What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Xsorus

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Blackbird71 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

catsgomeow wrote: »

The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.

I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.

Do you really not see the irony in that statement? You are claiming that those who said the game would become P2W were wrong, yet here we are witnessing the next step on the path to P2W being laid out right before our eyes. No one said it would happen instantly, but rather the opposite, that it is a slow and steady progression which the game is continuously moving towards.

So your argument is "We weren't over reacting before because the game is going to become P2W any day now after this just you wait!"

*grin*

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

It's not going to be p2w. I have played many other games that have implemented the same thing that never went that route. It still is a negative direction to take the game in. These things were made popular in f2p games and probably mobile games. It is a cheap marketing ploy to get people to spend thousands (and they will) in order to get what they want. Matt argues that even so they contain consumables, xp potions, and other things on the store. However, these items are of little value to the player base. It's the extremely rare or past cosmetics that are what players are after.

These random boxes do not belong in a title such as this. They needed to show a little more integrity and continue with transparent business transactions, not f2p marketing schemes.

Yup.

Firor's answer to the people who don't get what they are looking for in the bag is to collect Gems, then buy it directly in the Gem Store. That really speaks to what they are trying to accomplish. They want people to play Lucky Bag so they will earn Gems. To drive people to collect Gems, the really good stuff will be in the Lucky Bags.

Just like the national lottery the 'good stuff' is when you win, otherwise its a cash sink ^^

Plus also remember you only get gems 'IF' you get a rare or exclusive item you already have

Which confuses me. Who is this system for? Long term players probably started playing this mmo because it wasn't like f2p MMO's. They are likely the ones with the collectables and wouldn't ever consider buying these. The new players who might be open to these things likely don't have the collectables. It's like how can we rip off a f2p model and make it as useless as possible.

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Well, I see most people have seen the article on MMORPG... nice of them to take information THERE, instead of telling it to us directly HERE in this now 74 page thread. So much for 'communication with players directly'.

First, I have to admit I was wrong, based on what they said before, it appeared that the only way to get certain items was based upon buying the lotto boxes... but now it appears you WILL be able to buy them with gems. However, I can only imagine that the cost for these 'rare items' will be such a huge amount in gems that will only promote further gambling.

Funny how he also mentions going to subscription optional... but then he skirts the issue of the reality that ZOS needs this type of thing to add additional revenue. He doesn't say it directly, but the fact he mentions going subscription optional tells me that this is SOLELY a financial decision and has nothing to do with 'adding something new and different'. Then he wonders why people don't trust anything that ZOS says. Go figure.

Further, he acts like people are buying all these consumables, but I'm betting the reality is different. I don't know many people who would buy these consumables when you can get MUCH better ones in-game for far cheaper- speaking of foods and potions, and even soul gems we receive in-game for free. So in effect, they're selling us items that will completely worthless to most people, other than XP Scrolls and Repair kits. Essentially then, these items will just sit in our inventory or we will destroy them, because we have no use for them. People won't buy these for the consumables, and Matt KNOWS this, they will only buy them for the rare items. I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Offering these rare and exclusive items behind a lottery paywall (gems), and not even offering them at higher regular Crown prices... THAT is the part that irks me the most.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

It's not going to be p2w. I have played many other games that have implemented the same thing that never went that route. It still is a negative direction to take the game in. These things were made popular in f2p games and probably mobile games. It is a cheap marketing ploy to get people to spend thousands (and they will) in order to get what they want. Matt argues that even so they contain consumables, xp potions, and other things on the store. However, these items are of little value to the player base. It's the extremely rare or past cosmetics that are what players are after.

These random boxes do not belong in a title such as this. They needed to show a little more integrity and continue with transparent business transactions, not f2p marketing schemes.

Yup.

Firor's answer to the people who don't get what they are looking for in the bag is to collect Gems, then buy it directly in the Gem Store. That really speaks to what they are trying to accomplish. They want people to play Lucky Bag so they will earn Gems. To drive people to collect Gems, the really good stuff will be in the Lucky Bags.

Just like the national lottery the 'good stuff' is when you win, otherwise its a cash sink ^^

Plus also remember you only get gems 'IF' you get a rare or exclusive item you already have

Which confuses me. Who is this system for? Long term players probably started playing this mmo because it wasn't like f2p MMO's. They are likely the ones with the collectables and wouldn't ever consider buying these. The new players who might be open to these things likely don't have the collectables. It's like how can we rip off a f2p model and make it as useless as possible.

I would say this is aimed at new players and those who have not experienced these cash RNG box schemes before and also obviously 'whales', but that's just my opinion

As for collectables, they should all be available within the game, just from playing and doing special achieves, they should never be in a shop at all.

I duno about long term players, I've only been playing maybe 3 months and I came here because I left Blade and Soul due to them introducing cash shop RNG boxes, and came here due to the reason there was none here, and everything look fair with no hidden things you had to pay or gamble for.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, I see most people have seen the article on MMORPG... nice of them to take information THERE, instead of telling it to us directly HERE in this now 74 page thread. So much for 'communication with players directly'.

First, I have to admit I was wrong, based on what they said before, it appeared that the only way to get certain items was based upon buying the lotto boxes... but now it appears you WILL be able to buy them with gems. However, I can only imagine that the cost for these 'rare items' will be such a huge amount in gems that will only promote further gambling.

Funny how he also mentions going to subscription optional... but then he skirts the issue of the reality that ZOS needs this type of thing to add additional revenue. He doesn't say it directly, but the fact he mentions going subscription optional tells me that this is SOLELY a financial decision and has nothing to do with 'adding something new and different'. Then he wonders why people don't trust anything that ZOS says. Go figure.

Further, he acts like people are buying all these consumables, but I'm betting the reality is different. I don't know many people who would buy these consumables when you can get MUCH better ones in-game for far cheaper- speaking of foods and potions, and even soul gems we receive in-game for free. So in effect, they're selling us items that will completely worthless to most people, other than XP Scrolls and Repair kits. Essentially then, these items will just sit in our inventory or we will destroy them, because we have no use for them. People won't buy these for the consumables, and Matt KNOWS this, they will only buy them for the rare items. I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Offering these rare and exclusive items behind a lottery paywall (gems), and not even offering them at higher regular Crown prices... THAT is the part that irks me the most.

