What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

iRogue32 · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html

Interview with Matt Frior about the Crown Crates.

Khaos_Bane · August 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

Reposting as this is worth a read.

More info about the Crown Crates from an interview with Matt Firor:

During Gamescom last week, it was announced that Crown Crates would be coming to Elder Scrolls Online with the One Tamriel update. The announcement sparked a lot of discussion so we went straight to the source to ask Matt Firor for more details.

MMORPG: You just announced your Crown Crate system at Gamescom. What can you tell us about them?

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.
If you do receive a special premium item in a Crate that you have already purchased from the Crown Store, instead of a duplicate, you will be given Crown Gems. These Crown Gems can then be spent on a (new) section of the Crown Store to purchase another item.
So, in a nutshell: you purchase a crate of consumables, and you get the chance for cool gear that was once on the store but was discontinued – and a really rare chance of unique customization and convenience items.

MMORPG: Why now add these to ESO, several years on?

MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.

MMORPG: Are players guaranteed to get something worthwhile from boxes?

MF: Players are guaranteed to get consumables like health potions, experience point boosting scrolls, etc. You will always get something that you can use from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: What happens when there is an exclusive collectible in the crate that I want, but I never get it?

MF: There is a very good chance – especially if you are a regular collector of Crown Store items – that you will receive a collectible from a Crown Crate that you already have. When that happens, instead of a duplicate item, you will receive a new form of currency, the Crown Gem. You can then spend Crown Gems in a new section of the Crown Store where you can purchase the item that you want – including Crown Crate-exclusive items. The gem store will contain all of the collectibles available in all the Crown Crates, so you will be able to acquire the collectible you want, even if you don’t get it directly from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: Will items taken from boxes be sell-able on the in-game traders?

MF: No, you will not – Crown Crate items are the same items you purchase in the Crown Store, so they cannot be sold or traded.

MMORPG: What is your reaction to the very spirited discussions surrounding the announcement?

MF: At this point in the life cycle of ESO, we are very much accustomed to lots of discussion around our major announcements. Looking back on features like Veteran Ranks, Justice System, experience point scrolls, the Crown Store when it was first announced, our DLC strategy, etc. – all of these generated intense debate and discussion, which we welcome.

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?

MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

MMORPG: The Black Desert Online community has reacted loudly to items being sell-able on the market feeling that it makes the game pay to win. How do you plan to address similar concerns about ESO's boxes? Will the items within remain mostly cosmetic as much of ESO's crown store?

MF: Again, the items in Crown Crates are the same – with a few cosmetic-only exceptions – as the ones you can already purchase in the Crown Store, so this concern is not valid for ESO. We aren’t changing the philosophy of the Crown Store here, we are simply adding a new method for purchase that gives you the chance of receiving really cool customization and convenience items. And we will still continue to offer cool things in the Crown Store, including limited-time offer items.

Wow, Matt was very patient with the repetitious questions. Good for him.

snakester320 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel?

Yes. My hope is that the developers understand this better. We will see next week.

Recremen wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

I know that some people disagree with what I consider to be the target market, but I have to say that the people who are likely to unsubscribe over this are unlikely to be part of the Crown Crate target market. Yes, I am sure that ZOS wants those people to stick around and pay for ESO Plus. I am equally sure that they are expecting some fallout of this nature and expect that the revenue from the Crown Crates will compensate, and more, for losses among those who 'leave' in protest. "It's just business"

if i unsub it will be for the bugs that they dont fix thankfully they pulled there finger out of there arse and fixed alot of them before shadows.. i think ZOS underestimate there revenue already .. how will they sustain a revenue when eventually the idoit ppl buying theses boxs and spending far to much wake up and realize they will be spending more than they cost for a single mount or costume on boxes!!! There is no other reason for them to indroduce this idea other than raise the cost of mounts and costumes while not being seen to be raising the price of costumes and mounts!! WHY cant they just put the rare/old mounts back in the crown store.. Is it that much more expensive for them to put anther box in the crowns store or is there not enough room in the crown store plenty of boxes in the dye stamp menu from what ive seen!!

