What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

RazielSR · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Avenias wrote: »

U guys are assuming loot box= pay to win, or a step towards p2w. Its not cos u get only cosmetic items

Oh well yes we were assuming a lot when the change in subscriptions model happened months ago b2p announcement too.

Avenias · August 2016

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

RazielSR wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

U guys are assuming loot box= pay to win, or a step towards p2w. Its not cos u get only cosmetic items

Oh well yes we were assuming a lot when the change in subscriptions model happened months ago b2p announcement too.

U guys are being very unreasonable. Its just cosmetic items. Dont tell ppl how to spend their money.

RazielSR · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

Sunver · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE!

Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

RazielSR · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

hehe...Well here in the Mediterranean(Valencia-Spain) summer its all about beach and sun XD. I always got sick of it at the end anyway.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Sunver wrote: »

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE! Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

It is rather more money for the investors, who want to see a little of the money back before the whole thing will go down the drain - that game is in development for far too long to have such a low ROI - this investment is a fail seen from the investor's perspective and IMO ZOS got now a little pressured to make some acceptable ROI happen to ease the pain of having invested into the wrong thing and the wrong people. That players love ESO does not mean that it would be an economical success, it is rather a disaster, if you consider that a proper investment would have increased the investment 8-fold in this time - this is not any near to happen with ESO and maybe it is time to bail out ... and squeeze as much money as possible out of it before.

Avenias · August 2016

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

RazielSR wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

hehe...Well here in the Mediterranean(Valencia-Spain) summer its all about beach and sun XD. I always got sick of it at the end anyway.

Hot spanish chicks in bikini.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

RazielSR wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

hehe...Well here in the Mediterranean(Valencia-Spain) summer its all about beach and sun XD. I always got sick of it at the end anyway.

Do you know what is funny in this context - the local idiom here to leave in winter and stay in the northern hemisphere during winter is "we are going to spain" - even they most likely don't, but that is the idom for that here.

Well the locals do not go into the ocean here - white sharks - just tourists dare it or have no clue that those are in these waters.

Mercutio · August 2016

The problem we have here is a failure to communicate. We all have different opinions on what 'Pay to Win' constitutes. Speaking only for myself, I see nothing in the Cash Shop that crosses the Rubicon on the march to P2W City.

But let's for a moment not frame it in a binary, yes or no, fashion because I believe that is where the disagreements come from. Perhaps we can settle on middle ground, what I call 'Pay for Convenience', for the items mentioned such as the Vampire/Werewolf skill lines. XP scrolls, et al.

I've both done the quest for the Werewolf line and bought it in the cash shop. It's not a difficult quest, requiring only level 30 or so last I checked. And level 30 could probably be achieved in less than a week (I wouldn't know, I'm very leisurely in my game play as well as an Altaholic). In essence, I paid $15 to not have to do a quest twice because the prospect of such seemed tedious to me. But anyone can do it manually. There is no pay wall stopping them. To me that makes it PfC.

I do buy XP Scrolls. I buy them mainly to help with leveling up crafting. But again, I have leveled up crafters to 50 without the scrolls. I save myself some time, once again to avoid tedium. Still, no pay wall, so PfC.

The argument that really caught my attention and gave me pause was the one talking about zones locked behind ESO +. Those who can afford $15/month do have an advantage. But is this P2W?

I would argue not. I view the DLC as being distinct from the base game. What we all purchased at launch was the base game, nothing more (well, the Imperial for some). Should some fresh faced gamer start playing ESO tomorrow, that is all he or she will have as well without the sub. Equal footing.

I offer that the DLC is not P2W nor is it PfC. I postulate that they exist to make ZOS money. They need some sort of continued revenue stream from the playerbase as very few will buy the game twice. They have incentivised subscribing at a very reasonable fee, or one can purchase the DLC outright. Those who do one or the other admittedly have an advantage, but that is a byproduct of, not the intent (which is very important to me). It is hard to argue against ZOS making money - without their ability to do so we have no game to play. And the DLC is not needed to play the base game so many of us enjoyed at launch.

