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What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
Well, yeah, but if I sign up for a tropical cruise, I'd better not be seeing icebergs. That is the risk with One Tamriel.
And, if I get out in the tropics and end up at an island that looks like it never recovered from the last hurricane because the cruise line was too cheap to go to better places? What do I do? Spend time in the ship gift shop?
you make fair points....
but icebergs in the tropics are possible and the hurricane could have struck after you set sail....
it could be a disaster. but, so far i am enjoying what zos has served up.
is it perfect? no.
is there a perfect mmo?
will there ever be an mmo that satisfies all our dilettante wants?
I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
6 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticslordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
Well, yeah, but if I sign up for a tropical cruise, I'd better not be seeing icebergs. That is the risk with One Tamriel.
And, if I get out in the tropics and end up at an island that looks like it never recovered from the last hurricane because the cruise line was too cheap to go to better places? What do I do? Spend time in the ship gift shop?
you make fair points....
but icebergs in the tropics are possible and the hurricane could have struck after you set sail....
it could be a disaster. but, so far i am enjoying what zos has served up.
is it perfect? no.
is there a perfect mmo?
will there ever be an mmo that satisfies all our dilettante wants?
I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
as is your choice
i'm staying for the ride, so far i have enjoyed it. if that changes i will go elsewhere. but i'm not getting off now because a few hundred people got hysterical on speculation.6 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
Well, yeah, but if I sign up for a tropical cruise, I'd better not be seeing icebergs. That is the risk with One Tamriel.
And, if I get out in the tropics and end up at an island that looks like it never recovered from the last hurricane because the cruise line was too cheap to go to better places? What do I do? Spend time in the ship gift shop?
you make fair points....
but icebergs in the tropics are possible and the hurricane could have struck after you set sail....
it could be a disaster. but, so far i am enjoying what zos has served up.
is it perfect? no.
is there a perfect mmo?
will there ever be an mmo that satisfies all our dilettante wants?
I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
as is your choice
i'm staying for the ride, so far i have enjoyed it. if that changes i will go elsewhere. but i'm not getting off now because a few hundred people got hysterical on speculation.
Yeah. People "speculated" the game was going B2P/F2P and people said it was hysteria. That turned out to be true. People "speculated" about XP not being tracked and that was supposed to be hysteria. That turned out to be true. People "speculated" about the cash shop and that was hysteria..that turned out to be true. People "speculated" that the cash shop would eventually have RNG boxes and people said that was hysteria. That turned out to be true.
I guess continue with the willful ignorance of what is happening if you want but you will probably see it eventually. It took me a little while as well because I wanted to believe what they were saying but you will figure out that their word doesn't mean much.7 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
Well, yeah, but if I sign up for a tropical cruise, I'd better not be seeing icebergs. That is the risk with One Tamriel.
And, if I get out in the tropics and end up at an island that looks like it never recovered from the last hurricane because the cruise line was too cheap to go to better places? What do I do? Spend time in the ship gift shop?
you make fair points....
but icebergs in the tropics are possible and the hurricane could have struck after you set sail....
it could be a disaster. but, so far i am enjoying what zos has served up.
is it perfect? no.
is there a perfect mmo?
will there ever be an mmo that satisfies all our dilettante wants?
I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
as is your choice
i'm staying for the ride, so far i have enjoyed it. if that changes i will go elsewhere. but i'm not getting off now because a few hundred people got hysterical on speculation.
Yeah. People "speculated" the game was going B2P/F2P and people said it was hysteria. That turned out to be true. People "speculated" about XP not being tracked and that was supposed to be hysteria. That turned out to be true. People "speculated" about the cash shop and that was hysteria..that turned out to be true. People "speculated" that the cash shop would eventually have RNG boxes and people said that was hysteria. That turned out to be true.
I guess continue with the willful ignorance of what is happening if you want but you will probably see it eventually. It took me a little while as well because I wanted to believe what they were saying but you will figure out that their word doesn't mean much.
ah... a bit more hysteria.
the game is buy to play.... not a bad idea. i think zos should have kept the sub - but i have no direct knowledge of their business plan.
the rest of your post just looks like the rantings of an ex, disgruntled player.Edited by jedtb16_ESO on August 31, 2016 9:08PM6 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamblelordrichter wrote: »Sevalaricgirl wrote: »The problem starts when the exclusives are only available in boxes and the store becomes nothing. That is what happened in SWTOR. The store had nothing new that didn't come in boxes and frankly, it ruined the game.
The real problem is what the company does to address sagging cash shop revenue. If all they can do is Cash Store, because their game development is so sub-par that they can't make a decent game, then they think up ways to make the Cash Shop work better. Anyone can do that. No skills required. Makes for a great cash store, but a really poor game.
