What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

A lot, because they are not afraid of paying money for services, they are just not stupid enough to fall for RNG boxes.

Given my experience with Forum goers constantly mentioning that they refuse to sub I would actually think it's very little. I could be wrong but tell me how often do you see people saying they refused to sub?

Not that often, anymore. You used to see people on some issues say it. Some people will say they don't sub, but it's not that they refuse to. Back in the day, when the goldsellers were out in force, I saw some, "refuse to sub for this crap," and I think a few when the crown store first debuted. Never like this though, with lots of high level forum members saying it? No, this is unusual.

But, you have notimetocare, so... have fun, I guess?

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

A lot, because they are not afraid of paying money for services, they are just not stupid enough to fall for RNG boxes.

Given my experience with Forum goers constantly mentioning that they refuse to sub I would actually think it's very little. I could be wrong but tell me how often do you see people saying they refused to sub?

And how many say, they love their crafting bags to pieces and don't want to loose it ever again?- And how many do you see with costumes, which have different colors than those they have by default?- And all the fancy mounts people have, the huge variety of pets - the majority of players has this stuff, what clearly means, they are spending money in the game and are not cheap cakes like those "I would never sub" types - those are too cheap to have a pleasant life, don't listen to them.

Edit. Well, with this said, there are people, who live in countries where the subscription fee would mean a bigger part of their income. I do not mean that those are cheap, They are not, they are rather realistic and just cannot afford to spend that kind of money on a game.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Reposting as this is worth a read.

More info about the Crown Crates from an interview with Matt Firor:

During Gamescom last week, it was announced that Crown Crates would be coming to Elder Scrolls Online with the One Tamriel update. The announcement sparked a lot of discussion so we went straight to the source to ask Matt Firor for more details.


MMORPG: You just announced your Crown Crate system at Gamescom. What can you tell us about them?

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.
If you do receive a special premium item in a Crate that you have already purchased from the Crown Store, instead of a duplicate, you will be given Crown Gems. These Crown Gems can then be spent on a (new) section of the Crown Store to purchase another item.
So, in a nutshell: you purchase a crate of consumables, and you get the chance for cool gear that was once on the store but was discontinued – and a really rare chance of unique customization and convenience items.

MMORPG: Why now add these to ESO, several years on?

MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.

MMORPG: Are players guaranteed to get something worthwhile from boxes?

MF: Players are guaranteed to get consumables like health potions, experience point boosting scrolls, etc. You will always get something that you can use from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: What happens when there is an exclusive collectible in the crate that I want, but I never get it?

MF: There is a very good chance – especially if you are a regular collector of Crown Store items – that you will receive a collectible from a Crown Crate that you already have. When that happens, instead of a duplicate item, you will receive a new form of currency, the Crown Gem. You can then spend Crown Gems in a new section of the Crown Store where you can purchase the item that you want – including Crown Crate-exclusive items. The gem store will contain all of the collectibles available in all the Crown Crates, so you will be able to acquire the collectible you want, even if you don’t get it directly from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: Will items taken from boxes be sell-able on the in-game traders?

MF: No, you will not – Crown Crate items are the same items you purchase in the Crown Store, so they cannot be sold or traded.

MMORPG: What is your reaction to the very spirited discussions surrounding the announcement?

MF: At this point in the life cycle of ESO, we are very much accustomed to lots of discussion around our major announcements. Looking back on features like Veteran Ranks, Justice System, experience point scrolls, the Crown Store when it was first announced, our DLC strategy, etc. – all of these generated intense debate and discussion, which we welcome.

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?

MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

MMORPG: The Black Desert Online community has reacted loudly to items being sell-able on the market feeling that it makes the game pay to win. How do you plan to address similar concerns about ESO's boxes? Will the items within remain mostly cosmetic as much of ESO's crown store?

MF: Again, the items in Crown Crates are the same – with a few cosmetic-only exceptions – as the ones you can already purchase in the Crown Store, so this concern is not valid for ESO. We aren’t changing the philosophy of the Crown Store here, we are simply adding a new method for purchase that gives you the chance of receiving really cool customization and convenience items. And we will still continue to offer cool things in the Crown Store, including limited-time offer items.

reiverx

Maybe they'll start including Training and Prosperous gear, because you know how we all love that.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

With this I wonder if ZOS will be that generous to include the style parlor consumables - race change, name change and appearance change tokens in those boxes as default - my guess is, they are too cheap to do that, not generous at all.