Look, I am no apologist for ESO. I don't believe they need one. I see nothing in the store, or upcoming, that fits my definition of Pay to Win. What I do see, and support at this moment in time, is cosmetics, Pay for Convenience, and legitimate DLC that merits a separate purchase or subscription. I find the subscription in particular very fair, one of the best values in the MMORPG economic biosphere across the board.

The only problem I have with Crown Crates is that it harms the Completionist Player, as I have mentioned in other posts, with its lure of 'unique items not available elsewhere'. That is something ZOS needs to address, and I believe they will. Yet even if they don't, said Crates are still just PfC at worst. They offer nothing (nor does anything in the store at current beyond the DLC) that cannot be acquired through an investment of time or that isn't purely cosmetic.

My personal opinion of Lucky Bags is really not relevant (I find them tacky for whatever that is worth). ZOS has a right to make money and as long as they do so without damaging the integrity of the game I'll support them as long as I am enjoying their product.

I have no doubt they are monitoring this thread and will address it through official channels in the near future. Give them time to do that.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Avenias wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

hehe...Well here in the Mediterranean(Valencia-Spain) summer its all about beach and sun XD. I always got sick of it at the end anyway.

Hot spanish chicks in bikini.

Well, it is europe, they most likely just wear a bottom and are topless - that is quite normal in Europe.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

The problem we have here is a failure to communicate. We all have different opinions on what 'Pay to Win' constitutes. Speaking only for myself, I see nothing in the Cash Shop that crosses the Rubicon on the march to P2W City.

But let's for a moment not frame it in a binary, yes or no, fashion because I believe that is where the disagreements come from. Perhaps we can settle on middle ground, what I call 'Pay for Convenience', for the items mentioned such as the Vampire/Werewolf skill lines. XP scrolls, et al.

I've both done the quest for the Werewolf line and bought it in the cash shop. It's not a difficult quest, requiring only level 30 or so last I checked. And level 30 could probably be achieved in less than a week (I wouldn't know, I'm very leisurely in my game play as well as an Altaholic). In essence, I paid $15 to not have to do a quest twice because the prospect of such seemed tedious to me. But anyone can do it manually. There is no pay wall stopping them. To me that makes it PfC.

I do buy XP Scrolls. I buy them mainly to help with leveling up crafting. But again, I have leveled up crafters to 50 without the scrolls. I save myself some time, once again to avoid tedium. Still, no pay wall, so PfC.

The argument that really caught my attention and gave me pause was the one talking about zones locked behind ESO +. Those who can afford $15/month do have an advantage. But is this P2W?

I would argue not. I view the DLC as being distinct from the base game. What we all purchased at launch was the base game, nothing more (well, the Imperial for some). Should some fresh faced gamer start playing ESO tomorrow, that is all he or she will have as well without the sub. Equal footing.

I offer that the DLC is not P2W nor is it PfC. I postulate that they exist to make ZOS money. They need some sort of continued revenue stream from the playerbase as very few will buy the game twice. They have incentivised subscribing at a very reasonable fee, or one can purchase the DLC outright. Those who do one or the other admittedly have an advantage, but that is a byproduct of, not the intent (which is very important to me). It is hard to argue against ZOS making money - without their ability to do so we have no game to play. And the DLC is not needed to play the base game so many of us enjoyed at launch.

Look, I am no apologist for ESO. I don't believe they need one. I see nothing in the store, or upcoming, that fits my definition of Pay to Win. What I do see, and support at this moment in time, is cosmetics, Pay for Convenience, and legitimate DLC that merits a separate purchase or subscription. I find the subscription in particular very fair, one of the best values in the MMORPG economic biosphere across the board.

The only problem I have with Crown Crates is that it harms the Completionist Player, as I have mentioned in other posts, with its lure of 'unique items not available elsewhere'. That is something ZOS needs to address, and I believe they will. Yet even if they don't, said Crates are still just PfC at worst. They offer nothing (nor does anything in the store at current beyond the DLC) that cannot be acquired through an investment of time or that isn't purely cosmetic.

