What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

There's one thing that puzzles me in this whole crown crate stuff.

If someone (and there will be someone..) "wins" an exclusive item in a crown crate, he probably wear/equip it ingame for everyone to see. But everyone will know it comes from a crown crate !
Will people pretend they have only bought one crate with left over crowns - and got lucky ? (which could be true)... or admit (even proudly ?) that they have spent a fortune on crown crates to get that unique thing ?

I personally would be totally ashamed to appear in game with a crown-crate-exclusive mount, costume or pet...

I'd probably be more impressed they got anything tbh, haha xD

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

It is not even that - a post like yours is signalizing to me, that those, we thought would be worth to being protected from this scam scheme, might not be worth it after all - this is what it comes down to, maybe we should realize that people have a right to be stupid and if they get financially harmed by these schemes, maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Why do we even try to protect them - this comes to mind when I see a post like yours.

That pretty much sums it up Lysette.

A bit of personal responsibility goes a long way - I have no interest is protecting everybody on the planet from themselves. If you have no self control, it's really not my problem.

Just a reminder: I don't really care about protecting people. I mean, not especially. This is a scummy practice, and it does prey on children, but, my primary objection remains, not wanting to see it in a game I'm playing, because it sleazes up the entire place, and because of how it affects the community. Not because I think people need to be protected from themselves.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

Lonestryder

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I cancelled for the same reasons MF gave in the previously-posted quote regarding the integrity of the game and the game leadership's commitment to maintain it. I've had some great adventures in the TES games and I'd like to leave those memories intact.

It's easy to argue for them if you stand on the premise that some things are not important. Oh, let's just call them "cosmetic" and suddenly they are less important than something that affects player statistics. Sheesh, how times have changed.
But hey, that's all fine and dandy, as I've had a great time here.

As a slight counterpoint, however, nobody who posts against these silly boxes dozens and dozens of times should point fingers at people with gambling, compulsion, or other issues. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

We will never know for sure about drop rates. ZOS can modify them as they see fit.

Daggerfall_Bones

Very slippery slope of you introduce gambling with crowns. H3H3 exposed a counterstrike player and Stream exec who started something like this with weapons skins and promoted it without disclosing he had started the company. He was literally rolling the dice with for these skins with backend access for the results. They were gambling hundreds of dollars and marketed this to kids. They got burned pretty bad when they got exposed.

All in all a bad idea if I understand it correctly. If you have 7 million players and just 1/7th buys the DLC every 3 months it would seem you have a profitable company on your hands. I get having to "normalize" ESO to expand the audience with housing and battlegrounds, but this sounds like gambling for real currency.

If you have 7 million players you have a success on your hands. New MMOs would kill for those numbers. Keep doing right what you've been doing and more will come.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Which would be hit regardless of crown boxes in an on-line game.

Many of us have lost people (my own daughter suffers from depression and has attempted suicide twice), but to think you can eliminate any possibility of these people from hitting the wall is both naive and intentionally blind.

Not everyone can be saved. I sincerely don't believe that stopping crown boxes in ESO will save one single person because those people WILL find an outlet for their addiction.

While this is possibly true, those boxes could not get new people into addictive behavior, who do not show this yet, if they would not be there. So it would help some, who do not even know yet, that they will develop this problem eventually.

But that gets us into some "Minority Report" ground. It's not really our place to eliminate the POTENTIAL problem for an individual that may or may not have a POTENTIAL issue in the future.

People get addicted to soda, cigarettes, alcohol, ***, etc. we cannot eliminate every potential issue that people may eventually have.

Yes and no - just look at what european cigarette boxes look like nowadays. They show in drastic pictures what smoking can lead to - have a look at that toe and the dead flesh - that foot will be soon up for amputation.



this is kind of what you said, cannot be done - it might not have a big effect, but smoking becomes increasingly unpopular.

There is not even room on the main faces of the pack for the brand name - and in 2020 menthols will be banned.

And yet not 100% of the people have quit - you cannot save everybody. You have actually proven my point very well.

Remember, in America, we banned Alcohol for a brief time - look that up and see what happened. Banning things does nothing but create a black market for that item.

If EVERY single person in Europe quit smoking because of the boxes I would agree with you. People will ultimately choose for themselves regardless of how many people try to persuade, influence, or even ban their addiction. I know this as a dead on fact. I lost BOTH of my parents two years ago to smoking related issues - and they both knew the risks.

