What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Yes, they did answer questions, and basically said "These are great, you'll see! Just trust us!" And completely ignored any and all objections to them, or just blew them off as being 'unfounded concerns,' in spite of the fact that literally every single MMO that has stooped to the level of having these lockboxes (every single one) has gone down the exact same road.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Yes, they did answer questions, and basically said "These are great, you'll see! Just trust us!" And completely ignored any and all objections to them, or just blew them off as being 'unfounded concerns,' in spite of the fact that literally every single MMO that has stooped to the level of having these lockboxes (every single one) has gone down the exact same road.

You expected anything else?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Yes, they did answer questions, and basically said "These are great, you'll see! Just trust us!" And completely ignored any and all objections to them, or just blew them off as being 'unfounded concerns,' in spite of the fact that literally every single MMO that has stooped to the level of having these lockboxes (every single one) has gone down the exact same road.

You expected anything else?

No. Doesn't make it less disappointing, however.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Yes, they did answer questions, and basically said "These are great, you'll see! Just trust us!" And completely ignored any and all objections to them, or just blew them off as being 'unfounded concerns,' in spite of the fact that literally every single MMO that has stooped to the level of having these lockboxes (every single one) has gone down the exact same road.

You expected anything else?

Of course I didn't. This is ZOS we're talking about, and I've played this game since early access. But as the fellow above me said, it doesn't change my attitude in the slightest.

By the way, yay, 98 pages. Maybe we'll finally get some dev input, or hit the 100 page mark.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Yes, they did answer questions, and basically said "These are great, you'll see! Just trust us!" And completely ignored any and all objections to them, or just blew them off as being 'unfounded concerns,' in spite of the fact that literally every single MMO that has stooped to the level of having these lockboxes (every single one) has gone down the exact same road.

You expected anything else?

Of course I didn't. This is ZOS we're talking about, and I've played this game since early access. But as the fellow above me said, it doesn't change my attitude in the slightest.

By the way, yay, 98 pages. Maybe we'll finally get some dev input, or hit the 100 page mark.

NAH there going to shut there mouths and go back in there little LOCKBOXES they will just keep raving on about how good they are in live letters and other *** ways CAUSE the questions ppl want to ask they aint got the BALLS to answer !!

MBite

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

By the way, yay, 98 pages. Maybe we'll finally get some dev input, or hit the 100 page mark.

They called us "concerned", no way they will comment or answer in this thread.

What I think they will do. First, repeat same 4 sentences that we already know for months. Release the crownboxes. Start putting more exclusives. Create more types of crownboxes. Slowly remove ability to buy directly items in crown store. And finally we can say BYE to all cosmetic items cause they will be behind RNG paywall.

To be honest, if I was a company I would too put everything in crownboxes. Just look at Valve, their boxes are selling like hot bread.

Farmerr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MBite wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

By the way, yay, 98 pages. Maybe we'll finally get some dev input, or hit the 100 page mark.

They called us "concerned", no way they will comment or answer in this thread.

What I think they will do. First, repeat same 4 sentences that we already know for months. Release the crownboxes. Start putting more exclusives. Create more types of crownboxes. Slowly remove ability to buy directly items in crown store. And finally we can say BYE to all cosmetic items cause they will be behind RNG paywall.

To be honest, if I was a company I would too put everything in crownboxes. Just look at Valve, their boxes are selling like hot bread.

Oh I know. These boxes make tons of money for every game that has them, and eventually the "whales" end up providing more income than a regular sub ever could. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. *sigh* This is the only MMO that I still regularly play, and primarily because I was both an Elder Scrolls fan (been playing since Daggerfall) and also because it was nowhere near as blatant with its cash-grabbery as certain other games (The Old Republic, for example).

So, no, I'm not surprised that the suits at ZOS were all like "Hey, this is guaranteed to make us more money! Let's do it!" The devs could have chosen otherwise, perhaps could have made a statement... but even then, we all know how their "We will always be a sub-based game" statement from release went.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

The least they could say is "We're watching this thread and taking in your opinions."

Incase you missed the article from ZoS on this, they are watching this thread, and they feel the players are over reacting.

Because they are to an enormous degree.

Their fears are based on previous games and a thought process of "maybe it'll happen again, so I'm going to pack up my toys and go home now".