JimT722 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Vikaernes wrote: »

So if what I am reading is correct, the super rare, lockbox only items are going to be cycled in and out of those things in "seasons" right? While I think this is awful, and should not exist in the first place... if they must do it, then maybe a smart way to go about trying to alleviate concerns would be to offer those exclusive lockbox only items for sale on the crown store directly, once that "season" has ended? At least this way, if someone wanted a chance at those specific items but did not feel comfortable rolling the dice with a gambling box, all they would have to do is wait a little while.

That defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do. Check out how SWTOR'S Cartel Market works. This will be the same.

And for you people thinking about the gem store, SWTOR'S cartel certificates were dang near impossible to get to buy the stuff from the vendor.

Ironically, this the mmo I played before eso. The companies obsession over these things drove me out. I don't think I will quit over these in eso, but if this is the way MMO's are going eso will be my last one.

snakester320 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Vikaernes wrote: »

So if what I am reading is correct, the super rare, lockbox only items are going to be cycled in and out of those things in "seasons" right? While I think this is awful, and should not exist in the first place... if they must do it, then maybe a smart way to go about trying to alleviate concerns would be to offer those exclusive lockbox only items for sale on the crown store directly, once that "season" has ended? At least this way, if someone wanted a chance at those specific items but did not feel comfortable rolling the dice with a gambling box, all they would have to do is wait a little while.

That defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do. Check out how SWTOR'S Cartel Market works. This will be the same.

And for you people thinking about the gem store, SWTOR'S cartel certificates were dang near impossible to get to buy the stuff from the vendor.

Ironically, this the mmo I played before eso. The companies obsession over these things drove me out. I don't think I will quit over these in eso, but if this is the way MMO's are going eso will be my last one.

It quite possibly will drive you away from eso too.. My fear is where will it end allow them this next it will be every costume every scroll every mount every cosmetic change in the crown store thrown in to a little box to gamble on!! because why not theres more money in selling some idiot a DUD box for 400 crowns than to actually sell them the item that they want!! The comunity should be able to say NO and by the out come of this threads poll most have said NO yet they put there little marketing swing on it dangle there SHINNY in front of short sited ppl.. Wont be long before more ppl leave because there not listening to the player base and choosing money instead!! ..

SanSan · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

clayandaudrey_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

It won't be coming out. It'll be in the season box then later down the line on the gem store which you will have to buy even more boxes to get enough gems to buy it.

snakester320 · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

ill look out for your thread crying that you spent 10000 crowns and got f.ck all!!

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

It is not even that - a post like yours is signalizing to me, that those, we thought would be worth to being protected from this scam scheme, might not be worth it after all - this is what it comes down to, maybe we should realize that people have a right to be stupid and if they get financially harmed by these schemes, maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Why do we even try to protect them - this comes to mind when I see a post like yours.

Esquire1980g_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

"MF) The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way.

And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."

Now, this is really sad.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

It is not even that - a post like yours is signalizing to me, that those, we thought would be worth to being protected from this scam scheme, might not be worth it after all - this is what it comes down to, maybe we should realize that people have a right to be stupid and if they get financially harmed by these schemes, maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Why do we even try to protect them - this comes to mind when I see a post like yours.

That pretty much sums it up Lysette.

A bit of personal responsibility goes a long way - I have no interest is protecting everybody on the planet from themselves. If you have no self control, it's really not my problem.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

"MF) The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way.

And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."

Now, this is really sad.

Typical company lingo - bending it just the way they need it - and later do exactly what they claimed they would never want to do.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

snakester320 wrote: »

The comunity should be able to say NO and by the out come of this threads poll most have said NO yet they put there little marketing swing on it dangle there SHINNY in front of short sited ppl.. Wont be long before more ppl leave because there not listening to the player base and choosing money instead!! ..