Lol, I do not have to look that up. If I would not know about the time of prohibition in the US and it's outcome, I would be pretty uneducated. I think that the argument, just because you cannot save everybody, you should not make an attempt, is not a valid one to make. We can as well not warn everyone about every possible risk - life is risky, if you have no more risks, you are dead.

But we can make it a very unpleasant experience - in public it is that way already - smoking in pubs, restaurants and official buildings is banned in a lot of european countries already. Gambling is very restricted in most european countries as well. In 2020 the next step against smoking comes into effect - no flavoring anymore, no add-ons, which make the smoke taste mild or less rough than it really is. It is an incremental method, but it will finally lead to more and more people not smoking. Not to talk about that the price of a pack of cigarettes is meanwhile about 6€ in europe. Then insurances increase their rates if someone is a smoker and such - in all areas this is now a thing and it will not stop until a significant effect is achieved.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

We will never know for sure about drop rates. ZOS can modify them as they see fit.

If any other games are to go by that use this system first day each box/event or cycle, you will see players in zone chat, guild chat and poss a on screen splash that x person got y item etc,.....they all do that....... its false hype, if makes others want to try, and if there has been a frenzy of crowns sales the drop rate WILL be reduced, they can do that without any patches or taking the server down, .....than after a few days if sales drop they will increase drop rates,

Also this will be done deliberately, early on saturdays as well, they know weekend has the highest peak on players online, most just been paid etc..

This is known to happen even ex employers from game publishers can confirm this is 'normal' sales tactics.

so many people are blind to commonly used marketing and sales tactics that are the norm in all aspects of daily life, they deny these things happen UNTIL it happens to them, but by then the company has already won they got your money....and thats what its all about.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

wow.... a sensible, rational comment.

Just, one that suggests the author hasn't played the game yet.

I know, we all look at stuff like the Imperials and the Julianos set as fair and balanced... until you start seeing those things getting lauded as the best option for certain builds. And then remember that, yeah, ZOS is actually getting paid.

It's not P2W in the extreme, like you get from F2P grindfests, that will just flat out sell you a weapon that does 10% more damage than anything you can otherwise obtain... but, stacking up Spell Damage is still way more obnoxious than stacking up weapon damage, and suddenly Julianos isn't exactly the same as Hundings but on the other bar, it's actually more valuable, given available resources. Anyone else remember the utter tantrums we got about Kena being available to non-subscribers via The Golden? But, wait, it's not P2W, it was just the single best DPS monster set in the game, at the time.

To say nothing of this little gem. It is easier to obtain V16 gear, even now, as a subscriber, than as a free player. Maybe that will change with U12, I don't know, and neither do you. But right now, if you want to make V16 gear as a free player, you need to go to Cyrodiil, or run vet dungeons. As a subscriber, you just need to wander around and listen for thieves caches, or you can start switching to actually useful sets by running content in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, or on The Gold Coast.

Sure, as a free player you can theoretically catch up, but the opportunity cost is far higher.

That's time that a subscriber can put towards advancing their CR, towards gathering more mats, towards grinding in the new zones.

Maybe U12 will rectify some of this.

But, saying there's no direct statistical advantages for spending money on ESO is flat out wrong.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

People can love the game AND approve of or like crown crates. It's not contradictory.
ZOS certainly calculated all this and concluded that crown crates would lead to more income altogether.

The way I would consider your argument as valid would be "loyal customers who love the game and loved to collect all crown store stuff, but don't want to buy random boxes, will be punished since they won't be able to complete their collection and that is not very fair".

You misunderstood, I wasn't saying that approving of gambling boxes and loving the game were mutually exclusive. Just because there are people who approve of gambling boxes and love the game doesn't mean there aren't people who disapprove and love the game. The net ability of players to support the game goes down regardless of whether or not gamblers exist, unless the gamblers are able to fully make up for lost potential revenue due to non-gamblers' non-participation.

Your interpretation of my argument seems to be trying to shame/ridicule collectors or otherwise get by on ad-hominem. You're either ignoring or not seeing how this directly affects non-gamblers' ability to support the game. Even for non-collectors, like myself, having items be gambling-exclusive means that our net ability to invest in the game diminishes. If something were on the store, we could buy it properly, either using Crowns from subscription or buying more if we like the item. It's not rocket science to see the missed opportunity by making it gambling-exclusive.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

We have no info about ZOS finances. We don't know if the current business model is effective or not, or effective enough.