Games evolve and it really doesn't matter that they said a year ago that they had no plans for goodie boxes. Business models change.

I for one am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I hear that P2W items are in the boxes instead of consumables and cosmetic items - THAT"S when I will leave. Not because it may happen in the far future.

It's not all about P2W items - it's about being charged much more for an item simply because the chances are very high you're not going to get the item you want first try.

If I go into a restaurant and order a meal, I expect the meal I wanted. If the restaurant started selling me tickets which gave me the chance at the meal I wanted, or alternatively lots of things I didn't want, then I'm not going to eat there.

Simply put, for consumers these boxes suck. They're an artificial gate to the items a consumer actually wants, dressed up to be "fun". The intention is to artificially raise the price of items by hiding them behind stupid amounts of RNG. Or put another way - it's pure exploitation of the playerbase. Whether it's something P2W or simply a mount or a costume, this kind of manipulation is inherently anti-consumer and pro-shareholder.

Thing is I ain't a shareholder, so I couldn't care less about that, but as a consumer I don't like being played with.

MBite

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Oh I know. These boxes make tons of money for every game that has them, and eventually the "whales" end up providing more income than a regular sub ever could. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. *sigh* This is the only MMO that I still regularly play, and primarily because I was both an Elder Scrolls fan (been playing since Daggerfall) and also because it was nowhere near as blatant with its cash-grabbery as certain other games (The Old Republic, for example).

So, no, I'm not surprised that the suits at ZOS were all like "Hey, this is guaranteed to make us more money! Let's do it!" The devs could have chosen otherwise, perhaps could have made a statement... but even then, we all know how their "We will always be a sub-based game" statement from release went.

After devs not responding to us and repeating the same, I just gave up. For every good person that know how this will end, we have 100 stupid kids that stole parents credit card.

We might be against it, but it will come. We only can hope that this is last worst thing to come. And we know how it isnt.

Anyway, we might get record on how big is this thread, cant remember any that was this long. Maybe some forum veteran could say if there was any longer.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MBite wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Oh I know. These boxes make tons of money for every game that has them, and eventually the "whales" end up providing more income than a regular sub ever could. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. *sigh* This is the only MMO that I still regularly play, and primarily because I was both an Elder Scrolls fan (been playing since Daggerfall) and also because it was nowhere near as blatant with its cash-grabbery as certain other games (The Old Republic, for example).

So, no, I'm not surprised that the suits at ZOS were all like "Hey, this is guaranteed to make us more money! Let's do it!" The devs could have chosen otherwise, perhaps could have made a statement... but even then, we all know how their "We will always be a sub-based game" statement from release went.

We only can hope that this is last worst thing to come. And we know how it isnt.

Honestly after the "we'll always be sub" lie, the DB and TG "free" updates coming out as paid-for DLCs and now this, I'm hoping that Bethesda and ZOS wake up, realise what they're doing to their brand and reputation and either backtrack on the anti-consumer practices, or wind the game up.

I don't think ESO is struggling for cash, I just think the investors and powers-that-be are getting greedy and want to see bigger profits, but if I'm wrong, maybe it's better to shutter a game if it can't support itself through honest means rather than wiping away any goodwill that's left? At this point all of these shady practices come at the expense of the Elder Scrolls and developer brands.

Arezius

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Or maybe ZOS realized that ESO could go in the way of Elder Scrolls VI and decided to just milk the remaining players, but all "loyal" players of Elder Scrolls will then prefer to stop ESO and go for ES VI when it will be out ... in 3 years.

But I follow the one saying that it hurts the name of Zenimax a lot. Look at Trion which had a very good name with a team coming from Everquest and made a great MMO, and now everyone know they just make money grabbing free-to-play crap and don't even care about their new games. And Zenimax is turning into that in our head right now.
Zenimax with Bethesda built an awesome reputation until now and they're completely destroying it right now, they even hurt the Elder Scrolls franchise on their way. Lying makes a company earn more money today, but makes you die in the long run. Does investors really want that ? (a question for you at ZOS)

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Xabien wrote: »

If I go into a restaurant and order a meal, I expect the meal I wanted. If the restaurant started selling me tickets which gave me the chance at the meal I wanted, or alternatively lots of things I didn't want, then I'm not going to eat there.

