What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

You would need to address and/or justify

• The use of exclusive items to incentivize gambling
• The use of gambling as a means of generating revenue
• The impact that an accessory gambling exposure has on populations that otherwise don't seek out gambling
• The lowered ability of fans to monetarily support the game due to merchandise being locked behind a gambling wall
• The fact that spending an arbitrarily-high amount of money gambling does not guarantee a reward, and how this is a betrayal of the typical client/service provider model

(The "blue sky" discussion wasn't with me).

Nope, I don't need to address or justify anything. I'm just a customer. If I want to give time/effort/thought into something, I'll find something more important than fluff in a videogame.
Ultimately, all that matters to ZOS is whether I'll buy or not. And whether you will buy or not. You can give as much thought as you want to the rest, they don't HAVE to take it into consideration.
And ultimately, if that is such a big matter to you and you think they're being truly unethical, then you MUST leave. That's the only consistent thing to do. You play, you support. I'm quite confident you'll stay around.

runagate

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Kemono wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

Do you have a link to this @runagate ?

Crown crates @ 2:17:10
https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/87162133

btw @runagate was probably sarcastic.

Maybe "philosophy" is not really logical* from player side, but on entire presentation nothing new or disturbing is never mentioned. Folks that read this very thread should know all those info allready
* "usefull consumables", cough, cough




I think that crates are not going to be avaible by patch 12. instead they probably add them in December -with "New Life Festival" perhaps?

I can see where you might have thought I was being sarcastic, but I was not. I voted long before knowing any detail beyond "this is a way to get retired items." The first details of this disabused me of that naïve opinion and it's clear at this point that it's a terrible, terrible idea. I've got 25 Hirelings. I certainly do not want to ever, ever pay real money for some potions or food in hopes of getting a mount. I've already given up on in-game RNG horrors, I'm certainly not spending money to have that experience.

arasysb14_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Cousin_Idirfa

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Just watched that clip from the panel where they talk about gambling crates.
"Do no harm" philosophy.
Or course it does us no harm that instead of spending 4000 crowns outright for the mount we want, we can spend 10,000 or 20,000 and still never get it.

It's also okay if "we have bad luck and get the same mount or the same costume over and over" because we can turn that into the new currency: crown gems. So "we can always be working toward that thing that we want...."

We can work toward it by spending more money.

This is insulting and disrespectful to the loyal player base, especially the players that already purchase the collectibles such as myself.
It's a bag-over-the-head, punch-in-the-face insult.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

The baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

You're not pedantic, you're simply rude.

Anyway, as an answer to you and to all who have commented later in the thread : I'm sorry but I still think you're making a whole fuss about nothing. Don't like boxes ? don't buy them, bam, problem solved. (also not very hard to grasp).
You're free to think you're entitled to tell ZOS what to do and what not to do - you're wasting your time, but hey, that's your call.
I insist that not buying the boxes is still the best way to get rid of them. But even if enough or many people buy them (which is likely to be the case) it doesn't have to impact you.
I will never understand how people can be that bothered and frustrated about not being able to buy something non-essential.

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation). If it gets there with ESO, it will be soon enough to rage, quit or both over it.

But you're free to see everything negative.

No, the problem isn't solved by just not buying the crates, the crates are fundamentally indecent. Your rationale lacks any kind of perspective taking, understanding of economics, or logical follow-through. Repeating "don't buy them" over and over doesn't lend any kind of rhetorical weight to your position. You would need to address and/or justify

• The use of exclusive items to incentivize gambling
• The use of gambling as a means of generating revenue
• The impact that an accessory gambling exposure has on populations that otherwise don't seek out gambling
• The lowered ability of fans to monetarily support the game due to merchandise being locked behind a gambling wall
• The fact that spending an arbitrarily-high amount of money gambling does not guarantee a reward, and how this is a betrayal of the typical client/service provider model

If you can't see how any of that is a problem, or think it can all be solved by just not buying the gambling boxes, then you lack some fundamental ability in perspective-taking or something, plain and simple. Also, I don't see everything negative, this is basically the only problem I have with the direction the game is going. More perspective-taking issues!

