What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lets look at it this way:

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns.

I am just using this as an example. Lets say you buy a crown box for 400 crowns and get all of that.... are you happy with your purchase?

I have crowns laying around, I am subbed and I will probably buy 1 or 2.

If a "whale" or someone wants to drop 1,000$ on said boxes, let them... seriously, how in the world is ZOS supposed to continue to make money for this game? You wanna go back to Sub only?? Doubt it, forums would blow up for "ZOMG, 15$ for a crap game is QQ...hate you ZOS you sucks!!!!"

So no sub now but some crown COSMETIC stuff.... wanna know the response to that? Look above ^^^

I got the RNG.. its in every single MMO.. but stop the end of the world stuff until they hit. If you don't wanna buy one, then don't.

I am pretty sure 90% of you have bought something from the crown store. So look back at what you spent and what you spent your crowns on.... stop being a hypocrite just because you don't "like" it.

@ThePaleItalian
You've entirely missed the point of the thread. Buying things from the Crown Store and hating gambling boxes doesn't make you a hypocrite. When you buy something normally from the Crown Store, you don't gamble on whether or not you get the item, you just get the item. If you buy a gambling box, however, you aren't guaranteed to get anything beyond some nonsense consumables. That's the problem, you aren't getting something of value even though you spend money. It's a ridiculous system.

clayandaudrey_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So even though my questions were NOT in the realm of what I think about this subject the powers that be decided to lock that thread and shunt me back over here. So, being left with not choice, there are my questions then and hopefully the OP ofTHIS thread will forgive the tangent!



So there' this article out now. mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html

While I personally find it disappointing that instead of actually engaging the customers here they chose to do a PR article (which would have been fine if they had ALSO chosen to engage their customers here) I found that it also left me with more questions than answers. Here are some of the things that were not answered and that many of us would like specific answers to.

Matt Firor says, "Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set."

You've also already said there would be special, exclusive mounts that will only be available via the RNG boxes.

So what we want to know is this...

1. Will there be costumes that are ONLY available via RNG boxes and that have NEVER been offered in the crown store before?
2. Will there be hairstyles that will ONLY be available via the RNG boxes?
3. Will there be tattoos that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
4. Will there be makeup that is ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
5. Will there be scars that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
6. Will there be pets that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
7. Will there be adornments that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
8. Will there be dyes that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
9. Will there be emotes that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
10. Will there be personalities that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
11. Will there be new hair colors that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
12. Will there be polymorphs that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
13. Will there be trinkets that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?

Also, regarding the "gems" Firor had this to say, "There is a very good chance – especially if you are a regular collector of Crown Store items – that you will receive a collectible from a Crown Crate that you already have. When that happens, instead of a duplicate item, you will receive a new form of currency, the Crown Gem. You can then spend Crown Gems in a new section of the Crown Store where you can purchase the item that you want – including Crown Crate-exclusive items. The gem store will contain all of the collectibles available in all the Crown Crates, so you will be able to acquire the collectible you want, even if you don’t get it directly from a Crown Crate."

This does not address players like me who have deliberately passed on many costumes or other items because I did not like them or want them. Yet if I get one of these items that I did not ever want in the first place it appears that I am stuck with it and cannot "trade it in" for "gems" to put towards an item I DO want. Is this in fact the case?

These are the questions I, and many others, would like the answers to @ZOS_MattFiror , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom . Can you please answer them? Doing so will likely allay much of the discontent your customers have been feeling about this new and under-explained development. Thank you.

Answers 1-13 is yes.

Yes you are stuck with it. On top of that you will have to keep buying crates to try to get duplicates to get more gems to have enough to buy something.

ThePaleItalian

Recremen wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lets look at it this way:

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns.

I am just using this as an example. Lets say you buy a crown box for 400 crowns and get all of that.... are you happy with your purchase?

I have crowns laying around, I am subbed and I will probably buy 1 or 2.

If a "whale" or someone wants to drop 1,000$ on said boxes, let them... seriously, how in the world is ZOS supposed to continue to make money for this game? You wanna go back to Sub only?? Doubt it, forums would blow up for "ZOMG, 15$ for a crap game is QQ...hate you ZOS you sucks!!!!"

So no sub now but some crown COSMETIC stuff.... wanna know the response to that? Look above ^^^

I got the RNG.. its in every single MMO.. but stop the end of the world stuff until they hit. If you don't wanna buy one, then don't.

I am pretty sure 90% of you have bought something from the crown store. So look back at what you spent and what you spent your crowns on.... stop being a hypocrite just because you don't "like" it.

@ThePaleItalian
You've entirely missed the point of the thread. Buying things from the Crown Store and hating gambling boxes doesn't make you a hypocrite. When you buy something normally from the Crown Store, you don't gamble on whether or not you get the item, you just get the item. If you buy a gambling box, however, you aren't guaranteed to get anything beyond some nonsense consumables. That's the problem, you aren't getting something of value even though you spend money. It's a ridiculous system.