On the other hand, dye stamps are consumables as well - wouldn't you be absolutely happy to get a 50 crown dye stamp in your box?

Marrtha

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I sub, I buy crowns on the side, but I am not even considering spending a penny on the rng boxes. If anything, if the items contained get out of hand, I might give up on giving ZOS any money. Trust me, I could live without all the crown store costumes and the crafting bag, I have done so for months before it was even a thing. I just want to support the game since it went B2P... But them having such supporters also depends on how they decide to develop the game and the gameplay. And pay to win items is a no-no in many books.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Now, I understand that's not his intent, but it is why the games he's copying used lucky bags in the first place. I really don't think Matt Firor is trying to exploit the players. But, he's simply copying a design element that was developed by far less ethical designers, who realized they could exploit their player base this way.

The ZOS Book Club is up to chapter 7 of MMO Cash Shops for Dummies... "Random Cash Bags"

AlienSlof wrote: »

I won't be buying any. I DON'T NEED the consumables, my master crafter and chef-cat can make better. I like to level in my own sweet time, thanks. I'm a retired older lady with time on my hands and a small amount of disposable income - which won't ever be spent on a gamble. Offer it straight up for a set price, then I might well say 'oooh shiny!' and buy it. I won't spend anything on a 'might get'.
Ever.

As long as the Cash Shop is second to the in-game, there will be people like you that don't buy the Crown Crates, no matter what they put in there. Whatever is in there will either be lesser to what we can create in the game, or just cosmetic and easily left in the Store.

So, you can say that today, but as ZOS has already demonstrated, multiple times, it is not afraid to go back on statements when it feels the need. Revenue is a powerful need.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Given my experience with Forum goers constantly mentioning that they refuse to sub I would actually think it's very little. I could be wrong but tell me how often do you see people saying they refused to sub?

Things change. I used to not sub, not for ideological reasons (support the game or not support this "crap", etc.) but because I didn't think back then that the product/service of subbing was worth the money. This changed with the crafting bag and ability to dye costumes, so now I sub - again, not for "supporting the game" or anything, but simply because imho the service is now worth it.

Wow

No, don't ever add these into the game.

First they said No plans for RNG Boxes.
Now they had plans for RNG Boxes.

MMORPG: Why now add these (Crown Crates) to ESO, several years on?

MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.

^So basically it says, "Because we feel like it" ?!?!


First they said cosmetic and convenience items only.
So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win? (if they feel like it)

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

So every quarter or so there is a chance that these Crown Crates would turn into Pay to win?

The game can go pay to win everyday, as soon as the devs decide to do so. They haven't gone pay to win yet, in 2 years, there's no particular reason to believe they will do it now or any time soon, crown crates or not.

wow.... a sensible, rational comment.

reiverx

It would have been pretty cool if they'd just have given the chance for a rare item with any Crown Store purchase. Something like that would ensure that you get what you pay for, with a little bit of excitement at the thought of something extra. Nice!

I'm not doing battle with RNG that I have to pay for. No thanks. We all know how RNG works (or doesn't) in this game.

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Dromede wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

catsgomeow wrote: »

The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.

I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.

Right now, yeah, that is true, and why I say "Yes, I like the idea so long as they only have cosmetic (or Store convenience)". If the saner minds inside ZOS can hold the line against those inside ZOS who would like P2W, then there is ultimately nothing wrong with these boxes, from a P2W perspective.

However, no one can deny that ZOS changes plans against what they may have stated in the past. While I am not saying they are lying, or breaking promises, and while I accept that they mean it when they say it, the fact of the matter is that they act against some of these statements. Fair enough, as changes in business can result in changes in plans.

As @ZOS_KaiSchober said, they can nitpick the answers and parse each word to stay in the letter of what they say, but I judge them on the spirit of what they say, not the letter. When they say "no locked RNG boxes", the word "locked" is irrelevant to the spirit of the statement. If they had stated last year that they would introduce "locked RNG boxes", I would not be on here today complaining that they were not selling keys like they said they would.

I don't want to have to parse everything they say literally, in the search for semantic loopholes. What does "locked" mean? What exactly is RNG? Is a crate a box? What does "plans" mean?

So, Kai, if you are reading this, it no longer matters whether ZOS has kept to statements that the Crown Store would not sell certain items, like weapons and armor. ZOS said no locked RNG boxes, and I know you don't think that Crown Crates are locked RNG boxes, but they are locked. We just never get to see the key. It is a trivial loophole. ZOS has not gone back on the "no armor and weapons" but there are loopholes there, for the gifted nitpicker. The statement means nothing if the company cannot keep to other statements it has made.

