So they did it, they screwed up crafting material collecting

Integral1900

I really didn't see the problem. I'm levelling up a new alt, a bouncing baby nightblade, and she is knee deep in levelled mats. Just break down all the junk and watch the loot level rise. I've never once sent my master crafter, the one with all the bells and whistles, out to do what the alt should be doing in the first place. It would be like saying to the emperor of aincent Rome, "right, we are going to make you a new throne my lord..... errr, by the way, here is the axe and the forest is a few miles that way...."

Hluill

STEVIL wrote: »

Liike always happens when a change is made with an update, some "how i did things yesterday" change and new "how i do things now" come to the forefront as players adapt to the living, evolving MMO.

Happens every time.

I disagree with your suggestion because I usually do crafted sets, even for my lowbies. The disparity among levels gets even more dramatic as my characters level. Twenty Champion Points makes a significant difference in gear sets. Not having the materials for an updated set can feel pretty crippling.

Basically you're just saying to slow down gear-update intervals, don't take advantage of better gear for the characters' level... In a round-about way you're supporting my point that our crafters don't have reliable sources for materials. Where we disagree is whether this is noteworthy or not.

I went though a lot of trouble to make a master crafter. Now that character is even more trouble and less enjoyable. Is it a gamebreaker? Nah, the crafting in this game is a tertiary system anyway. Is it a pain in the ass? Yep, in a long list of ones that already exist in this game's crafting system.

STEVIL

Hluill wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Liike always happens when a change is made with an update, some "how i did things yesterday" change and new "how i do things now" come to the forefront as players adapt to the living, evolving MMO.

Happens every time.

I disagree with your suggestion because I usually do crafted sets, even for my lowbies. The disparity among levels gets even more dramatic as my characters level. Twenty Champion Points makes a significant difference in gear sets. Not having the materials for an updated set can feel pretty crippling.

Basically you're just saying to slow down gear-update intervals, don't take advantage of better gear for the characters' level... In a round-about way you're supporting my point that our crafters don't have reliable sources for materials. Where we disagree is whether this is noteworthy or not.

I went though a lot of trouble to make a master crafter. Now that character is even more trouble and less enjoyable. Is it a gamebreaker? Nah, the crafting in this game is a tertiary system anyway. Is it a pain in the ass? Yep, in a long list of ones that already exist in this game's crafting system.

Well itvtook me as l9ng

Hluill wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Liike always happens when a change is made with an update, some "how i did things yesterday" change and new "how i do things now" come to the forefront as players adapt to the living, evolving MMO.

Happens every time.

I disagree with your suggestion because I usually do crafted sets, even for my lowbies. The disparity among levels gets even more dramatic as my characters level. Twenty Champion Points makes a significant difference in gear sets. Not having the materials for an updated set can feel pretty crippling.

Basically you're just saying to slow down gear-update intervals, don't take advantage of better gear for the characters' level... In a round-about way you're supporting my point that our crafters don't have reliable sources for materials. Where we disagree is whether this is noteworthy or not.

I went though a lot of trouble to make a master crafter. Now that character is even more trouble and less enjoyable. Is it a gamebreaker? Nah, the crafting in this game is a tertiary system anyway. Is it a pain in the ass? Yep, in a long list of ones that already exist in this game's crafting system.

until recent changes i used to do crafted sets for my developing characters too. basically as a tier kicked in craft new sets for everybody and play those thru the next tier, unless i changed my mind etc. it was very efficient and served eight characters (ten actually very well.

Right before they added four new character slots, i had purged my inventories of "clutter" - basically got rid of all my lower level mats i did not need.

Then in whatever order we got four new slots and we got craft bags. I had the iron/maple/jute because non-crafters found those 50/50 in the scaled DLC my cappers ran.

That drove me to adopt the change to craft early iron/jute/maple sets then re-craft not as soon as they hit the new tier but at the end, maxed the first tier using the mats they harvested along in play. one character has already gone from 3-50 using that model as my 9th (11th) capper. Another is in the second tier, others on the way.

This model works just fine in 1T as well.

i have not seen any significant problems because of wearing gear 2 levels down from the "old way" even with the newe scaled content.

So, again, to me it seems a change, a difference but by no means even close to the most significant change i have seen in my play following major updates.

It is also far far far outweighed by the other changes - all mats scaling to the character needs, drop-sets as you go along scaled to you current level WITH JEWELRY. being able to RELIABLY acquire scaled jewelry sets as you level - thats far more significant power-wise to my developing characters now than the "my gear is 14 not 16" especially as over time i figure i will be folding in the drop-sets at the higher levels.