No. It is like going into a restaurant and seeing really really good food on the menu. Food you want. However, you have to buy a meal package for a really low price that gives you bread and water every time, but you have a chance of getting a better meal.

Xabien wrote: »

Honestly I don't think ESO is struggling for cash, I just think the investors and powers-that-be are getting greedy and want to see bigger profits, but if I'm wrong, maybe it's better to shutter a game if it can't support itself through honest means rather than wiping away any goodwill that's left? At this point all of these shady practices come at the expense of the Elder Scrolls and developer brands.

Ultimately, I think these boxes will serve the purpose of separating the performance and features of the game from revenue.

The devs made a fleeting reference to critical comments about them, which probably includes stuff I have said, but the fact of the matter is that the production of the game has been average. They have missed obvious opportunities to address high profile issues with systems, while still developing the systems. It costs more to go back into those systems and refactor them than it does to do it the first time. Sometimes, it feels like they stop working on something one or two iterations too early. For a studio that already works at a relatively slow pace, this just compounds the problem and makes it harder to deliver a top quality experience that will drive revenue.

The gamble boxes only require cosmetic items, and if people buy these up, it takes the pressure off the game designers to drive revenue.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

If I go into a restaurant and order a meal, I expect the meal I wanted. If the restaurant started selling me tickets which gave me the chance at the meal I wanted, or alternatively lots of things I didn't want, then I'm not going to eat there.

No. It is like going into a restaurant and seeing really really good food on the menu. Food you want. However, you have to buy a meal package for a really low price that gives you bread and water every time, but you have a chance of getting a better meal.

Xabien wrote: »

Honestly I don't think ESO is struggling for cash, I just think the investors and powers-that-be are getting greedy and want to see bigger profits, but if I'm wrong, maybe it's better to shutter a game if it can't support itself through honest means rather than wiping away any goodwill that's left? At this point all of these shady practices come at the expense of the Elder Scrolls and developer brands.

<snip>

The gamble boxes only require cosmetic items, and if people buy these up, it takes the pressure off the game designers to drive revenue.

And yet this does not address the fact that in order to monetise they'll be intentionally fleecing people who're specifically after one item. Again - if I buy something, I want the something, not a lot of other stuff that I didn't ask for. Crates are an artificial barrier that on average, drives up the price paid for items because it's skewed in the publisher's favour. It's a "the house always wins" scenario.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Xabien wrote: »

And yet this does not address the fact that in order to monetise they'll be intentionally fleecing people who're specifically after one item. Again - if I buy something, I want the something, not a lot of other stuff that I didn't ask for. Crates are an artificial barrier that on average, drives up the price paid for items because it's skewed in the publisher's favour. It's a "the house always wins" scenario.

I don't recall what article said it, but one of them basically hit the nail on the head. No studio does gamble boxes to win player approval. These boxes are universally hated by players, even the ultra mild ones like ZOS is starting off with. If the Studio was interested in player approval, they would be looking elsewhere for solutions to the vexing return of limited time mounts and costumes. The Studio is interested in player revenue, not approval, and with gamble boxes, they don't need a popular majority.

So, there really isn't anything to address. Well, unless these Crown Crates do not generate the necessary revenue. Then there will be something to address.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

The gamble boxes only require cosmetic items, and if people buy these up, it takes the pressure off the game designers to drive revenue.

At which point they get laid off, because the company as a whole no longer needs them to make money.

Magic_Doogies

It comes off as too much of a gambling scheme. I can personally ignore it so long as it's only useless cosmetics like mounts and pets. But it still feels yucky to have it on the crown store. Too much potential for it to be a bad thing later down the line.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

The gamble boxes only require cosmetic items, and if people buy these up, it takes the pressure off the game designers to drive revenue.

At which point they get laid off, because the company as a whole no longer needs them to make money.

Not entirely true. You do not hear people recommend a game because the gamble boxes are really good. Most games do not even advertise their gamble boxes. Gamble boxes do not sell games. The promise of the game sells games.

A Studio can take a game where development has ended and market it, but it is still the game that attracts attention. Eventually, though, the game has run the course.