Yeah I read the article and made a post there a few hours ago. Brought up the same points. It's going to be ignored there as well.

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

elvenmad wrote: »

I would say this is aimed at new players and those who have not experienced these cash RNG box schemes before and also obviously 'whales', but that's just my opinion

No, it is aimed squarely and precisely at the 'whales' and no one else. They will put 'whale food' in the 'Lucky Bag Traps' and and sit back and watch the fun!

Humor aside, yes, they are looking to capitalize on the "one percent" that will take off and buy these in the extreme. This is why they don't need to worry about what people say in the forum. As long as the 1% buys them, and buys them a lot, the other 99% can say what they want. Seriously.

If I were doing this, I would attempt to balance things so that moderately large numbers (like 100) could be attained with dedication, but not extreme dedication. The number 100 sounds like a lot, but it also sounds like an attainable number. Someone coming into the forum saying they have 100 Gems will drive others to compete. After all, only gamers play ESO, and Lucky Bags is a game.

Just wait until we start to find out how many of these Gems some people have collected.

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

JimT722 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

But see, that's what ESO is famous for... 'reinventing itself' every year. First we had "Launch" a year later we had "Tamriel Unlimited", and now this year we have "One Tamriel"... it's clearly a desperate ploy to try and attract new players because 7M players is NOTHING to brag about when talking about a major world-wide MMO title. Prior to launch on XBOX One, DCUO had OVER 12M ACCOUNTS... I think that speaks for itself how badly ESO is doing in comparison to other MMOs.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

More info about the Crown Crates from an interview with Matt Firor:

During Gamescom last week, it was announced that Crown Crates would be coming to Elder Scrolls Online with the One Tamriel update. The announcement sparked a lot of discussion so we went straight to the source to ask Matt Firor for more details.


MMORPG: You just announced your Crown Crate system at Gamescom. What can you tell us about them?

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.
If you do receive a special premium item in a Crate that you have already purchased from the Crown Store, instead of a duplicate, you will be given Crown Gems. These Crown Gems can then be spent on a (new) section of the Crown Store to purchase another item.
So, in a nutshell: you purchase a crate of consumables, and you get the chance for cool gear that was once on the store but was discontinued – and a really rare chance of unique customization and convenience items.

MMORPG: Why now add these to ESO, several years on?

MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.

MMORPG: Are players guaranteed to get something worthwhile from boxes?

MF: Players are guaranteed to get consumables like health potions, experience point boosting scrolls, etc. You will always get something that you can use from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: What happens when there is an exclusive collectible in the crate that I want, but I never get it?

MF: There is a very good chance – especially if you are a regular collector of Crown Store items – that you will receive a collectible from a Crown Crate that you already have. When that happens, instead of a duplicate item, you will receive a new form of currency, the Crown Gem. You can then spend Crown Gems in a new section of the Crown Store where you can purchase the item that you want – including Crown Crate-exclusive items. The gem store will contain all of the collectibles available in all the Crown Crates, so you will be able to acquire the collectible you want, even if you don’t get it directly from a Crown Crate.

MMORPG: Will items taken from boxes be sell-able on the in-game traders?

MF: No, you will not – Crown Crate items are the same items you purchase in the Crown Store, so they cannot be sold or traded.

MMORPG: What is your reaction to the very spirited discussions surrounding the announcement?

MF: At this point in the life cycle of ESO, we are very much accustomed to lots of discussion around our major announcements. Looking back on features like Veteran Ranks, Justice System, experience point scrolls, the Crown Store when it was first announced, our DLC strategy, etc. – all of these generated intense debate and discussion, which we welcome.

MMORPG: How can you alleviate the concerns that players have expressed?

MF: I think the most common concern is that this is a slippery slope that will lead to monetization chaos and pay-to-win. However, since almost all of the items in Crown Crates are already in the Crown Store to begin with (with the exception of the unique mounts and customization items), that is a baseless fear. Our #1 mantra for virtual currency monetization is “do no harm” – meaning, don’t rock the boat by introducing items into the game that directly influence player power. This is a core design philosophy for the game, and we are not changing it by introducing Crown Crates.
I think it is worth noting that much of this same commentary was expressed when we initially announced the Crown Store back in 2015 – slippery slope, pay-to-win, etc. – there was lots of fear then that was alleviated once players got a chance to see it and try it out for themselves.

MMORPG: The Black Desert Online community has reacted loudly to items being sell-able on the market feeling that it makes the game pay to win. How do you plan to address similar concerns about ESO's boxes? Will the items within remain mostly cosmetic as much of ESO's crown store?

MF: Again, the items in Crown Crates are the same – with a few cosmetic-only exceptions – as the ones you can already purchase in the Crown Store, so this concern is not valid for ESO. We aren’t changing the philosophy of the Crown Store here, we are simply adding a new method for purchase that gives you the chance of receiving really cool customization and convenience items. And we will still continue to offer cool things in the Crown Store, including limited-time offer items.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

But see, that's what ESO is famous for... 'reinventing itself' every year. First we had "Launch" a year later we had "Tamriel Unlimited", and now this year we have "One Tamriel"... it's clearly a desperate ploy to try and attract new players because 7M players is NOTHING to brag about when talking about a major world-wide MMO title. Prior to launch on XBOX One, DCUO had OVER 12M ACCOUNTS... I think that speaks for itself how badly ESO is doing in comparison to other MMOs.

That's a great point. however, eso is in a slightly different market. It will always be as long as it's buy 2 play and DCUO is f2p. At this point it's becoming hard to tell the difference. Oh my, they aren't preparing to go free to play? At this point it wouldn't surprise me.

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

I have to disagree about not bringing in new players in terms of One Tamriel. Being able to go anywhere at any level is kind of a huge deal, and very unique in MMO's. I also disagree regarding Elder Scrolls fans. We've always had an open world where you could go anywhere, this game's inception actually broke expectations by not being open. One Tamriel is a change that people have been requesting for basically forever, with the only real naysayers being certain RP types who drank the faction kool-aid. The rest of us RPers are loving the idea. ;-) Sure makes cross-faction events easier, too.

