aspect in mind.

I do realize that before 1T it really was not optimal as far as leveling was concerned. There are very few crafters in game as it is. Most new players won't bother with crafting so in the bigger picture it wouldn't have mattered to leave it the way it was. Most of the casuals I run across just ask for someone to craft for them.

Crafting is really nothing more than a side activity in eso anyway. Very few sets are as good as dropped sets. Other than alchemy and enchanting, crafting is just a means to upgrade current sets to gold.

All in all crafting is way behind, In my honest opnion, the way it is now, I wouldn't even bother leveling another crafter. But since I am nearly done with researching I will finish that toon. Some of the ideas presented here in earlier post would go a long way into making crafting a viable profession again.

As with everything, take it with a grain of salt. I will adapt, but this change has made it harder for me to gather mats that I want. On the bright side I seem to be finding tons of Columbine now.

Bold

you do realize that before 1T the whether you found oak in an area or other wood was determined by... what was it... oh yeah... your alliance?

what was it that determined whether or not you found iron or other types of ore in a zone like voidstone... oh yeah alliance.

Can you point to one thread or one post where, when they made the type of mat ALLIANCE BASED, you complained about the lack of leaving certain mats in certain regions and instead having types of mats determined by character and varying for each character as they go thru depdning on that character traits and oak in rain forest?

or did the feeling of "oak in rain forest" dissatisfaction just now crop up coincidentally and totally unrelated to the game mechanic impact on some player's ability to harvest gold off other character due to the reduction in demand for mats harvested by other in 1T?

Equipment resource nodes became "synced to character traits" when vet ranks came into play. Was this a problem you brought up for changes to be made after that or does your sensitivity to oak in rain forests issues vary with the impact to your game mechanics and procurement?

the difference now is, the "character traits" being synced to are the ones directly involved in crafting demand - skill and character level instead of the hopeful and imprecise "alliance zone" thing.

me?

Since i see the labels on mats as just labels, not actual species IDs, I never cared about what names were. When i find water hycinth in alikir, i doubt its the exact same plant as i find seaside in gelnumbra, just one with similar properties.

See, i can understand the "but i cant harvest the gold the same way" guys. i agree completely that there needs to be a nod to that by dropping the lower mat cap on mats for equip crafting. Failing that, if they really ewant to accomplish the same thing but spend ten times the code and such, allow a drop-down to let a crafter dial his "apparent skill" to anything he has or lower and even allow him to allow a similar toggle for his "apparent character level" but only for harvest/drops, not for combat scaling.

But zone locked level mats is a horrible idea for a free travel game where there is no link even implied between character level and zone they are in... it would only serve to create shortages for the casual players and reduce their self-sufficiency even more.

But i dont get the "oak in rain forest" suddenly now being a problem when we have had "character trait nodes" since vet levels.

Stopnaggin

Neither was I, the impact on the nodes will subside eventually, this I agree. The suggestions from your other post would go a long way into making crafting a viable profession again. We will all have to wait and see what the plan going forward will be.

Your take on wood being wood is fine with one exception, those crafting materials have specific levels in which they can be used. Agan your suggestions would fix that issue. We are not too far off in wanting the same result, our how is the difference.

Lumsdenml

Really, not sure what the big issue is. All you need to do now is have the toon who the armor is for farm the mats...

Stopnaggin

Because if I was just crafting for myself that would be fine. But when a new or casual asks for something I have to either make an alt and level it to what they want or have them farm their own mats. Which most casuals do not want to do. I create tons of stuff for low levels in my guilds and I will soon run out of mats to do so.

Now in the bigger picture, I will potentially lose money, although not much as I don't charge as much as accept tips, people will come to me because I have what they need, no hastle.

I have spent a lot of time becoming a crafter, and a lot of gold. Now this will make it difficult to be profitable. My master crafter has all the perks to gather and decon, where as my low level does not, which takes longer to get said lower materials. Time spent researching, riding skill, armor set for speed bonus, money tied up in motifs. All of this to be a crafter. Like it or not, it is turning into a wasted effort, unless they fix it. I know it does not affect everyone, and never said it broke the game. It has just made it more difficult to enjoy the part of the game I enjoy.

On the other hand I will hold to my opinion and see if the can fix it. Getting low lvl mats from writs isn't exactly great, now I have to rely on rng. Not exactly a reliable source for lower level mats. If have to start purchasing them, I would have to start charging to craft. So there is a trickle down effect. It may not be a big deal to some as it is to others.

ChandraNalaar

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Have they added the mats to the blacksmith/ clothier / woodworker NPC's ?

Not that I'm aware of; I wouldn't necessarily mind it, but it would probably be really expensive just like buying recipes from them.

ChandraNalaar

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

So for those without orsinium, will the highest writs for us still requiere void materials despite there will be no possible way to farm it anymore?

No; you can do max tier writs and drop them off in Craglorn. They also won't drop any more surveys for Wrothgar if you don't own the DLC, which was a smart move on Zos' part.