We have little info, but not no info. They were able to finance 5 different DLC so far based only on their subscriptions, new players, and Crown Store revenue, and they have a lot more in the works. There's no need to play dumb, we can easily see that they're doing well.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

There are many features in the game that we never requested nor desired but which are great (poisons for instance).
Also : who is "WE" ??? It's incredible how people tend to say "WE" instead of "I" , thinking the whole world obviously think like them.
If in reality, concretely, the overwhelming majority were against crates and would not buy them, then there would be no crates at all because it would not be profitable.
Basically, crates are there because many people like to buy them. That's a fact, even if that doesn't include you nor me.

Are you even serious right now? People have requested poisons since before the game even launched. While some systems have been controversial, like Battle Spirit and AoE damage dropoff, they have all been heavily requested and desired by significant portions of the playerbase.

As for who this "WE" is, have you tried "the vast majority of the playerbase"? We have daily threads maligning RNG just in the base game functionality, let alone the gambling boxes, daily requests for token systems, etc. We even have positive developer response based on those requests, with Veteran Maelstrom Arena now dropping weapons 100% of the time and soon Veteran Dungeons dropping Monster Masks 100% of the time. We also have a poll, maybe you've seen it, it's the focus of this very thread, where hundreds of players have expressed their distaste for gambling boxes. We may have 7 million players, but that's an ENORMOUS sample size, even when accounting for biases. Why are you asking for who "WE" are and closing your eyes when it's being shown to your face?

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The "trick" word is yours. People are not tricked. They are totally informed that the crates may contains stuff of little interest as well as rare good stuff. They are totally aware that the drop rates are hidden and can be ninja manipulated by ZOS anytime.
If people, with all this knowledge, still buy crates, it's because THEY like it and THEYwant to, and it is their right to spend THEIR money as THEY please.
(I personally don't understand why they choose so, but there are millions of things and points of view that I don't understand in other people anyway, we're all so damn different).

No, people are not all aware of this. Just in this thread there were people suggesting we can test the drop rates on PTS, not realizing it can be manipulated later. Further, very few people actually understand probability. Some people think that buying 20 boxes at a 5% drop rate will guarantee that they get the item they want, not realizing that actually calculates to a 36% chance of failure. It's completely unintuitive, and that's by design. You know you how avoid all that? By offering items for actual sale at fixed prices. If you're not seeing the trick there, maybe you need to examine what information a typical person has both access to AND the ability to process.

Also, here you go again saying that THEY like it/want it. Where are you getting that? People might tolerate gambling boxes, but liking it and wanting it are entirely different things. I think the gaming community has made it quite clear that they don't like or want it.

You're acting like this is some kind of ideologically pure expression of anarcho-capitalism, but it's not. If a community finds something their service provider is doing distasteful, they have a right to express that and request that they change it. Then the business has the right to listen or ignore those requests, and reap all the benefits or fallout that causes.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Because it brings them money ? Whether a company should or shouldn't consider "morals" when providing goods and services that people are willing to buy is a WHOLE debate with probably no certain conclusion. We live in a world where drug dealers are considered criminals because they sell stuff that's bad for the health, but we consider McDonalds standard good business even though it is proven how dangerous for the health their food is. Go figure. In both cases, there are and always will be people who take drugs and people who eat junk food, whatever law and society say.
(I'm giving those as examples, but I don't think that crown crates are nearly as bad as junk food and cocaine).

(edited for typos and such)

Asking why ZOS is okay with some of their customers gambling on their services and getting nothing was a rhetorical question. Companies constantly make "moral" decisions about what to sell or not because they believe a positive image will help attract more customers/encourage more brand loyalty/etc. The implication is that ZOS is going to get the same image as a fast-food joint or a drug dealer if they continue down this path.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

The comunity should be able to say NO and by the out come of this threads poll most have said NO yet they put there little marketing swing on it dangle there SHINNY in front of short sited ppl.. Wont be long before more ppl leave because there not listening to the player base and choosing money instead!! ..

According to you, who is "the community" ? Who is "the player base" ?
You do realize that people who will buy those boxes are just as part of the community / playerbase as you, me and everyone who will NOT buy those boxes. What part of the "community" should ZOS listen to ?
Who are you to tell what's good and not good ? People do what they want with their money, don't they ? That's why it's called THEIR money.
You choose to not buy the crates - fine, that's my choice too. But that doesn't make people who will by them "short sighted" or idiotic.

ppl can do what ever the f.ck they like not my problem doesnt alter the fact if they allow this bullsh.t to continue by spending there money on these boxes then it gives ZOS the green light to think of more and more inventive ways to screw ppl out of there money .. BUT sure waste your money on this THEN watch the next lot of idiots just throw money at the next something SHINNY!!
All the while ZOS rub there hands together laughing there arse off till ppl wake up!!