Studios can do two things. They can retain developers to keep the lights on for a game. This activity attracts attention and reminds people that the game is still growing and changing. Alternately, they can send the developers to work on the next game and let the old one die of attrition. These are not mutually exclusive. A studio can do both, at least for a while

As much as the developers might be treated like commodity cattle, they are necessary for the studio to make money from the gamble boxes.

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Anyone notice the "Portable Banker Premium" and "Portable Merchant Premium"? Want to bet whoever gets these will be able to get guild banks/stores and the merchant will repair?

If the mounts are offered for outright sale, it might not be bad. People can decide what they want and whether the item is worth it. But the rngesus crates? Oh yeah, right. 400 crowns. Cheaper if you spend more though and get the 15 crate bundle....

Yeah this is heading down a path I don't think I want to be on.

Cerilon

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Can't they just offer straight up purchases of the items to ESO + subscribers? Even if people would drop the sub immediately after, it could still generate some revenue. Those people might even stay when they see how convenient the crafting bags are.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JKorr wrote: »

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Anyone notice the "Portable Banker Premium" and "Portable Merchant Premium"? Want to bet whoever gets these will be able to get guild banks/stores and the merchant will repair?

If the mounts are offered for outright sale, it might not be bad. People can decide what they want and whether the item is worth it. But the rngesus crates? Oh yeah, right. 400 crowns. Cheaper if you spend more though and get the 15 crate bundle....

Yeah this is heading down a path I don't think I want to be on.

Actually, that was my first thought as well but apparently these 'premium' guys will allow party members to use them. Yeah, that's it, party member use = 5000 crowns to buy the same guys but you get to share! 6 months later they will release the uber premium which will be all of the above plus repair and guild store for a small down payment of 10k Crowns financed annually for an addition 2000 crown tax.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

nimander99 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Anyone notice the "Portable Banker Premium" and "Portable Merchant Premium"? Want to bet whoever gets these will be able to get guild banks/stores and the merchant will repair?

If the mounts are offered for outright sale, it might not be bad. People can decide what they want and whether the item is worth it. But the rngesus crates? Oh yeah, right. 400 crowns. Cheaper if you spend more though and get the 15 crate bundle....

Yeah this is heading down a path I don't think I want to be on.

Actually, that was my first thought as well but apparently these 'premium' guys will allow party members to use them. Yeah, that's it, party member use = 5000 crowns to buy the same guys but you get to share! 6 months later they will release the uber premium which will be all of the above plus repair and guild store for a small down payment of 10k Crowns financed annually for an addition 2000 crown tax.

But party members can use the existing ones already.
I'm thinking it can be just a labeling error and they are just the same merchant and banker but with a different look.

Jade1986

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I like how the last staff comment was saying they removed some posts , and since then have stayed silent. Seriously, majority of people on every forum, in game chat channel, and social media site DO NOT WANT THIS. Yet naturally they will add it.

#Logic

Pallio

VMSA weapons would be awesome.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Anyone notice the "Portable Banker Premium" and "Portable Merchant Premium"? Want to bet whoever gets these will be able to get guild banks/stores and the merchant will repair?

If the mounts are offered for outright sale, it might not be bad. People can decide what they want and whether the item is worth it. But the rngesus crates? Oh yeah, right. 400 crowns. Cheaper if you spend more though and get the 15 crate bundle....

Yeah this is heading down a path I don't think I want to be on.

Actually, that was my first thought as well but apparently these 'premium' guys will allow party members to use them. Yeah, that's it, party member use = 5000 crowns to buy the same guys but you get to share! 6 months later they will release the uber premium which will be all of the above plus repair and guild store for a small down payment of 10k Crowns financed annually for an addition 2000 crown tax.

But party members can use the existing ones already.
I'm thinking it can be just a labeling error and they are just the same merchant and banker but with a different look.

Hmmmmm... I wasn't aware of this. I just always assumed no one could use my minions, then read the text and figured I was right, unless that is being removed and resold... Wouldn't put it past them (Zenimax Illuminati Controllers).

FireCowCommando

No, don't ever add these into the game.

One thing i have learned from ESO after all this time is that i will never support Bethesda products again. Furthermore i will aggressively shame their brand to any friend who considers buying any of their products.

Pomaikai

No, don't ever add these into the game.