The thing about this patch that I DO imagine might be bad for attracting new players is the gambling boxes. The MMO community as a whole seems to be entirely sick of that model. ZOS' marketing folks have tried dressing it up real pretty, and to their credit they've still kept out the b2w content, but it's not like that's the only problem with the model. When it comes down to it, people who love the game aren't going to be able to support it as much because there's going to be less legitimate Crown Store content. I like the different mounts and costumes and pets they've come out with, but I've had no need for any consumable items. I'm not going to start buying gambling boxes for random consumables just so I can gamble on a really cool mount, and it seems like a lot of other players are in the same boat.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Recremen wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

I have to disagree about not bringing in new players in terms of One Tamriel. Being able to go anywhere at any level is kind of a huge deal, and very unique in MMO's. I also disagree regarding Elder Scrolls fans. We've always had an open world where you could go anywhere, this game's inception actually broke expectations by not being open. One Tamriel is a change that people have been requesting for basically forever, with the only real naysayers being certain RP types who drank the faction kool-aid. The rest of us RPers are loving the idea. ;-) Sure makes cross-faction events easier, too.

The thing about this patch that I DO imagine might be bad for attracting new players is the gambling boxes. The MMO community as a whole seems to be entirely sick of that model. ZOS' marketing folks have tried dressing it up real pretty, and to their credit they've still kept out the b2w content, but it's not like that's the only problem with the model. When it comes down to it, people who love the game aren't going to be able to support it as much because there's going to be less legitimate Crown Store content. I like the different mounts and costumes and pets they've come out with, but I've had no need for any consumable items. I'm not going to start buying gambling boxes for random consumables just so I can gamble on a really cool mount, and it seems like a lot of other players are in the same boat.

The changes to the zones are new player friendly. Most people I know who play this its because they love elder scrolls or MMO's. everyone else I've talked to irl doesn't know or care about this game. Probably most new players come from recommendations from people already playing. So you could be right again. With these gambling boxes I can't in good conscience recommend this game anymore.

wayfarerx

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

JimT722 wrote: »

With these gambling boxes I can't in good conscience recommend this game anymore.

With the gambling boxes I'm embarrassed to recommend this game anymore. I was thinking about gifting a couple gold editions to IRL friends that never really got into the game. Now I would just feel like a drug dealer offering the first hit for free

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Blackbird71 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

catsgomeow wrote: »

The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.

I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.

Do you really not see the irony in that statement? You are claiming that those who said the game would become P2W were wrong, yet here we are witnessing the next step on the path to P2W being laid out right before our eyes. No one said it would happen instantly, but rather the opposite, that it is a slow and steady progression which the game is continuously moving towards.

And yet we are no nearer P2W now than we were then. You cannot point to a single item in the Crown Store or Crown Crates that is essential to buy or which conveys a gaming advantage to anyone who buys it. We're only now on the next step to P2W for those who thought B2P was the first step, and it turned out to be nothing of the sort. Nothing we've been told yet suggests that Crown Crates will be any more P2W than B2P has turned out to be.

VerboseQuips

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

There is another interesting article out there on WCCF Tech...

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players...
"So you believe it will have a strong appeal to players.

Yes, especially new players."

Anyone thought about Cross-Play... it's NOT HAPPENING.

"Lately there’s been a trend of bringing online communities together through cross-play. Is that something you’re evaluating for Elder Scrolls Online?

That is not a technical issue, it’s a business issue. We’re on different platforms and each partner has its own ideas on which groups they want their players to be with. It’s easier for everyone if they’re just in separate communities, that’s just the way it is for now."

How about DX12... NOT HAPPENING 'for now'.

"Speaking about the PC version, a while back in a Twitch livestream it was mentioned that Zenimax would be working on DirectX 12. Is that still being worked on?

We’re DX11 now and for the range of PCs that we have to support around the world, that’s the right decision for us. When you go to DirectX 12 there are restrictions, we’re good where we are for now."

This makes little sense. I doubt they will be able to attract many new players. If they haven't picked it up now, One Tamriel isn't going to do that. I've tried to get friends, family, and co workers to play this game. I haven't succeeded with a single one. It's the players playing now that they should be trying to keep. There new direction isn't likely to satisfy long term elder scrolls fans or mmo players.

Actually, One Tamriel could attract new players. I have some friends who bought the game during a steam sale, they barely ever played it, but they seem to be interested by One Tamriel, among other things because it would make it easier to play together.

However, we talked about it before we got to know these RNG boxes were coming, and knowing that they (well, at least one of them) hate microtransactions and cash grabs, I think they will just forget about the game. Furthermore, considering the depth of my own disappointment over this matter, I will most probably not be able to convince people of playing the game, since I am not convinced anymore myself.
They may well have destroyed their best chance at attracting new players by trying to get more quick cash.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Tandor wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

catsgomeow wrote: »

The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.

I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.

Do you really not see the irony in that statement? You are claiming that those who said the game would become P2W were wrong, yet here we are witnessing the next step on the path to P2W being laid out right before our eyes. No one said it would happen instantly, but rather the opposite, that it is a slow and steady progression which the game is continuously moving towards.

And yet we are no nearer P2W now than we were then. You cannot point to a single item in the Crown Store or Crown Crates that is essential to buy or which conveys a gaming advantage to anyone who buys it. We're only now on the next step to P2W for those who thought B2P was the first step, and it turned out to be nothing of the sort. Nothing we've been told yet suggests that Crown Crates will be any more P2W than B2P has turned out to be.

This has been argued enough. Most people, even those strongly against this, don't believe that will happen. Most games I have played that started like eso and implemented these never went p2w. Most of those went f2p. The core of most people's arguments is that they are adopting f2p tactics of offering random boxes of items no one wants and mixing them with highly desirable cosmetics. People will spend thousands. Eso didn't come up with this idea, but they are following the market and have decided to take the low road.

