What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

jedtb16_ESO · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

nimander99 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

C'mon guys, we can hit 100 pages! Almost terh

Recremen · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

jedtb16_ESO · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

nimander99 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

Anyhooser, how bout them Gambling Boxes neh?

GhostwalkerLD · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

It's good to see that more people are voting. Let's keep this thread going at least until 100 pages. Well over 1000 players have voted, and frankly I don't care that ZOS is just going to ignore them, we can at least say that we voiced our objections over these stupid lockboxes.

jedtb16_ESO · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

Anyhooser, how bout them Gambling Boxes neh?

well... what about them?

watched the twitch stream from pax earlier... a little was said about them. what i heard did not alarm me at all. what was there and what i read in the patch notes for the pts makes me think this game has a future.... others may not agree but so what?

Blackbird71 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

Ok, let's extend the analogy a bit. Let's say that I'm a regular customer for a particular bakery, as I greatly enjoy their fresh-baked goods. After some time, this baker begins offering little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies (think: any local store brand version of Oreos, etc.). The next time I walk into this bakery, the owner points at the new boxes and suggests I try a few. I politely decline, as I have no interest in them and find them unappealing, and so I opt to get one of my usual fresh pastries of choice. While I personally don't care for the boxes, some people enjoy them as a quick snack, and they seem to sell rather well among certain customers. This continues for a while; every time I come in, the little boxes of dry bits are there, and I keep passing them by for the deliciousness of fresh goodness. Except that after a few weeks, I notice that things have been changing. Each week, the boxes seem to take up more and more of the bakery's inventory and shelf space. Meanwhile, there seems to be more and more wrong with the fresh-baked selection: first everything is a bit burnt, then there is too much salt. Some days, certain pastries are completely unavailable, and a few favorite items seem to have disappeared from the menu completely. One time I even find a loaf of bread covered in mold. I ask the baker about this drop in quality, and he tells me, "Yes, I know, I've been meaning to do something about that; don't worry, I'll get to it soon. In the meantime, have you tried a cookie box?" I give him a puzzled look and continue on my way. I keep coming back for a while longer, but in the space of a few months, the quality of the "fresh" goods in the bakery as degraded so far as to be wholly inedible, and there is hardly anything to choose from anyway, as 90% of the shelf space is now taken up by the dreaded boxes. In disgust, I turn around and leave what used to be my favorite bakery, both saddened and angered at what it has become, and at the prospect that I will never again enjoy one of their delicious pastries, as they no longer exist in any recognizable form.

So I go about searching for a new bakery, and after some time I find one that I enjoy. It's not the same as my previous bakery was, as the offerings are different, but it is good, the food is fresh and delicious. Pretty soon, I become a regular patron, and a stop in at this new bakery is a part of my daily routine. This goes on for several months, but then one day I enter my new favorite bakery and there on the counter is a small display of the exact same little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies that my previous bakery carried.

What should I do? Those boxes destroyed the previous bakery I used to enjoy, and I am filled with dread at the prospect that the same will happen to my new favorite bakery. Now I have a few options: I could keep coming to this new bakery, and buying their fresh goods for as long as I continue to enjoy them, knowing that eventually I'll be hunting for another shop. Or I could cut to the chase, sever all ties with this bakery now and go find someplace new without waiting for this one to go bad. Or I could complain to the owner of the new bakery, and make my apprehension known, explain what happened to my last bakery and let him know that if he continues to carry those boxes that he will lose me as a customer at the first sign that he is neglecting or altering his other products. If I take this last option, it is only on the hope that if enough other customers do likewise, the baker will rethink his decision to offer the dreaded product, or at the very least will be very attentive and mindful of his main products.

No, I don't know for certain that this baker will let these boxes dominate his business the way the previous baker did, but all the signs I have seen so far are pointing to the same chain of events occurring. And so, knowing that I really enjoy this bakery's offerings in their current state, while also not being one to sit quietly and just accept what I'm given, and not really being interested in having to find yet another bakery, I take this last option. I'm not telling the baker how to make his recipes, nor am I telling him how to run his business, but I am most definitely telling him what I as a consumer am willing to accept and pay for. If I'm lucky, he'll listen to me, and I'll be able to continue my patronage, but if not, then it's off to another bakery.