My personal opinion of Lucky Bags is really not relevant (I find them tacky for whatever that is worth). ZOS has a right to make money and as long as they do so without damaging the integrity of the game I'll support them as long as I am enjoying their product.

I have no doubt they are monitoring this thread and will address it through official channels in the near future. Give them time to do that.

They won't - Matt Firor called it "overreacting" and "needless fears" without to even address the gambling aspect of the boxes - there is nothing to expect from people with such low moral standards. And what is there to say anyway - when someone says a while ago about those boxes "we don't like them either" and is now selling them as if they would be the most innovative idea since sliced bread. This is in a shameless way insulting even, despite the other problems it has and which were discussed in detail in this thread already.

AnthragonVangor · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Sunver wrote: »

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE! Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

I don't think that there will be more money for the devs. Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0. But they will lose some reputation, just because other companies walked this way didn't mean to become "better".

RazielSR · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I think you should drink a tea or smt anyway and calm down a bit XD

What a powerful argument... nice to see that you've nothing else/left to say and no more lies or made-up assumptions to add.

Oh...Im sick of explaining this and that. Cmon I have read your post and you are just another random blind fan and me another random blind troll... ok.

I agree with Randolphi post and with Lysette ones,not yours. Is not that bad. You dont agree with any of my posts and Im going to the beach for the 120000000 time this summer anyway o_O

I wish I could do that too - but we have a thick layer of unpleasant clouds in about 900m height, 13 degree C and it is relatively humid, at least there is no fog anymore - winter in south africa is not really the most fun time of the year. Sigh.

hehe...Well here in the Mediterranean(Valencia-Spain) summer its all about beach and sun XD. I always got sick of it at the end anyway.

Do you know what is funny in this context - the local idiom here to leave in winter and stay in the northern hemisphere during winter is "we are going to spain" - even they most likely don't, but that is the idom for that here.

hahaha! That is funny.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0.

There are people who leave, and people who announce they'll leave. The latter never leave. So it will eventually be a plus for ESO, financially.

Tandor · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE! Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

I don't think that there will be more money for the devs. Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0. But they will lose some reputation, just because other companies walked this way didn't mean to become "better".

I don't believe that most of those who said they will leave the game will actually do so, and of those few who do most will be back again before long. There is already evidence of the harshest critics changing their minds and staying.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0.

There are people who leave, and people who announce they'll leave. The latter never leave. So it will eventually be a plus for ESO, financially.

It depends on what they'll put into these crates - like it is announced, it might just be a straw fire until people see, that there is nothing interesting to gain other than what they did not want in the first place, otherwise they would already have bought it. The difference between these boxes and boxes in other games is, that boxes in other games contain stuff, which is attractive - and to a big part it is attractive due to features, which are either hidden or obviously pay to win. I really doubt that ZOS can stay with their promise of "no p2w items in those boxes" - simply because it does not work without really attractive stuff in those boxes, which would give a value for the insane amount of crates someone has to buy to get them.

So it might just be a very short-lived success for these boxes - and then they will have to make them attractive to the masses - a lot do not care about cosmetic stuff - so the only way is to introduce stuff, which is in one way or the other p2w.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Tandor wrote: »

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE! Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

I don't think that there will be more money for the devs. Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0. But they will lose some reputation, just because other companies walked this way didn't mean to become "better".

I don't believe that most of those who said they will leave the game will actually do so, and of those few who do most will be back again before long. There is already evidence of the harshest critics changing their minds and staying.

This is true, it is just human nature - but they might not reopen their wallets or spend a whole lot less than before and are very careful with investing any more money into the game, due to lack of trust. They are furthermore more likely to get upset about changes, which look in the slightest suspicious - it is not a win for ZOS to have them back, it will never be like before.

And that they all will be back is as well not true - in 2007/2008 Linden Lab made a bait and switch attempt, which ruined the real estate market in Second Life to a point, that owners of estates which grossed at several hundred thousand of dollars had losses in the 6-digit range. This led to that about half of the daily concurrency was lost -and the business in game lost about 475 million US$ per year. It was once a big market in real US$ - and it is now shrunken to just about 350 million US$ per year. It led to just about 40% loss in population as well. Then Linden Lab started to lie to the customer base - looks all kind of familiar to me. The game is still going strong nevertheless, even it has just about half of the population left - simply because most do not care about such things - but the loss is definitely there.