For example, by the time my 18 is nearing 24 when i would look to re-craft, my bet is at least half the gear will be drop-sets (including 3 jewels) in the 16-23 level ranges.

So i wont be crafting a full new set of 9-11 pieces at 24. i figure maybe 5-7 at most and maybe not even that much - even though i will have plenty of mats by then.

but hey, new things bring on new challenges and new opportunities for those who look for them.

Someone once told me you find what you look for - because in every opportunity you can find a problem but also in every problem you can find an opportunity.

ericsparrow

How about this? On the Character screen just above the new equipment level there is a space, fill that space with a new drop down box. The box is called "Resource Collection" ( or something like that ) and the drop down contains the options Local and World.

Local. Collection works as it does now in One Tamriel.
World. Collection works as it did prior to One Tamriel. The Nodes and Mobs drop things as per the zone they are in. Independent of the characters crafting levels.

Toggle it on and off as you wish depending on your need at the time, everyone's happy everyone wins.

Enslaved

It would be great if we could have a way to get crafting materials we want in other way but having multiple characters on different level of skill.

Now, there is split chance of finding materials based on skill level and CP level. Maybe if it was 3 way split so we could find "old" materials tied to a zone, that would help a lot.
Or, they could add a in game craftable token or something that lasts for 1-2h and alows one to find that tier of crafting materials that token lvl was. Maybe that would be complicated to implement, but even a option in the menu that gives oneself a chance to select what type of material he would like to find in a certain zone would help. And to "spice" it up, that might be an option accessible only to ppl who mastered at least one crafting skill or something.

STEVIL

ericsparrow wrote: »

How about this? On the Character screen just above the new equipment level there is a space, fill that space with a new drop down box. The box is called "Resource Collection" ( or something like that ) and the drop down contains the options Local and World.

Local. Collection works as it does now in One Tamriel.
World. Collection works as it did prior to One Tamriel. The Nodes and Mobs drop things as per the zone they are in. Independent of the characters crafting levels.

Toggle it on and off as you wish depending on your need at the time, everyone's happy everyone wins.

Actually, not really, because if every character gets every drop-node-gear scaled to their current level AND drop-sets flow from casual questing and overland play like they currently are (with jewelry) then the DEMAND for purchased mats will drop significantly and the money to be made off them will drop - even if prices do not themselves drop the purchases will.

But, sure, i am with you.

If master crafters want some way to enable them to set their nodes to something other than their character level or their crafting level, let them have it... as long as it isn't also inflicting that back on everybody else.

Now, for me, it seems silly. I support adding any mat be used to craft any level lower than it currently is - remove the lower cap on mat-level. That way, as a top-tier guy, i dont have to toggle this or that, maintain 40 different mat types, etc. it seems to provide the same flexibility without the complications.

Instead of adding a toggle for node-drop scaling, add one to crafting to let you set the tier for level and appearance and then use any mat that level or higher for the crafting.

Same result, less paperwork.

Cherryblossom

You have two options;

one you have one toon for harvesting, who changes his crafting level dependant on the material you require.

The toon that you wish to make armour for decons everything he finds for mats.

Krainor1974

They need to give an option as you farm a item that allows you to take a scaled item or the normal item for that map.

STEVIL

Krainor1974 wrote: »

They need to give an option as you farm a item that allows you to take a scaled item or the normal item for that map.

Why that instead of allowing you to use higher tier stuff for lower tier gear and so harvest just the higher tier?

How is the "collect all 40 mats" better than "collect 4 universally useful mats"?

Krainor1974

STEVIL wrote: »

Krainor1974 wrote: »

They need to give an option as you farm a item that allows you to take a scaled item or the normal item for that map.

Why that instead of allowing you to use higher tier stuff for lower tier gear and so harvest just the higher tier?

How is the "collect all 40 mats" better than "collect 4 universally useful mats"?

Either way but I don't think they would just use one type of material for all crafting, they could of did that from start and didn't.

Elsonso

STEVIL wrote: »

OLD WAY: As soon as someone reaches new tier, craft gear for them at the new tier. So at lvl 16 get them level 16 crafted gear.

NEW WAY: As someone reaches the end of a tier, use the mats they harvested in casual play all along that tier to craft them new gear for the top of tier. So at lvl 14 i craft level 14 gear for them. That level 14 gear and the now upcoming drop-sets serve them thru the next tier. as they gather mats for regear at end of that one, etc etc. (Problem was the mats gathered and deconned as you go thru the level were basically wasted unless you had other chars coming up or others to craft for.)

Sorry for replying to this. Your "NEW WAY" is what I have pretty much always done in the game, in that I always make armor in advance of the need.

