What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

greyman wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.

You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.

I think this article was written for you: http://www.gamerbolt.com/gamers-dont-realise-games-made/

Well, actually it is not complicated to implement that - if you have scaling anyway in place, it is just a multiplicator which would have to be added to make it difficulty slider adjustable - this multiplicator would just scale the final stats up or down and you would have your difficulty adjustable - it is that trivial even. It is not much different from how this is done in other TES games, where just 2 multiplicators (factors) are adjusted by the game when you choose another difficulty.

Waiting for you to build your MMO

Well, you are on my ignore list, but I will make a comment to this nevertheless. If you would have used the creation kit or the GECK for other Bethesda games, you would know, that I am correct, but you obviously did not do that ever - and so you make remarks like this - absolutely pointless and baiting.

single player games v mmo...

world of difference

This is exactly right AND why they stick these lockbox type deals in single player games.. while im not a huge fan of it i realize that there needs to be money in the kitty to develop dlc etc and in general make money so fair enough!! BUT pushing them to customers in mmos that already have stores and subs ( while be it optional) comes across as disgusting and down right GREEDY!! if they cant make there quota on there revenue why are they not taking a long hard look at themselves first??? allowing lag issues double loading issues among the other hundreds of other issues they just sat on there hands with for months all the while LOSING PLAYERS now when they need revenue there putting there hands in the pocket of the ppl who rode out the issues and asking MORE PLEASE!!

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

So I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.

Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.

I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.

It's because we have the amazing power to remember past events, and extrapolate patterns of behavior. It's a terrifying power, but one we learn to live with.

yup... pattern recognition... us humans are really good at it, a survival mechanism. in fact we are so good at it that we see patterns where there are none.

Nice, one week going and you finally said something I can agree with... So that agree is from me btw (incase you didn't put that together ).

RocDonald

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Uh, no. It would just turn into a big cash grab and an endless amount of people complaining about what they didn't get.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Graydon wrote: »

Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.

starkerealm wrote: »

@Graydon, okay, if I take you at face value, and assume you're not voting purple as an act of subversion...

Oh, right, forgot about that assumption. Probably the only actual assumption I made. Oh well.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

im hungry for scones now but it will be a cold day in hell when ill buy there stupid boxes to get screwed over!!!

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Is anyone @ZOS going to chime in here? Baseless fears aside, I think there's a fairly LOUD don't put RNG behind $$$$ boxes going on in these here forums.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

snakester320 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

greyman wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.

You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.

I think this article was written for you: http://www.gamerbolt.com/gamers-dont-realise-games-made/

Well, actually it is not complicated to implement that - if you have scaling anyway in place, it is just a multiplicator which would have to be added to make it difficulty slider adjustable - this multiplicator would just scale the final stats up or down and you would have your difficulty adjustable - it is that trivial even. It is not much different from how this is done in other TES games, where just 2 multiplicators (factors) are adjusted by the game when you choose another difficulty.

Waiting for you to build your MMO

Well, you are on my ignore list, but I will make a comment to this nevertheless. If you would have used the creation kit or the GECK for other Bethesda games, you would know, that I am correct, but you obviously did not do that ever - and so you make remarks like this - absolutely pointless and baiting.

single player games v mmo...

world of difference

This is exactly right AND why they stick these lockbox type deals in single player games.. while im not a huge fan of it i realize that there needs to be money in the kitty to develop dlc etc and in general make money so fair enough!! BUT pushing them to customers in mmos that already have stores and subs ( while be it optional) comes across as disgusting and down right GREEDY!! if they cant make there quota on there revenue why are they not taking a long hard look at themselves first??? allowing lag issues double loading issues among the other hundreds of other issues they just sat on there hands with for months all the while LOSING PLAYERS now when they need revenue there putting there hands in the pocket of the ppl who rode out the issues and asking MORE PLEASE!!

umm..... not quite sure what your usual rant about lock boxes has to do with my comment.

the conversation there was about modifying code to enable a difficulty slider - i was just pointing out that doing that for a single player game was nothing like doing the same thing in a multiplayer game.

dan958

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

As long as they are only cosmetic, I can purchase them with crowns as well, and I don't get a repeat of what I already have.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

So I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.

Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.

I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.

It's because we have the amazing power to remember past events, and extrapolate patterns of behavior. It's a terrifying power, but one we learn to live with.

yup... pattern recognition... us humans are really good at it, a survival mechanism. in fact we are so good at it that we see patterns where there are none.

Nice, one week going and you finally said something I can agree with... So that agree is from me btw (incase you didn't put that together ).

well, thank you

the bit about seeing patterns where there are none is a major part of the survival mechanism - a false positive is better than missing an event - those shadows under that tree look like it could be a tiger, best get away from here.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

greyman wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.

You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.

I think this article was written for you: http://www.gamerbolt.com/gamers-dont-realise-games-made/

Well, actually it is not complicated to implement that - if you have scaling anyway in place, it is just a multiplicator which would have to be added to make it difficulty slider adjustable - this multiplicator would just scale the final stats up or down and you would have your difficulty adjustable - it is that trivial even. It is not much different from how this is done in other TES games, where just 2 multiplicators (factors) are adjusted by the game when you choose another difficulty.

Waiting for you to build your MMO

Well, you are on my ignore list, but I will make a comment to this nevertheless. If you would have used the creation kit or the GECK for other Bethesda games, you would know, that I am correct, but you obviously did not do that ever - and so you make remarks like this - absolutely pointless and baiting.

single player games v mmo...

world of difference

Not in this case, it is as well just a multiplier, which value would be adjusted using a difficulty slider - that multiplicator is scaling the final attribute stats - what is so hard to understand, that this is totally simple to implement? This has nothing to do with single player and MMO - it is just an individual adjustment to the scaling coming with One Tamriel anyway.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Dromede wrote: »

To people who say that majority of players operate with assumptions and guesses - well, it's not like we've been given anything better.

Well, it is not as if this would be a bad thing to do anyway. Just someone totally stupid waits for the events to happen and then starts to think about how to deal with those. A clever person estimates what will be coming and will make a plan how to deal with the situation, when it will be there. To be prepared, it takes assumptions and sometimes as well educated guesses, like for example from experience with other similar events (like it is here), come to a conclusion about what is going to happen in the near future and then plan ahead - those, who think, you should not use assumptions and guesses are just missing what life is all about. Most stuff in life is based on assumptions - like you assume every workday, that your work place will still be there and you are still welcome in that company - that is an assumption, based on experience.

So the whole argument that these are just assumptions and guesses is invalid - this is just how adults tend to deal with life.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.

Can they, though? I see the lack of a difficulty slider as a technical issue based on game design decisions, not any kind of reluctance to implement such a feature.

When most of the quest areas are open-world, with phasing based on quest completion, how would you implement such a slider? How do you assign a level/stats to an NPC when anybody can come wandering into the area? If the NPCs are spawned based on your level and difficulty, what happens when someone with a lesser difficulty wanders in?

For instanced areas something like this should be possible. The crown's difficulty level when entering the instance can be used, or some other kind of variation.

I admit I could be wrong, and it could be very possible to implement these sliders in the open world, but I have never seen it explained on these forums or elsewhere online. Am I missing something?

I feel like once they decided to use fewer instances and more open world, and especially use phasing, sliders became impossible to do well, if at all. Just think about how poor the teaming experience can be during quests in open areas. Many times the questing functions like playing a single-player game alongside your friends. Now try to scale the mobs on top of it?