According to you, who is "the community" ? Who is "the player base" ?
You do realize that people who will buy those boxes are just as part of the community / playerbase as you, me and everyone who will NOT buy those boxes. What part of the "community" should ZOS listen to ?
Who are you to tell what's good and not good ? People do what they want with their money, don't they ? That's why it's called THEIR money.
You choose to not buy the crates - fine, that's my choice too. But that doesn't make people who will by them "short sighted" or idiotic.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

It is not even that - a post like yours is signalizing to me, that those, we thought would be worth to being protected from this scam scheme, might not be worth it after all - this is what it comes down to, maybe we should realize that people have a right to be stupid and if they get financially harmed by these schemes, maybe it is just their right to get screwed over by a company - maybe we should just let them do it.

Why do we even try to protect them - this comes to mind when I see a post like yours.

That pretty much sums it up Lysette.

A bit of personal responsibility goes a long way - I have no interest is protecting everybody on the planet from themselves. If you have no self control, it's really not my problem.

Well, I start to see where you are coming from - and I have to think about it - these crates will not harm me in any way, because I will not touch them, regardless what will be in them. And then I think about what my partner said to this, that people with a problem will have to hit rock bottom first, before they will ask for help and can be helped - so is trying to protect them before they hit rock bottom really helping them?- Or is it delaying a solution and in fact harming them by keeping them from hitting rock bottom?

I am really confused about this.

Recremen · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

@SanSan
Wow, patronizing much? Maybe if you actually read some of the discourse you'd see that there are a lot of valid concerns about this model.

By offering exclusive items in the gambling boxes, players who love the game are less able to support it, since that's one more thing they should be able to buy on the Crown Store but now can't.
By offering any kind of gambling system, they are by default enabling people with problem gambling habits. Keep in mind that there was no reason to add a gambling system, this is completely accessory to their already-effective revenue model.
This gambling service was never requested or desired by players. We do not want to be offered a gambling service in the context of ESO. We do not find it fun. Even the people who are OK with the crates existing have overwhelmingly expressed that they will not buy any and do not want to participate in a gambling system.
The entire pro-gambling box argument has been focused on how much less coercive it is than other games, and how much less harm it causes. I have yet to see somebody explain why this is a beneficial service that players would actually want. There's this mysterious "other" who are supposed to be taking the hit and buying the gambling boxes, but let's examine that for a second. Who are these people? Do they actually exist? I sure haven't heard from anyone saying they're going in on it. And further, why should we be complicit with their risk-taking? Why are we OK with some people being tricked out of money?
For the vast majority of players, Crown Store consumables seem to be viewed as complete garbage. They are either worse than in-game consumables, or remarkably expensive compared to their in-game value. As such, the unique cosmetic items that will show up in the gambling boxes are the only reason that typical players would even consider buying them. Knowing that, it becomes nothing but a moderate exercise in mathematics to figure out how many people will get nothing they consider valuable from the gambling boxes. Why is ZOS fine with knowing that a certain number of customers are guaranteed to get nothing of value after buying the gambling boxes?

I won't go into the potential for b2w since I don't currently believe that's the direction they're taking, but the above alone are valid enough reasons to be upset.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

The real problem Lysette, is that you simply cannot save everybody. Do you REALLY think that if the TINY player base here that may have a gambling or addictive personality can be saved from the dreaded gambling boxes, that they just won't find somewhere else to destroy themselves.

A person with a serious problem is going to find a way to feed that addiction. The boxes (or lack there of) will not change that one bit.

I actually agree with you - I will not be partaking in the boxes myself. I just don't agree that they are the end of the world - or this game.

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

as far as the people who are against crown boxes are concerned anyone who considers buying them is either blind, stupid, a sheep or suffering from a behavioural disorder. i can't be bothered to go right back through the thread to trawl out all the other insults.... but i am sure you get the idea.

Cazzy · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Kendaric · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

1) It's 400 crowns for a bunch of consumables that few people buy or need, as it's easy to obtain better ones in-game.

2) A chance for a "rare" item that you may not want but are stuck with unless you already have said item in your collection already. If I'd wanted that item, I'd have bought it directly in most cases. As I did not, I obviously wasn't interested in the item in the first place and that won't change.