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

I enjoyed the write up from ZOS on it. More so this part:

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?
MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

As we near 90 pages. I wonder one thing.

Why in the world, is this a forum thread that needs to exist in the current year?

because we either need to do some serious necroing or have a time machine...

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

I spend my Crowns on things that I find fitting for my characters. If the exclusive Crown Crate mounts are not very "normal", I won't even want anything that is in the box at their introduction. Even if stuff I want is inside the Crown Crates, I will find something else I want because I do not support this kind of system.

The hate is because, while buying them is optional, the existence of such system do not necessarily affect solely the people who participate on it.
Like happened in other games, the shift of the development focus is a concern that the people who saw this happening before have. We are afraid that these things will make ZOS so much money that they will become the focus with time, because they selling boxes makes more money than selling DLC. Because we saw this happening in other games.
We are afraid that, to make them more attractive and make more players buy them, that eventually not only cosmetic stuff will be in there. Or that the cosmetic stuff in the box will be tradeable eventually (after all, ZOS sent some mails last week regarding a gifting system for the Crown Store that they are testing), and then people will make some mad gold with those limited drops.

And if in the end everything happens like that and our complaints are worth nothing, well, I much prefer the "At least I tried" feeling than the "I trusted you! How could you?" feeling.

ThePaleItalian

Abeille wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

I spend my Crowns on things that I find fitting for my characters. If the exclusive Crown Crate mounts are not very "normal", I won't even want anything that is in the box at their introduction. Even if stuff I want is inside the Crown Crates, I will find something else I want because I do not support this kind of system.

The hate is because, while buying them is optional, the existence of such system do not necessarily affect solely the people who participate on it.
Like happened in other games, the shift of the development focus is a concern that the people who saw this happening before have. We are afraid that these things will make ZOS so much money that they will become the focus with time, because they selling boxes makes more money than selling DLC. Because we saw this happening in other games.
We are afraid that, to make them more attractive and make more players buy them, that eventually not only cosmetic stuff will be in there. Or that the cosmetic stuff in the box will be tradeable eventually (after all, ZOS sent some mails last week regarding a gifting system for the Crown Store that they are testing), and then people will make some mad gold with those limited drops.

And if in the end everything happens like that and our complaints are worth nothing, well, I much prefer the "At least I tried" feeling than the "I trusted you! How could you?" feeling.

See that I understand and agree with. I keep seeing threads with "Money hungry ZOS". I mean they are releasing content constantly. After the last on all the load screens and bugs I was experiencing on PS4 are gone. I am very happy with that. Having a game with no sub option does goes this way. WoW has a sub, but they have the WoW tokens which people freaked out about and all that became was a gold sink for people who had millions of it. I even bought some with in game gold, but I stopped playing that game because of year and a half DLC droughts and cookie cutter classes. Hence why I will continue to support ZOS with a sub.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lets look at it this way:

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns.

I am just using this as an example. Lets say you buy a crown box for 400 crowns and get all of that.... are you happy with your purchase?

I have crowns laying around, I am subbed and I will probably buy 1 or 2.

If a "whale" or someone wants to drop 1,000$ on said boxes, let them... seriously, how in the world is ZOS supposed to continue to make money for this game? You wanna go back to Sub only?? Doubt it, forums would blow up for "ZOMG, 15$ for a crap game is QQ...hate you ZOS you sucks!!!!"

So no sub now but some crown COSMETIC stuff.... wanna know the response to that? Look above ^^^

I got the RNG.. its in every single MMO.. but stop the end of the world stuff until they hit. If you don't wanna buy one, then don't.

I am pretty sure 90% of you have bought something from the crown store. So look back at what you spent and what you spent your crowns on.... stop being a hypocrite just because you don't "like" it.

@ThePaleItalian
You've entirely missed the point of the thread. Buying things from the Crown Store and hating gambling boxes doesn't make you a hypocrite. When you buy something normally from the Crown Store, you don't gamble on whether or not you get the item, you just get the item. If you buy a gambling box, however, you aren't guaranteed to get anything beyond some nonsense consumables. That's the problem, you aren't getting something of value even though you spend money. It's a ridiculous system.

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

I enjoyed the write up from ZOS on it. More so this part:

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?
MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

@ThePaleItalian

Every MMO has a system of monetization, yes, but ESO already had a great one: the Crown Store. Buying things from the Crown Store was also optional, but it's a way to support the game and is a more or less honest exchange of money for goods. The problem with the gambling boxes is that it is not an honest exchange of money for goods. Unless you actually have a use for every single Crown Store consumable item, you would really just be buying the gambling boxes for a chance at exclusive mounts, pets, and costumes. Therefore, whether or not your purchase has actual value is subject to standard probabilistic distributions.

For an example, let us say that some rare item, the one you actually want, has a drop chance of 1%. We know from probability that there is no number of boxes you can buy to guarantee that it will drop, but you want to know how to increase your probability of getting the item to 99%. If you don't know the math behind it, then long story short you need to buy 459 boxes in order to get a 99% success rate. And even then, on average 1 out of every 100 people who buy 459 boxes STILL won't get the thing they came for. I did a great writeup on how RNG works in this thread.