Finally, here, have a cyanometer.



It can be used to measure how blue the sky is at any given moment.

hmmm..... the cyanometer measures how blue the sky looks. but its air, mostly nitrogen and oxygen and a few other bits and pieces. its colourless. air has no colour. it looks blue because of the scattering of shorter wavelength photons - that even has a name - rayleigh scattering. yes it looks blue but that is an illusion. its colourless.

on the thread topic why should anyone here have to address or justify the topics you list? i have no problem with the use of the boxes. i doubt i will buy any but so what? there is no imperative for me, or anyone here, to justify them - that is a task for zos. and since we don't know, despite all the hysteria, how the thing is going to play out it all seems a bit redundant.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

You would need to address and/or justify

• The use of exclusive items to incentivize gambling
• The use of gambling as a means of generating revenue
• The impact that an accessory gambling exposure has on populations that otherwise don't seek out gambling
• The lowered ability of fans to monetarily support the game due to merchandise being locked behind a gambling wall
• The fact that spending an arbitrarily-high amount of money gambling does not guarantee a reward, and how this is a betrayal of the typical client/service provider model

(The "blue sky" discussion wasn't with me).

Nope, I don't need to address or justify anything. I'm just a customer. If I want to give time/effort/thought into something, I'll find something more important than fluff in a videogame.
Ultimately, all that matters to ZOS is whether I'll buy or not. And whether you will buy or not. You can give as much thought as you want to the rest, they don't HAVE to take it into consideration.
And ultimately, if that is such a big matter to you and you think they're being truly unethical, then you MUST leave. That's the only consistent thing to do. You play, you support. I'm quite confident you'll stay around.

My bad about the cyanometer, I get all y'all with the same icon and _ESO name confused.

I didn't mean there was some compulsion for you to justify those things, only that your argument that we can just "not buy them" is invalid if you fail to address them.

And no, that's a slippery slope, I don't need to leave over one unethical thing. If I left over a single ethical issue then I'd never be able to buy anything from anyone.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

The baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

You're not pedantic, you're simply rude.

Anyway, as an answer to you and to all who have commented later in the thread : I'm sorry but I still think you're making a whole fuss about nothing. Don't like boxes ? don't buy them, bam, problem solved. (also not very hard to grasp).
You're free to think you're entitled to tell ZOS what to do and what not to do - you're wasting your time, but hey, that's your call.
I insist that not buying the boxes is still the best way to get rid of them. But even if enough or many people buy them (which is likely to be the case) it doesn't have to impact you.
I will never understand how people can be that bothered and frustrated about not being able to buy something non-essential.

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation). If it gets there with ESO, it will be soon enough to rage, quit or both over it.

But you're free to see everything negative.

No, the problem isn't solved by just not buying the crates, the crates are fundamentally indecent. Your rationale lacks any kind of perspective taking, understanding of economics, or logical follow-through. Repeating "don't buy them" over and over doesn't lend any kind of rhetorical weight to your position. You would need to address and/or justify

• The use of exclusive items to incentivize gambling
• The use of gambling as a means of generating revenue
• The impact that an accessory gambling exposure has on populations that otherwise don't seek out gambling
• The lowered ability of fans to monetarily support the game due to merchandise being locked behind a gambling wall
• The fact that spending an arbitrarily-high amount of money gambling does not guarantee a reward, and how this is a betrayal of the typical client/service provider model

If you can't see how any of that is a problem, or think it can all be solved by just not buying the gambling boxes, then you lack some fundamental ability in perspective-taking or something, plain and simple. Also, I don't see everything negative, this is basically the only problem I have with the direction the game is going. More perspective-taking issues!

Finally, here, have a cyanometer.



It can be used to measure how blue the sky is at any given moment.

hmmm..... the cyanometer measures how blue the sky looks. but its air, mostly nitrogen and oxygen and a few other bits and pieces. its colourless. air has no colour. it looks blue because of the scattering of shorter wavelength photons - that even has a name - rayleigh scattering. yes it looks blue but that is an illusion. its colourless.

on the thread topic why should anyone here have to address or justify the topics you list? i have no problem with the use of the boxes. i doubt i will buy any but so what? there is no imperative for me, or anyone here, to justify them - that is a task for zos. and since we don't know, despite all the hysteria, how the thing is going to play out it all seems a bit redundant.