3) A lot of us have seen the direction other games took with those boxes and there's no indication it will be different here.

So, no, it's not as simple as complaining for the sake of it or because it's new. Matt's interview has done nothing but to confirm our fears about the direction ESO is taking.

SanSan · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Recremen wrote: »

SanSan wrote: »

I've learned something here while being on forums. Majority of the people WILL complain about something new being added.
After a week or two they will realized how stupid they are being and calm down.
Same with these boxes.
They're not forcing you to buy it, you're not losing anything from the boxes and ,this is one really important, THEY'RE NOT FORCING YOU TO BUY IT!
400 crowns for a bunch of items and a chance to get rare stuff, how can you hate that?
If you want to buy something rare with crowns then freaking wait for it to come out.
/end rant.
edit:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/11112/Elder-Scrolls-Online-All-About-the-Crown-Crates-Coming-in-One-Tamriel.html?hootPostID=6343a36facbedc58b3d15c5e0170ca12

more info there

@SanSan
Wow, patronizing much? Maybe if you actually read some of the discourse you'd see that there are a lot of valid concerns about this model.
By offering exclusive items in the gambling boxes, players who love the game are less able to support it, since that's one more thing they should be able to buy on the Crown Store but now can't.

By offering any kind of gambling system, they are by default enabling people with problem gambling habits. Keep in mind that there was no reason to add a gambling system, this is completely accessory to their already-effective revenue model.

This gambling service was never requested or desired by players. We do not want to be offered a gambling service in the context of ESO. We do not find it fun. Even the people who are OK with the crates existing have overwhelmingly expressed that they will not buy any and do not want to participate in a gambling system.

The entire pro-gambling box argument has been focused on how much less coercive it is than other games, and how much less harm it causes. I have yet to see somebody explain why this is a beneficial service that players would actually want. There's this mysterious "other" who are supposed to be taking the hit and buying the gambling boxes, but let's examine that for a second. Who are these people? Do they actually exist? I sure haven't heard from anyone saying they're going in on it. And further, why should we be complicit with their risk-taking? Why are we OK with some people being tricked out of money?

For the vast majority of players, Crown Store consumables seem to be viewed as complete garbage. They are either worse than in-game consumables, or remarkably expensive compared to their in-game value. As such, the unique cosmetic items that will show up in the gambling boxes are the only reason that typical players would even consider buying them. Knowing that, it becomes nothing but a moderate exercise in mathematics to figure out how many people will get nothing they consider valuable from the gambling boxes. Why is ZOS fine with knowing that a certain number of customers are guaranteed to get nothing of value after buying the gambling boxes?

I won't go into the potential for b2w since I don't currently believe that's the direction they're taking, but the above alone are valid enough reasons to be upset.

Thanks for setting me straight.

reiverx · August 2016

When I see someone with a super rare lockbox only mount, I won't be thinking wow, what a lucky person. I'll be thinking wow, how much did that sucker pay for it.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Which would be hit regardless of crown boxes in an on-line game.

Many of us have lost people (my own daughter suffers from depression and has attempted suicide twice), but to think you can eliminate any possibility of these people from hitting the wall is both naive and intentionally blind.

Not everyone can be saved. I sincerely don't believe that stopping crown boxes in ESO will save one single person because those people WILL find an outlet for their addiction.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Yes, I thought about this as well - but you see what people post about this who are in favor of those boxes - they even feel insulted, when one just tells the truth about why those boxes are there in the first place. To me they are an immoral offer, and against the law in my home country - taking advantage of weaknesses of people to achieve an significantly increased price for an item - it is exactly that what those boxes are for. It is a law against immoral business offers, so most of my fellow citizens in Germany will feel exactly the same. It might not be in other countries - China is an example, there you can legally abuse the weakness of people, there is no protective law against that.

Well, it is difficult - one day there might be a consent between nations, what is immoral business practice and what is not, but currently it is a real mess. That an Elder Scrolls title has to do that is troublesome at least - and this shows as well in Fallout Shelter and might not stop there - it might not even come from ZOS, but from their peers, Zenimax themselves.

raffael.geislerb16_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

These boxes will lead to disappointment because you most probably will get something different out of them than you desired. Who is going to buy them for the consumables anyway?