Even if ZOS keeps to some, or most, statements, I cannot tell which ones are the ones that will be kept and which are the ones that will be discarded at first convenience.

I make purchasing decisions for a 180-day term of ESO Plus, and to do that, I need to know that ZOS intends to stick by what they say. I am really not interested in spending money on future game play when I cannot even tell what the game is going to be doing. I rely upon statements like "no locked RNG boxes" to make these decisions. If I cannot trust that these statements reflect a core principle of the Studio, then it is harder to make purchasing decisions.

While it might not matter to ZOS whether @lordrichter buys ESO Plus, as I am just one player, I tend to play games I pay for more than I play free games. It matters to me.

Well said! I as well subscribe for 6 months, and i bought a bunch of crown packs on last sale expecting to use them for housing items ( on top of grtting my eso+crowns that i already blew).

I bought them before the crates announcement, and even though it's just a couple hundred dollars, i feel a little cheated. I would not have done it if i knew about crates - my sub would have been managed monthly till November, when we get to see these crates in action. I would've still spent the money, but not nearly as much. Now it doesn't matter if i support crates or not - Zos already got my money, they wouldn't care if i have anything valuable to me to spend crowns on.

I like that Kai at least showed up in the thread - i know it caused an avalanche later, but there should be someone to do damage control, comfort players and show a different point of view.

Smart, well written answer can easily eliminate about half of the concerns mentioned in this thread - it's a mystery to me why noone showed up here to do that.

Gina, Jessica, i hope you do not feel personally attacked or insulted by your frequent mentions. I'm pretty sure most people understand your position and role in this ( 'i just work here' vs 'i make decisions'). Nevertheless, people need to hear something. Because right now a lot of us sound very conflicted on the matter.

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel? I think I sent a message with my reason; that while I have higher level characters, and maxed skill crafters, I'm in guilds that have people who are running around in their Coldharbor jammies, and I'm one of the armorers/crafters for the guilds. I have to make gear for everyone, not just my personal 317cp characters. The guilds I'm in don't charge for making lower than cp level gear. If the crafters can't find the mats for themselves, its going to cost gold that not everyone has to buy them from people who have characters at the correct level to farm them, especially the lower level players.

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I have a senche tiger. I was in the beta. I've been here since early access, through all of the hassles and glitches.

I'm still subbed.

I might not be for much longer. I don't buy the "consumables". My provisioner can do as well or better. I get enough soulgems just from playing. I admit I don't buy the costumes, until this last group there weren't any I would want for any of my characters. I was buying mimic stones. I did buy respect scrolls for two of my characters. I have a lioness and the panther to keep my tiger company. I was considering two of the costumes in this latest offer.

Not now. I wanted to add two of the limited senche mounts, but I won't gamble for the chance of maybe getting one. I know what my chances of getting both would be. And I know for sure I would end up with every costume I never liked enough to buy in my collection, because you can trade in duplicates, but not something you simply don't like.

ZOS would have continued to get my sub money, they would have gotten the cost of the senche mounts outright. Now there is a very good chance they're going to lose all of the money they would have gotten from me.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I love my crafting bag. You know something though? I got along for 2 years without it, and with only 8 characters. I did buy the 4 extra slots. So if I decide to cancel my sub, I have four more mules/alts to hold stuff. It will be easier in regards to space than it was before the extra 4 slots were available.

Elijah_Crow

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I was discussing lock boxes in general with gamers on another site and trying to see both sides of the argument. The question was if regulation was needed and if it was a form of gambling so I will pose this question.

I understand the argument of course. TCG's that have a chance to have a special card. Even post NGE Star Wars Galaxies had vehicles and houses you could get from their digital TCG game. Almost everyone I know bought them for the in game items and not for the card game.

Now when you look at something like the ESO Crown Crate, it's actually a container of random consumables. How can you regulate that they can't add in (I'll go Willie Wonka here) a "Golden Ticket" item?

They are selling you consumables, but can you legislate that they NOT put in a special in game item to the box for some player?

If the cost is such that what you are getting value for your purchase, and the "Golden Ticket item" is added value, where do you draw the line?

What if the system worked like this: Every time you Purchase an item in the store, you have a random chance to get a mount, regardless of what you purchased?

Is this gambling or added value?

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JKorr wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I have a senche tiger. I was in the beta. I've been here since early access, through all of the hassles and glitches.