With One Tamriel, this pretty much becomes required as you can't even get the materials until you need then. Before One Tamriel, it was possible to acquire in advance of the need.

Adaptation is nice, but at some point you have to wonder whether this is all just a meta game to them. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

Krainor1974 wrote: »

They need to give an option as you farm a item that allows you to take a scaled item or the normal item for that map.

Well, we had that in the form of zone-specific materials. They could use location specific materials where you just go where the materials are and get what you want. Certain areas have a higher concentration of certain materials than other areas, and you go there if you want those materials. It does not have to be arranged by zone or level. We can travel to all of the Known Tamriel now. We can go to it, where ever it is. It does not have to be delivered to us.

There is really no reason why resources need to be "randomly" placed around the world. They are doing it that way so that you are always coming across a little node of this or that whenever you venture out. It gives something for wolves to guard. It is much more work to do it such that location made sense, which is why they do not entertain such ideas.

I see it this way. By doing it this way, people don't have to run around looking for materials. Crafting is not a reason to play the game, it is just something that happens while you are questing or farming sets. This frees up the player to just quest and dungeon crawl, which I figure are the two things, after buying stuff from the Crown Store, that they are interested in promoting.

Any overhaul of the crafting system needs to be extensive, at this point. Band-aids will not cure it. As long as they repeat past mistakes, crafting will become more and more of a shambles. As long as they keep it secondary, they don't have to address it. They can safely ignore it and hope that people just use the dropped sets and do nothing more than just level crafting because it is there.

Edit to remove diversion

Hluill

STEVIL wrote: »

I have not seen any significant problems because of wearing gear 2 levels down from the "old way" even with the newer scaled content.

Boy, have I seen a difference! My drop in damage for just just twenty Champion points is measured in the hundreds. What's funny is that I am not a meta gamer, yet the drop in damage is significant enough for a casual like me to notice. Mobs that I could kill in three of four attacks before One Tamerial now require twice that. Not having up to date gear makes an even bigger difference.

STEVIL wrote: »

So, again, to me it seems a change, a difference but by no means even close to the most significant change i have seen in my play following major updates.

It is also far far far outweighed by the other changes - all mats scaling to the character needs, drop-sets as you go along scaled to you current level WITH JEWELRY. being able to RELIABLY acquire scaled jewelry sets as you level - thats far more significant power-wise to my developing characters now than the "my gear is 14 not 16" especially as over time i figure i will be folding in the drop-sets at the higher levels.

For example, by the time my 18 is nearing 24 when i would look to re-craft, my bet is at least half the gear will be drop-sets (including 3 jewels) in the 16-23 level ranges.

First, don't even get me started on these dropped sets. They are rare drops for me, and I have yet to see a complete set. My crafter migrates to one of the [sarcasm]accessable[/sarcasm off] crafting-set locations. It's hard to even find more than three of a set hitting several of the traders. Jewelry is a HUGE issue. Because my characters are wearing sets of five and three or four, I typically only replace part of my gear set at a time.

STEVIL wrote: »

So i wont be crafting a full new set of 9-11 pieces at 24. i figure maybe 5-7 at most and maybe not even that much - even though i will have plenty of mats by then.

but hey, new things bring on new challenges and new opportunities for those who look for them.

Someone once told me you find what you look for - because in every opportunity you can find a problem but also in every problem you can find an opportunity.

So your advice is to adapt to change... May as well tell to me get wet when I swim. And at no time are you actually disagreeing with points being made here. In fact, you're basically saying that the new gathering system makes it impossible to gear your characters well.

Hluill

lordrichter wrote: »

Well, we had that in the form of zone-specific materials. They could use location specific materials where you just go where the materials are and get what you want. Certain areas have a higher concentration of certain materials than other areas, and you go there if you want those materials. It does not have to be arranged by zone or level. We can travel to all of the Known Tamriel now. We can go to it, where ever it is. It does not have to be delivered to us.

There is really no reason why resources need to be "randomly" placed around the world. They are doing it that way so that you are always coming across a little node of this or that whenever you venture out. It gives something for wolves to guard. It is much more work to do it such that location made sense, which is why they do not entertain such ideas.

I see it this way. By doing it this way, people don't have to run around looking for materials. Crafting is not a reason to play the game, it is just something that happens while you are questing or farming sets. This frees up the player to just quest and dungeon crawl, which I figure are the two things, after buying stuff from the Crown Store, that they are interested in promoting.