So that's why I'm mad about gambling boxes. I'm perfectly happy to buy tons of Crown Store stuff, but I need to actually know what I'm getting and buy it at a fixed price. I wouldn't have bought my Senche mounts if they were being sold for anywhere from 4 to 4000 dollars based on an RNG roll, and I certainly wouldn't have bought them if there was a chance I STILL wouldn't get them even after spending 4000 dollars. It is absolutely inappropriate to only be selling a chance at getting good items. That is gambling, and ZOS has no business running a gambling service. They should leave that to actual regulated casinos and keep it out of the game.

And again, it's not about pay to win, I've never expressed concern about that. The problem is strictly about not having an honest exchange of money for goods.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

As we near 90 pages. I wonder one thing.

Why in the world, is this a forum thread that needs to exist in the current year?

It would not make sense to exist 10 years ago? For starters, people would be asking what "ESO" was.

Other than that, it exists now because now is when it needs to exist.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Bottom line, it is their company to do with it as they please. They will live with the decisions and directions that they take THEIR company in.

This much is true. Perhaps the better quote would be: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Means that, while people in the forum might think ZOS should do something, ultimately, they can't make ZOS do it.

Fatalistic? Maybe. It is why this thread is here. The people who are against this idea have no other constructive recourse but to speak out against it and let ZOS know that they don't like the idea. This is a relatively peaceful demonstration, and I would do nothing to change that.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

It is optional and cosmetic only, yes, but that does not mean that it won't impact people who routinely buy stuff in the store. That is the bigger issue. This has to change the way they put items in the store, or there won't be a reason to buy the Crown Crates. Whether or not an individual buys the Crates is unimportant. Anyone who routinely buys from the Store will see a change.

I like the Crown Store the way it is today. It works. I can buy what I want, and I do buy what I want. I picked up the Dark Shaman costume on TWO accounts because I wanted that costume. I really don't want the Store to change in this manner. I would like to continue to buy what I want. I will only buy it if it isn't in a Crate, and isn't priced to "punish" me for not buying Crates. In the end, what it means for me is that there will be less to spend Crowns on in 2017, which I guess means I don't need to buy Crowns.

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lets look at it this way:

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns.

I am just using this as an example. Lets say you buy a crown box for 400 crowns and get all of that.... are you happy with your purchase?

I have crowns laying around, I am subbed and I will probably buy 1 or 2.

If a "whale" or someone wants to drop 1,000$ on said boxes, let them... seriously, how in the world is ZOS supposed to continue to make money for this game? You wanna go back to Sub only?? Doubt it, forums would blow up for "ZOMG, 15$ for a crap game is QQ...hate you ZOS you sucks!!!!"

So no sub now but some crown COSMETIC stuff.... wanna know the response to that? Look above ^^^

I got the RNG.. its in every single MMO.. but stop the end of the world stuff until they hit. If you don't wanna buy one, then don't.

I am pretty sure 90% of you have bought something from the crown store. So look back at what you spent and what you spent your crowns on.... stop being a hypocrite just because you don't "like" it.

I bought the lioness. I bought the panther. I bought mimic stones for crafting.

Was I happy with my purchases? Yes, yes I was.

I want the clouded senche. I want the leopard senche.

I buy a box for 400 crowns. I get

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns. And I get the limited offer Jester's Costume. That I never bought, didn't want and can't trade.

Am I happy with my purchase?

No. I didn't want the scroll, the potions, or the hatchling. Or the costume. If had had wanted them I would have purchased them at their full prices. Am I happy with spending 400 crowns to get items I don't want and won't use that I didn't buy in the first place? No, no I'm not.

Would I personally be happy if the game went back to a sub? Actually, yes, I would. Might not be a popular feeling, but its my opinion. The company had more at risk when the game was sub only. They had to do at least some marginal maintenance and work to keep the subs. Now they can throw out more crown store stuff, and some people *will* pay for it. I'm not sure what is the focus for the new content anymore, but new crown store items, and more RNGesus boxes will be coming.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Okay, we can all accept the fact that there is randomness in everything.

What my complaint is (and you know this very well) that we will now be forced to Gamble on mounts, costumes, hairstyles etc. (and most likely the best that are made from then on out), with no guarantee on even getting said items. We could literally have to spend thousands of dollars to get the cosmetic we would like to buy whereas before it would have a set price.

I know you are trolling me but that's ok. The point is what's important.

And of course, no one is forcing someone to buy the gambling lockboxes. It's the sleaziness of this newest tactic and it prevents collectors like myself from continuing our collection... Unless of course I want to pump countless dollars into a Gambling System to maybe possibly hopefully on an off chance get one just one item I may want, not to mention the seasons worth of other cosmetics that will only be available via the gambling box.

It is an insurmountable pay wall for the average gamer.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Okay, we can all accept the fact that there is randomness in everything.