Easily_Lost · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

AlienSlof wrote: »

I played Tera for a year and enjoyed it. Its vibrancy was a cheery splash in a very dark time in my life. I never - NEVER - bought any gamble boxes.

I then left Tera (too female biased) and moved onto Neverwinter, which I also enjoyed for about a year. Never bought their gamble boxes either, no matter how much I would have liked the rare thing inside. I got to see the occasional one following or being ridden, but I happily lived without.

Played ESO since beta and still enjoying it. I took 6 months out when it was still sub only and regret it for missing out on the tiger. Still, it's not the end of the world, and I get to see them in game anyway. I have a nice collection of mounts, pets and costumes to choose from, and while ever such items are offered, I will buy outright the ones I like to look at. It won't impact my enjoyment of the game.

ZOS: You can take your gamble RNG boxes and shove them up where the sun never shines.

I won't be buying any. I DON'T NEED the consumables, my master crafter and chef-cat can make better. I like to level in my own sweet time, thanks. I'm a retired older lady with time on my hands and a small amount of disposable income - which won't ever be spent on a gamble. Offer it straight up for a set price, then I might well say 'oooh shiny!' and buy it. I won't spend anything on a 'might get'.

Ever.

Just like he said: You don't have to buy it.

Tib · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

I don't think it will be any better than other games, and the interview with Matt did nothing to change my mind.

A simple question to all of you who are 99% sure that ZOS and ESO will go P2W-downhill-skyfall catastrophy :

Why don't you leave now ?

I mean, when I know I'll have to leave my partner soon, I prefer to leave him now. Anything else is just weird and painful.

So, aren't you all in fact giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt, in spite of your conviction that it can only go bad soon ?

they want to give ZOS "another chance" (TRANSLATION: there are few other games that are better ethics-wise)

if they left, nobody would be here to "protect the weak addicted gamblers" (TRANSLATION: guess which ones are the real addicts here)

they "love the game", despite complaining just about every aspect there is to complain about (TRANSLATION: disillusioned, negative and evidently self-destructive attitude, likely stemming from real life problems. I mean, who on earth would spend time on something they hate?)

Of course we love the game, otherwise why complain at all, then we would just let go and play something else. And no, I have another game to go to, which I play since 2008 and am still playing now - EVE online, which has never disappointed me so far.

The problem with ESO was already described by Angry Joe at launch - painfully average - on one side it is a great game and on the other side it is so awfully bug ridden at times - just look at what a disaster it was on Xbox and PS4 for quite a while - and especially in the last few months costumes and armor are more often than not awfully crafted - things which should never happen with an AAA game. And this discrepancy between awesomeness on one side (landscape graphics and sound effects in the open wild are awesome) and dilettantism on the other makes it to something what Angry Joe described as "painfully average" - and now with these RNG boxes the game is again loosing niveaux and this is just painful among other things.

And just because most other games are not better ethic-wise, does not make this one more acceptable - wrong is wrong.

So you basically confirm what I wrote?

That's all great, although makes me wonder what was the point of the reply.

Anyways, I'm somewhat glad (that being a relative term) to see that the storm has calmed and we at least do not talk about immortal German law officials, prison sentences and suicides anymore. And, again repeating, it will be interesting to see what happens before the Update 12 goes live, and whether this thread gets any more official responses... I never expected it to become such a discussion, but since it happened I still wonder how they will handle the Crown Crates.

Personally I would of prepared some reply, or at least a few minutes of ESO live to address this topic. That regardless whether the RNG thingies are in or out. Also, a part of me thought "why not just back from it, if it causes such an outrage." Then again, I do not work at ZOS!

Tandor · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

AnthragonVangor wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

It's all cosmetic. Why not?

I mean...if you could get lets say vMA weapons or sets from these boxes you probably would(and should) be angry.

