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What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be allowed to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 1:30PM1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
[media="
https://youtu.be/srwxJUXPHvE"]https://youtu.be/srwxJUXPHvE[/media]
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on August 25, 2016 1:37PM0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.0 -
snakester320✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.
It bothers me because i would like to be able to buy these old costumes and mounts ( im a costume *** for mmo characters) but i DO NOT want to gamble for them and this is what this is GAMBLING to make more revenue... charge me 4k crowns or whatever straight up and sure if its what i want then sure .. this is forcing ppl to gamble more and more and more to get something destiny did the same thing with there silver boxes for the taken armour its a ploy to get ppl to throw more money at ZOS nothing more!! clearly ZOS need revenue must be due to ppl leaving cancelling subs etc!! but buying these boxes is wrong and we can only vote with our wallet in the end because its going to happen..jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Edited by snakester320 on August 25, 2016 1:51PM5 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Money has no other purpose than to get what you want - if it cannot do that, why have it at all then?- It is a tool which is there to allow me, to do what comes to mind and have an exciting life. I have just this one life and I want to enjoy it - and anyone who is throwing a stone in my way and make it unpleasant - like these RNG boxes - will not find my goodwill for this - beside that those boxes are abusive and deceptive - that what is advertised is the most unlikely event to happen - Kai was there a bit more honest - it is basically buying random consumables - and the chance for more should be seen as an incentive at most. But that is not what people will do, they will not buy them for the consumables, but for the chance - and there is the problem.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 1:49PM1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticssnakester320 wrote: »
It bothers me because i would like to be able to buy these old costumes and mounts ( im a costume *** for mmo characters) but i DO NOT want to gamble for them and this is what this is GAMBLING to make more revenue... charge me 4k crowns or whatever straight up and sure if its what i want then sure .. this is forcing ppl to gamble more and more and more to get something destiny did the smae thing with there silver boxes for the taken armour its a ploy to get ppl to throw more money at ZOS nothing more!!jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
i refer you to the comment you commented on...0 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleThis thread is going in circles.2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on August 25, 2016 1:56PM5 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
That is certainly the case for collectors - they want to be able to complete their collections and they cannot do that with these RNG boxes in their way. The other issues are nevertheless there, those are parallel issues, which are all raised with these boxes. It is not just because you find one valid, that all the others would not be valid anymore - there are more than just one or two issues raised by it.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 1:59PM4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Money has no other purpose than to get what you want - if it cannot do that, why have it at all then?- It is a tool which is there to allow me, to do what comes to mind and have an exciting life. I have just this one life and I want to enjoy it - and anyone who is throwing a stone in my way and make it unpleasant - like these RNG boxes - will not find my goodwill for this - beside that those boxes are abusive and deceptive - that what is advertised is the most unlikely event to happen - Kai was there a bit more honest - it is basically buying random consumables - and the chance for more should be seen as an incentive at most. But that is not what people will do, they will not buy them for the consumables, but for the chance - and there is the problem.
for most people money is a means to an end for some it is an end in itself. either view is valid.
if people decided to buy random boxes to the exclusion of all else then there is a problem. how many people do you think are likely to do that?
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Money has no other purpose than to get what you want - if it cannot do that, why have it at all then?- It is a tool which is there to allow me, to do what comes to mind and have an exciting life. I have just this one life and I want to enjoy it - and anyone who is throwing a stone in my way and make it unpleasant - like these RNG boxes - will not find my goodwill for this - beside that those boxes are abusive and deceptive - that what is advertised is the most unlikely event to happen - Kai was there a bit more honest - it is basically buying random consumables - and the chance for more should be seen as an incentive at most. But that is not what people will do, they will not buy them for the consumables, but for the chance - and there is the problem.
for most people money is a means to an end for some it is an end in itself. either view is valid.
if people decided to buy random boxes to the exclusion of all else then there is a problem. how many people do you think are likely to do that?
to the exclusion of all else?- you mean obsessive behavior - this would be even a level higher - and to limit the problem to just obsessive behavior is trivializing it. It is far more diverse and there are problems on many levels, not just the obsessive one. The more problematic one is the entry level one - where people who are not into gambling at all, might be introduced to it and even fall for it by reasons which are originally not related to gambling - and there is the real problem which could actually effect a larger number of players.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 2:06PM1 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
personally for me it is more about the way ZoS is offering this service, they are sugar coating it as a way of 'helping' players obtain something they previously missed in the past, the whole design (and imo the way ZOS deliberately want it solely for pure profit) is ethically and morally wrong.