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, I see most people have seen the article on MMORPG... nice of them to take information THERE, instead of telling it to us directly HERE in this now 74 page thread. So much for 'communication with players directly'.

First, I have to admit I was wrong, based on what they said before, it appeared that the only way to get certain items was based upon buying the lotto boxes... but now it appears you WILL be able to buy them with gems. However, I can only imagine that the cost for these 'rare items' will be such a huge amount in gems that will only promote further gambling.

Funny how he also mentions going to subscription optional... but then he skirts the issue of the reality that ZOS needs this type of thing to add additional revenue. He doesn't say it directly, but the fact he mentions going subscription optional tells me that this is SOLELY a financial decision and has nothing to do with 'adding something new and different'. Then he wonders why people don't trust anything that ZOS says. Go figure.

Further, he acts like people are buying all these consumables, but I'm betting the reality is different. I don't know many people who would buy these consumables when you can get MUCH better ones in-game for far cheaper- speaking of foods and potions, and even soul gems we receive in-game for free. So in effect, they're selling us items that will completely worthless to most people, other than XP Scrolls and Repair kits. Essentially then, these items will just sit in our inventory or we will destroy them, because we have no use for them. People won't buy these for the consumables, and Matt KNOWS this, they will only buy them for the rare items. I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Offering these rare and exclusive items behind a lottery paywall (gems), and not even offering them at higher regular Crown prices... THAT is the part that irks me the most.

That is their choice. No-one is forcing it upon them.

While I understand the point some are making about it being a problem for those with some form of clinical addiction disorder, and I sympathise with those players, I don't buy the argument some are making that ZOS are deliberately and cynically targeting the crates at such players. The reality is that ZOS know there are people who are disappointed to have missed out on time-limited items, and that the players would be up in arms if rare time-limited items were re-introduced into the Crown Store contrary to all previous indications, so they've come up with a different way of getting those items. Also, while it's reasonable to raise concerns about those players with addictive issues it isn't feasible to base game design decisions solely around them. Indeed, MMOs in principle have been raised many times including (unsuccessfully) in the courts as a major concern for those with addictive issues. Much of the argument against the random/gambling element of the crates is in any event mitigated by the ability to swap an item you already have with one you still want.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Tandor wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, I see most people have seen the article on MMORPG... nice of them to take information THERE, instead of telling it to us directly HERE in this now 74 page thread. So much for 'communication with players directly'.

First, I have to admit I was wrong, based on what they said before, it appeared that the only way to get certain items was based upon buying the lotto boxes... but now it appears you WILL be able to buy them with gems. However, I can only imagine that the cost for these 'rare items' will be such a huge amount in gems that will only promote further gambling.

Funny how he also mentions going to subscription optional... but then he skirts the issue of the reality that ZOS needs this type of thing to add additional revenue. He doesn't say it directly, but the fact he mentions going subscription optional tells me that this is SOLELY a financial decision and has nothing to do with 'adding something new and different'. Then he wonders why people don't trust anything that ZOS says. Go figure.

Further, he acts like people are buying all these consumables, but I'm betting the reality is different. I don't know many people who would buy these consumables when you can get MUCH better ones in-game for far cheaper- speaking of foods and potions, and even soul gems we receive in-game for free. So in effect, they're selling us items that will completely worthless to most people, other than XP Scrolls and Repair kits. Essentially then, these items will just sit in our inventory or we will destroy them, because we have no use for them. People won't buy these for the consumables, and Matt KNOWS this, they will only buy them for the rare items. I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Offering these rare and exclusive items behind a lottery paywall (gems), and not even offering them at higher regular Crown prices... THAT is the part that irks me the most.

That is their choice. No-one is forcing it upon them.

While I understand the point some are making about it being a problem for those with some form of clinical addiction disorder, and I sympathise with those players, I don't buy the argument some are making that ZOS are deliberately and cynically targeting the crates at such players. The reality is that ZOS know there are people who are disappointed to have missed out on time-limited items, and that the players would be up in arms if rare time-limited items were re-introduced into the Crown Store contrary to all previous indications, so they've come up with a different way of getting those items. Also, while it's reasonable to raise concerns about those players with addictive issues it isn't feasible to base game design decisions solely around them. Indeed, MMOs in principle have been raised many times including (unsuccessfully) in the courts as a major concern for those with addictive issues. Much of the argument against the random/gambling element of the crates is in any event mitigated by the ability to swap an item you already have with one you still want.

Why can't they just rotate stock back in? They have done research, this is a major cash cow. Stop defending ZOS they know exactly what they are doing, and its nothing new.

VerboseQuips

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what bothers me even more is this special offer I got from ZOS - to buy a bunch of stuff from the crown store and gift it to others. I would have a couple of friends, where I know they would enjoy to have one or the other item, but they would never be able to afford it due to where they live and because they have more pressing issue in real life, like paying for a proper education. Due to these boxes I do not want to give ZOS any more money - and so I cannot gift stuff to those friends as well. I have just 2250 crowns left - I might buy the masked bear today and then that was it basically for the buying part - no further enjoyment can come out of this for me - just because of these damned boxes - a game ruined for me and it will make me angry anytime I see something, what I would want, but I cannot buy it, because I do not want to give ZOS any more money.

And this will make me leave at some point in the future - because I will be reminded of this every time I will see something what I cannot have without to support ZOS - and I do not want to support them any longer, if they are that abusive.

The part I bolded, this is going to give incentive to hackers. They will now have a good reason to hack accounts and "gift" things to themselves or others. Sorry to be off topic, but that caught my attention and brought to mind all the hacking I saw in the other MMO I played.

Well this would be something what the support staff would have to do "by hand" basically, that is not something auitomated.

They basically told me, that if I would want to gift crown store items to other players, for example equip all guildies with the same costume, I should just tell them what I want and to whom it should be gifted - and make a list for all that and they would then consider what special offer they can make me for that - and manage the transfers, if I decide to accept that offer.

That sounds to me like they have to do that "by hand".

Edit: this is the text of the offer:

Hi Lys,

We appreciate the time and effort you've put into The Elder Scrolls Online, and as such we'd like to give you a special deal on items in the Crown Store.