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

sorry but are they really going to tell you what the drop rate is??? really thats like asking what the winning numbers are in lotto they want to sell boxes not sell just enough so you get the stuff you want then stop!!!

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Yes, I thought about this as well - but you see what people post about this who are in favor of those boxes - they even feel insulted, when one just tells the truth about why those boxes are there in the first place. To me they are an immoral offer, and against the law in my home country - taking advantage of weaknesses of people to achieve an significantly increased price for an item - it is exactly that what those boxes are for. It is a law against immoral business offers, so most of my fellow citizens in Germany will feel exactly the same. It might not be in other countries - China is an example, there you can legally abuse the weakness of people, there is no protective law against that.

Well, it is difficult - one day there might be a consent between nations, what is immoral business practice and what is not, but currently it is a real mess. That an Elder Scrolls title has to do that is troublesome at least - and this shows as well in Fallout Shelter and might not stop there - it might not even come from ZOS, but from their peers, Zenimax themselves.

considering the part i put in bold can you

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

wow.... a sensible, rational comment.

Just, one that suggests the author hasn't played the game yet.

I know, we all look at stuff like the Imperials and the Julianos set as fair and balanced... until you start seeing those things getting lauded as the best option for certain builds. And then remember that, yeah, ZOS is actually getting paid.

It's not P2W in the extreme, like you get from F2P grindfests, that will just flat out sell you a weapon that does 10% more damage than anything you can otherwise obtain... but, stacking up Spell Damage is still way more obnoxious than stacking up weapon damage, and suddenly Julianos isn't exactly the same as Hundings but on the other bar, it's actually more valuable, given available resources. Anyone else remember the utter tantrums we got about Kena being available to non-subscribers via The Golden? But, wait, it's not P2W, it was just the single best DPS monster set in the game, at the time.

To say nothing of this little gem. It is easier to obtain V16 gear, even now, as a subscriber, than as a free player. Maybe that will change with U12, I don't know, and neither do you. But right now, if you want to make V16 gear as a free player, you need to go to Cyrodiil, or run vet dungeons. As a subscriber, you just need to wander around and listen for thieves caches, or you can start switching to actually useful sets by running content in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, or on The Gold Coast.

Sure, as a free player you can theoretically catch up, but the opportunity cost is far higher.

That's time that a subscriber can put towards advancing their CR, towards gathering more mats, towards grinding in the new zones.

Maybe U12 will rectify some of this.

But, saying there's no direct statistical advantages for spending money on ESO is flat out wrong.

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

snakester320 wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

sorry but are they really going to tell you what the drop rate is??? really thats like asking what the winning numbers are in lotto they want to sell boxes not sell just enough so you get the stuff you want then stop!!!

To be fair, knowing the drop rates does not tell you how many boxes you need to buy in order to get what you want. That is because, mathematically, there is no number of boxes you can possibly buy that will guarantee getting something. You can get more likely to obtain something good, but you can never actually be sure, and the more people buying the more likely someone is to walk away empty-handed.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

snakester320 wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You and me both Cazzy, but we don't really even know what the drop rate potential is for the rare stuff. We have really 78 pages of nothing but speculation, opinions, and a WHOLE LOT of fear mongering.

Very true! Hoping we find out drop rates before it releases

sorry but are they really going to tell you what the drop rate is??? really thats like asking what the winning numbers are in lotto they want to sell boxes not sell just enough so you get the stuff you want then stop!!!

Not really. And, I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall it's actually a legal requirement to post the odds on raffles and contests in some states.

MarkusLiberty

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Yes please. I really dont need yours or anyone else's "protection" in regards to my spendings. And I doubt most people here do. If it means that much to you perhaps you should join an anti-gambling organizations?

Sorry if I'm sounding hostile, but this is getting just a bit ridiculous.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

Dromede

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Bouldercleave wrote: »

The real problem Lysette, is that you simply cannot save everybody. Do you REALLY think that if the TINY player base here that may have a gambling or addictive personality can be saved from the dreaded gambling boxes, that they just won't find somewhere else to destroy themselves.

A person with a serious problem is going to find a way to feed that addiction. The boxes (or lack there of) will not change that one bit.

I actually agree with you - I will not be partaking in the boxes myself. I just don't agree that they are the end of the world - or this game.

I understand what you are saying, and i mostly agree, but there also should be some movers and shakers who give a damn about others. Let her be one!