BUT THESE ARE COSMETICS PEOPLE! Nothing that disrupts the balance in the game, seriously!

I like the idea, I know it will increase Crowns spending(more monies for the devs) and I hope to see it implemented into the game and developed further.

I don't think that there will be more money for the devs. Those who announced they would leave the game (most of them are subscribers and pay for crown store stuff) will just be replaced by loot box hunters. From the financial aspect I would say it will be +/- 0. But they will lose some reputation, just because other companies walked this way didn't mean to become "better".

I don't believe that most of those who said they will leave the game will actually do so, and of those few who do most will be back again before long. There is already evidence of the harshest critics changing their minds and staying.

This is true, it is just human nature - but they might not reopen their wallets or spend a whole lot less than before and are very careful with investing any more money into the game, due to lack of trust. They are furthermore more likely to get upset about changes, which look in the slightest suspicious - it is not a win for ZOS to have them back, it will never be like before.

And that they all will be back is as well not true - in 2007/2008 Linden Lab made a bait and switch attempt, which ruined the real estate market in Second Life to a point, that owners of estates which grossed at several hundred thousand of dollars had losses in the 6-digit range. This led to that about half of the daily concurrency was lost -and the business in game lost about 475 million US$ per year. It was once a big market in real US$ - and it is now shrunken to just about 350 million US$ per year. It led to just about 40% loss in population as well. Then Linden Lab started to lie to the customer base - looks all kind of familiar to me. The game is still going strong nevertheless, even it has just about half of the population left - simply because most do not care about such things - but the loss is definitely there.

I agree, hence my not claiming that they would be.

I also think it's highly likely that ZOS will be following player feedback on this subject very closely and that they will reflect that in their final detailed plans. That said, I think a lot of the arguments against lockboxes are over-stated and hugely emotive - which is never a good starting point for a balanced discussion.

Personally, I'd rather we didn't have them and I will never want to use them any more than I will want to use the Crown Store - not on a point of principle but because they don't offer anything I'm remotely interested in (outside of Crown Store services like account upgrades and character slots etc). However, if a significant number of players do see some merit in them and want to use them to donate revenue to the game in return for fluff that doesn't impact on anyone else then I'm ok with that, but it certainly needs to be properly managed.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

nurrtibub16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

I don't think it will be any better than other games, and the interview with Matt did nothing to change my mind.

A simple question to all of you who are 99% sure that ZOS and ESO will go P2W-downhill-skyfall catastrophy :

Why don't you leave now ?

I mean, when I know I'll have to leave my partner soon, I prefer to leave him now. Anything else is just weird and painful.

So, aren't you all in fact giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt, in spite of your conviction that it can only go bad soon ?

they want to give ZOS "another chance" (TRANSLATION: there are few other games that are better ethics-wise)

if they left, nobody would be here to "protect the weak addicted gamblers" (TRANSLATION: guess which ones are the real addicts here)

they "love the game", despite complaining just about every aspect there is to complain about (TRANSLATION: disillusioned, negative and evidently self-destructive attitude, likely stemming from real life problems. I mean, who on earth would spend time on something they hate?)

Of course we love the game, otherwise why complain at all, then we would just let go and play something else. And no, I have another game to go to, which I play since 2008 and am still playing now - EVE online, which has never disappointed me so far.

The problem with ESO was already described by Angry Joe at launch - painfully average - on one side it is a great game and on the other side it is so awfully bug ridden at times - just look at what a disaster it was on Xbox and PS4 for quite a while - and especially in the last few months costumes and armor are more often than not awfully crafted - things which should never happen with an AAA game. And this discrepancy between awesomeness on one side (landscape graphics and sound effects in the open wild are awesome) and dilettantism on the other makes it to something what Angry Joe described as "painfully average" - and now with these RNG boxes the game is again loosing niveaux and this is just painful among other things.

And just because most other games are not better ethic-wise, does not make this one more acceptable - wrong is wrong.

So you basically confirm what I wrote? That's all great, although makes me wonder what was the point of the reply.