What is wrong with X item for Y price, purchase outright.
Seller names his price, buyer purchases, Seller gets exactly what he wants, Buyer gets exactly what he wants. no issues, nice and simple, win win for both parties.
This is how things have been exchanged all over the world for 1000's of years, its the proven fair trade method, everybody is happy.
Edited by elvenmad on August 25, 2016 2:14PM< PC - EU >7 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
You voted no, are you still against them?
All the potential issues you summed up have already been mentioned in this thread though, so I'd argue it is going in circles.
I personally think it's exceedingly lame to put RNG between the customer and your product, not just in this shop, but in any shop. I don't need to buy it, I don't know if I want the product inside. ZOS is free to do what they want. But if they're telling their loyal and spending customers 'We'd rather you gamble for our products, better for our wallets!', they get a 'Poop you too!' back from me. That's what this thread is, farts of disgruntledness.
If that's entitled, whatever. That word lost its force since it's used of everyone that has any critique of any monetization strategy or pricepoint in this industry.
Off-topic edit, but yesterday I discovered that even a full-priced, newly released singleplayer game has microtransactions. What is going on in the offices of all these big publishers.Edited by petraeus1 on August 25, 2016 2:09PM0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.personally for me it is more about the way ZoS is offering this service, they are sugar coating it as a way of 'helping' players obtain something they previously missed in the past, the whole design (and imo the way ZOS deliberately want it solely for pure profit) is ethically and morally wrong.
I'll give you that : Matt Firor is very talented at presenting things the worst possible way ! :-) He might be a good manager (don't know about that) but he's not the best talker in the crew ! Rich is much better already.
Too bad they can't have Todd Howard. If Howard had made such an annoucement, we'd all be there applausing. But Howard is too clever to get caught into marketing annoucement. He restricts himself to what makes people really excited : game design and development.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on August 25, 2016 2:14PM2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »personally for me it is more about the way ZoS is offering this service, they are sugar coating it as a way of 'helping' players obtain something they previously missed in the past, the whole design (and imo the way ZOS deliberately want it solely for pure profit) is ethically and morally wrong.
I'll give you that : Matt Firor is very talented at presenting things the worst possible way ! :-) He might be a good manager (don't know about that) but he's not the best talker in the crew ! Rich is much better already.
Too bad they can't have Todd Howard. If Howard had made such an annoucement, we'd all be there applausing. But Howard is too clever to get caught into marketing annoucement. He restricts himself to what makes people really excited : game design and development.
True, nevertheless their Fallout Shelter has micro-transactions built in - those lunch boxes, they are random crates as well - but ... the game offers you these boxes for free as well during normal game play - and it is free to play.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 2:21PM2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.You voted no, are you still against them?
All the potential issues you summed up have already been mentioned in this thread though, so I'd argue it is going in circles.
I'm still against them because I think the strategy is cheap and lacks class and elegance.
But that doesn't change the fact that I can easily counter this cheap strategy by simply not buying the crown crates. I didn't understand why I was such a big issue for so many, since everyone has the same power as I have to simply not buy.
Now I understand why : it's because people want the exclusive stuff. And the stuff they missed previously.
Now I get it. I think wanting that stuff so badly, up to the point where someone could stop enjoying the game just for not having them, is quite childish, but that's just my opinion.
But... frankly... can you blame ZOS for wanting to make money, even more money, even as much money as possible, when people want something sooo badlyyyy ???
2 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But... frankly... can you blame ZOS for wanting to make money, even more money, even as much money as possible, when people want something sooo badlyyyy ???
Nothing wrong with that at all, but there are right and wrong ways of going about it
And I will say again:
What is wrong with X item for Y price, purchase outright.