I'm still subbed.

I might not be for much longer. I don't buy the "consumables". My provisioner can do as well or better. I get enough soulgems just from playing. I admit I don't buy the costumes, until this last group there weren't any I would want for any of my characters. I was buying mimic stones. I did buy respect scrolls for two of my characters. I have a lioness and the panther to keep my tiger company. I was considering two of the costumes in this latest offer.

Not now. I wanted to add two of the limited senche mounts, but I won't gamble for the chance of maybe getting one. I know what my chances of getting both would be. And I know for sure I would end up with every costume I never liked enough to buy in my collection, because you can trade in duplicates, but not something you simply don't like.

ZOS would have continued to get my sub money, they would have gotten the cost of the senche mounts outright. Now there is a very good chance they're going to lose all of the money they would have gotten from me.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I love my crafting bag. You know something though? I got along for 2 years without it, and with only 8 characters. I did buy the 4 extra slots. So if I decide to cancel my sub, I have four more mules/alts to hold stuff. It will be easier in regards to space than it was before the extra 4 slots were available.

Yeah, but it is like going back to Morrowind in a way - no voice acting, annoying UI, combat with an awful lot of misses and stuff like that - it WAS ok in the past, but after you have experienced the present, it IS NO LONGER that ok as it was before.

MissBizz

No, don't ever add these into the game.

@Elijah_Crow I believe I see where you are going with that, but I feel the comparison to having a chance to win something extra when you buy anything is too different.

If that were so, would there be items that are only available as the "bonus" item?

Another note is that you would then have a variety of base items to choose from, and know exactly what you are purchasing and can make your decision. In that case the possible "bonus" mount is just that.

In the case of boxes, you are purchasing "consumables" but even then, you don't actually know what consumable you are purchasing. Could be crown scrolls, could be potions etc. With your example, you know EXACTLY what you are purchasing, as well you actually have a choice in what you are purchasing. I think that makes the difference quite vast.

JKorr

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I have a senche tiger. I was in the beta. I've been here since early access, through all of the hassles and glitches.

I'm still subbed.

I might not be for much longer. I don't buy the "consumables". My provisioner can do as well or better. I get enough soulgems just from playing. I admit I don't buy the costumes, until this last group there weren't any I would want for any of my characters. I was buying mimic stones. I did buy respect scrolls for two of my characters. I have a lioness and the panther to keep my tiger company. I was considering two of the costumes in this latest offer.

Not now. I wanted to add two of the limited senche mounts, but I won't gamble for the chance of maybe getting one. I know what my chances of getting both would be. And I know for sure I would end up with every costume I never liked enough to buy in my collection, because you can trade in duplicates, but not something you simply don't like.

ZOS would have continued to get my sub money, they would have gotten the cost of the senche mounts outright. Now there is a very good chance they're going to lose all of the money they would have gotten from me.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I love my crafting bag. You know something though? I got along for 2 years without it, and with only 8 characters. I did buy the 4 extra slots. So if I decide to cancel my sub, I have four more mules/alts to hold stuff. It will be easier in regards to space than it was before the extra 4 slots were available.

Yeah, but it is like going back to Morrowind in a way - no voice acting, annoying UI, combat with an awful lot of misses and stuff like that - it WAS ok in the past, but after you have experienced the present, it IS NO LONGER that ok as it was before.

No, it would be not as good as it was in the recent past with the crafting bag. But I won't contribute to the rng box system with my sub if it works out the way it appears to be heading. I used the crowns I got from the sub to buy the dlc I wanted. I'll still have access to what I want to play. I just won't have the crowns for new dlc or items until I decide the items are worth it, then I'll buy the crowns I need. Any leftover crowns, because you know they won't sell specific amounts of crowns, from the items I really want, I can spend on mimic stone. I'll still be crafting.

And I still play Morrowind. I really prefer no voice acting in most cases. The voices really wrecked FO4 for me. I haven't played it in weeks, and never came close to finishing the main story. Don't have much interest in continuing. Voices for the main character killed the DA games for me as well. About the only one I can play without too much of a problem is ME, only because I like Jen Hale's va.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JKorr wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I have a senche tiger. I was in the beta. I've been here since early access, through all of the hassles and glitches.

I'm still subbed.