For a short period, we can enable gift purchases for your friends or guildmates, allowing you to equip or outfit your fellow adventurers with any of the items currently available in the Crown Store. Would you like to outfit your entire guild with the same costume or colors? Or perhaps you'd like to make sure your teammates have the potions required to tackle a tough dungeon or Trial? Just ask!

To take advantage of this, simply respond to this email and let us know what items you are interested in. We'll respond with some tailor-made deals just for you.

I just recieved the same exact mail, but I find it puzzling. Are we sure it comes from ESO? Is it legitimate? It really looks like a traditional Elder Scrolls Online advertising in its presentation, but the email address that sent it to me does not seem to belong to ESO.

@Lysette , could you please check the email address that sent it: does it belong to ESO in your case? It might be a scam, and if this is the case, I guess we should tell it to ZOS as soon as possible. Does @ZOS_GinaBruno know whether those kind of special offers are real and legitimate, or whether it is fake and malevolent?

If it does come from ESO, then sorry for the annoyance, but I think it's better to be a bit careful.

Tandor

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

JimT722 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, I see most people have seen the article on MMORPG... nice of them to take information THERE, instead of telling it to us directly HERE in this now 74 page thread. So much for 'communication with players directly'.

First, I have to admit I was wrong, based on what they said before, it appeared that the only way to get certain items was based upon buying the lotto boxes... but now it appears you WILL be able to buy them with gems. However, I can only imagine that the cost for these 'rare items' will be such a huge amount in gems that will only promote further gambling.

Funny how he also mentions going to subscription optional... but then he skirts the issue of the reality that ZOS needs this type of thing to add additional revenue. He doesn't say it directly, but the fact he mentions going subscription optional tells me that this is SOLELY a financial decision and has nothing to do with 'adding something new and different'. Then he wonders why people don't trust anything that ZOS says. Go figure.

Further, he acts like people are buying all these consumables, but I'm betting the reality is different. I don't know many people who would buy these consumables when you can get MUCH better ones in-game for far cheaper- speaking of foods and potions, and even soul gems we receive in-game for free. So in effect, they're selling us items that will completely worthless to most people, other than XP Scrolls and Repair kits. Essentially then, these items will just sit in our inventory or we will destroy them, because we have no use for them. People won't buy these for the consumables, and Matt KNOWS this, they will only buy them for the rare items. I think this whole thing stinks to high heaven. Offering these rare and exclusive items behind a lottery paywall (gems), and not even offering them at higher regular Crown prices... THAT is the part that irks me the most.

That is their choice. No-one is forcing it upon them.

While I understand the point some are making about it being a problem for those with some form of clinical addiction disorder, and I sympathise with those players, I don't buy the argument some are making that ZOS are deliberately and cynically targeting the crates at such players. The reality is that ZOS know there are people who are disappointed to have missed out on time-limited items, and that the players would be up in arms if rare time-limited items were re-introduced into the Crown Store contrary to all previous indications, so they've come up with a different way of getting those items. Also, while it's reasonable to raise concerns about those players with addictive issues it isn't feasible to base game design decisions solely around them. Indeed, MMOs in principle have been raised many times including (unsuccessfully) in the courts as a major concern for those with addictive issues. Much of the argument against the random/gambling element of the crates is in any event mitigated by the ability to swap an item you already have with one you still want.

Why can't they just rotate stock back in? They have done research, this is a major cash cow. Stop defending ZOS they know exactly what they are doing, and its nothing new.

I'm neither disagreeing with the idea that they know what they're doing or that it's nothing new, nor defending them. I'd personally be happy with a sub-only ESO that didn't have a cash shop and which wasn't introducing lockboxes. However, I am of the view that the arguments against lockboxes are greatly over-stated and are for most players covered by the option at no cost in competitiveness to ignore them.

Rotating stock would be fine if they had announced that at the time the items were first issued.

The problem with this forum is that people just want to complain the whole time. Issue time-restricted items and people complain that they missed out. Re-issue them by rotation and people complain they were misled. Re-introduce them as random items in lockboxes and people complain about gambling. Come up with any idea for raising the revenue needed for the ongoing development of the game and people complain that it's an immoral cash grab. While I don't defend ZOS on all things, including lockboxes, I do realise that they can never win so far as this forum is concerned!

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I don't understand how Zos can have a crown price for items and a crown crate gem price for the same item, knowing full well that people may have spent several times the original crown price for the equivalent gems(if that makes sense?). It's just rude.

Zos obviously has very little respect for the players of Eso to be pulling this crap.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

ADarklore wrote: »

There were some MAJOR announcements in there. First and foremost, One Tamriel is primarily being introduced to attract NEW players.

This was hardly a revelation. It was pretty clear at E3 that this would benefit new players more than existing players. I have friends who played ESO for a while and dropped it because it was just too hard to play together as a group. One leveled up in the wrong faction, and I actually don't have any characters at the right level in the right faction, myself. They are looking upon One Tamriel with interest. Will they add ESO to the list of games they play after One Tamriel? I am thinking they won't, but who knows.

wayfarerx wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

With these gambling boxes I can't in good conscience recommend this game anymore.

With the gambling boxes I'm embarrassed to recommend this game anymore. I was thinking about gifting a couple gold editions to IRL friends that never really got into the game. Now I would just feel like a drug dealer offering the first hit for free

If the people you are gifting it to are attracted by such things, I could see this as a problem. Otherwise, I really don't see a problem. I expect that a multitude of players will completely ignore the Crates. I know my friends would. Like the Crown Consumables, I will forget they even exist.

I am more concerned about the lack of action on Cheating, the "this is hard stuff" fix for gap closers, and the "Cyrodiil lag? what Cyrodiil lag?" response to performance.

That is why I don't recommend ESO to my friends and why I have not mentioned Gold Edition to them. Not Crown Crates.