What my complaint is (and you know this very well) that we will now be forced to Gamble on mounts, costumes, hairstyles etc. (and most likely the best that are made from then on out), with no guarantee on even getting said items. We could literally have to spend thousands of dollars to get the cosmetic we would like to buy whereas before it would have a set price.

I know you are trolling me but that's ok. The point is what's important.

And of course, no one is forcing someone to buy the gambling lockboxes. It's the sleaziness of this newest tactic and it prevents collectors like myself from continuing our collection... Unless of course I want to pump countless dollars into a Gambling System to maybe possibly hopefully on an off chance get one just one item I may want, not to mention the seasons worth of other cosmetics that will only be available via the gambling box.

It is an insurmountable pay wall for the average gamer.

no, i'm not trolling. i am viewing this whole debate from the standpoint of having played a wide variety of online games since the early 1980's and never once felt the urge to spend real money on cosmetic digital items. not once. ever. i cannot see how my enjoyment of this, or any other, virtual world would be enhanced by my toon having a tattoo or big hair.

and that word comes up time and time again...... forced. forced?

what you have to buy that hairstyle or the kid gets it?

also there is the ongoing complaint of people not understanding the mechanism for it, they would be exploited, mugged, ripped off. really? the core gaming demographic is 30 or over.... they got that far without a brain in their heads?

the people not complaining about this are all stupid, ignorant etc but you can't live without a digital costume?

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Okay, we can all accept the fact that there is randomness in everything.

What my complaint is (and you know this very well) that we will now be forced to Gamble on mounts, costumes, hairstyles etc. (and most likely the best that are made from then on out), with no guarantee on even getting said items. We could literally have to spend thousands of dollars to get the cosmetic we would like to buy whereas before it would have a set price.

I know you are trolling me but that's ok. The point is what's important.

And of course, no one is forcing someone to buy the gambling lockboxes. It's the sleaziness of this newest tactic and it prevents collectors like myself from continuing our collection... Unless of course I want to pump countless dollars into a Gambling System to maybe possibly hopefully on an off chance get one just one item I may want, not to mention the seasons worth of other cosmetics that will only be available via the gambling box.

It is an insurmountable pay wall for the average gamer.

no, i'm not trolling. i am viewing this whole debate from the standpoint of having played a wide variety of online games since the early 1980's and never once felt the urge to spend real money on cosmetic digital items. not once. ever. i cannot see how my enjoyment of this, or any other, virtual world would be enhanced by my toon having a tattoo or big hair.

and that word comes up time and time again...... forced. forced?

what you have to buy that hairstyle or the kid gets it?

also there is the ongoing complaint of people not understanding the mechanism for it, they would be exploited, mugged, ripped off. really? the core gaming demographic is 30 or over.... they got that far without a brain in their heads?

the people not complaining about this are all stupid, ignorant etc but you can't live without a digital costume?

Thank you for being one of the FEW reasonable people on this thread.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Okay, we can all accept the fact that there is randomness in everything.

What my complaint is (and you know this very well) that we will now be forced to Gamble on mounts, costumes, hairstyles etc. (and most likely the best that are made from then on out), with no guarantee on even getting said items. We could literally have to spend thousands of dollars to get the cosmetic we would like to buy whereas before it would have a set price.

I know you are trolling me but that's ok. The point is what's important.

And of course, no one is forcing someone to buy the gambling lockboxes. It's the sleaziness of this newest tactic and it prevents collectors like myself from continuing our collection... Unless of course I want to pump countless dollars into a Gambling System to maybe possibly hopefully on an off chance get one just one item I may want, not to mention the seasons worth of other cosmetics that will only be available via the gambling box.

It is an insurmountable pay wall for the average gamer.

no, i'm not trolling. i am viewing this whole debate from the standpoint of having played a wide variety of online games since the early 1980's and never once felt the urge to spend real money on cosmetic digital items. not once. ever. i cannot see how my enjoyment of this, or any other, virtual world would be enhanced by my toon having a tattoo or big hair.

and that word comes up time and time again...... forced. forced?

what you have to buy that hairstyle or the kid gets it?

also there is the ongoing complaint of people not understanding the mechanism for it, they would be exploited, mugged, ripped off. really? the core gaming demographic is 30 or over.... they got that far without a brain in their heads?

the people not complaining about this are all stupid, ignorant etc but you can't live without a digital costume?

Thank you for being one of the FEW reasonable people on this thread.

Sweety there's plenty of reasonable people, you just refuse to engage with them.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So even though my questions were NOT in the realm of what I think about this subject the powers that be decided to lock that thread and shunt me back over here. So, being left with not choice, there are my questions then and hopefully the OP ofTHIS thread will forgive the tangent!



So there' this article out now. mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html

While I personally find it disappointing that instead of actually engaging the customers here they chose to do a PR article (which would have been fine if they had ALSO chosen to engage their customers here) I found that it also left me with more questions than answers. Here are some of the things that were not answered and that many of us would like specific answers to.