What you and others are doing is akin to coming into the bakery while I am telling the baker what I am willing and not willing to buy, and then telling me to shut up because (according to you) as a consumer, I shouldn't be expressing my purchase needs, wants, and conditions to the baker who supplies them. You keep pointing at the fresh goods in the bakery and saying, "they're still here, you have no right to complain!" Well, that's just it; they are still here for now, but I know from experience how quickly that may change, and I want to prevent that before it happens rather than sit around and wait for it to come about. Oh, and back at the old bakery, even at the very end, there were people just like you, pointing at the burnt and moldy pastries and telling me, "they're still here, you have no right to complain! The baker said he'd get around to making better stuff eventually, so you should just keep buying these!" No thank you! As a consumer, I have every right to "complain," or as I see it, to voice my opinion before things get bad and hope that they get better because of it.

Now to sidetrack just a bit, let's set all of that aside for a moment and wind back to the previous analogy, "One Tamriel" is around the corner, and if that's not swapping my scones for blueberry muffins, I don't know what is. Some may like blueberry muffins, some may not, but either way, the almond scones will no longer be available.

nimander99 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

@Blackbird71 Great analogy, I read the entire story and thought it was spot on. You guys all should read it.

On your aside: I suppose you could look at OT as being a replacement but personally I don't think it will be like that. It's going to be just like all the Gold Zones except worldwide and that, imo, is great! Since this is, after all, an Elder Scrolls game and should have been this way from day one.

MornaBaine · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Blackbird71 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

Ok, let's extend the analogy a bit. Let's say that I'm a regular customer for a particular bakery, as I greatly enjoy their fresh-baked goods. After some time, this baker begins offering little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies (think: any local store brand version of Oreos, etc.). The next time I walk into this bakery, the owner points at the new boxes and suggests I try a few. I politely decline, as I have no interest in them and find them unappealing, and so I opt to get one of my usual fresh pastries of choice. While I personally don't care for the boxes, some people enjoy them as a quick snack, and they seem to sell rather well among certain customers. This continues for a while; every time I come in, the little boxes of dry bits are there, and I keep passing them by for the deliciousness of fresh goodness. Except that after a few weeks, I notice that things have been changing. Each week, the boxes seem to take up more and more of the bakery's inventory and shelf space. Meanwhile, there seems to be more and more wrong with the fresh-baked selection: first everything is a bit burnt, then there is too much salt. Some days, certain pastries are completely unavailable, and a few favorite items seem to have disappeared from the menu completely. One time I even find a loaf of bread covered in mold. I ask the baker about this drop in quality, and he tells me, "Yes, I know, I've been meaning to do something about that; don't worry, I'll get to it soon. In the meantime, have you tried a cookie box?" I give him a puzzled look and continue on my way. I keep coming back for a while longer, but in the space of a few months, the quality of the "fresh" goods in the bakery as degraded so far as to be wholly inedible, and there is hardly anything to choose from anyway, as 90% of the shelf space is now taken up by the dreaded boxes. In disgust, I turn around and leave what used to be my favorite bakery, both saddened and angered at what it has become, and at the prospect that I will never again enjoy one of their delicious pastries, as they no longer exist in any recognizable form.

So I go about searching for a new bakery, and after some time I find one that I enjoy. It's not the same as my previous bakery was, as the offerings are different, but it is good, the food is fresh and delicious. Pretty soon, I become a regular patron, and a stop in at this new bakery is a part of my daily routine. This goes on for several months, but then one day I enter my new favorite bakery and there on the counter is a small display of the exact same little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies that my previous bakery carried.