Tandor wrote: »

And yet we are no nearer P2W now than we were then. You cannot point to a single item in the Crown Store or Crown Crates that is essential to buy or which conveys a gaming advantage to anyone who buys it. We're only now on the next step to P2W for those who thought B2P was the first step, and it turned out to be nothing of the sort. Nothing we've been told yet suggests that Crown Crates will be any more P2W than B2P has turned out to be.

You can say that today. @ZOS_KaiSchober can say that today. Personally, I believe they are not heading for a P2W stance, but should I believe it? Around 18 months ago, @ZOS_GinaBruno said there were "no plans" for locked RNG boxes as a response to a direct query. Today, we are talking about a close spiritual cousin to "locked RNG boxes" being a reality in the game. Still not P2W, I will agree, and that is why I say "Yes" to these boxes, but one does have to pause for a moment about other statements they have made. What other "no plans" things are they working on next? How many times will Firor repeat that they are not changing the philosophy of the Crown Store before they decide to change the philosophy of the Crown Store? Maybe they will never change it. Until this week, I really had no reason to doubt him. Except for the RNG boxes, the Crown Store has unfolded pretty much as described. Now, I just wonder.

Oddly enough... It is hard to get them to say what they have planned for the game. We actually have a better idea about what they don't have planned for the game. At least, we used to.

Dromede

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

catsgomeow wrote: »

The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.

I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.

Right now, yeah, that is true, and why I say "Yes, I like the idea so long as they only have cosmetic (or Store convenience)". If the saner minds inside ZOS can hold the line against those inside ZOS who would like P2W, then there is ultimately nothing wrong with these boxes, from a P2W perspective.

However, no one can deny that ZOS changes plans against what they may have stated in the past. While I am not saying they are lying, or breaking promises, and while I accept that they mean it when they say it, the fact of the matter is that they act against some of these statements. Fair enough, as changes in business can result in changes in plans.

As @ZOS_KaiSchober said, they can nitpick the answers and parse each word to stay in the letter of what they say, but I judge them on the spirit of what they say, not the letter. When they say "no locked RNG boxes", the word "locked" is irrelevant to the spirit of the statement. If they had stated last year that they would introduce "locked RNG boxes", I would not be on here today complaining that they were not selling keys like they said they would.

I don't want to have to parse everything they say literally, in the search for semantic loopholes. What does "locked" mean? What exactly is RNG? Is a crate a box? What does "plans" mean?

So, Kai, if you are reading this, it no longer matters whether ZOS has kept to statements that the Crown Store would not sell certain items, like weapons and armor. ZOS said no locked RNG boxes, and I know you don't think that Crown Crates are locked RNG boxes, but they are locked. We just never get to see the key. It is a trivial loophole. ZOS has not gone back on the "no armor and weapons" but there are loopholes there, for the gifted nitpicker. The statement means nothing if the company cannot keep to other statements it has made.

Even if ZOS keeps to some, or most, statements, I cannot tell which ones are the ones that will be kept and which are the ones that will be discarded at first convenience.

I make purchasing decisions for a 180-day term of ESO Plus, and to do that, I need to know that ZOS intends to stick by what they say. I am really not interested in spending money on future game play when I cannot even tell what the game is going to be doing. I rely upon statements like "no locked RNG boxes" to make these decisions. If I cannot trust that these statements reflect a core principle of the Studio, then it is harder to make purchasing decisions.

While it might not matter to ZOS whether @lordrichter buys ESO Plus, as I am just one player, I tend to play games I pay for more than I play free games. It matters to me.

Well said! I as well subscribe for 6 months, and i bought a bunch of crown packs on last sale expecting to use them for housing items ( on top of grtting my eso+crowns that i already blew).

I bought them before the crates announcement, and even though it's just a couple hundred dollars, i feel a little cheated. I would not have done it if i knew about crates - my sub would have been managed monthly till November, when we get to see these crates in action. I would've still spent the money, but not nearly as much. Now it doesn't matter if i support crates or not - Zos already got my money, they wouldn't care if i have anything valuable to me to spend crowns on.

I like that Kai at least showed up in the thread - i know it caused an avalanche later, but there should be someone to do damage control, comfort players and show a different point of view.

Smart, well written answer can easily eliminate about half of the concerns mentioned in this thread - it's a mystery to me why noone showed up here to do that.

Gina, Jessica, i hope you do not feel personally attacked or insulted by your frequent mentions. I'm pretty sure most people understand your position and role in this ( 'i just work here' vs 'i make decisions'). Nevertheless, people need to hear something. Because right now a lot of us sound very conflicted on the matter.

Elara_Northwind

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I thought these boxes were a horrible idea, and WAS completely against them, but tonight I managed to steal some time away to do pledges with some guildies that I have not spoken to in a while, and they have changed my viewpoint on this considerably. Two of these guys are excited about these boxes! They believe the idea to be fun and are looking forward to it even, and the fourth guy said he does not care if they have them or not, seeing as they are an optional purchase...

My friends enthusiasm/uncaring attitude over the boxes has made me change my perspective from hating them, to not actually caring if they implement them or not. I wont buy them, limited edition mounts mean nothing to me, but the fact that some people are happy about it, to me, means that it is all ok, it doesn't affect my fun in any way

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

It's not going to be p2w. I have played many other games that have implemented the same thing that never went that route. It still is a negative direction to take the game in. These things were made popular in f2p games and probably mobile games. It is a cheap marketing ploy to get people to spend thousands (and they will) in order to get what they want. Matt argues that even so they contain consumables, xp potions, and other things on the store. However, these items are of little value to the player base. It's the extremely rare or past cosmetics that are what players are after.

These random boxes do not belong in a title such as this. They needed to show a little more integrity and continue with transparent business transactions, not f2p marketing schemes.

Yup.

Firor's answer to the people who don't get what they are looking for in the bag is to collect Gems, then buy it directly in the Gem Store. That really speaks to what they are trying to accomplish. They want people to play Lucky Bag so they will earn Gems. To drive people to collect Gems, the really good stuff will be in the Lucky Bags.