It's gambling, and the odds are SO bad that they'll refuse to tell you what they are. You have a better chance playing the slots at a casino, which are known as the suckers bet. At least you'll get free drinks while playing at the casino.

I used to play a Kongregate collectible card game, and someone in my guild spent over $24,000 buying "random" boxes, which were in fact far from random. There was actually a pattern, and if you wanted all the good cards in the box, you HAD to buy pretty much the entire thing, which was $2,400.

Gambling boxes, because I refuse to call things that are designed to NOT be random a "random" box, are evil. They bring out things in people that should never see the light of day. People can and will max out credit cards they can't afford to pay off for NOTHING! It's just ephemeral crap.

Put gambling boxes in the Crown Store, and I'm done spending money on this game until they're gone.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'm watching this happen, and I am genuinely sad. The same company that created the games that I and so many others love.. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and now ESO.. just ruining their reputation and throwing it all away like this. And the wonderful thing is? If they just did a pre-emptive mea culpa and said, "Hey, guys, after some serious thought we've decided we won't be going through with these RNG boxes due to the enormous outcry from you, our valued customers," not only would they avert this, but they would actually EARN a lot more respect from me...

But nope. They won't do it. And that makes it even worse, somehow. *sigh*

At this point I'm even starting to lose my enthusiasm for Elder Scrolls VI. If and when it ever does come out, my opinion of it will already be trashed because of this despicable practice by ZOS. Whether it was ZOS or Bethesda or some combination of the two whose decision it was to do this, they are ruining the reputation and legacy of the Elder Scrolls games and their universe.

*sigh* As M'aiq would say, "Some people remind this one of mud crabs. Vile creatures, with no redeeming qualities." We should start insulting mud crabs by calling them suits, instead.

Pomaikai

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I would like this, there are several mounts I've been wanting to get which I never got originally, and I dont mind spending some money for a second chance at these.

I just have one request, please make it so that I cant get the same mount twice, it sucks having to spend money and get nothing in return.

If I counted correctly, there have been 17 time limited mounts available in the crown store. If already purchased mounts don't count, then the number of available mounts would degrees.

Which would mean that I have a 3 out of 15 chance of getting one of the mounts that I want. I can live with that.

They will not be random like that. The rare ones will require well over 17 tries to get. If you think you're really going to get odds that good, just take your next paycheck, cash it, put it in a paper bag, set it on fire, and throw it out the window while driving on the freeway.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Pomaikai wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I would like this, there are several mounts I've been wanting to get which I never got originally, and I dont mind spending some money for a second chance at these.

I just have one request, please make it so that I cant get the same mount twice, it sucks having to spend money and get nothing in return.

If I counted correctly, there have been 17 time limited mounts available in the crown store. If already purchased mounts don't count, then the number of available mounts would degrees.

Which would mean that I have a 3 out of 15 chance of getting one of the mounts that I want. I can live with that.

They will not be random like that. The rare ones will require well over 17 tries to get. If you think you're really going to get odds that good, just take your next paycheck, cash it, put it in a paper bag, set it on fire, and throw it out the window while driving on the freeway.

That's the whole problem with these boxes. You not only have no way of knowing exactly what "chance" you have of getting what you want, the chance itself is still irrelevant because it doesn't guarantee anything. A 1% chance is a 1% chance, no matter how much money you spend or how many boxes you open, even the 100th one where people fall victim to the famous "gambler's fallacy" that "well statistically speaking I've already won by now! Just another try!" Nope. You still just have that same 1% chance. And that's assuming that ZOS's famous RNG is, in fact, accurate when they tell you you have a % chance of succeeding/winning at whatever, and many threads have shown the opposite, for whatever that's worth.

And by that 100th box, you've spent 40000 crowns, and still have nothing to show for it. This is why people have said (including myself) that if they insist on the crown store than at least just put things on there for a flat price. You know exactly what you're spending and you're only buying exactly what you want, nothing more, nothing less.

As opposed to these boxes, where you would be buying a "chance" at getting what you really want, never guaranteed to actually get it, and potentially spending far more, even 10 times as much, as even the most expensive mount on the crown store ever was (which if memory serves was 4000 crowns?).

So, in closing, I doubt you could 'live' with that, or if you did, it would in all likelihood not be a very fulfilling and satisfied life.