With One Tamriel it is just a multiplicator for the final stats, which are anyway derived by a scaling factor - the addictional difficulty slider factor would be like 0.8xstats for very hard - 0.9xstats for hard - 1.0xstats for normal - 1.1x stats for easy - 1.2xstats for very easy - something like this - it is really that trivial. And because One Tamriel is just in PvE zones, this could not interfere with gameplay, given that competitive results should just be valid when the slider is in "normal" position. But otherwise people couild simply set their slider to hard and would have 10% less good stats - or to very easy and have 20% better stats. It is really not hard to implement that.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

This is not entirely true. Zos can start with the odd "Crown Crate" exclusive here and there. But if that doesn't work Zos is only going to go down the path of adding more and more only available in "Crown Crate" items, until that's the only new Crown Store items we'll see. New RNG items. These boxes are the cancer of games. Stop developing content in favor of creating ca$h grabs.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jeevin wrote: »

This is not entirely true. Zos can start with the odd "Crown Crate" exclusive here and there. But if that doesn't work Zos is only going to go down the path of adding more and more only available in "Crown Crate" items, until that's the only new Crown Store items we'll see. New RNG items. These boxes are the cancer of games. Stop developing content in favor of creating ca$h grabs.

No.
If the boxes don't sell ZOS will stop making them. That's business 101. And that's THE ONLY WAY we as players can get them removed : by NOT BUYING THEM.

Sure, we'll have people arguing that they HAD TO / WERE FORCED to buy them because they wanted THAT FANCY EXCLUSIVE THING in there. Well, no, nobody was forced, nobody had to, and the item is not something anyone NEEDED, it's something these people WANTED. I won't call them victims nor sympathize with them.

Dubhliam

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

This is not entirely true. Zos can start with the odd "Crown Crate" exclusive here and there. But if that doesn't work Zos is only going to go down the path of adding more and more only available in "Crown Crate" items, until that's the only new Crown Store items we'll see. New RNG items. These boxes are the cancer of games. Stop developing content in favor of creating ca$h grabs.

No.
If the boxes don't sell ZOS will stop making them. That's business 101. And that's THE ONLY WAY we as players can get them removed : by NOT BUYING THEM.

Sure, we'll have people arguing that they HAD TO / WERE FORCED to buy them because they wanted THAT FANCY EXCLUSIVE THING in there. Well, no, nobody was forced, nobody had to, and the item is not something anyone NEEDED, it's something these people WANTED. I won't call them victims nor sympathize with them.

Plenty of other mmo devs have ignored your business 101 and put more and more items behind RNG boxes until that's the bulk of the games "development".

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jeevin wrote: »

Plenty of other mmo devs have ignored your business 101 and put more and more items behind RNG boxes until that's the bulk of the games "development".

Because people HAVE BOUGHT the crates. Not because they haven't.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

This is not entirely true. Zos can start with the odd "Crown Crate" exclusive here and there. But if that doesn't work Zos is only going to go down the path of adding more and more only available in "Crown Crate" items, until that's the only new Crown Store items we'll see. New RNG items. These boxes are the cancer of games. Stop developing content in favor of creating ca$h grabs.

No.
If the boxes don't sell ZOS will stop making them. That's business 101. And that's THE ONLY WAY we as players can get them removed : by NOT BUYING THEM.

Sure, we'll have people arguing that they HAD TO / WERE FORCED to buy them because they wanted THAT FANCY EXCLUSIVE THING in there. Well, no, nobody was forced, nobody had to, and the item is not something anyone NEEDED, it's something these people WANTED. I won't call them victims nor sympathize with them.

That's business 101 for physical goods that have a continued cost of production and transportation that doesn't justify keeping them up for sale if no one is buying. It doesn't applies to digital goods.

The production cost for the boxes was already paid - the coding, that is - and their continued existence does not generate extra costs to ZOS.

If they take the boxes out, that "production cost" will be sunken cost. They won't get it back. They won't spend or make any extra money - but they wouldn't spend any extra anyway.

So the logical thing to do is not to take them away if people are not buying digital goods, but to make them more attractive to your costumers. By, of course, adding more stuff to it.