What should I do? Those boxes destroyed the previous bakery I used to enjoy, and I am filled with dread at the prospect that the same will happen to my new favorite bakery. Now I have a few options: I could keep coming to this new bakery, and buying their fresh goods for as long as I continue to enjoy them, knowing that eventually I'll be hunting for another shop. Or I could cut to the chase, sever all ties with this bakery now and go find someplace new without waiting for this one to go bad. Or I could complain to the owner of the new bakery, and make my apprehension known, explain what happened to my last bakery and let him know that if he continues to carry those boxes that he will lose me as a customer at the first sign that he is neglecting or altering his other products. If I take this last option, it is only on the hope that if enough other customers do likewise, the baker will rethink his decision to offer the dreaded product, or at the very least will be very attentive and mindful of his main products.

No, I don't know for certain that this baker will let these boxes dominate his business the way the previous baker did, but all the signs I have seen so far are pointing to the same chain of events occurring. And so, knowing that I really enjoy this bakery's offerings in their current state, while also not being one to sit quietly and just accept what I'm given, and not really being interested in having to find yet another bakery, I take this last option. I'm not telling the baker how to make his recipes, nor am I telling him how to run his business, but I am most definitely telling him what I as a consumer am willing to accept and pay for. If I'm lucky, he'll listen to me, and I'll be able to continue my patronage, but if not, then it's off to another bakery.

What you and others are doing is akin to coming into the bakery while I am telling the baker what I am willing and not willing to buy, and then telling me to shut up because (according to you) as a consumer, I shouldn't be expressing my purchase needs, wants, and conditions to the baker who supplies them. You keep pointing at the fresh goods in the bakery and saying, "they're still here, you have no right to complain!" Well, that's just it; they are still here for now, but I know from experience how quickly that may change, and I want to prevent that before it happens rather than sit around and wait for it to come about. Oh, and back at the old bakery, even at the very end, there were people just like you, pointing at the burnt and moldy pastries and telling me, "they're still here, you have no right to complain! The baker said he'd get around to making better stuff eventually, so you should just keep buying these!" No thank you! As a consumer, I have every right to "complain," or as I see it, to voice my opinion before things get bad and hope that they get better because of it.

Now to sidetrack just a bit, let's set all of that aside for a moment and wind back to the previous analogy, "One Tamriel" is around the corner, and if that's not swapping my scones for blueberry muffins, I don't know what is. Some may like blueberry muffins, some may not, but either way, the almond scones will no longer be available.

THAT was beautifully written. Bravo.

Bouldercleave · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Blackbird71 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

Ok, let's extend the analogy a bit. Let's say that I'm a regular customer for a particular bakery, as I greatly enjoy their fresh-baked goods. After some time, this baker begins offering little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies (think: any local store brand version of Oreos, etc.). The next time I walk into this bakery, the owner points at the new boxes and suggests I try a few. I politely decline, as I have no interest in them and find them unappealing, and so I opt to get one of my usual fresh pastries of choice. While I personally don't care for the boxes, some people enjoy them as a quick snack, and they seem to sell rather well among certain customers. This continues for a while; every time I come in, the little boxes of dry bits are there, and I keep passing them by for the deliciousness of fresh goodness. Except that after a few weeks, I notice that things have been changing. Each week, the boxes seem to take up more and more of the bakery's inventory and shelf space. Meanwhile, there seems to be more and more wrong with the fresh-baked selection: first everything is a bit burnt, then there is too much salt. Some days, certain pastries are completely unavailable, and a few favorite items seem to have disappeared from the menu completely. One time I even find a loaf of bread covered in mold. I ask the baker about this drop in quality, and he tells me, "Yes, I know, I've been meaning to do something about that; don't worry, I'll get to it soon. In the meantime, have you tried a cookie box?" I give him a puzzled look and continue on my way. I keep coming back for a while longer, but in the space of a few months, the quality of the "fresh" goods in the bakery as degraded so far as to be wholly inedible, and there is hardly anything to choose from anyway, as 90% of the shelf space is now taken up by the dreaded boxes. In disgust, I turn around and leave what used to be my favorite bakery, both saddened and angered at what it has become, and at the prospect that I will never again enjoy one of their delicious pastries, as they no longer exist in any recognizable form.