And you don't think ZOS will go there? I think it's a thin line between just having a few things in cash boxes and putting everything into cash boxes. SWTOR was a good game from levels 1-50. I really loved it. Leveled about 20 characters. They lost it after that. They lost a good majority of their team and EA is all about it being a money grab. ZOS can easily go there too and that would be a shame because ESO is a very good game.
3 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsSevalaricgirl wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »Sevalaricgirl wrote: »The problem starts when the exclusives are only available in boxes and the store becomes nothing. That is what happened in SWTOR. The store had nothing new that didn't come in boxes and frankly, it ruined the game.
The real problem is what the company does to address sagging cash shop revenue. If all they can do is Cash Store, because their game development is so sub-par that they can't make a decent game, then they think up ways to make the Cash Shop work better. Anyone can do that. No skills required. Makes for a great cash store, but a really poor game.
And you don't think ZOS will go there? I think it's a thin line between just having a few things in cash boxes and putting everything into cash boxes. SWTOR was a good game from levels 1-50. I really loved it. Leveled about 20 characters. They lost it after that. They lost a good majority of their team and EA is all about it being a money grab. ZOS can easily go there too and that would be a shame because ESO is a very good game.
i agree with most of your post. played swtor..... all classes both sides up to the max. was a good game until...
do i think zos will go that way?
i don't know, and i would not pretend to know.
the whole dilettante thing.... we are consumers not producers. would you go into your local baker and tell them how to bake bread?
the bottom line is..... it's a business - if it doesn't make a return on the investment it ceases to exist. for this game that would make me sad....
queue video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLGWQfK-6DY
0 -
Esquire1980g_ESO✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.MMORPG.com just got into the lockbox mix that's over here. The answer over there? Stop complaining.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/11120/Five-Things-MMO-Gamers-Should-Stop-Complaining-About.html
Started a bit of a storm over there also. Advertising budget?Edited by Esquire1980g_ESO on August 31, 2016 9:45PM0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsEsquire1980g_ESO wrote: »MMORPG.com just got into the lockbox mix that's over here. The answer over there? Stop complaining.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/11120/Five-Things-MMO-Gamers-Should-Stop-Complaining-About.html
Started a bit of a storm over there also. Advertising budget?
well, yeah.. it's like that, and that's the way it is.....0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
as is your choice
i'm staying for the ride, so far i have enjoyed it. if that changes i will go elsewhere. but i'm not getting off now because a few hundred people got hysterical on speculation.
I'm not telling you what to do. Leave, or stay, it makes no difference to me. When I see a Welcome to Juneau sign, the time for speculating is over. This boat is in Alaska. Time to make a decision. By the end of the day tomorrow, I will have a real good idea whether I am sticking around, or not. Still, I have until October to make my final decision. I signed up for this cruise during the Beta Weekends. There is no reason to rush, or be hasty, but I will get off if the One Tamriel destination is not where I want to go.
6 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticslordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »I skip playing many games due to my 'dilettante' wants. That does not bother me.
When I get on a cruise to the Caribbean, I don't want the captain sailing to Alaska because he thinks the scenery will be better. My 'dilettante' wants aside, I picked the Caribbean cruise because I wanted to go there.
I am not looking for the perfect MMO. I am not that picky. But... If ZOS wants to change the game and sail to Alaska, I'm getting off.
as is your choice
i'm staying for the ride, so far i have enjoyed it. if that changes i will go elsewhere. but i'm not getting off now because a few hundred people got hysterical on speculation.
I'm not telling you what to do. Leave, or stay, it makes no difference to me. When I see a Welcome to Juneau sign, the time for speculating is over. This boat is in Alaska. Time to make a decision. By the end of the day tomorrow, I will have a real good idea whether I am sticking around, or not. Still, I have until October to make my final decision. I signed up for this cruise during the Beta Weekends. There is no reason to rush, or be hasty, but I will get off if the One Tamriel destination is not where I want to go.
hey... i have no argument with that. i am very much in the same boat as far as time involved goes - probably money spent too. this has taken me to places i did not expect to see... that's ok. as said earlier i have enjoyed the ride. apparently we can see what one tamriel brings tomorrow - i will go to pts for the first time. check these evil rng boxes - then see what they bring on live. i am an empiricist - take no ones word for anything.... find out for yourself.
either way enjoy it for what it is....
and if it all goes wrong i will see you in anchorage
queue another one of those new fangled video things...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQoGUN7ze50
sorry.... could only find a cover that would play here... not bad though0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »i will go to pts for the first time. check these evil rng boxes
I am not expecting the Crown Crates to be on PTS, at least not immediately. I could be wrong, though.
4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticslordrichter wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »i will go to pts for the first time. check these evil rng boxes
I am not expecting the Crown Crates to be on PTS, at least not immediately. I could be wrong, though.
you could be wrong?????
i gave an agree for that....thank you for admitting something that virtually no one else (me excepted) would admit.
i could be wrong....
hey, whatever... we will find out tomorrow.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
That metaphor is limping - it more like choosing what kind of cabin I want to book and what kind of entertainment on board I prefer. A good cruise liner company has something for everyone.