Matt Firor says, "Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set."

You've also already said there would be special, exclusive mounts that will only be available via the RNG boxes.

So what we want to know is this...

1. Will there be costumes that are ONLY available via RNG boxes and that have NEVER been offered in the crown store before?
2. Will there be hairstyles that will ONLY be available via the RNG boxes?
3. Will there be tattoos that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
4. Will there be makeup that is ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
5. Will there be scars that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
6. Will there be pets that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
7. Will there be adornments that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
8. Will there be dyes that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
9. Will there be emotes that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
10. Will there be personalities that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
11. Will there be new hair colors that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
12. Will there be polymorphs that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?
13. Will there be trinkets that are ONLY available via the RNG boxes?

Also, regarding the "gems" Firor had this to say, "There is a very good chance – especially if you are a regular collector of Crown Store items – that you will receive a collectible from a Crown Crate that you already have. When that happens, instead of a duplicate item, you will receive a new form of currency, the Crown Gem. You can then spend Crown Gems in a new section of the Crown Store where you can purchase the item that you want – including Crown Crate-exclusive items. The gem store will contain all of the collectibles available in all the Crown Crates, so you will be able to acquire the collectible you want, even if you don’t get it directly from a Crown Crate."

This does not address players like me who have deliberately passed on many costumes or other items because I did not like them or want them. Yet if I get one of these items that I did not ever want in the first place it appears that I am stuck with it and cannot "trade it in" for "gems" to put towards an item I DO want. Is this in fact the case?

These are the questions I, and many others, would like the answers to @ZOS_MattFiror , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom . Can you please answer them? Doing so will likely allay much of the discontent your customers have been feeling about this new and under-explained development. Thank you.

Answers 1-13 is yes.

Yes you are stuck with it. On top of that you will have to keep buying crates to try to get duplicates to get more gems to have enough to buy something.

Never do this, it will never be worthwhile. This is exactly what they want though. There is no harm in it though. Can't be because their motto is do no harm. I can't believe that interview.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

wolfxspice wrote: »

i'm on xbox, i saw a dwarven sphere pet for the first time a few days ago, i asked a friend about it, she came over from pc, she told me that you got that for subbing to eso for the first 6 months, immediately she says a few of her friends left the game as soon as the engine guardian monster set came out, she told me that they felt like the devs didn't appreciate the time they gave to it.

i'm sure that pet will be in that box.

Isbilen wrote: »

Will these boxes include the Striped Senche-Tiger mount and the old loyalty pets?

They've said, "no." So you'll probably have to wait a little while before they change their mind on that bit too.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Lets look at it this way:

Crown XP Scroll - 300 Crowns
10 pack of tri-potions - 200 Crowns
Haj Mota Hatching - 1000 Crowns.

I am just using this as an example. Lets say you buy a crown box for 400 crowns and get all of that.... are you happy with your purchase?

I have crowns laying around, I am subbed and I will probably buy 1 or 2.

If a "whale" or someone wants to drop 1,000$ on said boxes, let them... seriously, how in the world is ZOS supposed to continue to make money for this game? You wanna go back to Sub only?? Doubt it, forums would blow up for "ZOMG, 15$ for a crap game is QQ...hate you ZOS you sucks!!!!"

So no sub now but some crown COSMETIC stuff.... wanna know the response to that? Look above ^^^

I got the RNG.. its in every single MMO.. but stop the end of the world stuff until they hit. If you don't wanna buy one, then don't.

I am pretty sure 90% of you have bought something from the crown store. So look back at what you spent and what you spent your crowns on.... stop being a hypocrite just because you don't "like" it.

@ThePaleItalian
You've entirely missed the point of the thread. Buying things from the Crown Store and hating gambling boxes doesn't make you a hypocrite. When you buy something normally from the Crown Store, you don't gamble on whether or not you get the item, you just get the item. If you buy a gambling box, however, you aren't guaranteed to get anything beyond some nonsense consumables. That's the problem, you aren't getting something of value even though you spend money. It's a ridiculous system.

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

I enjoyed the write up from ZOS on it. More so this part:

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?
MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

To answer your questions..

Yes I think they should make some tweaks.

Yes I'm upset that I don't know what I'm getting. As well, there is a very real possibility of something I want being locked behind gambling boxes.

I spend my crowns on costume, mounts, pets and other vanity cosmetic items because that makes the game more enjoyable to me. Part of the game to me is looking good and wearing/riding something that fits the scenario I am currently in.

Essentially, what some view as optional is a huge part of the game for some people. It's more important to me to have fun - which for me includes looking good and fitting into the scenario, than it is to get on a leaderboard, kill a ton of people in PvP etc.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Silence is allowance. I refuse to allow it.

Except they don't really need your permission, nor your blessing :-)
In this case, silence is allowance but speaking up is a waste of saliva / typing time.

...you spit on your keyboard? What the snot!?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

the people not complaining about this are all stupid, ignorant etc but you can't live without a digital costume?

I can. I don't have to be happy about it, but I can certainly deal.