I might not be for much longer. I don't buy the "consumables". My provisioner can do as well or better. I get enough soulgems just from playing. I admit I don't buy the costumes, until this last group there weren't any I would want for any of my characters. I was buying mimic stones. I did buy respect scrolls for two of my characters. I have a lioness and the panther to keep my tiger company. I was considering two of the costumes in this latest offer.

Not now. I wanted to add two of the limited senche mounts, but I won't gamble for the chance of maybe getting one. I know what my chances of getting both would be. And I know for sure I would end up with every costume I never liked enough to buy in my collection, because you can trade in duplicates, but not something you simply don't like.

ZOS would have continued to get my sub money, they would have gotten the cost of the senche mounts outright. Now there is a very good chance they're going to lose all of the money they would have gotten from me.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I love my crafting bag. You know something though? I got along for 2 years without it, and with only 8 characters. I did buy the 4 extra slots. So if I decide to cancel my sub, I have four more mules/alts to hold stuff. It will be easier in regards to space than it was before the extra 4 slots were available.

Yeah, but it is like going back to Morrowind in a way - no voice acting, annoying UI, combat with an awful lot of misses and stuff like that - it WAS ok in the past, but after you have experienced the present, it IS NO LONGER that ok as it was before.

No, it would be not as good as it was in the recent past with the crafting bag. But I won't contribute to the rng box system with my sub if it works out the way it appears to be heading. I used the crowns I got from the sub to buy the dlc I wanted. I'll still have access to what I want to play. I just won't have the crowns for new dlc or items until I decide the items are worth it, then I'll buy the crowns I need. Any leftover crowns, because you know they won't sell specific amounts of crowns, from the items I really want, I can spend on mimic stone. I'll still be crafting.

And I still play Morrowind. I really prefer no voice acting in most cases. The voices really wrecked FO4 for me. I haven't played it in weeks, and never came close to finishing the main story. Don't have much interest in continuing. Voices for the main character killed the DA games for me as well. About the only one I can play without too much of a problem is ME, only because I like Jen Hale's va.

I'm heading a similar way. Soon $15 a month is all they will get from me and the crowns will not be going to rng boxes. They will only the sub when they release new content so when my sub lapses I likely won't spend a dime for the next 6 months. I've been happy to support this game but my faith on the direction the game is fading.

I want to support this game. I have been subbed since launch and buy crowns for mounts and costumes. I just don't see it as wise anymore when this game is becoming the same as others I have tried to distance myself from.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JKorr wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

I have a senche tiger. I was in the beta. I've been here since early access, through all of the hassles and glitches.

I'm still subbed.

I might not be for much longer. I don't buy the "consumables". My provisioner can do as well or better. I get enough soulgems just from playing. I admit I don't buy the costumes, until this last group there weren't any I would want for any of my characters. I was buying mimic stones. I did buy respect scrolls for two of my characters. I have a lioness and the panther to keep my tiger company. I was considering two of the costumes in this latest offer.

Not now. I wanted to add two of the limited senche mounts, but I won't gamble for the chance of maybe getting one. I know what my chances of getting both would be. And I know for sure I would end up with every costume I never liked enough to buy in my collection, because you can trade in duplicates, but not something you simply don't like.

ZOS would have continued to get my sub money, they would have gotten the cost of the senche mounts outright. Now there is a very good chance they're going to lose all of the money they would have gotten from me.

EDIT: forgot to mention; I love my crafting bag. You know something though? I got along for 2 years without it, and with only 8 characters. I did buy the 4 extra slots. So if I decide to cancel my sub, I have four more mules/alts to hold stuff. It will be easier in regards to space than it was before the extra 4 slots were available.

Yeah, but it is like going back to Morrowind in a way - no voice acting, annoying UI, combat with an awful lot of misses and stuff like that - it WAS ok in the past, but after you have experienced the present, it IS NO LONGER that ok as it was before.

No, it would be not as good as it was in the recent past with the crafting bag. But I won't contribute to the rng box system with my sub if it works out the way it appears to be heading. I used the crowns I got from the sub to buy the dlc I wanted. I'll still have access to what I want to play. I just won't have the crowns for new dlc or items until I decide the items are worth it, then I'll buy the crowns I need. Any leftover crowns, because you know they won't sell specific amounts of crowns, from the items I really want, I can spend on mimic stone. I'll still be crafting.

And I still play Morrowind. I really prefer no voice acting in most cases. The voices really wrecked FO4 for me. I haven't played it in weeks, and never came close to finishing the main story. Don't have much interest in continuing. Voices for the main character killed the DA games for me as well. About the only one I can play without too much of a problem is ME, only because I like Jen Hale's va.