And no I was not on a cruise yet, simply because I do not have to move far to see whales - those are 78km away from where I live in Hermanus. Icebergs and glacier are something different, but ... just about 24km away from where I live are wild penguins, if that counts, at Bolder Beach on the east side of the peninsula of Capetown. So I do not really have a need to go on a cruise. Now if you come with elephants, lions, antelopes and other wildlife - well, those are just across the mountain ranges, about 25 minutes by helicopter. But we have baboons on the hillside right behind our house.Edited by Lysette on August 31, 2016 11:45PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »MMORPG.com just got into the lockbox mix that's over here. The answer over there? Stop complaining.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/11120/Five-Things-MMO-Gamers-Should-Stop-Complaining-About.html
Started a bit of a storm over there also. Advertising budget?
Why am I not suprised.
And the more they tell us to shut up, the louder we gonna get.7 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
That metaphor is limping - it more like choosing what kind of cabin I want to book and what kind of entertainment on board I prefer. A good cruise liner company has something for everyone.
And no I was not on a cruise yet, simply because I do not have to move far to see whales - those are 78km away from where I live in Hermanus. Icebergs and glacier are something different, but ... just about 24km away from where I live are wild penguins, if that counts, at Bolder Beach on the east side of the peninsula of Capetown. So I do not really have a need to go on a cruise. Now if you come with elephants, lions, antelopes and other wildlife - well, those are just across the mountain ranges, about 25 minutes by helicopter. But we have baboons on the hillside right behind our house.
hmmm i note you avoid the issue. would you tell a baker how to make bread, or a captain how to sail a boat?
the dilettante thing?
we are consumers.... for the purpose of this post that is just you and me.
i know spreadsheets, databases (sql), c, c2plus, fortran, forth, java, act* and a load of other groovy stuff. could i make a good game? probably not on my own. i would need people for the design and so on.
would i want to..... well, given the grief i've seen handed to devs on forums like this .... not in a million years.
so, we are consumers.... we (the rarity amongst the general population of gamers) choose to pontificate on forums (or fora if you want to be pedantic) to what end?
in the hope of influencing the future development of the game? yup, i have done that.
does it always work? no. certainly not when hysteria replaces calm, rational debate.
and i just forgot why i am making this post....
oh yeah.... it's in the first line.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
That metaphor is limping - it more like choosing what kind of cabin I want to book and what kind of entertainment on board I prefer. A good cruise liner company has something for everyone.
And no I was not on a cruise yet, simply because I do not have to move far to see whales - those are 78km away from where I live in Hermanus. Icebergs and glacier are something different, but ... just about 24km away from where I live are wild penguins, if that counts, at Bolder Beach on the east side of the peninsula of Capetown. So I do not really have a need to go on a cruise. Now if you come with elephants, lions, antelopes and other wildlife - well, those are just across the mountain ranges, about 25 minutes by helicopter. But we have baboons on the hillside right behind our house.
hmmm i note you avoid the issue. would you tell a baker how to make bread, or a captain how to sail a boat?
the dilettante thing?
we are consumers.... for the purpose of this post that is just you and me.
i know spreadsheets, databases (sql), c, c2plus, fortran, forth, java, act* and a load of other groovy stuff. could i make a good game? probably not on my own. i would need people for the design and so on.
would i want to..... well, given the grief i've seen handed to devs on forums like this .... not in a million years.
so, we are consumers.... we (the rarity amongst the general population of gamers) choose to pontificate on forums (or fora if you want to be pedantic) to what end?
in the hope of influencing the future development of the game? yup, i have done that.
does it always work? no. certainly not when hysteria replaces calm, rational debate.
and i just forgot why i am making this post....
oh yeah.... it's in the first line.
And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.
You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.Edited by Lysette on September 1, 2016 12:12AM1 -
Kuningatar✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.newtinmpls wrote: »verenkutoja wrote: »
I actually quit about a week after the 12 month senche mount were released for a little over a year and only recently came back, I quit mostly because of the fact that Zenimax have outright lied on a number of different occasions and displayed an absolute unwillingness to listen to their player base virtually at all. That just does not rub me the right way, I mean.. I supported this game from its beta and for myself and others like me who were loyal to be shoved aside and basically put in a corner and treated as if we do not matter? Yeah, no.
First, I'm sorry you were upset enough to leave, and I'm glad you came back and I hope you are having a good time both in forum and in game.
Second, I think that ZoS thought that PvP and AvA was going to be the main draw, the main activity, the main moneymaker.
I think that RP, ES-fanatics and slower players are a MUCH bigger 1-part of the playerbase and 2-spend much more relative to PvPers than was ever expected or anticipated and I think that ZoS is still adjusting to that.