Just like the national lottery the 'good stuff' is when you win, otherwise its a cash sink ^^

Plus also remember you only get gems 'IF' you get a rare or exclusive item you already have

Which confuses me. Who is this system for? Long term players probably started playing this mmo because it wasn't like f2p MMO's. They are likely the ones with the collectables and wouldn't ever consider buying these. The new players who might be open to these things likely don't have the collectables. It's like how can we rip off a f2p model and make it as useless as possible.

I would say this is aimed at new players and those who have not experienced these cash RNG box schemes before and also obviously 'whales', but that's just my opinion

As for collectables, they should all be available within the game, just from playing and doing special achieves, they should never be in a shop at all.

I duno about long term players, I've only been playing maybe 3 months and I came here because I left Blade and Soul due to them introducing cash shop RNG boxes, and came here due to the reason there was none here, and everything look fair with no hidden things you had to pay or gamble for.

-this is not for whales - those have everything already - ZOS has nothing in the crown store, what one could buy - I complained about that start of August already - I literally had to buy consumables (riding skills) and style parlor services to buy anything. Ok I upgraded the horses of my new characters to a really good degree, but otherwise there would be pretty much noithing, what I do not have already - and a real whale would have all and be bored - there is nothing in the shop and the boxes do not make that better, there is still nothing for a whale in those boxes.

These boxes are targeted at those, who cannot look through the scheme and go for "get something cheaper", while in fact the chance to get something cheaper is extremely low, whereas the chance that they will run out of money before they got anything else than consumables is very high. And it aims at those, who like to gamble or "have to" gamble in the case of addicts. Then the box exclusive items are targeted at collectors, who will have to either give up on having a complete collection or start to gamble, forever basically, because it is highly unlikely, that they will ever complete their collection, if they want that "extremely rare" item as well - this is meant to be so rare, that pretty much no one ever gets it. It is bait for the collectors.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

wayfarerx wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

With these gambling boxes I can't in good conscience recommend this game anymore.

With the gambling boxes I'm embarrassed to recommend this game anymore. I was thinking about gifting a couple gold editions to IRL friends that never really got into the game. Now I would just feel like a drug dealer offering the first hit for free

That was my idea as well, to gift gold editions to friends - but now this will not happen.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

It's not going to be p2w. I have played many other games that have implemented the same thing that never went that route. It still is a negative direction to take the game in. These things were made popular in f2p games and probably mobile games. It is a cheap marketing ploy to get people to spend thousands (and they will) in order to get what they want. Matt argues that even so they contain consumables, xp potions, and other things on the store. However, these items are of little value to the player base. It's the extremely rare or past cosmetics that are what players are after.

These random boxes do not belong in a title such as this. They needed to show a little more integrity and continue with transparent business transactions, not f2p marketing schemes.

Yup.

Firor's answer to the people who don't get what they are looking for in the bag is to collect Gems, then buy it directly in the Gem Store. That really speaks to what they are trying to accomplish. They want people to play Lucky Bag so they will earn Gems. To drive people to collect Gems, the really good stuff will be in the Lucky Bags.

Just like the national lottery the 'good stuff' is when you win, otherwise its a cash sink ^^

Plus also remember you only get gems 'IF' you get a rare or exclusive item you already have

Which confuses me. Who is this system for? Long term players probably started playing this mmo because it wasn't like f2p MMO's. They are likely the ones with the collectables and wouldn't ever consider buying these. The new players who might be open to these things likely don't have the collectables. It's like how can we rip off a f2p model and make it as useless as possible.

I would say this is aimed at new players and those who have not experienced these cash RNG box schemes before and also obviously 'whales', but that's just my opinion

As for collectables, they should all be available within the game, just from playing and doing special achieves, they should never be in a shop at all.

I duno about long term players, I've only been playing maybe 3 months and I came here because I left Blade and Soul due to them introducing cash shop RNG boxes, and came here due to the reason there was none here, and everything look fair with no hidden things you had to pay or gamble for.

-this is not for whales - those have everything already - ZOS has nothing in the crown store, what one could buy - I complained about that start of August already - I literally had to buy consumables (riding skills) and style parlor services to buy anything. Ok I upgraded the horses of my new characters to a really good degree, but otherwise there would be pretty much noithing, what I do not have already - and a real whale would have all and be bored - there is nothing in the shop and the boxes do not make that better, there is still nothing for a whale in those boxes.

These boxes are targeted at those, who cannot look through the scheme and go for "get something cheaper", while in fact the chance to get something cheaper is extremely low, whereas the chance that they will run out of money before they got anything else than consumables is very high. And it aims at those, who like to gamble or "have to" gamble in the case of addicts. Then the box exclusive items are targeted at collectors, who will have to either give up on having a complete collection or start to gamble, forever basically, because it is highly unlikely, that they will ever complete their collection, if they want that "extremely rare" item as well - this is meant to be so rare, that pretty much no one ever gets it. It is bait for the collectors.

Yeah, I do think they are for the whales. Yes, I realize that you could be one, so you might know better. Let me tell you why I think this.

These are designed for people with a large disposable income that can spend it on virtual items in the game. I think they will stock the Crates with seasonal items at low drop rates that will attract these people. The Gems are there because of the whales and it gives them something to collect in the Store while trying to get that rare drop. Many will bank Gems so they can just buy the rare item outright.


Really, this has Moby *** written all over it.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

SilentRaven1972 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what bothers me even more is this special offer I got from ZOS - to buy a bunch of stuff from the crown store and gift it to others. I would have a couple of friends, where I know they would enjoy to have one or the other item, but they would never be able to afford it due to where they live and because they have more pressing issue in real life, like paying for a proper education. Due to these boxes I do not want to give ZOS any more money - and so I cannot gift stuff to those friends as well. I have just 2250 crowns left - I might buy the masked bear today and then that was it basically for the buying part - no further enjoyment can come out of this for me - just because of these damned boxes - a game ruined for me and it will make me angry anytime I see something, what I would want, but I cannot buy it, because I do not want to give ZOS any more money.

And this will make me leave at some point in the future - because I will be reminded of this every time I will see something what I cannot have without to support ZOS - and I do not want to support them any longer, if they are that abusive.