@Lysette , people like you are society's sense of integrity, even though they make us feel uncomfortable and even annoyed because most are not as sensitive and careing. I know i'm not (retail profession ruined my personality and took sense of shame away, after all if people think that $199 item costs $100 and not $200, let them think that), and you and couple more people in this thread managed to change my opinion from 'not interested, don't care, why not if others are willing to spend their money on a silly gamble' to 'no, don't think it's a healthy thing to do for a community and game in long term'.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

no, i meant the game...

Draqone

What bothers me the most is the fact it's immersion breaking. Tamriel used to be an online world and with the addition of cash shop and gambling it's being polluted with real life influences.

It's the same with the Festivals they announced. Having some halloween-like festivals brings us a step closer to having guys in santa hats running around Mournhold.....

Graydon

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Draqone wrote: »

What bothers me the most is the fact it's immersion breaking. Tamriel used to be an online world and with the addition of cash shop and gambling it's being polluted with real life influences.

It's the same with the Festivals they announced. Having some halloween-like festivals brings us a step closer to having guys in santa hats running around Mournhold.....

I sure hope so!

It's the most wonderful time of the year!

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

no, i meant the game...

Then go roll up an Imperial.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Yes please. I really dont need yours or anyone else's "protection" in regards to my spendings. And I doubt most people here do. If it means that much to you perhaps you should join an anti-gambling organizations?

Sorry if I'm sounding hostile, but this is getting just a bit ridiculous.

If that doesn't do it for you, you can always go back and find my comments on what lucky bags do to the development pipeline, and why this is a terrible ideas for reasons that have nothing to do with thinking of the children.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Yes, I thought about this as well - but you see what people post about this who are in favor of those boxes - they even feel insulted, when one just tells the truth about why those boxes are there in the first place. To me they are an immoral offer, and against the law in my home country - taking advantage of weaknesses of people to achieve an significantly increased price for an item - it is exactly that what those boxes are for. It is a law against immoral business offers, so most of my fellow citizens in Germany will feel exactly the same. It might not be in other countries - China is an example, there you can legally abuse the weakness of people, there is no protective law against that.

Well, it is difficult - one day there might be a consent between nations, what is immoral business practice and what is not, but currently it is a real mess. That an Elder Scrolls title has to do that is troublesome at least - and this shows as well in Fallout Shelter and might not stop there - it might not even come from ZOS, but from their peers, Zenimax themselves.

considering the part i put in bold can you

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

wow.... a sensible, rational comment.

Just, one that suggests the author hasn't played the game yet.

I know, we all look at stuff like the Imperials and the Julianos set as fair and balanced... until you start seeing those things getting lauded as the best option for certain builds. And then remember that, yeah, ZOS is actually getting paid.

It's not P2W in the extreme, like you get from F2P grindfests, that will just flat out sell you a weapon that does 10% more damage than anything you can otherwise obtain... but, stacking up Spell Damage is still way more obnoxious than stacking up weapon damage, and suddenly Julianos isn't exactly the same as Hundings but on the other bar, it's actually more valuable, given available resources. Anyone else remember the utter tantrums we got about Kena being available to non-subscribers via The Golden? But, wait, it's not P2W, it was just the single best DPS monster set in the game, at the time.

To say nothing of this little gem. It is easier to obtain V16 gear, even now, as a subscriber, than as a free player. Maybe that will change with U12, I don't know, and neither do you. But right now, if you want to make V16 gear as a free player, you need to go to Cyrodiil, or run vet dungeons. As a subscriber, you just need to wander around and listen for thieves caches, or you can start switching to actually useful sets by running content in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, or on The Gold Coast.

Sure, as a free player you can theoretically catch up, but the opportunity cost is far higher.

That's time that a subscriber can put towards advancing their CR, towards gathering more mats, towards grinding in the new zones.

Maybe U12 will rectify some of this.

But, saying there's no direct statistical advantages for spending money on ESO is flat out wrong.

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

can i what? - do you want to know the law - §138 section 2 BGB.

Nichtig ist insbesondere ein Rechtsgeschäft, durch das jemand unter Ausbeutung der Zwangslage, der Unerfahrenheit, des Mangels an Urteilsvermögen oder der erheblichen Willensschwäche eines anderen sich oder einem Dritten für eine Leistung Vermögensvorteile versprechen oder gewähren lässt, die in einem auffälligen Missverhältnis zu der Leistung stehen.