For me I think it's about 80% PvE and 20% PvP.
I'm also doing a LOT more undaunted than I ever expected (and I would like to see more stories/story extensions with that - but that's another thread).
As for "random" stuff - there have already been random crates available for various in-game currencies (gold, telvar stones) and I agree that making any random item available for actual cash is a bad idea.
That way lies addiction, madness, angry parents and potential legal issues. Not good.
Thanks, but I am actually again (thanks to repeated instances of the same crap from Zenimax) considering quitting again, probably this time for good. To be honest they have not changed at all since beta, in fact they seem to have gotten worse.
I myself am an rper, but this is just.. no..
Edited by Kuningatar on September 1, 2016 2:14AMJoskus menee perkeleen huonosti, mutta minä en anna periksi!5 -
Graydon✭✭✭✭✭Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmeticsSo I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.
Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.
I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.1 -
Dromede✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
That metaphor is limping - it more like choosing what kind of cabin I want to book and what kind of entertainment on board I prefer. A good cruise liner company has something for everyone.
And no I was not on a cruise yet, simply because I do not have to move far to see whales - those are 78km away from where I live in Hermanus. Icebergs and glacier are something different, but ... just about 24km away from where I live are wild penguins, if that counts, at Bolder Beach on the east side of the peninsula of Capetown. So I do not really have a need to go on a cruise. Now if you come with elephants, lions, antelopes and other wildlife - well, those are just across the mountain ranges, about 25 minutes by helicopter. But we have baboons on the hillside right behind our house.
hmmm i note you avoid the issue. would you tell a baker how to make bread, or a captain how to sail a boat?
the dilettante thing?
we are consumers.... for the purpose of this post that is just you and me.
i know spreadsheets, databases (sql), c, c2plus, fortran, forth, java, act* and a load of other groovy stuff. could i make a good game? probably not on my own. i would need people for the design and so on.
would i want to..... well, given the grief i've seen handed to devs on forums like this .... not in a million years.
so, we are consumers.... we (the rarity amongst the general population of gamers) choose to pontificate on forums (or fora if you want to be pedantic) to what end?
in the hope of influencing the future development of the game? yup, i have done that.
does it always work? no. certainly not when hysteria replaces calm, rational debate.
and i just forgot why i am making this post....
oh yeah.... it's in the first line.
And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.
You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.
@Lysette you must have skipped a couple pages, that comment was not addressed to you by any means.
That article on mmorpg.com though... Baiting all the way through, very abrasive and dismissive. How do you post something like that to a crowd of people who are obviously invested in mmo gaming?
Someone needs to make a meme "Shut up as i take your money". It's a weird world out there... Talking to people like they're some kind of deadbits who are to cheap to shed a dollar (as if it implies a small amount) for a game.
The more the conversation goes on, the more respect and care is lost from me towards the game, the mmo community, social and channel outlets. This is such a deep and filthy pond, and most people from all sides are happy for each others' discontent and unhappiness.
All it takes is stepping in someone else's shoes, then maybe we'll stop condemning each other for different opinions.
Peace.Edited by Dromede on September 1, 2016 6:44AMSkye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
Lae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.
Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doing
V'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tank
Ulville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!
Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreams
Swims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.
Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.So I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.
Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.
I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.
It's because we have the amazing power to remember past events, and extrapolate patterns of behavior. It's a terrifying power, but one we learn to live with.6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.@Graydon, okay, if I take you at face value, and assume you're not voting purple as an act of subversion, here's the problem:
People were sold one game, and are now being transitioned over to a different one. You like the direction it's going? That's fine, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. And, if I'm bluntly honest, it's not that I don't think there's a legitimate market for P2W.
I get it, you work 60 hours a week, you're pulling down six figures, you've got, maybe, four hours a week you can put in, and you just want to get into a game, stomp around, rip *** up, and have fun. And you want the social elements of an MMO. You want to hang out with friends, BS on teamspeak, and run stuff together.
Honestly, that's fine. And there's a lot of games on the market, including all of Cryptic's offerings, Trion, Funcom (hell, TSW flat out sells experience points, last I checked).
The problem is, that's not the experience we were looking for. @Lysette, @Cazzy, or anyone else violently apposed to this may dispute me on this, but, quite frankly if I wanted a game where I could simply throw money at the screen for a statistical advantage, I'd still be playing Star Trek Online, or maybe TSW. ...actually, probably Champions Online, because that was the most hilariously broken P2W setup, I've ever seen.
ESO was originally marketed as a kind of throwback to older MMOs. Before Nexon and their item rentals, or PWI and their lucky bags. When your time in the game was an even playing field. Where if you had a cool as hell character, it's because you put the time into making them, and earning the stuff to get that, not because you coughed up cash.