Any overhaul of the crafting system needs to be extensive, at this point. Band-aids will not cure it. As long as they repeat past mistakes, crafting will become more and more of a shambles. As long as they keep it secondary, they don't have to address it. They can safely ignore it and hope that people just use the dropped sets and do nothing more than just level crafting because it is there.

Edit to remove diversion

Amen brother!

STEVIL

@lordrichter
"Adaptation is nice, but at some point you have to wonder whether this is all just a meta game to them. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

No, actually you don't. if there were no obvious reasons for a change then maybe that question is valid. But the obvious sweeping changes scaled nodes, sets drops provide for the majority of players across a 1T world should make it apparent that while some players will need to adapt the way they do some things, its not just an arbitrary or whimsical screw with mortals kind of thing.

@Hluill
"And at no time are you actually disagreeing with points being made here. In fact, you're basically saying that the new gathering system makes it impossible to gear your characters well."

uhhh... basically no not even close to what i said. I wonder if you read it or what part of it you took as me saying crafting well is impossible to do. Even with my example, during the progression thru a tier you are acquiring drop-sets at the current tier and are gathering mats at the current tier so while it may not happen at the exact same time or the exact same way as it did before the change... it can still happen IF IF IF IF the player chooses options to let it happen.

"impossible" or even "close to impossible" in this game comes out of restrictions the player imposes much more than the ones the game world imposes.

Whatever choices you make to avoid getting drop sets, thats on you. For me my inventories are filling up. i already have one character with one 5pc crafted, one 5pc pc and a 2pc both non-crafted. it performs better than it did prior even without all the pieces being optimized. Another has a 5pc, 4pc, 2pc all non-crafted and again, better than before.

So, all in all, i think you are using that word "impossible" incorrectly.

STEVIL

Krainor1974 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Krainor1974 wrote: »

They need to give an option as you farm a item that allows you to take a scaled item or the normal item for that map.

Why that instead of allowing you to use higher tier stuff for lower tier gear and so harvest just the higher tier?

How is the "collect all 40 mats" better than "collect 4 universally useful mats"?

Either way but I don't think they would just use one type of material for all crafting, they could of did that from start and didn't.

Really?

You are aware that recently they took enchanting potencies and removed the upper cap for each potency allowing any potency to be used to make a glyph usable on higher tier items even though from the get go glyphs had an upper and lower limit?

I am proposing they remove the lower tier on mats-gear levels... much the same... not actually removing the other mats which would play a role while characters develop but adding flexibility to the higher end crafters.

I am basing most of my proposals on stuff they have done... that just need to be extended IMO to equip crafting.

Hluill

STEVIL wrote: »

@lordrichter
"Adaptation is nice, but at some point you have to wonder whether this is all just a meta game to them. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

No, actually you don't. if there were no obvious reasons for a change then maybe that question is valid. But the obvious sweeping changes scaled nodes, sets drops provide for the majority of players across a 1T world should make it apparent that while some players will need to adapt the way they do some things, its not just an arbitrary or whimsical screw with mortals kind of thing.

Wow, you really missed the point of that quote.

STEVIL wrote: »

@Hluill
"And at no time are you actually disagreeing with points being made here. In fact, you're basically saying that the new gathering system makes it impossible to gear your characters well."

uhhh... basically no not even close to what i said. I wonder if you read it or what part of it you took as me saying crafting well is impossible to do. Even with my example, during the progression thru a tier you are acquiring drop-sets at the current tier and are gathering mats at the current tier so while it may not happen at the exact same time or the exact same way as it did before the change... it can still happen IF IF IF IF the player chooses options to let it happen.

"impossible" or even "close to impossible" in this game comes out of restrictions the player imposes much more than the ones the game world imposes.

Whatever choices you make to avoid getting drop sets, thats on you. For me my inventories are filling up. i already have one character with one 5pc crafted, one 5pc pc and a 2pc both non-crafted. it performs better than it did prior even without all the pieces being optimized. Another has a 5pc, 4pc, 2pc all non-crafted and again, better than before.

So, all in all, i think you are using that word "impossible" incorrectly.

Wow, um, I never wrote that "crafting well" is impossible. I wrote that it has become a lot more challenging. You wrote that in order to adapt to the change: don't try to update gear until the end of the tier.: You wrote:"That drove me to adopt the change to craft early iron/jute/maple sets then re-craft not as soon as they hit the new tier but at the end, maxed the first tier using the mats they harvested along in play". We are both saying that tiers of materials are harder to gather, thus making keeping our characters geared for the level harder. It's a simple point.