The only way the boxes continued existence could cause ZOS to lose money is if a considerably high number of players left the game because of them, which most likely isn't happening. Not buying them doesn't work on this case; they will just make them more and more attractive until people fell they have to buy them.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

The production cost for the boxes was already paid - the coding, that is - and their continued existence does not generate extra costs to ZOS.

If they take the boxes out, that "production cost" will be sunken cost. They won't get it back. They won't spend or make any extra money - but they wouldn't spend any extra anyway.

So the logical thing to do is not to take them away if people are not buying digital goods, but to make them more attractive to your costumers. By, of course, adding more stuff to it.

The only way the boxes continued existence could cause ZOS to lose money is if a considerably high number of players left the game because of them, which most likely isn't happening. Not buying them doesn't work on this case; they will just make them more and more attractive until people fell they have to buy them.

Coding the boxes costs nearly nothing. Registering a purchase, generating a random number, associate it to a loot table and unlocking some items is beginner level programming.

What is quite costly is to design and implement those nice "exclusive" costumes, pets, polymorphs, etc.

If those don't sell via the boxes, they're sunken costs, but you can still take them out of the box system and sell them directly.

You may have a point, but I believe you're wrong. I insist that the best way to get rid of those boxes is to not buy them. It will not cause more stuff but less stuff gated behind the boxes.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

The production cost for the boxes was already paid - the coding, that is - and their continued existence does not generate extra costs to ZOS.

If they take the boxes out, that "production cost" will be sunken cost. They won't get it back. They won't spend or make any extra money - but they wouldn't spend any extra anyway.

So the logical thing to do is not to take them away if people are not buying digital goods, but to make them more attractive to your costumers. By, of course, adding more stuff to it.

The only way the boxes continued existence could cause ZOS to lose money is if a considerably high number of players left the game because of them, which most likely isn't happening. Not buying them doesn't work on this case; they will just make them more and more attractive until people fell they have to buy them.

Coding the boxes costs nearly nothing. Registering a purchase, generating a random number, associate it to a loot table and unlocking some items is beginner level programming.

What is quite costly is to design and implement those nice "exclusive" costumes, pets, polymorphs, etc.

If those don't sell via the boxes, they're sunken costs, but you can still take them out of the box system and sell them directly.

You may have a point, but I believe you're wrong. I insist that the best way to get rid of those boxes is to not buy them. It will not cause more stuff but less stuff gated behind the boxes.

That's the case if their attempts to make the boxes more attractive are limited to adding more exclusive cosmetics to them.

But they could instead do what other companies did and add existing stuff that actually matter to them, like tempers and equipment. This is what I fear.

Ideally, IMO, the boxes would sell just enough. Not too much that will make them think it is a good idea to shift development focus to them, not too little they feel like they need to add relevant stuff to it.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

Plenty of other mmo devs have ignored your business 101 and put more and more items behind RNG boxes until that's the bulk of the games "development".

Because people HAVE BOUGHT the crates. Not because they haven't.

In agreement, the key point to remember is that a few people have bought the crates. Even if wildly unpopular with the masses, enough people can buy them to more than offset any revenue lost from the other people who do not buy them, or leave.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If the boxes don't sell ZOS will stop making them. That's business 101. And that's THE ONLY WAY we as players can get them removed : by NOT BUYING THEM.

Contrary to your thinking, the traditional model for these gamble bags means that a very small number of players generate a huge amount of revenue. This makes it almost impossible to "boycott" to the point where the company is not making any revenue from them. The very act of a boycott will likely bring enough attention to them to get one of those revenue generating players to notice them.

Further, this is correct:

Abeille wrote: »

The production cost for the boxes was already paid - the coding, that is - and their continued existence does not generate extra costs to ZOS.

If they take the boxes out, that "production cost" will be sunken cost. They won't get it back. They won't spend or make any extra money - but they wouldn't spend any extra anyway.