Oh, too bad, Fallout 4 is awesome in the new survival mode - quite challenging but it has those roleplay elements which were missing before. i love all the DLCs as well - and as far as voice acting goes, I really love Cait and her irish accent, she is a real tomboy, but deep in her soul she is a very vulnerable and lovable person (at least after you cured her addiction). This character would not be as good without voice acting - or think of Nick, he is a great character as well and the way in which he makes his remarks and comments is just hilarious sometimes - I like the voice acting in Fallout 4 a whole lot.

SilentRaven1972

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

If you win an item, what you already have in your collection, you get Crown Gems - not crowns - but just if you have this item already. If you do not have it, it will be added to your collection instead, if you want it or not - this is your win then.

And that makes it worse. If I had wanted that costume/pet/consumable, I would have bought it outright. I run mostly Khajiit characters. They DO NOT look good in skimpy outfits or certain other outfits. It's not who they are, so I never bought those items. I buy what I like, what works, and what suits my characters. I have multiple mounts, even if I only use some once or twice a year. I'm not willing to gamble getting junk I don't need or want for a chance at something that does suit my characters. If I can't buy it outright, I don't buy at all.

Now guess how happy someone will be, who plays just male characters and wins all the female costumes for thousands of boxes bought.

Well, any Orcs that don't have a wedding dress might be happy (Yeah, I know, those are still available)

They keep pushing "You're buying a box of mystery consumables, with a chance at a shiny". But I have no use for those consumables. I'm running 12 characters on 2 accounts. I've bought a few XP scrolls, but have enough saved up for now. I've never bought (or needed) food, drink, repair kits, soul gems, etc., unless it was on the test server (when regular characters aren't imported). If a shiny is for sale, and I want it for a character/characters, I will buy it outright, many times twice so it's on both accounts. Not gonna gamble just hoping to get a shiny, especially with 2 accounts to supply.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

If you win an item, what you already have in your collection, you get Crown Gems - not crowns - but just if you have this item already. If you do not have it, it will be added to your collection instead, if you want it or not - this is your win then.

And that makes it worse. If I had wanted that costume/pet/consumable, I would have bought it outright. I run mostly Khajiit characters. They DO NOT look good in skimpy outfits or certain other outfits. It's not who they are, so I never bought those items. I buy what I like, what works, and what suits my characters. I have multiple mounts, even if I only use some once or twice a year. I'm not willing to gamble getting junk I don't need or want for a chance at something that does suit my characters. If I can't buy it outright, I don't buy at all.

Now guess how happy someone will be, who plays just male characters and wins all the female costumes for thousands of boxes bought.

Well, any Orcs that don't have a wedding dress might be happy (Yeah, I know, those are still available)

They keep pushing "You're buying a box of mystery consumables, with a chance at a shiny". But I have no use for those consumables. I'm running 12 characters on 2 accounts. I've bought a few XP scrolls, but have enough saved up for now. I've never bought (or needed) food, drink, repair kits, soul gems, etc., unless it was on the test server (when regular characters aren't imported). If a shiny is for sale, and I want it for a character/characters, I will buy it outright, many times twice so it's on both accounts. Not gonna gamble just hoping to get a shiny, especially with 2 accounts to supply.

Yes, pretty much the same for me - all my characters are lvl 50 provisioners and can make their food and beverages on their own, I do not need crown store stuff in this regard. I have still nearly a year of ESO+ left, so I do not ahve to spend anything on that anytime soon, I used my last crowns yesterday and am at zero crowns now - so I do not have to look at the crown store again. I could not buy anything anyway. I think, that my time in ESO will be running out in August 2017 if not earlier. If it is too painful to not be able to buy anything without to have to support ZOS again, I will just let go on it and play something else.

I made up my mind about this, and if those RNG boxes stay, they will not see any more money from me ever again - the whole zenimax group, not just ZOS.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

JKorr wrote: »

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel?

Yes. My hope is that the developers understand this better. We will see next week.

Recremen wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

I know that some people disagree with what I consider to be the target market, but I have to say that the people who are likely to unsubscribe over this are unlikely to be part of the Crown Crate target market. Yes, I am sure that ZOS wants those people to stick around and pay for ESO Plus. I am equally sure that they are expecting some fallout of this nature and expect that the revenue from the Crown Crates will compensate, and more, for losses among those who 'leave' in protest. "It's just business"

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel?

Yes. My hope is that the developers understand this better. We will see next week.