So I go about searching for a new bakery, and after some time I find one that I enjoy. It's not the same as my previous bakery was, as the offerings are different, but it is good, the food is fresh and delicious. Pretty soon, I become a regular patron, and a stop in at this new bakery is a part of my daily routine. This goes on for several months, but then one day I enter my new favorite bakery and there on the counter is a small display of the exact same little boxes of assorted, mass-produced, dry, stale cookies that my previous bakery carried.

What should I do? Those boxes destroyed the previous bakery I used to enjoy, and I am filled with dread at the prospect that the same will happen to my new favorite bakery. Now I have a few options: I could keep coming to this new bakery, and buying their fresh goods for as long as I continue to enjoy them, knowing that eventually I'll be hunting for another shop. Or I could cut to the chase, sever all ties with this bakery now and go find someplace new without waiting for this one to go bad. Or I could complain to the owner of the new bakery, and make my apprehension known, explain what happened to my last bakery and let him know that if he continues to carry those boxes that he will lose me as a customer at the first sign that he is neglecting or altering his other products. If I take this last option, it is only on the hope that if enough other customers do likewise, the baker will rethink his decision to offer the dreaded product, or at the very least will be very attentive and mindful of his main products.

No, I don't know for certain that this baker will let these boxes dominate his business the way the previous baker did, but all the signs I have seen so far are pointing to the same chain of events occurring. And so, knowing that I really enjoy this bakery's offerings in their current state, while also not being one to sit quietly and just accept what I'm given, and not really being interested in having to find yet another bakery, I take this last option. I'm not telling the baker how to make his recipes, nor am I telling him how to run his business, but I am most definitely telling him what I as a consumer am willing to accept and pay for. If I'm lucky, he'll listen to me, and I'll be able to continue my patronage, but if not, then it's off to another bakery.

What you and others are doing is akin to coming into the bakery while I am telling the baker what I am willing and not willing to buy, and then telling me to shut up because (according to you) as a consumer, I shouldn't be expressing my purchase needs, wants, and conditions to the baker who supplies them. You keep pointing at the fresh goods in the bakery and saying, "they're still here, you have no right to complain!" Well, that's just it; they are still here for now, but I know from experience how quickly that may change, and I want to prevent that before it happens rather than sit around and wait for it to come about. Oh, and back at the old bakery, even at the very end, there were people just like you, pointing at the burnt and moldy pastries and telling me, "they're still here, you have no right to complain! The baker said he'd get around to making better stuff eventually, so you should just keep buying these!" No thank you! As a consumer, I have every right to "complain," or as I see it, to voice my opinion before things get bad and hope that they get better because of it.

Now to sidetrack just a bit, let's set all of that aside for a moment and wind back to the previous analogy, "One Tamriel" is around the corner, and if that's not swapping my scones for blueberry muffins, I don't know what is. Some may like blueberry muffins, some may not, but either way, the almond scones will no longer be available.

Very well written and 100% true. The main difference is not everyone shares your approach to the situation. While some on here have simply voiced their discord and concerns, others have and continue to berate, degrade, and vilify the "baker" as if he was the anti-Christ himself.

If everyone handled themselves in the same appropriate, intelligent, and well mannered terms as your beautifully well written analogy, then we wouldn't have almost 100 pages of.... well, what we have here.

oxxalejandroxxo · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

MMORPG.com just got into the lockbox mix that's over here. The answer over there? Stop complaining.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/11120/Five-Things-MMO-Gamers-Should-Stop-Complaining-About.html

Started a bit of a storm over there also. Advertising budget?

More importantly, ESO's Crown Crates are not the kinda RNG boxes they described that they think we should tolerate. Crown Crates would contain EXCLUSIVE stuff that are NOT accessible on the shelves of Crown Store.

starkerealm · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Graydon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.

My god, you mean you don't have a 60 hour a week job that pulls in a six figure salary? The horror.

Graydon wrote: »

Also all the Crown Store items are junk.