That said, simply missing out on cosmetic elements for your characters isn't the real problem here.

As I've said before, in this thread, lucky bags distort the development pipeline. They become far more appealing, financially, and developers, inevitably, spend more time and resources on those then the base game, because they become the primary source of revenue for the title.

Could ZOS resist this siren's call? Yeah, theoretically, but I wouldn't hold my breath on this. I've seen a lot of developers over the years realize how much money they can make with these things, and get locked into chasing them. It doesn't mean they're doomed, but it's close.

Also, I've yet to see a developer who could resist going P2W with bags. It's possible that ZOS might be able to resist the impulse, but ultimately, the lure of neat looking goodies just isn't enough to get people to cough up cash. Sometimes the statistical advantages you get are subtle (TOR is a good example) and you'll even have people arguing, "no, it's really cosmetic, they're not selling power," but you can still end up with access to statistical advantages over other players.

Which is, incidentally, where we still see discussions about the Imperial Race being P2W. You're not "winning," but there's still an argument to be made against a race with a health and stam bonus. Used to be, they were a harder sell, because regen was better than max stats, but now that the pendulum has flipped again...

Kendaric

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

I enjoyed the write up from ZOS on it. More so this part:

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?
MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

I only buy costumes and mounts that fit my characters. The problem I have with the boxes are as follows:

a) I have no use for consumables
b) Any costume that doesn't fit my any of characters doesn't interest me at all. I don't want it in my collection. The same applies to mounts and pets.
c) They will release box exclusive stuff that I cannot get normally from the store
d) Assumption: Based on what happened in other games, the majority of new items will become box exclusive.

I couldn't care less about p2w, as I don't PvP or engage in endgame PvE. I quest, explore and RP and I want my characters to look good, that's why cosmetics are important to me.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Hilarious!

Yes please! If I begin to purchase Crown Crates and drive myself to bankruptcy and ruin...

I am blaming ZOS for implementing this feature.

I am blaming you posters for not protecting me.

I am free of all blame and responsibility

NEWSFLASH!! - If I had a gambling addiction, I'd be gambling. Not playing MMO's. Sure go ahead, I bet there is that one story where a man lost his job and family to MMO gambling addiction. Out of multi-millions of players.

Heck, I'm sure MMO addiction is more prevalent than MMO Gambling. Seems to be a lot of MMO addiction going on here.

Many gamers (not all) have never really gambled and probably never would... Cause they like video games not slot machines or cards w/e. The point is that the game they play is now exposing paying customers to gambling when they bought a video game to play a video game and not gamble.

MMO addiction is separate from this issue and not really a part of this discussion, although valid in its own right.

every gamer who has played a game in which a random number generator has been used to determine loot or drops or whatever has gambled..... to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Dude... Seriously? I am not even remotely talking about a system of RNG built in to a game... I am talking about GAMBLING. Your response is disingenuous my friend i.e you knowingly applied a strawman argument to divert attention from a valid point.

There is randomness in everything... Grats, you nailed it.

and what is gambling other than taking a punt at the odds?

Okay, we can all accept the fact that there is randomness in everything.

What my complaint is (and you know this very well) that we will now be forced to Gamble on mounts, costumes, hairstyles etc. (and most likely the best that are made from then on out), with no guarantee on even getting said items. We could literally have to spend thousands of dollars to get the cosmetic we would like to buy whereas before it would have a set price.

I know you are trolling me but that's ok. The point is what's important.

And of course, no one is forcing someone to buy the gambling lockboxes. It's the sleaziness of this newest tactic and it prevents collectors like myself from continuing our collection... Unless of course I want to pump countless dollars into a Gambling System to maybe possibly hopefully on an off chance get one just one item I may want, not to mention the seasons worth of other cosmetics that will only be available via the gambling box.

It is an insurmountable pay wall for the average gamer.

no, i'm not trolling. i am viewing this whole debate from the standpoint of having played a wide variety of online games since the early 1980's and never once felt the urge to spend real money on cosmetic digital items. not once. ever. i cannot see how my enjoyment of this, or any other, virtual world would be enhanced by my toon having a tattoo or big hair.

and that word comes up time and time again...... forced. forced?

what you have to buy that hairstyle or the kid gets it?

also there is the ongoing complaint of people not understanding the mechanism for it, they would be exploited, mugged, ripped off. really? the core gaming demographic is 30 or over.... they got that far without a brain in their heads?

the people not complaining about this are all stupid, ignorant etc but you can't live without a digital costume?

OK, you understand the desire to collect something, correct? You understand that there are gamers out there that do care about their character's appearance? Do you understand that? Do you craft an outfit in game to make yourself look cool? Or are you just a mish mash of various pieces and colors with no real theme? Did you spend time in the character creator honing the perfect look for your character? If you didn't, can you understand that many, many other people do?

Do you also understand that if I wanted to gamble I would go to a casino? Not play an mmoRPG.