It's not an illusion, it is literally light being scattered. It is a measurable physical phenomenon. It isn't some magic mind-light, it is physical light. As I originally said, you can try to define color strictly in terms of what a substance reflects as opposed to refracts. but it is a completely pointless designation in terms of a typical human's experience.

You misunderstand, I was saying what they would need to do in order for their "just don't buy them" argument to be valid. I'm not saying anyone here must answer those points, but if you can't address them then it's not actually as simple as "not buying the boxes".

SorataArisugawa

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I was wondering if housing & decoration would become part of crown store since RNG boxes were announced, now I got my answer.

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

So it is probably safe to assume there will be limited time decoration offers, which will be included in RNG boxes as well..

Maybe that are some kind of storing places for items and thats why they are in the shop. Just gessing...

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Kemono wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

Do you have a link to this @runagate ?

Crown crates @ 2:17:10
https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/87162133

btw @runagate was probably sarcastic.

Maybe "philosophy" is not really logical* from player side, but on entire presentation nothing new or disturbing is never mentioned. Folks that read this very thread should know all those info allready
* "usefull consumables", cough, cough




I think that crates are not going to be avaible by patch 12. instead they probably add them in December -with "New Life Festival" perhaps?

My favorite line here is "do no harm" yet these muppets are happy to try to fleece hundreds of dollars off of players who are trying to get those "exclusive rare mounts". Morals @ZOS.

JKith

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I don't like the addition of Gambling that lockboxes will bring... i see it as an exploitation and a loss of integrity from the game makers.

I have no problem with having to buy cosmetic items and ZOS developing the store to make money, which is needed in a non-subscription game, but I respectfully submit you need to know what you are buying,.. like a store... to my eyes they are inviting in problems, taking advantage of those that desire to have particular items by forcing a repeat purchase while being cheated by the RNG.....

Some say, "just don't buy them",..and that's fine,..but people are presented with the decision and have to make a conscious effort to ignore it, which pollutes the created virtual environment...

Gambling is fine in a casino environment and should stay in an area where there is only gambling.. and genuine store purchases shouldn't stoop to that level.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

If someone is willing to throw "hundreds of dollars" for a rare set of pixels, more power to them. It's not my place to judge them for spending the money on it, nor is it my place to try and impose my values on ZoS as a company.

Personally I wouldn't spend tens of nickels, on them - but that's just me.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Kemono wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

Do you have a link to this @runagate ?

Crown crates @ 2:17:10
https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/87162133

btw @runagate was probably sarcastic.

Maybe "philosophy" is not really logical* from player side, but on entire presentation nothing new or disturbing is never mentioned. Folks that read this very thread should know all those info allready
* "usefull consumables", cough, cough




I think that crates are not going to be avaible by patch 12. instead they probably add them in December -with "New Life Festival" perhaps?

Thanks, I actually found the video you were referencing earlier and watched it. It just sticks in my craw that "exclusive mounts" meaning, only attainable via the Gambling Box is coming. My opinion hasn't changed on this. It sucks exactly as much as I've thought it would the moment I hear Gambling Boxes...

But yeah, thank you for the response.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

Cousin_Idirfa

No, don't ever add these into the game.

They really don't want to hear from the players on this subject.

It was funny in the clip from the PAX West panel where they discuss these gambling crates, as soon as the twitch chat starts to question why there will be new collectibles (not just the ones previously on the market) available exclusively in these crates, the moderator starts a mud crab giveaway, and got the twitch chat chanting "Crabs!".

They don't have to address our concerns. That's true. At least we voiced them.

Apparently, there are some things that they do want feedback on. I wonder what's in those surveys that ZOS is having players take at PAX for the chance to win an exclusive console.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

Now that is truly unfair. We've been BEGGING for months to get this horrible light removed.
If some people want to pay to get it back : fine. But ZOS removed it PER OUR REQUEST.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

It's also okay if "we have bad luck and get the same mount or the same costume over and over" because we can turn that into the new currency: crown gems. So "we can always be working toward that thing that we want...."