Not sure what you mean by choices that keep me from looting dropped sets. I am questing and exploring and gathering and dungeoning. In an hour I may see one piece of set (with stats I have no interest in). In the last few days I may have seen six items from sets, maybe more, but none of them had stats that would be an upgrade to my crafted sets. Even on Traders, I have only seen one set of three, one, that would be any use to my character. I ain't doin' rocket science, I just have, well had, a really effective stamina build with awesome crits.

So sure, maybe I did use the word impossible incorrectly, or maybe I was using hyperbole...

I am glad this One Tamerial is all flowers and bunnies for you. Can you accept the fact that it is not for others?

Elsonso

STEVIL wrote: »

@lordrichter
"Adaptation is nice, but at some point you have to wonder whether this is all just a meta game to them. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

No, actually you don't. if there were no obvious reasons for a change then maybe that question is valid. But the obvious sweeping changes scaled nodes, sets drops provide for the majority of players across a 1T world should make it apparent that while some players will need to adapt the way they do some things, its not just an arbitrary or whimsical screw with mortals kind of thing.

This is what they want you to think. Or, maybe you are in on it... trying to drive me mad!

STEVIL

Hluill wrote: »

I am glad this One Tamerial is all flowers and bunnies for you. Can you accept the fact that it is not for others?

The possibly insatiable drive to extremism is offputting.

As esrly as page one of this thread, my second post, i start mentioning crafting changes needed for 1T as i have on many threads before this one. I acknowledge good and bad and off ideas other than extreme ones.

Or as you intentionally mischaracterize it cuz maybe its not extreme enuf... One Tamerial is all flowers and bunnies for you

Gee

STEVIL

Error

Techkey1

I definitely agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY! When the update happened I went back to a lower level area to make me and a guildie a set for some theory crafting and I kept getting mats for my level so I couldn't do anything, this mad me highly upset. I have even been trying to make set for many lower level people but I can't now. At first I thought it was a bug, then I found out that this is supposed to be normal now? This is a HUGE mistake, they need to fix this fast because there are lots of problems with this type of system. Everything else is good, they just need to let all mats (materials) remain at the level of there location. I understand letting people be able to go to any location but part of the enjoyment of leveling is getting that reward of new mats when reaching higher levels in different locations, it helps let people to continue to travel to past locations for farming. So letting the mats stay at their leveled location will not hurt anyone. Please fix with haste! Or create an option in the menu to cut scaling on or off JK LOL! But seriously fix this!

Another fix would simply be to make higher level mats capable of (scaling) making lower level gear. Anything equal to or lower than that particular mat. Similar to enchantments or soul gems. ....but then would it say I made a ruby set or and iron set? hmmmm. I guess it wouldn't really matter what the title is as long as the gear scales. Weird situation though.

Yeah I like my first idea best. Just let there be different mats at different locations rather that the same mat based off level. If I want a particular mat I should have to travel to that location to get it. You could even scale that material. Ex: 160 iron, high iron, orichalcum etc, and allow that to slightly change that persons outfitted look. A 160 iron set would look slightly different that a 160 ruby set.

Well that's my three ideas.

STEVIL

Techkey1 wrote: »

I definitely agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY! When the update happened I went back to a lower level area to make me and a guildie a set for some theory crafting and I kept getting mats for my level so I couldn't do anything, this mad me highly upset. I have even been trying to make set for many lower level people but I can't now. At first I thought it was a bug, then I found out that this is supposed to be normal now? This is a HUGE mistake, they need to fix this fast because there are lots of problems with this type of system. Everything else is good, they just need to let all mats (materials) remain at the level of there location. I understand letting people be able to go to any location but part of the enjoyment of leveling is getting that reward of new mats when reaching higher levels in different locations, it helps let people to continue to travel to past locations for farming. So letting the mats stay at their leveled location will not hurt anyone. Please fix with haste! Or create an option in the menu to cut scaling on or off JK LOL! But seriously fix this!

Another fix would simply be to make higher level mats capable of (scaling) making lower level gear. Anything equal to or lower than that particular mat. Similar to enchantments or soul gems. ....but then would it say I made a ruby set or and iron set? hmmmm. I guess it wouldn't really matter what the title is as long as the gear scales. Weird situation though.

Yeah I like my first idea best. Just let there be different mats at different locations rather that the same mat based off level. If I want a particular mat I should have to travel to that location to get it. You could even scale that material. Ex: 160 iron, high iron, orichalcum etc, and allow that to slightly change that persons outfitted look. A 160 iron set would look slightly different that a 160 ruby set.

Well that's my three ideas.

First option and the one you like best takes scaled nodes from everyone.
Second option you dont like lets everyone keep the scaling zones but you also get to easily craft for lower gear.