Yeah, you might want to go shout that on the PVP boards a little louder, given the Imperial race is in the crown shop.

No kidding? So when I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO way way back a few years ago, I actually won the game?

Who knew?? Awesomeness! Yes 4 P2W!

Yep, you can leave, you won all the things. Or, you know, you paid real money for a statistical advantage over other players, which is the actual definition for P2W. You could look it up, if you were so inclined.

nimander99 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.

My god, you mean you don't have a 60 hour a week job that pulls in a six figure salary? The horror.

Graydon wrote: »

Also all the Crown Store items are junk.

Yeah, you might want to go shout that on the PVP boards a little louder, given the Imperial race is in the crown shop.

No kidding? So when I purchased the Imperial Edition of ESO way way back a few years ago, I actually won the game?

Who knew?? Awesomeness! Yes 4 P2W!

Yep, you can leave, you won all the things. Or, you know, you paid real money for a statistical advantage over other players, which is the actual definition for P2W. You could look it up, if you were so inclined.

I'm not tryin to derail the thread here but how is Imperial race statistically better? I seriously have no idea and would appreciate some edification on that point please (I have heard this mentioned before though... Quite a while ago).

Easily_Lost · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I don't know if this has been posted yet.

I just got done reading the PTS Patch Notes and did not read anything about Crown Crates. So maybe they will not be adding it in this this update.

JimT722 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

hagermanj wrote: »

I don't know if this has been posted yet.

I just got done reading the PTS Patch Notes and did not read anything about Crown Crates. So maybe they will not be adding it in this this update.

They will, but I doubt it will be on the pts. They likely won't because if the chance is changed from pts to live people will be upset. They will likely keep them a mystery so you don't know how much they are ripping you off for.

Why couldn't they just avoid this bs and sell the stuff on the store?

Recremen · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

What if I told you that the sky... was made of air???? I literally addressed your point in my comment which you quoted. Additionally, the midnight sky is blue, a very dark shade of blue, but scattered starlight does indeed lend it a blue hue. You can say that it's not blue "all the time", much how like a tomato isn't red all the time, depending on its ripeness, but arguing that it's not blue is another point of semantic nonsense that you're not going to get any traction with. :-p

Anyway, how long do you think before exclusive dye colors show up in the gambling boxes?

Esquire1980g_ESO · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

What if I told you that the sky... was made of air???? I literally addressed your point in my comment which you quoted. Additionally, the midnight sky is blue, a very dark shade of blue, but scattered starlight does indeed lend it a blue hue. You can say that it's not blue "all the time", much how like a tomato isn't red all the time, depending on its ripeness, but arguing that it's not blue is another point of semantic nonsense that you're not going to get any traction with. :-p

Anyway, how long do you think before exclusive dye colors show up in the gambling boxes?

Not long. Along with purple/gold crafting upgrades. After all, they are "consumables" also and it was clearly stated "consumables" would be in those boxes.

I wondered why the drop rate for gold crafting had been ninja nerfed last download.

Kemono · September 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

From the newest data mining

these are
1x crown crates
4x Crown crates
15x Crown crates
Food Crate
potion Crate

http://elderscrolls.net/2016/09/02/17765-tes-online-budushhee-kronnogo-magazina-patch-2-6-0/

Very strange quantities.
i mean - i was thinking its going to be like 1-5-10
15 bags in one bundle mean that probably drop rates are going to be atrocious -btw general rule when purchasing loot crates in MMO is ALWAYS getting at bigest pack, lower you go more each single bag gonna cost you. 15 crates could possibly cost something like ~4000 crowns
its also interesting how food/potion crates are going to be related to Crown Crates?
Are they going to be offered separately?
Or they going to be inside Crown Crates? >
like "Buy 1 crown crate - get one "consumable crate" and chance for cosmetic drop"

jedtb16_ESO · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

If I have a standing order with a baker for two dozen almond scones each day, and one day he decides to stop making almond scones, and without consulting me instead gives me blueberry muffins when I show up for my order, I will definitely complain, demand a refund, and if necessary go to another bakery. That is my right as a consumer.
.../...
Now, if before changing his menu, the baker lets me know that he's considering discontinuing the almond scones, and I really enjoy his almond scones, I may take time to try to reason with the baker and convince him to keep making the scones.
.../...
This is representative of what you see in this thread and other places; ZOS has announced a planned change, and invested consumers are attempting to convince ZOS that they would prefer to continue with the game that they paid for, rather than to have it change into something that they didn't. .../...