Then ZOS said, "well, we have to go subscription optional, so we're sticking in a cash shop. Okay, I get it, it's not 2004 anymore, the industry is rough, and Microsoft put their foot down on allowing ZOS to bypass XBL for subscribers. So subscriptions went out. Cash shop came in.
I mean, there was always the issue with Any Race/Any Alliance, but that was a preorder bonus, and not a flat out P2W scheme. And the Imperials that... originally, were only kinda beefy, because Stamina was way less important at the time, and stamina regen while blocking meant their stamina boost was good but not incredible. But, as the game's gone forward, and the systems have changed, the Imperials have become substantially more powerful.
Was it intentional? I honestly don't know.
But, okay, yeah, there's a crown store now, and so long as it stays cosmetic items only, it's a blight on the industry, it's not what we were promised, not what we were sold, but I could live with that. Some people couldn't, they left. It wasn't the game they were sold, and it was something they didn't want.
And now, lucky bags.
When they went to B2P, one of the promises was no lockbox systems. And, here is one. And, yeah, I'm more than a little irked that they decided not to keep their word on it. Especially since, unlike when they went B2P, they've just basically said, "deal with it," and ignored all feedback.
You're seeing people leave because they despise this system. You're seeing people upset because ZOS said they wouldn't do it. You're seeing people leaving because ZOS isn't addressing their concerns, and is just blowing us off.
All of those are legitimate reasons to be dissatisfied.17 -
Marrtha✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.starkerealm wrote: »But, okay, yeah, there's a crown store now, and so long as it stays cosmetic items only, it's a blight on the industry, it's not what we were promised, not what we were sold, but I could live with that. Some people couldn't, they left. It wasn't the game they were sold, and it was something they didn't want.
And now, lucky bags.
When they went to B2P, one of the promises was no lockbox systems. And, here is one. And, yeah, I'm more than a little irked that they decided not to keep their word on it. Especially since, unlike when they went B2P, they've just basically said, "deal with it," and ignored all feedback.
You're seeing people leave because they despise this system. You're seeing people upset because ZOS said they wouldn't do it. You're seeing people leaving because ZOS isn't addressing their concerns, and is just blowing us off.
All of those are legitimate reasons to be dissatisfied.
Amazingly put, sir.Use @Marrtha when replying!5 -
GhostwalkerLD✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.starkerealm wrote: »@Graydon, okay, if I take you at face value, and assume you're not voting purple as an act of subversion, here's the problem:
People were sold one game, and are now being transitioned over to a different one. You like the direction it's going? That's fine, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. And, if I'm bluntly honest, it's not that I don't think there's a legitimate market for P2W.
I get it, you work 60 hours a week, you're pulling down six figures, you've got, maybe, four hours a week you can put in, and you just want to get into a game, stomp around, rip *** up, and have fun. And you want the social elements of an MMO. You want to hang out with friends, BS on teamspeak, and run stuff together.
Honestly, that's fine. And there's a lot of games on the market, including all of Cryptic's offerings, Trion, Funcom (hell, TSW flat out sells experience points, last I checked).
The problem is, that's not the experience we were looking for. @Lysette, @Cazzy, or anyone else violently apposed to this may dispute me on this, but, quite frankly if I wanted a game where I could simply throw money at the screen for a statistical advantage, I'd still be playing Star Trek Online, or maybe TSW. ...actually, probably Champions Online, because that was the most hilariously broken P2W setup, I've ever seen.
ESO was originally marketed as a kind of throwback to older MMOs. Before Nexon and their item rentals, or PWI and their lucky bags. When your time in the game was an even playing field. Where if you had a cool as hell character, it's because you put the time into making them, and earning the stuff to get that, not because you coughed up cash.
Then ZOS said, "well, we have to go subscription optional, so we're sticking in a cash shop. Okay, I get it, it's not 2004 anymore, the industry is rough, and Microsoft put their foot down on allowing ZOS to bypass XBL for subscribers. So subscriptions went out. Cash shop came in.
I mean, there was always the issue with Any Race/Any Alliance, but that was a preorder bonus, and not a flat out P2W scheme. And the Imperials that... originally, were only kinda beefy, because Stamina was way less important at the time, and stamina regen while blocking meant their stamina boost was good but not incredible. But, as the game's gone forward, and the systems have changed, the Imperials have become substantially more powerful.
Was it intentional? I honestly don't know.
But, okay, yeah, there's a crown store now, and so long as it stays cosmetic items only, it's a blight on the industry, it's not what we were promised, not what we were sold, but I could live with that. Some people couldn't, they left. It wasn't the game they were sold, and it was something they didn't want.
And now, lucky bags.
When they went to B2P, one of the promises was no lockbox systems. And, here is one. And, yeah, I'm more than a little irked that they decided not to keep their word on it. Especially since, unlike when they went B2P, they've just basically said, "deal with it," and ignored all feedback.