Got it... take from others = more fun.

Elsonso

Techkey1 wrote: »

Yeah I like my first idea best. Just let there be different mats at different locations rather that the same mat based off level. If I want a particular mat I should have to travel to that location to get it.

Yup. This is the way it should be done. It does not need to be as tightly banded as it was before One Tamriel. I think Skyrim is a good model for how this can, and should, be done in an Elder Scrolls MMO. Harvest nodes placed where they make sense, by location, and spread across multiple zones so that each zone has a mix of resources. Not ever resource in every zone, but spanning the entire range of resources. Some zones might be more dense in ores and less dense in plants and trees (Stonefalls) while some might be heavier in trees than ore (Shadowfen). The Rift might have different wood than Shadowfen. Eastmarch might have different ore than Stonefalls.

We have more crafting levels and associated resources than we really need in the game. It is not really necessary to have leveled items from CP1 to CP 149. Linking itemization to Champion Ranks is as much a mistake today as it was when they did it for Veteran Ranks three years ago, something that is even more obvious now that we are in One Tamriel.

Node scaling should not exist. We have too many different crafting materials. The entire crafting system, from harvest nodes to character level specific crafting, needs to be updated for Champion System and One Tamriel.

STEVIL

As long as type of mat is tied hatd to level of gear but location of quest is no longer tied as tightly to level of character having type of mat tied to location is broken. It takes the 1T gameplay model of anywhere anytime and throws it back to "but some wheres and some times arent worthwhile, so really only do a few.

Consider your msrvelous idea of spreading multiple node types/levels around in one zone. Now you are pretty much assured to get some of the quest content providingbless useful stuff as you go around. Some areas less worthwhile mesns they get less play.

Consider this from another resource.

How about you fight as level 35 character oppositon scaled to match you but then their drop sets from bosses and dolmens and quest rewards ALL pop out at level 19, cuz, you know, that spot on the map is fixed at level 19.

Of course, this is a wonderful thing. You need mothers sorrow at level 19 for a guildie, just go down there, kill the dolmen and grab that level 19 ring.

Sure, everybody else not at 19 running the same quest zone is stuck with 19s too but thats a small price to pay.

If every threat and risk and challenge in an area scales to a character, why shouldn'mats and other rewards?

i mean, i am sure there would be tons of folks lining up outside the world boss that fights fully scaled but who drops level 10 rewards, right, just like they will be lining up to run quests in areas where they find mats that are useless at every node andf every drop.

shadowwraith666

there is a way to ensure you get the mats you need, allow NPC merchants to sell them alongside node collection as you could in skyrim, currently they only sell the style mats for most styles, other crafting mts could easily be added to their inventory.

Izaki

scorpiodog wrote: »

So pretty much the only reason left to level crafting has been eliminated.
Dropped sets afte cp 160 are much better than crafted sets, and can be put in jewelry slots. There might be 1 or 2 exceptions that are worth crafting but not worth 6 months of researh.

The only reason to craft gear was for leveling because getting 5 pieces of the same dropped set was impossible. But now you won't have mats to craft with.

@scorpiodog
In what way is Twice-born Star worse than any other set? In what way is Julianos worse than the Sliks of the Sun (which doesn't benefit from major sorcery)? In what way is Hunding's Rage worse than Automaton (which doesn't benefit from major brutality)? In what way is Night Mother's Gaze worse than the Sprigan set (which is a self-buff whereas NMG benefits the whole group)? In what way are Kagrenac's Hope or Seducer worse than most other sets used for magicka PvP? In what way is a set that gives you a buff that you can have through an ability better than a crafted set with a unique 5pc bonus?

I'm sorry but crafted sets are still the best sets in the game for PvE. For PvP there's so much customization available now that you can stop whining, but I bet that if someone doesn't use Black Rose, they are going to use a crafted set.

Elsonso

STEVIL wrote: »

i mean, i am sure there would be tons of folks lining up outside the world boss that fights fully scaled but who drops level 10 rewards, right, just like they will be lining up to run quests in areas where they find mats that are useless at every node andf every drop.

The problem with itemization is that it is focused on levels in a game that no longer really uses them. Thus, crafting is mired in character levels when it should not be mired in levels.

In a game where all the players are essentially the same level, what matters is skill and how much of it you have, not character levels. Honestly, the only reason that anyone cares about character level in One Tamriel is to get attribute points and skill points. In pure game design, levels are not required for that, but that is what ZOS uses for a milestone.