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Which would be hit regardless of crown boxes in an on-line game.

Many of us have lost people (my own daughter suffers from depression and has attempted suicide twice), but to think you can eliminate any possibility of these people from hitting the wall is both naive and intentionally blind.

Not everyone can be saved. I sincerely don't believe that stopping crown boxes in ESO will save one single person because those people WILL find an outlet for their addiction.

While this is possibly true, those boxes could not get new people into addictive behavior, who do not show this yet, if they would not be there. So it would help some, who do not even know yet, that they will develop this problem eventually.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

By offering exclusive items in the gambling boxes, players who love the game are less able to support it, since that's one more thing they should be able to buy on the Crown Store but now can't.

People can love the game AND approve of or like crown crates. It's not contradictory.
ZOS certainly calculated all this and concluded that crown crates would lead to more income altogether.

The way I would consider your argument as valid would be "loyal customers who love the game and loved to collect all crown store stuff, but don't want to buy random boxes, will be punished since they won't be able to complete their collection and that is not very fair".

Recremen wrote: »

By offering any kind of gambling system, they are by default enabling people with problem gambling habits. Keep in mind that there was no reason to add a gambling system, this is completely accessory to their already-effective revenue model.

We have no info about ZOS finances. We don't know if the current business model is effective or not, or effective enough.

Recremen wrote: »

This gambling service was never requested or desired by players. We do not want to be offered a gambling service in the context of ESO. We do not find it fun. Even the people who are OK with the crates existing have overwhelmingly expressed that they will not buy any and do not want to participate in a gambling system.

There are many features in the game that we never requested nor desired but which are great (poisons for instance).
Also : who is "WE" ??? It's incredible how people tend to say "WE" instead of "I" , thinking the whole world obviously think like them.
If in reality, concretely, the overwhelming majority were against crates and would not buy them, then there would be no crates at all because it would not be profitable.
Basically, crates are there because many people like to buy them. That's a fact, even if that doesn't include you nor me.

Recremen wrote: »

Why are we OK with some people being tricked out of money?

The "trick" word is yours. People are not tricked. They are totally informed that the crates may contains stuff of little interest as well as rare good stuff. They are totally aware that the drop rates are hidden and can be ninja manipulated by ZOS anytime.
If people, with all this knowledge, still buy crates, it's because THEY like it and THEYwant to, and it is their right to spend THEIR money as THEY please.
(I personally don't understand why they choose so, but there are millions of things and points of view that I don't understand in other people anyway, we're all so damn different).

Recremen wrote: »

Why is ZOS fine with knowing that a certain number of customers are guaranteed to get nothing of value after buying the gambling boxes?

Because it brings them money ? Whether a company should or shouldn't consider "morals" when providing goods and services that people are willing to buy is a WHOLE debate with probably no certain conclusion. We live in a world where drug dealers are considered criminals because they sell stuff that's bad for the health, but we consider McDonalds standard good business even though it is proven how dangerous for the health their food is. Go figure. In both cases, there are and always will be people who take drugs and people who eat junk food, whatever law and society say.
(I'm giving those as examples, but I don't think that crown crates are nearly as bad as junk food and cocaine).

(edited for typos and such)

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

raffael.geislerb16_ESO wrote: »

These boxes will lead to disappointment because you most probably will get something different out of them than you desired. Who is going to buy them for the consumables anyway?

The gambling type is not even worried about this - they get their reward response in their brain in both events, win and loss - the act of gambling and the excitement about trying their luck and all kind of superstition which goes with this is what attracts them. They will buy those boxes regardless of that those have crappy results - until they get what they want and then they have an even stronger reward response in their brain and keep doing it - that is what makes gambling so dangerous.

Bouldercleave · August 2016

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hitting rock bottom is usually suicide in a lot of addictions and mental health issues.