Anyways, I'm somewhat glad (that being a relative term) to see that the storm has calmed and we at least do not talk about immortal German law officials, prison sentences and suicides anymore. And, again repeating, it will be interesting to see what happens before the Update 12 goes live, and whether this thread gets any more official responses... I never expected it to become such a discussion, but since it happened I still wonder how they will handle the Crown Crates.

Personally I would of prepared some reply, or at least a few minutes of ESO live to address this topic. That regardless whether the RNG thingies are in or out. Also, a part of me thought "why not just back from it, if it causes such an outrage." Then again, I do not work at ZOS!

Well, the purpose was to show that even if some of the things are factually correct in your post, your "translation" is not. that is an interpretation of you, which is not valid IMO. What ZOS is doing there is immoral and it is against the law in germany, I have shown why and it is as well against other laws. The point why I am not that much talking about it now is, that if I would act on it, it would to the most part hit those, who are innocent - if the EU servers in Frankfurt would have to close down, that means all the people playing on this server will be hit by it - and ZOS will just use another server in a different country afterwards. I was thinking about this effect - it is not really a good idea to invoke something what saves a minority but harms a majority instead - this is the only reason - but it is still an immoral business offer by ZOS by german laws and eventually even criminal.

Well, and to the "back off" part - ZOS might not be able to do that, if they got pressure from their peers in the Zenimax group to finally milk some money out of the game instead to fool around with people (I don't know if this is the case, but it could) - and this can lead quickly to much harsher methods of squeezing money out of people - eventually not because ZOS wants it, but Zenimax forces them to.

Mercutio · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

They won't - Matt Firor called it "overreacting" and "needless fears" without to even address the gambling aspect of the boxes - there is nothing to expect from people with such low moral standards. And what is there to say anyway - when someone says a while ago about those boxes "we don't like them either" and is now selling them as if they would be the most innovative idea since sliced bread. This is in a shameless way insulting even, despite the other problems it has and which were discussed in detail in this thread already.

Perhaps no further elaboration will come of this, you could be right. I don't think that will be the case, we'll just have to wait and see. I disagree with you about the 'low moral standards' description, that seems hyperbolic. While we don't know for sure who initiated this movement, and probably never will, if it is as I suspect not the development team but the group responsible for the bottom line - then they are just doing their jobs.

Regardless, even if the current parameters are set for now they can always be changed later, and I believe they will be.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

They won't - Matt Firor called it "overreacting" and "needless fears" without to even address the gambling aspect of the boxes - there is nothing to expect from people with such low moral standards. And what is there to say anyway - when someone says a while ago about those boxes "we don't like them either" and is now selling them as if they would be the most innovative idea since sliced bread. This is in a shameless way insulting even, despite the other problems it has and which were discussed in detail in this thread already.

Perhaps no further elaboration will come of this, you could be right. I don't think that will be the case, we'll just have to wait and see. I disagree with you about the 'low moral standards' description, that seems hyperbolic. While we don't know for sure who initiated this movement, and probably never will, if it is as I suspect not the development team but the group responsible for the bottom line - then they are just doing their jobs.

Regardless, even if the current parameters are set for now they can always be changed later, and I believe they will be.

You probably be believed wrong. Whether or not Matt believes what he's saying anymore is irrelevent. There's a suit somewhere that forced them to engage in this buisness practice, likely to make short term cash for something. The -only- way these fail is if the lockboxes themselves fail. While the Elder Scrolls is the only game where the design isn't that conducive to it I have no doubt they -will- make it conducive to it.

It wont go away. It going away means the playerbase isn't receptive to this kind of tactic, and while this game has a better chance than any it wont, my doubts remain.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

They won't - Matt Firor called it "overreacting" and "needless fears" without to even address the gambling aspect of the boxes - there is nothing to expect from people with such low moral standards. And what is there to say anyway - when someone says a while ago about those boxes "we don't like them either" and is now selling them as if they would be the most innovative idea since sliced bread. This is in a shameless way insulting even, despite the other problems it has and which were discussed in detail in this thread already.