Seller names his price, buyer purchases, Seller gets exactly what he wants, Buyer gets exactly what he wants. no issues, nice and simple, win win for both parties.
This is how things have been exchanged all over the world for 1000's of years, its the proven fair trade method, everybody is happy.
Edited by elvenmad on August 25, 2016 2:27PM< PC - EU >3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »catsgomeow wrote: »The thing about rng boxes some people might not know about is the history of them throughout the mmorpg scene, they have followed the same path in almost every mmo that has introduced them without fail and i dont see why eso would be any different, they only start out cosmetic only, then its exclusive items then it gets into the realm of pay to win then outright pay to win.
I heard EXACTLY the same 18 months ago on the B2P (Tamriel Unlimited) annoucement : ESO was 100% doomed to become P2W before you know it. Yet 18 months later there's still not an ounce of P2W in ESO.
So sorry, but I don't buy it at all. Crown Crates are NOT compelled to make ESO P2W.
Right now, yeah, that is true, and why I say "Yes, I like the idea so long as they only have cosmetic (or Store convenience)". If the saner minds inside ZOS can hold the line against those inside ZOS who would like P2W, then there is ultimately nothing wrong with these boxes, from a P2W perspective.
However, no one can deny that ZOS changes plans against what they may have stated in the past. While I am not saying they are lying, or breaking promises, and while I accept that they mean it when they say it, the fact of the matter is that they act against some of these statements. Fair enough, as changes in business can result in changes in plans.
As @ZOS_KaiSchober said, they can nitpick the answers and parse each word to stay in the letter of what they say, but I judge them on the spirit of what they say, not the letter. When they say "no locked RNG boxes", the word "locked" is irrelevant to the spirit of the statement. If they had stated last year that they would introduce "locked RNG boxes", I would not be on here today complaining that they were not selling keys like they said they would.
I don't want to have to parse everything they say literally, in the search for semantic loopholes. What does "locked" mean? What exactly is RNG? Is a crate a box? What does "plans" mean?
So, Kai, if you are reading this, it no longer matters whether ZOS has kept to statements that the Crown Store would not sell certain items, like weapons and armor. ZOS said no locked RNG boxes, and I know you don't think that Crown Crates are locked RNG boxes, but they are locked. We just never get to see the key. It is a trivial loophole. ZOS has not gone back on the "no armor and weapons" but there are loopholes there, for the gifted nitpicker. The statement means nothing if the company cannot keep to other statements it has made.
Even if ZOS keeps to some, or most, statements, I cannot tell which ones are the ones that will be kept and which are the ones that will be discarded at first convenience.
I make purchasing decisions for a 180-day term of ESO Plus, and to do that, I need to know that ZOS intends to stick by what they say. I am really not interested in spending money on future game play when I cannot even tell what the game is going to be doing. I rely upon statements like "no locked RNG boxes" to make these decisions. If I cannot trust that these statements reflect a core principle of the Studio, then it is harder to make purchasing decisions.
While it might not matter to ZOS whether @lordrichter buys ESO Plus, as I am just one player, I tend to play games I pay for more than I play free games. It matters to me.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.To me it is the start to something what will really not be enjoyable - there are a lot of other methods games use to make the game pretty much unplayable without to buy from the crown store and even then it is not really a pleasant experience - example Archeage - it has some mechanics, which basically hinder you having fun in the game if you want more than just PvP. It can be much much worse than these RNG boxes, but that ZOS is even thinking of (and now actually) implementing those, is just a sign to me, that they might implement those even more annoying methods, which those games already have, where they got the RNG box idea from - ZOS is copying successful cash grabs, and why would they stop with RNG boxes, it could be much worse and it maybe will at some point in time.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 2:30PM2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Nothing wrong with that at all, but there are right and wrong ways of going about it
And I will say again:
What is wrong with X item for Y price, purchase outright.
There's nothing wrong with that, EXCEPT than RNG-system brings more money.
I'm not saying it's nice, fair, or anything, but that's the explanation.
But you seem to worry too much. There will be stuff exclusive to those boxes, but I'm confident there will ALSO be new stuff on sale the old regular, fixed price way.
0 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »You voted no, are you still against them?