Except that in this case, the baker is not discontinuing almond scones. He simply put another cake on his offer - which you don't have to buy and which doesn't impact your almond scones. Because you dislike that other cake, you think it's unhealthy, too expensive, the baker is too profit-oriented, etc. And because you're scared that this other cake will be so successful that your almonds will be discontinued (but we're not there yet and might never get there).
The baker will be interested in your feedback regarding this other cake. But don't start telling him how to bake them (you don't know his particular recipe), or how to make money (you know nothing of his cost structure). It's your favourite bakery but it doesn't make it your bakery.
For now our almond scones are NOT impacted. If you think the direction the baker is heading is bad, you might already look for another baker - that's your right. I prefer to enjoy the almond scones for as long as they're there. IF one day they're impacted or changed, I might change bakeries too, but for now it's fine for me. But I don't tell the baker how to bake nor how to run his business.

You're kind of missing some things in this analogy. For instance, the baker is still selling almond scones, but all the best scones are going inside an undetermined number of boxes. Also going inside the boxes, in undetermined amounts, are packs of 27 birthday candles, packages of paper plates, plastic forks, and sugar packets (all of which you can buy normally). All the boxes are guarantees to have one of those accessory items that you don't actually want or need (and can buy straight-up anyway), but the box also has a chance of containing a really good almond scone. Baker spends hours on these really special scones, you see, and they are of an indisputably higher quality than the ones that normally get sold. But the baker says you have to play the box game to get a chance at the good scones.

Now, this is not what your previous arrangement was, and it is super obvious to everyone that nobody actually wants to play the box game. But this baker is the only one that even sells almond scones, and the next single-serving scone isn't going to come out for years so it's pretty much this or nothing. Baker's got a copyright on scones, you see.

Under those circumstances, you are entirely within your right to tell the baker not to do that. Baker doesn't need to comply, but you can't tell someone they can't tell someone something when someone is telling something to someone sometimes. Actions don't exist in a vacuum and customer feedback is important to running a business.

Now buy this box from me, it occasionally contains a lesson on perspective.

- You don't have to care about what's inside the boxes if you don't intend to buy them anyway (which you don't, do you ?)
- The "premium scones" won't necessarily be better quality - so far, noone has seen them and only the baker says so.
- Even in the "premium scones" are of better quality, that doesn't make the standard scones less tasty, does it ? I don't want to sound patronizing here, but if you stop enjoying what you have just because there's something better that you can't have, you might experience frustration more often than necessary.
- And yes, baker has a copyright on THOSE scones, but there are other bakers with other scones which are very tasty too. And even then, you can also try something else but scones for breakfast. Don't let your well-being depend upon one single supplier !
- In terms of feedback, companies want to know what you like and dislike in their products, and why. They're not interested in you telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
- If you're right by saying that "nobody wants to play the box game", then don't worry : they won't last long. Products that don't sell don't last. Unfortunately, I think you're wrong and many people will play the box game. Which is why the baker does them.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I do have to care about what's inside the boxes because the items inside them ought to be sold on the open market, not as an incentive to play the gambling box game.

It's incredibly dishonest to argue that the premium scones won't be better quality, everyone knows it's going to happen. Not a logically sound argument there, but it's like arguing that the sky ain't blue.