So, why should itemization be tied to level? Honestly, I have no idea. It seemed the right thing to get rid of with One Tamriel, especially after removal of Veteran System, but they didn't. I can only assume that they did not have time, resources, or vision to do such a thing. Likewise, crafting might be learned in levels, but the items that are created by crafting really should not be tied to character levels. As long as itemization is tied to character levels, crafting will be, too.

Harvest nodes should not be scaled because there is no reason in One Tamriel to craft to a character level. Crafting levels can be used for a better purpose than keeping up with the character's level. With One Tamriel, crafting level can be used to make better crafted items. Resources can be used to to make better crafted items, not crafted items for a particular character level.

If this is done right, crafting becomes more aligned with how the characters are built and what abilities and skills they have, instead of the level of the character.

Thus... level scaled harvest nodes become obsolete simply because a proper crafting system would not have scaled resources like that. Certain resources might be unlocked by better crafting skills, but there would not be the resource progression of today, where you drop everything and move to the next resource.

SolidusPrime

I love most of the changes, but not this one.

It just doesn't make any sense to me at all - from a lore perspective, or a game play one. I see a lot of responses saying "it isn't that bad" or explaining how to use the new system effectively, but why was it even changed to begin with? Was it really that hard to go to the zone that had a material and farm it? That's what I did all the way to 50, and never had an issue.

STEVIL

lordrichter wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

i mean, i am sure there would be tons of folks lining up outside the world boss that fights fully scaled but who drops level 10 rewards, right, just like they will be lining up to run quests in areas where they find mats that are useless at every node andf every drop.

The problem with itemization is that it is focused on levels in a game that no longer really uses them. Thus, crafting is mired in character levels when it should not be mired in levels.

In a game where all the players are essentially the same level, what matters is skill and how much of it you have, not character levels. Honestly, the only reason that anyone cares about character level in One Tamriel is to get attribute points and skill points. In pure game design, levels are not required for that, but that is what ZOS uses for a milestone.

So, why should itemization be tied to level? Honestly, I have no idea. It seemed the right thing to get rid of with One Tamriel, especially after removal of Veteran System, but they didn't. I can only assume that they did not have time, resources, or vision to do such a thing. Likewise, crafting might be learned in levels, but the items that are created by crafting really should not be tied to character levels. As long as itemization is tied to character levels, crafting will be, too.

Harvest nodes should not be scaled because there is no reason in One Tamriel to craft to a character level. Crafting levels can be used for a better purpose than keeping up with the character's level. With One Tamriel, crafting level can be used to make better crafted items. Resources can be used to to make better crafted items, not crafted items for a particular character level.

If this is done right, crafting becomes more aligned with how the characters are built and what abilities and skills they have, instead of the level of the character.

Thus... level scaled harvest nodes become obsolete simply because a proper crafting system would not have scaled resources like that. Certain resources might be unlocked by better crafting skills, but there would not be the resource progression of today, where you drop everything and move to the next resource.

Ok so what you are saying is IF they go with an entirely new crafting system, then the way things are done now should change drastically.

i agree.

Frankly, tho, if they remove the lower gear cap on mats, like they did with the upper for glyphs/potencies, crafting will be pretty much at the "while develop see changes in capability of gear then once maxed all harvest for any use" and thats as close as you get until levels go away IF that ever happens. (and of course, it doesn't take nodes from anybody in any area just enables master crafters more options than they have now.)

But yeah, obviously 1T and ESO wide could go levelless but its not anything like simple and likely not coming for a long long time.

Rune_Relic

STEVIL wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Agree with OP.

I dont buy and sell. I am fully independant....or try to be.
I have 1 main crafter who spend all points and skills focused in to crafting.
I have alts that leave the crafting to the main crafter so they can allocate skill points into the areas they need.
I require 0 gold and can remain free from all the trading hassle.
At least I could.

The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away
1T has taken away my ability to be self sufficient with 0 gold.

Awaits the ....but MMO crap.
I also spent much time crafting for others who wanted 8-9 trait low level gear (FOC) for use or decon.
If I have surplus stuff...and friends with no gold need it ...I craft free goods.
So dont even go there.

I cant decon low level gear with 0 gold value as they return nothing.
You cant be awarded low level gear drops at max level for decon.
You cant go to a specific zone and get mats of a desired level.
All you can do now is buy....so my independence has been stolen.

Now I have to play the 'buy/sell' game instead of just the 'crafting' game
Writ RNG doesnt give me anything but a chance of what I may or may not need.

First bold, your ability to be independent with 0 gold and now commerce has not been taken away.
if by "my" you mean your main character crafter they can harvest anything they need anywhere anytime. gear drops, set drops etc always useful. 'Nuff said.