Recremen wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

I know that some people disagree with what I consider to be the target market, but I have to say that the people who are likely to unsubscribe over this are unlikely to be part of the Crown Crate target market. Yes, I am sure that ZOS wants those people to stick around and pay for ESO Plus. I am equally sure that they are expecting some fallout of this nature and expect that the revenue from the Crown Crates will compensate, and more, for losses among those who 'leave' in protest. "It's just business"

Well, Elder Scrolls have been a part of my life for so long - now it is going to become a game, which is increasingly not making me happy - and like in any relationship, which is no running well, you have to consider, is it worth to fight for it or is it better to let go and part ways. ZOS is not the kind of "partner" in this case, which would argue, they are stubbornly going their way - so the only alternative which is healthy is to part ways - and that is IMO, what people express with unsubscribing - they are signalizing "we are going to part ways, if you will not change" - that is what they will do in the end, because ZOS won't change.

It is basically like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjEx15j0Vq4

Vikaernes

No, don't ever add these into the game.

So if what I am reading is correct, the super rare, lockbox only items are going to be cycled in and out of those things in "seasons" right? While I think this is awful, and should not exist in the first place... if they must do it, then maybe a smart way to go about trying to alleviate concerns would be to offer those exclusive lockbox only items for sale on the crown store directly, once that "season" has ended? At least this way, if someone wanted a chance at those specific items but did not feel comfortable rolling the dice with a gambling box, all they would have to do is wait a little while.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel?

Yes. My hope is that the developers understand this better. We will see next week.

Recremen wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

I know that some people disagree with what I consider to be the target market, but I have to say that the people who are likely to unsubscribe over this are unlikely to be part of the Crown Crate target market. Yes, I am sure that ZOS wants those people to stick around and pay for ESO Plus. I am equally sure that they are expecting some fallout of this nature and expect that the revenue from the Crown Crates will compensate, and more, for losses among those who 'leave' in protest. "It's just business"

Well, Elder Scrolls have been a part of my life for so long - now it is going to become a game, which is increasingly not making me happy - and like in any relationship, which is no running well, you have to consider, is it worth to fight for it or is it better to let go and part ways. ZOS is not the kind of "partner" in this case, which would argue, they are stubbornly going their way - so the only alternative which is healthy is to part ways - and that is IMO, what people express with unsubscribing - they are signalizing "we are going to part ways, if you will not change" - that is what they will do in the end, because ZOS won't change.

I actually feel the same way, just not over Crown Crates. One Tamriel is my "fight" with them, specifically how they scale zones and players, and within that, resources.

They talk like they want to make the game more attractive to Skyrim players, but I am expecting that Skyrim might be a better MMO implementation of crafting resources than ESO. An oddly backwards perspective.

clayandaudrey_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Vikaernes wrote: »

So if what I am reading is correct, the super rare, lockbox only items are going to be cycled in and out of those things in "seasons" right? While I think this is awful, and should not exist in the first place... if they must do it, then maybe a smart way to go about trying to alleviate concerns would be to offer those exclusive lockbox only items for sale on the crown store directly, once that "season" has ended? At least this way, if someone wanted a chance at those specific items but did not feel comfortable rolling the dice with a gambling box, all they would have to do is wait a little while.

That defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do. Check out how SWTOR'S Cartel Market works. This will be the same.

And for you people thinking about the gem store, SWTOR'S cartel certificates were dang near impossible to get to buy the stuff from the vendor.

Esquire1980g_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

@clayandaudrey_ESO, in general, I don't think you're wrong about players saying they'll leave over something and then not following through. It's just, this is not one of those times. This is something people feel very strongly about, to the point that they're willing to leave rather than watch the unfolding carnage to a game they used to enjoy.

Unless you're @elvenmad, poor guy can't look away.

Yeah I know. This game that I have loved for 3 years is going to be a memory to me now. I can't stay. The whole cheating debacle that has been going since beta and now this is just too much.

I really hope that this doesn't come to pass. If for some reason it does go away I will come back but my trust is just gone.

And @Cazzy I am not attacking you. Sorry that my frustration came out a little but it usually does when something you love goes away. Hitting zos where it hurts is the only course of action that will make them see. Just wish more people would do it as well.

No, no it's fine - I didn't necessarily mean you. I think the topic is just a very passionate one.

I completely relate to how you feel. I was packing my bags a few days ago. I realised after that I would only be hurting myself as I would be cutting off a community I love dearly. So my compromise has to be to not to spend any money and keep urging them to adjust their plans slightly.