You're seeing people leave because they despise this system. You're seeing people upset because ZOS said they wouldn't do it. You're seeing people leaving because ZOS isn't addressing their concerns, and is just blowing us off.
All of those are legitimate reasons to be dissatisfied.
Not enough Awesome votes on this post yet, so here's another one. Well put, and succinctly so.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!9 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »
Of course they will. Our only hope of getting rid of them is they don't sell. Unfortunately, they probably will sell. It's kinda sad they don't listen to their players, but they made it very clear they aren't listening to our arguments.The majority of players over all forms of social media, these forums and in game do not want this, yet I am betting they will still put them in. GG
Yes and no while i dont claim to be a expert on marketing !! logic would say the only reason there putting these boxes out is to make more money clearly there struggling for revenue ( prob because of loss of subs and not the popularity of the items sold in crown store) agreed?
It is hard to say what ZOS financials look like, but most people think of ZOS like a stand-alone studio doing their first and only game. This way of thinking can be deceptive. They are part of ZeniMax Media, a company that has built an empire out of sales of $60 boxes and a few followup DLC. ZOS shows all the signs of this manner of thinking.
ZeniMax Media has a ton of money from Fallout 4, Dishonored, Doom 4, and other games. ZOS has to balance the books, but ZeniMax is not going to let ZOS fail. It is still years before Elder Scrolls 6 comes out. They will supplement to cover any shortfalls to keep ESO afloat. (EDIT: If the internal perception is that ESO is strong, there will be another game between Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6. If the internal perception is that ESO is sinking, Elder Scrolls 6 will be the next game out of Bethesda Game Studios. I think that Elder Scrolls 6 has been postponed to allow BGS to work on something new.)
Crown Crates are a way to even out cyclical revenue and help to balance the books. After Gold+DLC Pack+One Tamriel, there will be no new boxes to sell until at least 2018, if they continue to follow that model.
As far as gamble boxes go, you will have to search to find a more mild implementation anywhere else, especially if they keep their word about convenience and customization only. All ZOS has to do is stick by their word. It will be hard for them, with little demons pulling at them every day to do more, in addition to the people inside the Studio and at ZeniMax and Bethesda. People will want them to get closer to the line, or move the line (as they did with RNG boxes). It all depends on Firor and how much he wants to stick by those statements, which some will feel to be a pretty bleak outlook.
Although, that said, I think that One Tamriel is a big gamble for them. It is the way to go, but to succeed, the vision and implementation have to be spot on. It has to give the open world play that Elder Scrolls is known for while preserving RPG and MMO longevity. It has to keep people playing without turning it into Goldilocks Online by holding our hand and making sure our porridge is just right. ZOS is good with vision, but they tend to fall short in implementation. If One Tamriel sinks ESO, no gamble box on the planet will save it.
One Tamriel would not be a problem at all, if they would follow the suggestion to implement an individual difficulty slider - this would not be a problem in a PvE only area. What I have heard from people so far is, that many are afraid of that One Tamriel will turn out to be either too less of a challenge or too much of it - and no one really wants an average middle-ground, where no one would be happy with it - THIS is the problem with One Tamriel IMO - a difficulty slider would solve this problem.
ever been on a cruise?
you know the deal.... boat, a load of cabins. go look at.....sea. whales, icebergs or glaciers maybe. tropical islands that kind of stuff.
who should make the decisions there?
the captain and crew who, we hope, are at least qualified to sail the boat.
or the passengers who, at best, are a bunch of dilettantes?
That metaphor is limping - it more like choosing what kind of cabin I want to book and what kind of entertainment on board I prefer. A good cruise liner company has something for everyone.
And no I was not on a cruise yet, simply because I do not have to move far to see whales - those are 78km away from where I live in Hermanus. Icebergs and glacier are something different, but ... just about 24km away from where I live are wild penguins, if that counts, at Bolder Beach on the east side of the peninsula of Capetown. So I do not really have a need to go on a cruise. Now if you come with elephants, lions, antelopes and other wildlife - well, those are just across the mountain ranges, about 25 minutes by helicopter. But we have baboons on the hillside right behind our house.
hmmm i note you avoid the issue. would you tell a baker how to make bread, or a captain how to sail a boat?
the dilettante thing?
we are consumers.... for the purpose of this post that is just you and me.
i know spreadsheets, databases (sql), c, c2plus, fortran, forth, java, act* and a load of other groovy stuff. could i make a good game? probably not on my own. i would need people for the design and so on.
would i want to..... well, given the grief i've seen handed to devs on forums like this .... not in a million years.
so, we are consumers.... we (the rarity amongst the general population of gamers) choose to pontificate on forums (or fora if you want to be pedantic) to what end?
in the hope of influencing the future development of the game? yup, i have done that.
does it always work? no. certainly not when hysteria replaces calm, rational debate.
and i just forgot why i am making this post....
oh yeah.... it's in the first line.
And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.
You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.