I can not go to location X and get material Y

if by "my" you mean all your characters, that crafting for your alts bit, the alts routine casual play harvest even if only drops, gear always at their level now easily gain the mats needed and gear needed for decon sufficient for anything short of excessive recrafting. just in routine quest play my decon has been running like it never has because all the gear is relevent to someone's levels. Even casual harvesting now produces tons of mats. (Now yeah you might shift the "when i craft" a bit... but that is not lost functionality just altered functionality and every time there is a major change to the game someones functionality changes.)

if by "my" you mean your crafter, your alts and however many others you have who need yo to craft for them and for you to provide the mats, the demand for crafted sets is going way down with the scaling set drops, the casual harvest of decon-worthy gear is going up and now even with just casual play and harvest their need for you to provide mats is gonna go way down. heck, as i have said before, the entire "desirability" of crafted sets during the development levels is very much diminished by the scaled set drops flooding into inventories from just routine questing, delving etc.

The independence of the vast majority of character in play is going UP and in a big way precisely because of the things you and others are complaining about.

"The whole point of improvements is to INCREASE options/freedom not take them away"

No.

YES. How can a game improve if it does not improve for EVERYBODY !

The whole point of improvements and updates is to make the game work better. Sometimes for the gam,e to work better, some previous ways to get things done have to change. happens most every time they do an update.

and every time there is someone here or there who yells and screams and preaches doom of the game or the sub-game and so on and so forth... and every time... after a short bit in play once the transitions work out... it moves on to be seen as "yeah, overall this works."

Thing about this time is the crafters aren't looking at "need to spend gazillions to regold a new type of gear" just chaning operations.

Like i have said, i think they still need some adjustments... easiest is to remove the lower cap for mat use... so basically every node your master crafter ever harvests will be useful for crafting any level gear for you, for you alt or for anyone.

But some people seem to like having many inventory slots consumed so... if that isn't sufficient... they can also add farms/mines in select areas where you can "harvest" lower tier mats but leave the totalit of the nodes scaling in tact.

they already added lower level packs into writ payouts.

WRITS are RNG. I have no interest in RNG. I was perfectly happy spending TIME farming instead. RNG gives maybes...not certainties.

But by far IMO the biggest impact to crafting for equip is the devaluation of it in general by the increase in drop-set availability and variety. its just not as crucial to have these crafted sets during development periods where they will be obsolete very quickly compared to the next drop set you find at a higher level.

SO you are defending this because it benefits YOU and the the buy/sell game you want to play

its a double whammy - demand for crafted sets in the developing levels is going down and gear drops and nodes will provide more than sufficient mats for what crafting is chosen anyway.

IMO the biggest issue is not how can you change up things to keep mats for crafting lower level gear... but more like you wont be asked to craft as much at that level and they will have their own mats - or gear to decon. crafter characters who spent a lot of time crafting gear for developing characters likely need to pick-up a hobby to help fill that soon-to-be-free time. I hear macrame is quite relaxing.

Please read what was written and not what you want to read.
Please stop telling me the changes are good for you so they are good for me as well.

Rune_Relic

lordrichter wrote: »

Techkey1 wrote: »

Yeah I like my first idea best. Just let there be different mats at different locations rather that the same mat based off level. If I want a particular mat I should have to travel to that location to get it.

Yup. This is the way it should be done. It does not need to be as tightly banded as it was before One Tamriel. I think Skyrim is a good model for how this can, and should, be done in an Elder Scrolls MMO. Harvest nodes placed where they make sense, by location, and spread across multiple zones so that each zone has a mix of resources. Not ever resource in every zone, but spanning the entire range of resources. Some zones might be more dense in ores and less dense in plants and trees (Stonefalls) while some might be heavier in trees than ore (Shadowfen). The Rift might have different wood than Shadowfen. Eastmarch might have different ore than Stonefalls.

We have more crafting levels and associated resources than we really need in the game. It is not really necessary to have leveled items from CP1 to CP 149. Linking itemization to Champion Ranks is as much a mistake today as it was when they did it for Veteran Ranks three years ago, something that is even more obvious now that we are in One Tamriel.

Node scaling should not exist. We have too many different crafting materials. The entire crafting system, from harvest nodes to character level specific crafting, needs to be updated for Champion System and One Tamriel.

Exactly this.

At the end of the day the problem has come about for people doing 1-50, silver, gold (or not due to scaling).
They could just as easily have 1-50, silver & gold mats all available in the same location they was previously.
Everything remains where it was.
Everybody knows where to go.
Nobody has issues getting any material of any level.
Nobody has to play the RNG lottery.
Nobody has to play the buy/sell game.