My regular scones are just fine, I like my regular scones. I buy so many regular scones, tell my friends about them, post pictures of them, and generally hype the scones. If the premium scones were on the normal market, I could do the same with those, and would love to do the same with those, and the baker wants me to do that with the premium scones, but I can only get a chance at them by playing with the gambling boxes. I can't stress enough that it's a CHANCE at getting them. No matter how much you spend, you are not ever guaranteed to get a premium scone. It's not about enjoying the regular scones less, it's about not having a reasonable avenue to enjoy the premium scones as well.

I have plenty of baked goods from other stores, but this baker has The Elder Scones, so no, not really an option.

Telling a company what you like and dislike is exactly equivalent to telling them what to do or not to do. You're not going to get any traction on this point, you are trying to play a semantics game that doesn't exist.

You are misapprehending what I'm saying about the gambling boxes. Just because nobody wants to play the gambling game doesn't mean that people won't play. I don't like the process of sending out resumes, but I do it because there's a chance that I'll get hired by a better company. There is sufficient incentive to try. The difference is, the baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

just being pedantic here.... the sky isn't blue

I mean if we really want to go for it, color can be seen as a property of an object, not just a mere qualia, and as such we should be able to make a reproducible determination of an object's color. Thus, the sky IS often blue, at least componentially, due to the fact that our atmosphere scatters more blue light than light of other colors. You can measure the blueness with various colorimetry techniques. Of course, some might argue that an object's color is only a function of what light it reflects, not refracts, but that's not an especially useful distinction when it comes to normal human experiences.

go outside at midnight......look up.

the sky is air.... it is colourless. what you see during the day, if it's not cloudy, are photons scattering off of nitrogen molecules in the air.

depending on where you live looking at a clear sky either very early morning or very late afternoon/evening the sky has an orange/red tinge... angle of refraction comes into play there - again from molecules in the air.

What if I told you that the sky... was made of air???? I literally addressed your point in my comment which you quoted. Additionally, the midnight sky is blue, a very dark shade of blue, but scattered starlight does indeed lend it a blue hue. You can say that it's not blue "all the time", much how like a tomato isn't red all the time, depending on its ripeness, but arguing that it's not blue is another point of semantic nonsense that you're not going to get any traction with. :-p

Anyway, how long do you think before exclusive dye colors show up in the gambling boxes?

if you live in the far north or south (not many people there though) during the summer the sky at night is white - in the winter it's black. air does not have a colour

dyes in crates? haven't a clue. and, if you are honest, neither have you.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

The baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

You're not pedantic, you're simply rude.

Anyway, as an answer to you and to all who have commented later in the thread : I'm sorry but I still think you're making a whole fuss about nothing. Don't like boxes ? don't buy them, bam, problem solved. (also not very hard to grasp).
You're free to think you're entitled to tell ZOS what to do and what not to do - you're wasting your time, but hey, that's your call.
I insist that not buying the boxes is still the best way to get rid of them. But even if enough or many people buy them (which is likely to be the case) it doesn't have to impact you.
I will never understand how people can be that bothered and frustrated about not being able to buy something non-essential.

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation). If it gets there with ESO, it will be soon enough to rage, quit or both over it.

But you're free to see everything negative.

runagate · September 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

JamilaRaj · September 2016

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation).

They have been selling advantages for cash since day 1, it did become only worse (markedly so) over time, and they do focus on the cash shop.
It is extrapolation based on this game, if an extrapolation at all.

nimander99 · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

Do you have a link to this @runagate ?

Kendaric · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

What did say there?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

But even if enough or many people buy them (which is likely to be the case) it doesn't have to impact you.
I will never understand how people can be that bothered and frustrated about not being able to buy something non-essential.

Is it so hard to understand that cosmetics are essential to some us?
How would you feel if they included, for example, dungeon access or whatever you may consider essential?

Edit: All we ask for is that every item that's intended for the crown crate, can be bought directly for crowns even if only for a limited time.

Kemono · September 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

nimander99 wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Wow, listening to the PAX presentation I'm shocked that the boxes implementation will be even worse than we thought.

Do you have a link to this @runagate ?

Crown crates @ 2:17:10
https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/87162133

btw @runagate was probably sarcastic.