@Lysette you must have skipped a couple pages, that comment was not addressed to you by any means.
That article on mmorpg.com though... Baiting all the way through, very abrasive and dismissive. How do you post something like that to a crowd of people who are obviously invested in mmo gaming?
Someone needs to make a meme "Shut up as i take your money". It's a weird world out there... Talking to people like they're some kind of deadbits who are to cheap to shed a dollar (as if it implies a small amount) for a game.
The more the conversation goes on, the more respect and care is lost from me towards the game, the mmo community, social and channel outlets. This is such a deep and filthy pond, and most people from all sides are happy for each others' discontent and unhappiness.
All it takes is stepping in someone else's shoes, then maybe we'll stop condemning each other for different opinions.
Peace.
I was actually just commenting on one statement in that post, which was about that One Tamriel would be a gamble for ZOS, kind of a great risk. And I made a suggestion about what I see as a possible problem - namely that a lot could find it either too hard or not challenging enough, when it is all scaled in the same way. So I brought up the individual difficulty slider again, which was suggested and argued very well in a video by Elloa - I think that especially with One Tamriel such a slider would make sense and it would as well be extremely easy to implement it. This would make One Tamriel a lot more acceptable to a lot of people IMO. I was not referring to any other statement which was in the post, where I commented to.
My personal interest into ESO has pretty much vanished - I am not accepting these boxes and therefore I won't play this game much anymore. I might have a look once in a while, because I have still ESO+ left for nearly a year, but my interest to actually play it as one would normally play a game like this, is just no longer there. But I still care about some features, which can make the game better, if it is implemented in the right way. What is the right way is of course debatable. But I want people to have fun with the game, even I myself do not consider me any longer as a regular player - I am more kind of a visitor from time to time from now on.Edited by Lysette on September 1, 2016 12:32PM0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsSo I noticed I have 10k crowns. Once again I browse the Crown Store and once again all I see is crap.
Since the origin of the Crown Store I have purchased a camel and a monkey.
I really don't understand the hysteria and panic regarding the Crates. It's all junk.
Depends on perspective. I have purchased quite a bit from the Crown Store, exclusively "durable items" (costumes, mounts, pets, etc).
While I am fine with the Crown Crates (it even says so after the little red box above this comment), my main concerns are (potentially) what happens because of the Crown Crates. However, because those are long-term things, and I think there is a shorter term problem with game design direction, I really can't get worked up over them.starkerealm wrote: »People were sold one game, and are now being transitioned over to a different one. You like the direction it's going? That's fine, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it.
This is the cruise ship analogy, and I want to thank @jedtb16_ESO for putting this out there, even if it was not used as intended. I signed up for the game back in 2014 (boarded the ship) and, so far, the ship has been generally heading in a direction I am comfortable with. For me, One Tamriel has the potential to set sail in a completely different direction, one that I might not want to go. Crown Crates are not gonna do it for me, especially if ZOS can be trusted to limit how they impact the game and Crown Store. I really have no confidence in Firor on this score, though.starkerealm wrote: »I mean, there was always the issue with Any Race/Any Alliance, but that was a preorder bonus, and not a flat out P2W scheme. And the Imperials that... originally, were only kinda beefy, because Stamina was way less important at the time, and stamina regen while blocking meant their stamina boost was good but not incredible. But, as the game's gone forward, and the systems have changed, the Imperials have become substantially more powerful.
Honestly, if ZOS put the Imperial Race into the Crown Store for 500 Crowns, separate from the bundle it is in now. This would make it more of a non-issue. Everyone gets 500 Crowns for free when they create an account. It would be a "free" option, while still taking on the role of having to select it on purpose in a way that sucks down a few Crowns. As a person who bought the Imperial race before launch, I really have no issue with them "giving it away" for 500 Crowns. I always thought it was silly to restrict the race and never opposed it being in the Store.
No one need worry. The bundle costs 2100 Crowns. ZOS would never let the Imperial Race go for as little as 500 Crowns.starkerealm wrote: »When they went to B2P, one of the promises was no lockbox systems. And, here is one. And, yeah, I'm more than a little irked that they decided not to keep their word on it. Especially since, unlike when they went B2P, they've just basically said, "deal with it," and ignored all feedback.
This is one of the things that I mention above about what happens because of Crown Crates. They have already demonstrated that they are willing to change the parameters of the Crown Store from what they have said in the past. They have justified it by claiming that the Crown Crates are not what they were talking about, and have annoyed me to a greater extent by calling the criticism "baseless fears".
Sure, the Crown Crates are so mild as an implementation of RNG Boxes that it is not objectionable. As they are, I have no objection, and this is because of that. The bigger picture is that Firor will make changes to the store to drive people to the boxes, with exclusive items for the Crates and the corresponding reduction of "good stuff" to buy outside of the Crates.