Perhaps no further elaboration will come of this, you could be right. I don't think that will be the case, we'll just have to wait and see. I disagree with you about the 'low moral standards' description, that seems hyperbolic. While we don't know for sure who initiated this movement, and probably never will, if it is as I suspect not the development team but the group responsible for the bottom line - then they are just doing their jobs.

Regardless, even if the current parameters are set for now they can always be changed later, and I believe they will be.

Ebay has in their policies, that such RNG boxes are not allowed to be listed, because it is most likely or definitely against the law in many countries - they do not put such a policy up by no reason - even they do not really care to weed these listings from their system. But they know that it is illegal in many countries. ZOS on the other hand does not seem to be interested to avoid something, what is illegal in many countries - I call this low moral standards.

JamilaRaj · August 2016

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Mercutio wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

They won't - Matt Firor called it "overreacting" and "needless fears" without to even address the gambling aspect of the boxes - there is nothing to expect from people with such low moral standards. And what is there to say anyway - when someone says a while ago about those boxes "we don't like them either" and is now selling them as if they would be the most innovative idea since sliced bread. This is in a shameless way insulting even, despite the other problems it has and which were discussed in detail in this thread already.

Perhaps no further elaboration will come of this, you could be right. I don't think that will be the case, we'll just have to wait and see. I disagree with you about the 'low moral standards' description, that seems hyperbolic. While we don't know for sure who initiated this movement, and probably never will, if it is as I suspect not the development team but the group responsible for the bottom line - then they are just doing their jobs.

Regardless, even if the current parameters are set for now they can always be changed later, and I believe they will be.

Ebay has in their policies, that such RNG boxes are not allowed to be listed, because it is most likely or definitely against the law in many countries - they do not put such a policy up by no reason - even they do not really care to weed these listings from their system. But they know that it is illegal in many countries. ZOS on the other hand does not seem to be interested to avoid something, what is illegal in many countries - I call this low moral standards.

But what exactly would be illegal? As a business, they may be required to clearly state price. Arguably, stating price without stating what is in a scambox or at least what chance X has to be in a scambox, would render price tag meaningless and violate such requirement. But behold - ZOS, like other operators of online casinos thinly veiled as MMORPGs, does not sell scamboxes. Nope. They sell fake currency, and that they do transparently.
Gambling aspect? Well, as per EULA/TOS, players do not own in-game items. ZOS does not convert crowns/items back to cash, probably outright forbids that in said agreements. Which means players can not, playing scamboxes, win money or anything convertible to money, which, I believe, would make it hard to classify this kind of online casinos as gambling.

I am sure they are depressed by their low moral standards, but perhaps the almighty buck will help to quell their sorrow.

Slurg · August 2016

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Avenias wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

U guys are assuming loot box= pay to win, or a step towards p2w. Its not cos u get only cosmetic items

Oh well yes we were assuming a lot when the change in subscriptions model happened months ago b2p announcement too.

U guys are being very unreasonable. Its just cosmetic items. Dont tell ppl how to spend their money.

Whether this is another step in P2W or not is debatable all day long and is not going to be resolved until we see the next step. I can remain open minded about that as long as the game is still fun for me.

Bottom line for me is, while I may alternately pity or judge the hell out of people for their financial choices, I don't care deeply about how they spend their money. I care about how I spend MY money. Before this change, I could purchase the cosmetics and mounts I wanted at a fixed cost. With these boxes ZOS is telling me if I want certain cosmetic items that are exclusive to the box, I will have to gamble for a chance at them, and quite possibly end up with a lot of other things I didn't want in order to accumulate enough "crown gems" to get what I want.

If you want to gamble real money for cosmetic items, go right ahead. But I won't be. This change makes the game a little bit less fun for me.

JimT722 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

The problem with this system is the items you likely would want to buy from now on are going to end up in these boxes and not on the store leaving nothing else worthwhile to spend crowns on, and at $4 an attempt. People will buy into this and it will make tons of money. When you can make money really easy, this is what's going to be focused on at the expense of other aspects of the game. I have seen it happen before. unfortunately it's likely to happen here.

clayandaudrey_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.