I get where you are coming from, I really do. In a single player game there would be no market for these kinds of digital pixels, but in a game where many others will see your avatar there most certainly is a market for these pixels. You are actually, by very obvious statistics, a minority in gaming terms = You don't care how your character looks. Congratualtions

You say you don't understand but I think you do understand, you just don't care, nor do you personally have a taste for "cosmetics" in a video game. Fair enough.

Prior to these lock boxes there has been a rough set of prices for mounts and costumes... Following these lock boxes that price is out the window, it could be anywhere from $4 to $4000 depending only on the person's wallet size. That is not a fair exchange, that takes advantage of people who don't have the best self control (just one more lock box, just one more hit).

For me, personally, costumes, whether obtainable in game through grinding or in store via cash, have been about completionist play... Just like hitting achievement goals. Now that is a huge portion of the game that I enjoyed that has now, effectively, excluded me from achieving... Because I won't gamble in an MMO.

That is why I think this kind of tacky cash grab shouldn't be implemented in this game. And since you don't care... Then you shouldn't begrudge me my dislike of this system.

Mercutio

For those who don't understand why this is a 'big deal' to some of us because 'it's only cosmetic goods':

I understand your confusion. I get why it baffles you.

People play MMORPGs for a vast variety of reasons. For you, it may be the thrill of PvP or the challenge of a structured raid.

For many of us, the primary thrill is experiencing a vicarious fantasy life through an online avatar. We may suck at PvP, detest raiding, but we take great pride and pleasure from making our avatars cool looking, unique, colorful, etc.

Feel free to call it "dressing up our dolls" . I'm a 45-year-old man and I have no shame in joking about it myself. But at the end of the day I do spend hundreds of dollars a year on The Elder Scrolls Online and other games. Hey, it's cheaper than cocaine .

So when we are told 'really awesome cosmetic stuff is coming down the pipeline' we get excited! When we subsequently learn that 'you will probably never get it though unless you spend huge wads of cash, and even then there is no guarantee' we become disappointed, frustrated, and yes - betrayed.

We feel betrayed because, up until now, the rules were clear, simple and fair: ZOS put items up for sale in the Cash Shop. If we liked them, we bought them. Some of the goods may have seemed a bit steep in price, but that was their prerogative.

Now the agreement is being changed, and the changes do not benefit us. They are not clear, simple or fair. We have no idea what the drop rate will be, a new currency is being instituted in Crown Gems, and for those of us who have spent a lot of money in the Crown Store it is very disappointing to think something super neat may come along but we won't have much of a chance to obtain it.

Again, none of this may seem like a big deal to you. But understand that it is a big deal to us, just as PvP balancing or whatever is your personal passion is to you.

I know I speak for a lot of people when I say that until now the Cash Shop has been ideal, suited our needs and desires, and engendered loyalty to The Elder Scrolls Online in us. It is frustrating that ZOS would risk that over what is, frankly, seen as a gauche money grab. And it is unnecessary. There are much better ways to increase revenue that would also enhance player loyalty instead of lessen it. Many such alternatives have been proposed in this thread.

Yes, this is a 'big deal' to us. I don't expect non-cosmetic players to empathize with us, but perhaps now you at least understand where we are coming from.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

For those who don't understand why this is a 'big deal' to some of us because 'it's only cosmetic goods':

I understand your confusion. I get why it baffles you.

People play MMORPGs for a vast variety of reasons. For you, it may be the thrill of PvP or the challenge of a structured raid.

For many of us, the primary thrill is experiencing a vicarious fantasy life through an online avatar. We may suck at PvP, detest raiding, but we take great pride and pleasure from making our avatars cool looking, unique, colorful, etc.

Feel free to call it "dressing up our dolls" . I'm a 45-year-old man and I have no shame in joking about it myself. But at the end of the day I do spend hundreds of dollars a year on The Elder Scrolls Online and other games. Hey, it's cheaper than cocaine .

So when we are told 'really awesome cosmetic stuff is coming down the pipeline' we get excited! When we subsequently learn that 'you will probably never get it though unless you spend huge wads of cash, and even then there is no guarantee' we become disappointed, frustrated, and yes - betrayed.

We feel betrayed because, up until now, the rules were clear, simple and fair: ZOS put items up for sale in the Cash Shop. If we liked them, we bought them. Some of the goods may have seemed a bit steep in price, but that was their prerogative.

Now the agreement is being changed, and the changes do not benefit us. They are not clear, simple or fair. We have no idea what the drop rate will be, a new currency is being instituted in Crown Gems, and for those of us who have spent a lot of money in the Crown Store it is very disappointing to think something super neat may come along but we won't have much of a chance to obtain it.

Again, none of this may seem like a big deal to you. But understand that it is a big deal to us, just as PvP balancing or whatever is your personal passion is to you.

I know I speak for a lot of people when I say that until now the Cash Shop has been ideal, suited our needs and desires, and engendered loyalty to The Elder Scrolls Online in us. It is frustrating that ZOS would risk that over what is, frankly, seen as a gauche money grab. And it is unnecessary. There are much better ways to increase revenue that would also enhance player loyalty instead of lessen it. Many such alternatives have been proposed in this thread.