Pretty much the only way that a Studio will not bring in revenue from these digital gamble boxes is to not offer them for sale. This is why ZOS is going to release them in November. Anything else will be revenue loss for them, and if they have already put in development time (which is likely), then it will be an operating loss.

If ZOS goes back on this, it will be a big thing. A Big Thing. Other than "conscience", there is no reason for them not to go ahead with Crown Crates.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

What is quite costly is to design and implement those nice "exclusive" costumes, pets, polymorphs, etc.

If those don't sell via the boxes, they're sunken costs, but you can still take them out of the box system and sell them directly.

You may have a point, but I believe you're wrong. I insist that the best way to get rid of those boxes is to not buy them. It will not cause more stuff but less stuff gated behind the boxes.

You are correct in that making new Crate contents will cost development resources. However, the return on investment for the gamble boxes is greater that the development expense to add new stuff, at least as an industry average. Otherwise, studios would not do it.

What bugs me the most about the gamble bags associated with MMO games is that they don't contribute to the game. In the end, they are a game unto themselves. The studio can say what they want about these boxes, but the fact is that the gamble boxes generate more revenue than the game itself. The game ends up being little more than something to attract people to the gamble boxes. One just has to look at the mobile gaming industry to know this.

The dark side for ZOS is that I want them to be a gaming studio. No matter what they say, if they have a successful gamble box, they have less need to be a gaming studio. Even if they say otherwise, as time progresses, they will eventually realize that they are a gamble box company, not a gaming company.

Graydon

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.

My god, you mean you don't have a 60 hour a week job that pulls in a six figure salary? The horror.

Graydon wrote: »

Also all the Crown Store items are junk.

Yeah, you might want to go shout that on the PVP boards a little louder, given the Imperial race is in the crown shop.

No kidding? So when I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO way way back a few years ago, I actually won the game?

Who knew?? Awesomeness! Yes 4 P2W!

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

So I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.

Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.

I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.

It's because we have the amazing power to remember past events, and extrapolate patterns of behavior. It's a terrifying power, but one we learn to live with.

yup... pattern recognition... us humans are really good at it, a survival mechanism. in fact we are so good at it that we see patterns where there are none.

Nice, one week going and you finally said something I can agree with... So that agree is from me btw (incase you didn't put that together ).

well, thank you

the bit about seeing patterns where there are none is a major part of the survival mechanism - a false positive is better than missing an event - those shadows under that tree look like it could be a tiger, best get away from here.

Indeed, it a is a biological and instinctual imperative to recognize patterns everywhere that has kept us alive and thriving to this point. (Although when getting into quantum mechanics we have to throw that all out the window.)

Now it has led to quite a large underground industry of conspiracy theorists (can't say they are right or wrong, cause who wants to really do all that leg work) but I basically break it down to this = is it out of this world to think rich and powerful people work together using political systems they helped create to maintain said wealth and power?

Anyways, kind of an aside to the lockbox topic but worth pointing out to any human.

Edit: Deja Vous is something that occurs when our minds are recognizing a succession of patterns we have seen occur before, ourselves. Which is what I get when discussing lockboxes in a video game.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

• I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.
• It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.
• My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.
• I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.
• Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.
• You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

@Recremen "The Elder Scones" sounds like either the most epic and mythic baked delicacy or the name the people who work at the bakery's counter give to those products that are left in the depths of the fridge for days

Seratopia

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

bareheiny wrote: »

DCUO has these. Some folk love them, and drop insane amounts of cash to get the exclusive aura they're chasing....other's hate them.

I don't like them personally....they smell like a cash grab.

I'll admit my SO and I must of spent almost $200 getting that smoke aura for at least one of us. But at least in DCUO you could trade the auras you didn't want or list them in the broker unlike the items purchased in eso.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

@Recremen "The Elder Scones" sounds like either the most epic and mythic baked delicacy or the name the people who work at the bakery's counter give to those products that are left in the depths of the fridge for days

I like the first one, it sounds more appetizing.