EDIT: Reminder that I don't find the Crates objectionable, as they are today, but the effect they have could be.Edited by Elsonso on September 1, 2016 12:37PM6 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don't ever add these into the game.starkerealm wrote: »@Graydon, okay, if I take you at face value, and assume you're not voting purple as an act of subversion, here's the problem:
People were sold one game, and are now being transitioned over to a different one. You like the direction it's going? That's fine, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. And, if I'm bluntly honest, it's not that I don't think there's a legitimate market for P2W.
I get it, you work 60 hours a week, you're pulling down six figures, you've got, maybe, four hours a week you can put in, and you just want to get into a game, stomp around, rip *** up, and have fun. And you want the social elements of an MMO. You want to hang out with friends, BS on teamspeak, and run stuff together.
Honestly, that's fine. And there's a lot of games on the market, including all of Cryptic's offerings, Trion, Funcom (hell, TSW flat out sells experience points, last I checked).
The problem is, that's not the experience we were looking for. @Lysette, @Cazzy, or anyone else violently apposed to this may dispute me on this, but, quite frankly if I wanted a game where I could simply throw money at the screen for a statistical advantage, I'd still be playing Star Trek Online, or maybe TSW. ...actually, probably Champions Online, because that was the most hilariously broken P2W setup, I've ever seen.
ESO was originally marketed as a kind of throwback to older MMOs. Before Nexon and their item rentals, or PWI and their lucky bags. When your time in the game was an even playing field. Where if you had a cool as hell character, it's because you put the time into making them, and earning the stuff to get that, not because you coughed up cash.
Then ZOS said, "well, we have to go subscription optional, so we're sticking in a cash shop. Okay, I get it, it's not 2004 anymore, the industry is rough, and Microsoft put their foot down on allowing ZOS to bypass XBL for subscribers. So subscriptions went out. Cash shop came in.
I mean, there was always the issue with Any Race/Any Alliance, but that was a preorder bonus, and not a flat out P2W scheme. And the Imperials that... originally, were only kinda beefy, because Stamina was way less important at the time, and stamina regen while blocking meant their stamina boost was good but not incredible. But, as the game's gone forward, and the systems have changed, the Imperials have become substantially more powerful.
Was it intentional? I honestly don't know.
But, okay, yeah, there's a crown store now, and so long as it stays cosmetic items only, it's a blight on the industry, it's not what we were promised, not what we were sold, but I could live with that. Some people couldn't, they left. It wasn't the game they were sold, and it was something they didn't want.
And now, lucky bags.
When they went to B2P, one of the promises was no lockbox systems. And, here is one. And, yeah, I'm more than a little irked that they decided not to keep their word on it. Especially since, unlike when they went B2P, they've just basically said, "deal with it," and ignored all feedback.
You're seeing people leave because they despise this system. You're seeing people upset because ZOS said they wouldn't do it. You're seeing people leaving because ZOS isn't addressing their concerns, and is just blowing us off.
All of those are legitimate reasons to be dissatisfied.
So much this. Everything in this game will be tied to the cash shop sooner rather than later. It is disappointing to a lot of us that the game will be nothing more than any other run of the mill mmo out there.1 -
Graydon✭✭✭✭✭Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmeticsFearing the worse. Fear mongering. Hunker down its the end of the world!
Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.
Here's my counterpoints. Hey you all! It's just a games! Also all the Crown Store items are junk.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Fearing the worse. Fear mongering. Hunker down its the end of the world!
Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.
Here's my counterpoints. Hey you all! It's just a games! Also all the Crown Store items are junk.
And here is my response to someone with faux counterpoints:
Go soak your head in a bucket of eels.3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsFearing the worse. Fear mongering. Hunker down its the end of the world!
Every point you guys mentioned are all assumptions.
This would not be as much of an issue if everything ZOS did was not Utter Top Secret. The players have to respond in reactionary mode, and guess about the future, because ZOS never tells the players anything until the end. When people are blindfolded, it is natural to speculate about where they are going.
Ultimately, ZOS agrees with you. People should not care.
Also, it is easier for them to change plans when they have not said what those plans are.Edited by Elsonso on September 1, 2016 1:15PM2 -
greyman✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.And what exactly has this to do with the comment I made - which was about an individual difficulty slider for One Tamriel in order to let people choose, if they want a harder game or a more relaxing one at will?- What is so bad about this idea?- I think you have not really read what I wrote, this has nothing to do with how the company is run, but it was about this sole feature, which would make the gameplay individually adjustable, even after the current mood of the player.
You are not the only one with a bunch of programming language knowledge - this has nothing to do with programming at all - but if it would be required to do it, I could actually do that, it is not difficult at all, just a multiplicator added to the scaling method, which is anyway there. It is not as if this would be something immensely complicated, it is actually trivial.
I think this article was written for you: http://www.gamerbolt.com/gamers-dont-realise-games-made/3
This discussion has been closed.