The part I bolded, this is going to give incentive to hackers. They will now have a good reason to hack accounts and "gift" things to themselves or others. Sorry to be off topic, but that caught my attention and brought to mind all the hacking I saw in the other MMO I played.

Well this would be something what the support staff would have to do "by hand" basically, that is not something auitomated.

They basically told me, that if I would want to gift crown store items to other players, for example equip all guildies with the same costume, I should just tell them what I want and to whom it should be gifted - and make a list for all that and they would then consider what special offer they can make me for that - and manage the transfers, if I decide to accept that offer.

That sounds to me like they have to do that "by hand".

Edit: this is the text of the offer:

Hi Lys,

We appreciate the time and effort you've put into The Elder Scrolls Online, and as such we'd like to give you a special deal on items in the Crown Store.

For a short period, we can enable gift purchases for your friends or guildmates, allowing you to equip or outfit your fellow adventurers with any of the items currently available in the Crown Store. Would you like to outfit your entire guild with the same costume or colors? Or perhaps you'd like to make sure your teammates have the potions required to tackle a tough dungeon or Trial? Just ask!

To take advantage of this, simply respond to this email and let us know what items you are interested in. We'll respond with some tailor-made deals just for you.

I just recieved the same exact mail, but I find it puzzling. Are we sure it comes from ESO? Is it legitimate? It really looks like a traditional Elder Scrolls Online advertising in its presentation, but the email address that sent it to me does not seem to belong to ESO.

@Lysette , could you please check the email address that sent it: does it belong to ESO in your case? It might be a scam, and if this is the case, I guess we should tell it to ZOS as soon as possible. Does @ZOS_GinaBruno know whether those kind of special offers are real and legitimate, or whether it is fake and malevolent?

If it does come from ESO, then sorry for the annoyance, but I think it's better to be a bit careful.

The email came from "The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited Team <teso_help@mailmw.custhelp.com>" to my registered account email address.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

It's not going to be p2w. I have played many other games that have implemented the same thing that never went that route. It still is a negative direction to take the game in. These things were made popular in f2p games and probably mobile games. It is a cheap marketing ploy to get people to spend thousands (and they will) in order to get what they want. Matt argues that even so they contain consumables, xp potions, and other things on the store. However, these items are of little value to the player base. It's the extremely rare or past cosmetics that are what players are after.

These random boxes do not belong in a title such as this. They needed to show a little more integrity and continue with transparent business transactions, not f2p marketing schemes.

Yup.

Firor's answer to the people who don't get what they are looking for in the bag is to collect Gems, then buy it directly in the Gem Store. That really speaks to what they are trying to accomplish. They want people to play Lucky Bag so they will earn Gems. To drive people to collect Gems, the really good stuff will be in the Lucky Bags.

Just like the national lottery the 'good stuff' is when you win, otherwise its a cash sink ^^

Plus also remember you only get gems 'IF' you get a rare or exclusive item you already have

Which confuses me. Who is this system for? Long term players probably started playing this mmo because it wasn't like f2p MMO's. They are likely the ones with the collectables and wouldn't ever consider buying these. The new players who might be open to these things likely don't have the collectables. It's like how can we rip off a f2p model and make it as useless as possible.

I would say this is aimed at new players and those who have not experienced these cash RNG box schemes before and also obviously 'whales', but that's just my opinion

As for collectables, they should all be available within the game, just from playing and doing special achieves, they should never be in a shop at all.

I duno about long term players, I've only been playing maybe 3 months and I came here because I left Blade and Soul due to them introducing cash shop RNG boxes, and came here due to the reason there was none here, and everything look fair with no hidden things you had to pay or gamble for.

-this is not for whales - those have everything already - ZOS has nothing in the crown store, what one could buy - I complained about that start of August already - I literally had to buy consumables (riding skills) and style parlor services to buy anything. Ok I upgraded the horses of my new characters to a really good degree, but otherwise there would be pretty much noithing, what I do not have already - and a real whale would have all and be bored - there is nothing in the shop and the boxes do not make that better, there is still nothing for a whale in those boxes.

These boxes are targeted at those, who cannot look through the scheme and go for "get something cheaper", while in fact the chance to get something cheaper is extremely low, whereas the chance that they will run out of money before they got anything else than consumables is very high. And it aims at those, who like to gamble or "have to" gamble in the case of addicts. Then the box exclusive items are targeted at collectors, who will have to either give up on having a complete collection or start to gamble, forever basically, because it is highly unlikely, that they will ever complete their collection, if they want that "extremely rare" item as well - this is meant to be so rare, that pretty much no one ever gets it. It is bait for the collectors.

Yeah, I do think they are for the whales. Yes, I realize that you could be one, so you might know better. Let me tell you why I think this.

These are designed for people with a large disposable income that can spend it on virtual items in the game. I think they will stock the Crates with seasonal items at low drop rates that will attract these people. The Gems are there because of the whales and it gives them something to collect in the Store while trying to get that rare drop. Many will bank Gems so they can just buy the rare item outright.


Really, this has Moby *** written all over it.

Not like ZOS is doing that - low quality, no fixing if something is broken in a high priced item - that is not what a whale wants. IMO this is clearly targeted at those, who do not have a whole lot of money and think of "getting something cheaper" - those will buy those boxes - maybe not a whole lot per person, but there are enough of this kind out there, maybe they buy just 36 crates per year - but those are many players - this is a good revenue for ZOS.

They can make more with whales, certainly, but then they have to offer some nice stuff to them - people with money want quality and they are very picky when it comes to detail - what ZOS delivers is underwhelming and it got worse and worse - look at the Breton Hero, that is crap - a student in first semester could have done better than this - an amateur even. Stuff like this is not for whales, but for people with no taste who are not picky - people with a lot of spare money are extremely picky.

And ZOS is not saying this would be RNG boxes - they clearly say, you are buying a crate of consumables - it has a slight extra chance to get something else, but they will always have the excuse "we told you so, it is a crate of consumables, and if you expected to get something special by just buying a few crates, you are mistaken. We never said that, we said 'extremely rare'" - that is what ZOS can use later as an excuse, if a lot are complaining that not much came out of those boxes.