Maybe "philosophy" is not really logical* from player side, but on entire presentation nothing new or disturbing is never mentioned. Folks that read this very thread should know all those info allready
* "usefull consumables", cough, cough

I think that crates are not going to be avaible by patch 12. instead they probably add them in December -with "New Life Festival" perhaps?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Kendaric wrote: »

Is it so hard to understand that cosmetics are essential to some us?
How would you feel if they included, for example, dungeon access or whatever you may consider essential?

Edit: All we ask for is that every item that's intended for the crown crate, can be bought directly for crowns even if only for a limited time.

It won't. They're monetizing you on the basis of the very argument that you are using : you want the stuff.
Is it so hard to understand that your own arguments work against you ?

(To answer your questions, I understand that this stuff is valuable to you, but essential ? no, I don't get that. To the point where it generates the level of frustration depicted in this thread ? no, sorry, I don't get that. And, yes, there is some stuff in the game that I cannot access because I don't play well enough, and I don't get mad over it. This.is.a.game. )

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JamilaRaj wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation).

They have been selling advantages for cash since day 1, it did become only worse (markedly so) over time, and they do focus on the cash shop.
It is extrapolation based on this game, if an extrapolation at all.

There's never been true P2W in the crown store. Since the B2P turn and the Crown Store, they delivered maybe 20 costumes-pets-fluff, and also 4 new zones, 4 new quest lines, 4 new dungeons, 1 new arena, etc etc.
They haven't been focusing on the crown store at all.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

It's good to see that more people are voting. Let's keep this thread going at least until 100 pages. Well over 1000 players have voted, and frankly I don't care that ZOS is just going to ignore them, we can at least say that we voiced our objections over these stupid lockboxes.

^This sounds good to me. I would be OVERJOYED to find this thread in, say, five years, and laugh 'Oh, I remember that, everyone was so worried and nothing ever came of it, silly us.' But if that doesn't turn out to be the case, I know that I for one sleep better knowing I tried to change something for the better and it didn't work, instead of doing nothing.

Recremen · September 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

The baker could just as easily not offer a gambling service. The baker, who really has no business offering a gambling service to begin with, can just sell their premium scones on the regular market. Bam, money made, problem solved. Not to be pedantic, but it shouldn't be that hard to grasp the concept.

You're not pedantic, you're simply rude.

Anyway, as an answer to you and to all who have commented later in the thread : I'm sorry but I still think you're making a whole fuss about nothing. Don't like boxes ? don't buy them, bam, problem solved. (also not very hard to grasp).
You're free to think you're entitled to tell ZOS what to do and what not to do - you're wasting your time, but hey, that's your call.
I insist that not buying the boxes is still the best way to get rid of them. But even if enough or many people buy them (which is likely to be the case) it doesn't have to impact you.
I will never understand how people can be that bothered and frustrated about not being able to buy something non-essential.

As to the rest (game will become P2W, developers will focus on crate items and not on the game, etc...) that's all extrapolation (based on other games, but still extrapolation). If it gets there with ESO, it will be soon enough to rage, quit or both over it.

But you're free to see everything negative.

No, the problem isn't solved by just not buying the crates, the crates are fundamentally indecent. Your rationale lacks any kind of perspective taking, understanding of economics, or logical follow-through. Repeating "don't buy them" over and over doesn't lend any kind of rhetorical weight to your position. You would need to address and/or justify

The use of exclusive items to incentivize gambling
The use of gambling as a means of generating revenue
The impact that an accessory gambling exposure has on populations that otherwise don't seek out gambling
The lowered ability of fans to monetarily support the game due to merchandise being locked behind a gambling wall
The fact that spending an arbitrarily-high amount of money gambling does not guarantee a reward, and how this is a betrayal of the typical client/service provider model

If you can't see how any of that is a problem, or think it can all be solved by just not buying the gambling boxes, then you lack some fundamental ability in perspective-taking or something, plain and simple. Also, I don't see everything negative, this is basically the only problem I have with the direction the game is going.

More perspective-taking issues!