I really hope you don't leave @clayandaudrey_ESO

I've seen it go on both sides of the fence.

Back in SWG's NGE. I left the game for 6 months and just couldn't find anything to replace it with. EMU was started at that time, but there wasn't much to it at that time. So, I went back and stayed until they announced the closure. However, about 2/3rds of the entire playerbase left at NGE. 90% of them did not come back. A few stuck they're heads in at the 30 days free plays they came out with to try and lure people back, but that was mainly to say hi, see if there was anyone left in their guilds, and ck and see if their houses were even in the game at that late date. But, as soon as the free play was over, they were mostly gone again. The SWG playerbase NEVER came back from that and with simple attrition, there just wasn't many left at all when they turned the servers off. Even with all that, SOE NEVER reversed their decision.

I doubt ZOS will ever reverse their decision either. After STO and TOR me and mine have made the decision that we are not going to sit back, again and watch developers destroy their own game.

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I was discussing lock boxes in general with gamers on another site and trying to see both sides of the argument. The question was if regulation was needed and if it was a form of gambling so I will pose this question.

I understand the argument of course. TCG's that have a chance to have a special card. Even post NGE Star Wars Galaxies had vehicles and houses you could get from their digital TCG game. Almost everyone I know bought them for the in game items and not for the card game.

Now when you look at something like the ESO Crown Crate, it's actually a container of random consumables. How can you regulate that they can't add in (I'll go Willie Wonka here) a "Golden Ticket" item?

They are selling you consumables, but can you legislate that they NOT put in a special in game item to the box for some player?

If the cost is such that what you are getting value for your purchase, and the "Golden Ticket item" is added value, where do you draw the line?

What if the system worked like this: Every time you Purchase an item in the store, you have a random chance to get a mount, regardless of what you purchased?

Is this gambling or added value?

I wasn't planning on posting any longer as I have cancelled my subs and haven't logged in in days, (for the guy asking if anyone un-subbed, our entire guild left), but you mentioned SWG, so I couldn't resist.

To use another SWG analogy, "The Kool-Aid is strong with this one".

I would imagine that someone with a somewhat legal background told ZOS to "change the precept and discussion" as people here had posted several statutes and internet regulations on "gambling" throughout the entire world, even Court cases being brought by several State Atty Generals for some of the same offenses. I would of if I would of been in the same situation.

But....., I'll try and answer your question with a few other questions. You can come your own answers(s). If I add towels to a Casino and then, in turn, call it a Spa, does that make it any less of a Casino? Then value comes into play with these lockboxes and that would be very interesting in a Discovery motion. How much "value" is there in their "consumables" being that most of these "consumables" are not as potent as the "consumables" you can get in-game from crafters, with in-game currency which supposedly hold(s) no real "value"? Will they then, make the store "consumables" more potent to uphold "value"? Will they include other "consumables" in those "crates" to increase/provide the "value"? Like Gold upgrades? Then taxes? Suppose ZOS gets a verdict that these virtual items hold(s) real value? Would existing tax law, in many, many counties apply? Personal property taxes, EU's VAT tax, etc? Would some political person, somewhere, want a raise and write a bill to specifically include these items as personal property/income? You can call the sky pink, but will that make it any less blue?

Speaking of SWG, SWGCHOICE is now making a comeback. Keep "google-ing" that term.

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

lordrichter wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Isn't Kai the one who didn't understand why crafters might be upset if they can't find low level materials anymore in One Tamriel?

Yes. My hope is that the developers understand this better. We will see next week.

Recremen wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Wonder how many of the naysayers sub...

Probably a lot of them since I keep seeing people say "I'm cancelling my sub over this". I'm not sure why that matters, though. Even people who don't sub buy things from the Crown Store, like DLC or costumes and pets that they want.

I know that some people disagree with what I consider to be the target market, but I have to say that the people who are likely to unsubscribe over this are unlikely to be part of the Crown Crate target market. Yes, I am sure that ZOS wants those people to stick around and pay for ESO Plus. I am equally sure that they are expecting some fallout of this nature and expect that the revenue from the Crown Crates will compensate, and more, for losses among those who 'leave' in protest. "It's just business"

We're already seeing the usual change of heart that always happens when some players' first reaction to a change they don't agree with is is to say they are quitting. Few end up actually leaving and most of those return before long. I'm sure developers factor that into their thinking over what they know will be contentious issues.