Which would be hit regardless of crown boxes in an on-line game.

Many of us have lost people (my own daughter suffers from depression and has attempted suicide twice), but to think you can eliminate any possibility of these people from hitting the wall is both naive and intentionally blind.

Not everyone can be saved. I sincerely don't believe that stopping crown boxes in ESO will save one single person because those people WILL find an outlet for their addiction.

While this is possibly true, those boxes could not get new people into addictive behavior, who do not show this yet, if they would not be there. So it would help some, who do not even know yet, that they will develop this problem eventually.

But that gets us into some "Minority Report" ground. It's not really our place to eliminate the POTENTIAL problem for an individual that may or may not have a POTENTIAL issue in the future.

People get addicted to soda, cigarettes, alcohol, ***, etc. we cannot eliminate every potential issue that people may eventually have.

Lysette · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

By offering exclusive items in the gambling boxes, players who love the game are less able to support it, since that's one more thing they should be able to buy on the Crown Store but now can't.

People can love the game AND approve of or like crown crates. It's not contradictory.
ZOS certainly calculated all this and concluded that crown crates would lead to more income altogether.

The way I would consider your argument as valid would be "loyal customers who love the game and loved to collect all crown store stuff, but don't want to buy random boxes, will be punished since they won't be able to complete their collection and that is not very fair".

Recremen wrote: »

By offering any kind of gambling system, they are by default enabling people with problem gambling habits. Keep in mind that there was no reason to add a gambling system, this is completely accessory to their already-effective revenue model.

We have no info about ZOS finances. We don't know if the current business model is effective or not, or effective enough.

Recremen wrote: »

This gambling service was never requested or desired by players. We do not want to be offered a gambling service in the context of ESO. We do not find it fun. Even the people who are OK with the crates existing have overwhelmingly expressed that they will not buy any and do not want to participate in a gambling system.

There are many features in the game that we never requested nor desired but which are great (poisons for instance).
Also : who is "WE" ??? It's incredible how people tend to say "WE" instead of "I" , thinking the whole world obviously think like them.
If in reality, concretely, the overwhelming majority were against crates and would not buy them, then there would be no crates at all because it would not be profitable.
Basically, crates are there because many people like to buy them. That's a fact, even if that doesn't include you nor me.

Recremen wrote: »

Why are we OK with some people being tricked out of money?

The "trick" word is yours. People are not tricked. They are totally informed that the crates may contains stuff of little interest as well as rare good stuff. They are totally aware that the drop rates are hidden and can be ninja manipulated by ZOS anytime.
If people, with all this knowledge, still buy crates, it's because THEY like it and THEYwant to, and it is their right to spend THEIR money as THEY please.
(I personally don't understand why they choose so, but there are millions of things and points of view that I don't understand in other people anyway, we're all so damn different).

Recremen wrote: »

Why is ZOS fine with knowing that a certain number of customers are guaranteed to get nothing of value after buying the gambling boxes?

Because it brings them money ? Whether a company should or shouldn't consider "morals" when providing goods and services that people are willing to buy is a WHOLE debate with probably no certain conclusion. We live in a world where drug dealers are considered criminals because they sell stuff that's bad for the health, but we consider McDonalds standard good business even though it is proven how dangerous for the health their food is. Go figure. In both cases, there are and always will be people who take drugs and people who eat junk food, whatever law and society say.
(I'm giving those as examples, but I don't think that crown crates are nearly as bad as junk food and cocaine).

(edited for typos and such)

As less as I like it, but those are valid points as well - I give you that.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

No, don't ever add these into the game.

There's one thing that puzzles me in this whole crown crate stuff.

If someone (and there will be someone..) "wins" an exclusive item in a crown crate, he probably wear/equip it ingame for everyone to see. But everyone will know it comes from a crown crate !
Will people pretend they have only bought one crate with left over crowns - and got lucky ? (which could be true)... or admit (even proudly ?) that they have spent a fortune on crown crates to get that unique thing ?

I personally would be totally ashamed to appear in game with a crown-crate-exclusive mount, costume or pet...