ChandraNalaar

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Pro tip for everyone who needs to craft for an low level alt:
1. Take your low level char and steal armor/weapons of the type you want to craft
2. Launder the stolen gear for low gold costs
3. Deconstruct it and get the normal amount of materials

A good spot is the area around the way shrine in eldenroot and the fighters guild in elden root. It will take less than 10 mins to get enough mats for crafting a full set.

This will work as long as you craft for yourself. If you craft for anyone else he/she has to use this method to collect the materials.

You can just steal it and decon it immediately, no need to launder. Once you decon something stolen, it's no longer stolen because you have mats now instead of a stolen item.

ChandraNalaar

IIINox wrote: »

I understand where everyone is coming from. There are many good points. Personally the best compromise, in my opinion, would be to randomize all resource nodes, across all regions and add more of them. It would be more realistic for starters and would actually stimulate the games economics.

Eh, I would prefer specific zones for mats over completely randomized nodes. I wouldn't mind a little more intelligent node placement, like specific hides dropping off of a specific mob, but I'm fine with the current system of harvesting for the most part. I have max rank toons so not getting low level mats isn't detrimental to me on a gameplay level, but rather an economic level. I used to like farming lowbie zones for some extra mats to sell.

STEVIL

ChandraNalaar wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Have they added the mats to the blacksmith/ clothier / woodworker NPC's ?

Not that I'm aware of; I wouldn't necessarily mind it, but it would probably be really expensive just like buying recipes from them.

Not necessarily.

You choose to compare it to onr time use the crsft forever recipes.

I would compare it to POTENCIES. You know, potencies, the leveling elrment for enchanting. WHen they added them to the stores just a few dlc ago,they did it cheap. I think tier 1 is 30g.

STEVIL

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Because if I was just crafting for myself that would be fine. But when a new or casual asks for something I have to either make an alt and level it to what they want or have them farm their own mats. Which most casuals do not want to do. I create tons of stuff for low levels in my guilds and I will soon run out of mats to do so.

Now in the bigger picture, I will potentially lose money, although not much as I don't charge as much as accept tips, people will come to me because I have what they need, no hastle.

I have spent a lot of time becoming a crafter, and a lot of gold. Now this will make it difficult to be profitable. My master crafter has all the perks to gather and decon, where as my low level does not, which takes longer to get said lower materials. Time spent researching, riding skill, armor set for speed bonus, money tied up in motifs. All of this to be a crafter. Like it or not, it is turning into a wasted effort, unless they fix it. I know it does not affect everyone, and never said it broke the game. It has just made it more difficult to enjoy the part of the game I enjoy.

On the other hand I will hold to my opinion and see if the can fix it. Getting low lvl mats from writs isn't exactly great, now I have to rely on rng. Not exactly a reliable source for lower level mats. If have to start purchasing them, I would have to start charging to craft. So there is a trickle down effect. It may not be a big deal to some as it is to others.

Ok, so, i am assuming you are not an idiot. Stop tresting us like we are, plesse

As such you know that you wont be creating an alt when a casual asks you for gear, right?

IF you see there is demand for crafter-provided-mats for lower tier worth your time, you being not an idiot, will either do s quick respec which might be cheap if you have a single alt who has just enough pts to max desired crafts. You will use that character to run surveys or to go harvest a lot at once for the tiers you see worth having and maintain a large stockpile. Settimg the char to whatever your lower tier lowest is lets the deliveries feedbthe lowrr end. Meanwhile, the other chars harvest top tier or whatever their skill is.

Its not your ability to acquire mats that gonna seriously impact your sbility to harvest gold of others as a redult of 1T changes. It is that those casuals will have farbless need of you to crsft for them and when they do they will have more mats of their own.

Thats why the beef-n-fix pairing most frequently offered by "dedicated crafters" is "i cant get mats"-n-"take scaled nodes away from others"

STEVIL

By the way, as a point of disclosure:
i sell mats at vendor stores. Just in the last week-ish i made over a quarter mil off alchemy mats alone.
i do craft for others, but i usually dont charge for that tho if they want quality above green/blue (if i have them in abundance) and then they can either provide tokens or find someone else. i usually do not take mats for equip crafting.

The 1T changes will reduce the demand for crafted sets and i think that is fine... I just dont like that crafted sets are so second fiddle to drop sets now and so i want the crafted to get a good 1T overhaul, but not in a way that will take away resource node usefulness from the casuals.

See, i dont object to commerce, to crafted-v-drop prioritizing, etc just to getting a rule changed to create shortages for others and make their casual play not as sustainable.

I never saw the "worth it" for my equip crafted stemming from or hinged on "gold i get from others" but rather from "benefit i get over drops" just like i see it for my consumables crafting. But right now, until the equip crafted gets its 1T upgrade to match the drops, i am not as happy as i was and patiently waiting for the second half of the 1T set upgrade plan to kick in by say u14.

Elsonso

STEVIL wrote: »

My suggestion for upgrading equip crafting to match 1t drop upgrades is summarized by the following:

Equipment crafting needs the same kind of 1T upgrade that drop sets got.