Yes, this is a 'big deal' to us. I don't expect non-cosmetic players to empathize with us, but perhaps now you at least understand where we are coming from.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

^This times a million. Pretty much what I've been trying to say w/o the condescending tone

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

If they brought back the two mounts I missed but want for outright purchase in the store and gave them a price, whatever it might be, I would be able to decide if the price was worth it to me. Then I could make my decision to buy them or not. Even if it were 5,000 crowns each. I would know what I was buying, and decide on whether the items were worth the price, to me.

Saying the rngesus boxes are just 400 crowns, with a *rare* chance of getting a limited mount OR other limited costumes and the even slimmer shot at getting a special rngesus box item you can't get any other way is really misrepresenting the odds you will really get what you wanted, and not consumables you don't use or costumes you don't want. Yes, one box is less than 5000 crowns. If you buy 5000 crowns worth of boxes and still don't get what you want, which one would be cheaper?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Kendaric wrote: »

I couldn't care less about p2w, as I don't PvP or engage in endgame PvE. I quest, explore and RP and I want my characters to look good, that's why cosmetics are important to me.

Based on prior experience, on a long enough timescale P2W systems affect the difficulty of new content.

Meaning if you opted out, you'll get shoved towards the store anyway.

MornaBaine

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Kendaric wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I agree, I am not saying I agree with the system 100%. But its something that is totally optional to you, there is no affect on game play what so ever. Every MMO has a system. Star Wars, FFRR, WoW, GW2. The list goes on.

I enjoyed the write up from ZOS on it. More so this part:

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?
MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

Do I think they should make some tweeks? Sure. Are you upset just because you don't know what you are getting? Or because the cost? My question to people is this. What do you spend your crowns on? Limited edition stuff? Motifs? Mounts? I just really can't understand so much hate for something that is purely optional.

I only buy costumes and mounts that fit my characters. The problem I have with the boxes are as follows:

a) I have no use for consumables
b) Any costume that doesn't fit my any of characters doesn't interest me at all. I don't want it in my collection. The same applies to mounts and pets.
c) They will release box exclusive stuff that I cannot get normally from the store
d) Assumption: Based on what happened in other games, the majority of new items will become box exclusive.

I couldn't care less about p2w, as I don't PvP or engage in endgame PvE. I quest, explore and RP and I want my characters to look good, that's why cosmetics are important to me.

So absolutely ALL of this. At the end of the day EVERYTHING about a game is optional. No one forces us to play. But eventually bad business practices will force us to quit. RNG boxes, regardless of what is or isn't in them, are a bad business practice. And ZOS is even holding out on being transparent enough to tell us what will and will not be in them. That does nt bode well for those of us who like cosmetics and consider them part of our game play.

MornaBaine

No, don't ever add these into the game.

So I would like to know if the following items are going to be "exclusive" RNG box items and is this why they are still not in the crown store for direct purchase?

Iselin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I found a good read about lockboxes in an article by Justin Olivetti, senior reporter at Massively, from just 4 short years ago.

A quote:

"Lockboxes cheapen any MMO in which they appear.

People care deeply about their MMOs, sometimes to the point of silliness, but the emotion is genuine. The games we love we want to see succeed, thrive, and live for a long time. What we don't generally want is for someone with a polyester sports coat, pinkie rings, and greased-back hair stomping into our beloved playgrounds and "classing up the joint" by throwing slot machines everywhere.

Lockboxes are tacky. There, I said it."

https://www.engadget.com/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Iselin wrote: »

I found a good read about lockboxes in an article by Justin Olivetti, senior reporter at Massively, from just 4 short years ago.

A quote:

"Lockboxes cheapen any MMO in which they appear.

People care deeply about their MMOs, sometimes to the point of silliness, but the emotion is genuine. The games we love we want to see succeed, thrive, and live for a long time. What we don't generally want is for someone with a polyester sports coat, pinkie rings, and greased-back hair stomping into our beloved playgrounds and "classing up the joint" by throwing slot machines everywhere.

Lockboxes are tacky. There, I said it."

https://www.engadget.com/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/

Man, I miss Massively. And not just because they were probably the source for Matt Firor's "no lockboxes" quote.

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

I found a good read about lockboxes in an article by Justin Olivetti, senior reporter at Massively, from just 4 short years ago.

A quote:

"Lockboxes cheapen any MMO in which they appear.

People care deeply about their MMOs, sometimes to the point of silliness, but the emotion is genuine. The games we love we want to see succeed, thrive, and live for a long time. What we don't generally want is for someone with a polyester sports coat, pinkie rings, and greased-back hair stomping into our beloved playgrounds and "classing up the joint" by throwing slot machines everywhere.

Lockboxes are tacky. There, I said it."

https://www.engadget.com/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/

Man, I miss Massively. And not just because they were probably the source for Matt Firor's "no lockboxes" quote.

http://massivelyop.com/