"der erheblichen Willensschwäche" is referring to what impulse control disorder is like or any addiction basically. "auffälligen Missverhältnis zur der Leistung stehen" means, there is a significant discrepancy between the value offered and what the customer will have paid for it. Furthermore "Mangel an Urteilsvermögen'" can refer to when someone is incapable of grasping what the business deal offers exactly. "Unerfahrenheit" is being inexperienced in the matter. So more than just one of these things are actually given.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

no, i meant the game...

Then go roll up an Imperial.

pre-ordered the ce and got eso+

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

no, i meant the game...

Then go roll up an Imperial.

pre-ordered the ce and got eso+

And there ya go.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Yes, I thought about this as well - but you see what people post about this who are in favor of those boxes - they even feel insulted, when one just tells the truth about why those boxes are there in the first place. To me they are an immoral offer, and against the law in my home country - taking advantage of weaknesses of people to achieve an significantly increased price for an item - it is exactly that what those boxes are for. It is a law against immoral business offers, so most of my fellow citizens in Germany will feel exactly the same. It might not be in other countries - China is an example, there you can legally abuse the weakness of people, there is no protective law against that.

Well, it is difficult - one day there might be a consent between nations, what is immoral business practice and what is not, but currently it is a real mess. That an Elder Scrolls title has to do that is troublesome at least - and this shows as well in Fallout Shelter and might not stop there - it might not even come from ZOS, but from their peers, Zenimax themselves.

considering the part i put in bold can you

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

wow.... a sensible, rational comment.

Just, one that suggests the author hasn't played the game yet.

I know, we all look at stuff like the Imperials and the Julianos set as fair and balanced... until you start seeing those things getting lauded as the best option for certain builds. And then remember that, yeah, ZOS is actually getting paid.

It's not P2W in the extreme, like you get from F2P grindfests, that will just flat out sell you a weapon that does 10% more damage than anything you can otherwise obtain... but, stacking up Spell Damage is still way more obnoxious than stacking up weapon damage, and suddenly Julianos isn't exactly the same as Hundings but on the other bar, it's actually more valuable, given available resources. Anyone else remember the utter tantrums we got about Kena being available to non-subscribers via The Golden? But, wait, it's not P2W, it was just the single best DPS monster set in the game, at the time.

To say nothing of this little gem. It is easier to obtain V16 gear, even now, as a subscriber, than as a free player. Maybe that will change with U12, I don't know, and neither do you. But right now, if you want to make V16 gear as a free player, you need to go to Cyrodiil, or run vet dungeons. As a subscriber, you just need to wander around and listen for thieves caches, or you can start switching to actually useful sets by running content in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, or on The Gold Coast.

Sure, as a free player you can theoretically catch up, but the opportunity cost is far higher.

That's time that a subscriber can put towards advancing their CR, towards gathering more mats, towards grinding in the new zones.

Maybe U12 will rectify some of this.

But, saying there's no direct statistical advantages for spending money on ESO is flat out wrong.

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

can i what? - do you want to know the law - §138 section 2 BGB.

Nichtig ist insbesondere ein Rechtsgeschäft, durch das jemand unter Ausbeutung der Zwangslage, der Unerfahrenheit, des Mangels an Urteilsvermögen oder der erheblichen Willensschwäche eines anderen sich oder einem Dritten für eine Leistung Vermögensvorteile versprechen oder gewähren lässt, die in einem auffälligen Missverhältnis zu der Leistung stehen.

"der erheblichen Willensschwäche" is referring to what impulse control disorder is like or any addiction basically. "auffälligen Missverhältnis zur der Leistung stehen" means, there is a significant discrepancy between the value offered and what the customer will have paid for it. Furthermore "Mangel an Urteilsvermögen'" can refer to when someone is incapable of grasping what the business deal offers exactly. "Unerfahrenheit" is being inexperienced in the matter. So more than just one of these things are actually given.

sorry?

what does this have to do with the conversation you commented on.....the discussion there was about p2w

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I wonder if some of you guys realise how patronising you come across when talking about how important it is that you protect other players from themselves.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you forgot to add that you have to buy the box in the first place so that makes it p2w right?

Only if you're thinking of winning a bauble as "winning." In that case, sure, why not?

Do I trust them not to change their mind (again) and add a thieves' guild cache or some equipment coffer to the box table down the line? No, I do not.

no, i meant the game...

Then go roll up an Imperial.

pre-ordered the ce and got eso+

And there ya go.

yup.... first heard about the game, looked to see what was on offer and bought the ce. why? any race any class any alliance. i get to go any/everywhere and experience the whole thing.

that's the win.