To include some or all of:

• Ability to craft jewels for the sets even if quality limited to purple. (All drops have jewel options)
• Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
• Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)
• Writs to ask for ONE item with a specific trait and style, but allow more items if you dont have trait/style. (cost effective change spreads resource cost over item types.)
• Ability to change one of a set 2-3-4 pc bonus for another bonus of the same 2-3-4 pc type at time of crafting. (Allows for greater versatility without inventing new sets a plenty. Also can help some lesser sets.)
• Drop the 10x mats cost for CP160 over Cp150. (CP 160 drops everywhere now... its no longer s special threshold thing anymore. if you are cp160 every drop set is cp 160 not nine 150 and one 160. So the need for cp160 crafting to be 10x is no longer relevant.)

Not all of these my own but i think they go a long way for forming a comprehensive 1T upgrade/rebalance of equip crafted.

One other idea i am mulling over - for equip writs have the writ ask for a piece-style and trait but allow the use to make it at ANY tier they want. then have the 25pc box of mats MATCH that tier if no survey comes up. that provides a fairly reliable way to get mats at whatever tier you want if you only have a few.

I am not a fan of just chasing the same dragon by trying to fix it by adding some more pre-defined sets here and there.

There is a really elegant-looking way to revamp Enchanting, tie in with Spell Crafting, remove character levels from gear, update the crafted sets (and remove the need to travel to some location to make them), and make crafting something that really adds value to the gear, new players and old. Because it is not character level dependent, the need to upgrade comes from the need for gear that better aids the character, not because the character has leveled up. Also because of no gear levels, it gets rid of the tiered level-dependent materials and allows raw materials to become input to the crafting process in order to get the various properties that are desired, not the level desired.

But, that sort of thing can get expensive, when developed to conclusion. As you have mentioned, and most of us already know, ZOS is not going to do anything elaborate or expensive with crafting. I am sure they welcome suggestions on how to strategically place the band-aid on the current system, though.

For this reason, I quote you. Nothing really objectionable in your band-aid placement.

Ir0nB34r

If you are upset about not being able to readily outfit your guild members, just have them collect the materials for you. That works pretty perfectly for my Guild.

STEVIL

lordrichter wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

My suggestion for upgrading equip crafting to match 1t drop upgrades is summarized by the following:

Equipment crafting needs the same kind of 1T upgrade that drop sets got.

To include some or all of:

• Ability to craft jewels for the sets even if quality limited to purple. (All drops have jewel options)
• Ability to up-scale pieces to higher level keeping quality. (new drops scale to you)
• Ability to craft lower gear with higher mat, losing the lower cap on met levels. (Fits with scaled nodes)
• Writs to ask for ONE item with a specific trait and style, but allow more items if you dont have trait/style. (cost effective change spreads resource cost over item types.)
• Ability to change one of a set 2-3-4 pc bonus for another bonus of the same 2-3-4 pc type at time of crafting. (Allows for greater versatility without inventing new sets a plenty. Also can help some lesser sets.)
• Drop the 10x mats cost for CP160 over Cp150. (CP 160 drops everywhere now... its no longer s special threshold thing anymore. if you are cp160 every drop set is cp 160 not nine 150 and one 160. So the need for cp160 crafting to be 10x is no longer relevant.)

Not all of these my own but i think they go a long way for forming a comprehensive 1T upgrade/rebalance of equip crafted.

One other idea i am mulling over - for equip writs have the writ ask for a piece-style and trait but allow the use to make it at ANY tier they want. then have the 25pc box of mats MATCH that tier if no survey comes up. that provides a fairly reliable way to get mats at whatever tier you want if you only have a few.

I am not a fan of just chasing the same dragon by trying to fix it by adding some more pre-defined sets here and there.

There is a really elegant-looking way to revamp Enchanting, tie in with Spell Crafting, remove character levels from gear, update the crafted sets (and remove the need to travel to some location to make them), and make crafting something that really adds value to the gear, new players and old. Because it is not character level dependent, the need to upgrade comes from the need for gear that better aids the character, not because the character has leveled up. Also because of no gear levels, it gets rid of the tiered level-dependent materials and allows raw materials to become input to the crafting process in order to get the various properties that are desired, not the level desired.

But, that sort of thing can get expensive, when developed to conclusion. As you have mentioned, and most of us already know, ZOS is not going to do anything elaborate or expensive with crafting. I am sure they welcome suggestions on how to strategically place the band-aid on the current system, though.

For this reason, I quote you. Nothing really objectionable in your band-aid placement.

I am sure there are plenty of ways anything in the game could have been built in totally different ways had that been a direction they chose to do.

Just like I am sure there are plenty of people who not being the ones doing the work and not paying the bills and keeping the lights on who can toss out left handed mentions saddled with diminutive terms like band aid.

Practical people seek to identify the real necessities, the areas where things can improve, find manageable, cost-effective solutions with minimal risk and try to get thrm added to thr game.

I mean, i am sure that this other elegant system you pine for is in use in many many games, that is, if it is as wonderful in fact as it is in your fertile conjurgasms.

Or then again...


Edit
Forgot the smiley proofing so here it is.