We can work toward it by spending more money.

This is insulting and disrespectful to the loyal player base, especially the players that already purchase the collectibles such as myself.
It's a bag-over-the-head, punch-in-the-face insult.

And did you catch how they're trying to make it more palatable--'and when you open the Crown Crate you get to deal with Pacrooti! Everybody likes Pacrooti!'

...yeah I think his popularity is going to take a hit after this. >.>

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Really? We're gonna throw Pacrooti into this? Oh come on...he was a good guy, now I have to hate him.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

That is more than just customization and convenience.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

It's also okay if "we have bad luck and get the same mount or the same costume over and over" because we can turn that into the new currency: crown gems. So "we can always be working toward that thing that we want...."

We can work toward it by spending more money.

This is insulting and disrespectful to the loyal player base, especially the players that already purchase the collectibles such as myself.
It's a bag-over-the-head, punch-in-the-face insult.

And did you catch how they're trying to make it more palatable--'and when you open the Crown Crate you get to deal with Pacrooti! Everybody likes Pacrooti!'

...yeah I think his popularity is going to take a hit after this. >.>

No! They had BETTER NOT... Pacrooti was my favorite hireling by far and had also given me hope that some day, some how, we would finally have a Monk class.

This is really, really, REALLY starting to tick me off even more now.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

*sigh* I would say that I'm surprised. But no. No, I'm not surprised at all. We all saw this coming, it's just taking a lot sooner than the "you all are worrying over nothing" crowd expected. They haven't even put them in the base game yet and already...

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

*sigh* I would say that I'm surprised. But no. No, I'm not surprised at all. We all saw this coming, it's just taking a lot sooner than the "you all are worrying over nothing" crowd expected. They haven't even put them in the base game yet and already...

Yes indeed. Eventually all new cosmetic items will be obtained the RNG way. No harm done.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I think this is the start of there eventual demise..They need the revenue so hence the gambling BUT there pissing off alot of there fan base day after day untill they begin to just try to grab more and more money off customers till they have to rely on the whales ( being rich ppl blindly throwing money at them ) till they dry up and the game dies !! If they keep making stupid mistakes and not listening to there fan base and chosing pure greed over them there going to lose and lose till they cant make money because nobodys stupid enough to put up with there BULLSH.T !!

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

They really are... and we're watching it happen, and yelling at them not to, and yet they are just forging ahead to this game's eventual downfall. *sigh*

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

They really are... and we're watching it happen, and yelling at them not to, and yet they are just forging ahead to this game's eventual downfall. *sigh*

They wanna burn it? Let ''em. If the only way we get anywhere is voting with our wallet fine.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Well datamining as shown me why they removed perma magelight. They will be selling "Aura's" via mementos that will give us back effects like mage light. I'm losing respect for this game more and more every day....

Now that is truly unfair. We've been BEGGING for months to get this horrible light removed.
If some people want to pay to get it back : fine. But ZOS removed it PER OUR REQUEST.

If they were doing it as a public service then it would have been a toggle. Something being removed because some people wanted it is just coincidence, since obviously it was part of a plan to sell Aura's...

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

They really don't want to hear from the players on this subject.

It was funny in the clip from the PAX West panel where they discuss these gambling crates, as soon as the twitch chat starts to question why there will be new collectibles (not just the ones previously on the market) available exclusively in these crates, the moderator starts a mud crab giveaway, and got the twitch chat chanting "Crabs!".

They don't have to address our concerns. That's true. At least we voiced them.

Apparently, there are some things that they do want feedback on. I wonder what's in those surveys that ZOS is having players take at PAX for the chance to win an exclusive console.

Yeah I watched that and laughed my behind off at how blatant that was. Twitch was starting to blow up with variations of "Don't add lockboxes" then they said "Type Mudcrad" and wiped Twtch chat clean.

It also made me cry as to how easy it is to derail us...

Edit: It was also pretty easy to see where /lurk falls on this issue when his voice dried up like the Gobi Desert the moment they started talking about Crown Boxes, the lie of excitement doesn't sit well with him, someone off screen had to pass him a water bottle with a "Crown Boxes are Great" label on it.

MBite

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

They really don't want to hear from the players on this subject.

It was funny in the clip from the PAX West panel where they discuss these gambling crates, as soon as the twitch chat starts to question why there will be new collectibles (not just the ones previously on the market) available exclusively in these crates, the moderator starts a mud crab giveaway, and got the twitch chat chanting "Crabs!".

They don't have to address our concerns. That's true. At least we voiced them.

Apparently, there are some things that they do want feedback on. I wonder what's in those surveys that ZOS is having players take at PAX for the chance to win an exclusive console.

Yeah I watched that and laughed my behind off at how blatant that was. Twitch was starting to blow up with variations of "Don't add lockboxes" then they said "Type Mudcrad" and wiped Twtch chat clean.

It also made me cry as to how easy it is to derail us...

Edit: It was also pretty easy to see where /lurk falls on this issue when his voice dried up like the Gobi Desert the moment they started talking about Crown Boxes, the lie of excitement doesn't sit well with him, someone off screen had to pass him a water bottle with a "Crown Boxes are Great" label on it.

Is there any way to ask them questions about crownboxes or are they denying everything and saying that we are only "scared"?

To be honest, this is very funny and sad future for crown store.

pirate3

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lockboxes are unacceptable to me. I haven't been actively playing for a while, but always kept an interest in the game believing I would eventually return to it. Now the game feels tainted and I have no desire to come back. This is a hostile action by the developers and there is only one way to respond.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

I'm not tryin to derail the thread here but how is Imperial race statistically better? I seriously have no idea and would appreciate some edification on that point please (I have heard this mentioned before though... Quite a while ago).

@nimander99, sorry, I didn't see this until today. It's the +health and +stam combo. You get large buffs to both stats. At launch the meta was heavy magicka, so it wasn't that impressive, and by the time stamina became really viable for endgame content, the meta preference had shifted towards regeneration for sustain rather than just throwing the largest possible pool around. But, now, with the nerfs to regen in update 11, those pool sizes look much more appealing.

Imperials always made for fantastic tanks, and are arguably the best tank race in the game. They're also a top tier stamina build pick.

In fairness, I never really bought into them being straight up Pay to Win at launch, but as the game has evolved, they've become a lot more potent than they were originally. They still have the largest max stat boost pool (at +22%) of any race.

The +1% gold is a joke (and Ironically, they probably should have gotten the +AP, with the Bretons getting the +gold, even though wealth is actually an Imperial trait in the lore). Red Diamond has never really been useful. The increased sword and board XP is nice when you're rolling a new one as a tank, but nothing to write home about. The insanity with Imperials has always simply been their max stat boosts.

ManwithBeard9

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

MBite wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Cousin_Idirfa wrote: »

They really don't want to hear from the players on this subject.

It was funny in the clip from the PAX West panel where they discuss these gambling crates, as soon as the twitch chat starts to question why there will be new collectibles (not just the ones previously on the market) available exclusively in these crates, the moderator starts a mud crab giveaway, and got the twitch chat chanting "Crabs!".

They don't have to address our concerns. That's true. At least we voiced them.

Apparently, there are some things that they do want feedback on. I wonder what's in those surveys that ZOS is having players take at PAX for the chance to win an exclusive console.

Yeah I watched that and laughed my behind off at how blatant that was. Twitch was starting to blow up with variations of "Don't add lockboxes" then they said "Type Mudcrad" and wiped Twtch chat clean.

It also made me cry as to how easy it is to derail us...

Edit: It was also pretty easy to see where /lurk falls on this issue when his voice dried up like the Gobi Desert the moment they started talking about Crown Boxes, the lie of excitement doesn't sit well with him, someone off screen had to pass him a water bottle with a "Crown Boxes are Great" label on it.

Is there any way to ask them questions about crownboxes or are they denying everything and saying that we are only "scared"?

To be honest, this is very funny and sad future for crown store.

They did answer questions directly relating to the Crown Crates. They didnt avoid them, they didnt slap the mic out of someones hand when they mentioned it. They answered them honestly and completely. They'll even be on PTS before update 12 goes live.