All the potential issues you summed up have already been mentioned in this thread though, so I'd argue it is going in circles.
I'm still against them because I think the strategy is cheap and lacks class and elegance.
But that doesn't change the fact that I can easily counter this cheap strategy by simply not buying the crown crates. I didn't understand why I was such a big issue for so many, since everyone has the same power as I have to simply not buy.
Now I understand why : it's because people want the exclusive stuff. And the stuff they missed previously.
Now I get it. I think wanting that stuff so badly, up to the point where someone could stop enjoying the game just for not having them, is quite childish, but that's just my opinion.
But... frankly... can you blame ZOS for wanting to make money, even more money, even as much money as possible, when people want something sooo badlyyyy ???
Bar the gross generalization, is that so odd? People invested a lot in their characters, customizing them, working with the age old rules of fair barter - now ZOS is changing those rules. It's ZOS' right, and we are not forced to buy them (who would even bring that up as arguments, it's obvious), still makes sense that some people are annoyed. That's fairly natural, especially in the case of longstanding and muchspending customers (and they know that does not buy them the right to steer the marketing department), but hey, you unmasked the no-voters I guess.
So what is there to blame? You said it yourself, it's a cheap and not very classy way to cash in on people's wants. Think that's blame enough. They wanna make money, that's what's companies do. That a reason then to be alright with whatever they think is reasonable to put up for sale, even if it's not a necessary buy? I can vote with my wallet, but taking the conversation to the community and consider to what extent microtransactions are reasonable is fruitful, even if ZOS does not change course.3 -
The_Undefined✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.It is clear that these are coming in, however, it would still be nice to see some kind of x both in x hours limits in place to stop people getting addicted to the gambling. One box a day would be a fair solution in my option. It would allow people to try and win some goodies but also not get carried away. If we can have it for crafting and for horse levelling then we could have it for this.
This - it would solve the problem for me - and nothing should be exclusive to those RNG boxes as well. If these 2 things would be implemented, I would be ok with these boxes - 1 box per day and ACCOUNT - not per character.
I completely agree with you. I wouldn't even be half as frustrated if ZOS wasn't parading around that they care about player feedback during these press conventions or in their posts. It's especially frustrating to read it with all of this One Tamriel stuff. There are so many huge decisions that they're making in favor of themselves without ANY COMPROMISE.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
This is an excellent point (minus the trash part
You shouldn't have too much of a problem accruing the Crown Gems needed to get the new mounts then, assuming they'll be available in that manner. Non-whales who don't buy everything will have a much tougher time getting them and will end up filling their collection with all sorts of trash along the way.nimander99 wrote: »I've purchased every cosmetic offered in the Crown Store, every - single - one.
). If you own the majority of collectibles already, then you'll gain Gems a lot more frequently, and can then purchase another collectible of your choice from the current Crown Crate season.
The Crown Gems ARE NOT A COMPROMISE people. That message that Gina posted was such slap in the face to players an incriminating comment to the business model of these lootboxes. She basically said supported the idea that the best way to get what you want is to buy a ton of things that you DON'T want. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
Seriously, this is not ok.
[EDITED: Be more clear and less bashing]Edited by The_Undefined on August 25, 2016 3:38PM9 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.The_Undefined wrote: »It is clear that these are coming in, however, it would still be nice to see some kind of x both in x hours limits in place to stop people getting addicted to the gambling. One box a day would be a fair solution in my option. It would allow people to try and win some goodies but also not get carried away. If we can have it for crafting and for horse levelling then we could have it for this.
This - it would solve the problem for me - and nothing should be exclusive to those RNG boxes as well. If these 2 things would be implemented, I would be ok with these boxes - 1 box per day and ACCOUNT - not per character.
I completely agree with you. I wouldn't even be half as frustrated if ZOS wasn't parading around that they care about player feedback during these press conventions or in their posts. It's especially frustrating to read it with all of this One Tamriel stuff. There are so many huge decisions that they're making in favor of themselves without ANY COMPROMISE.
The Crown Gems ARE NOT A COMPROMISE people. That message that Gina posted was such a slap in the face to players. She basically said that the best way to get what you want is to buy a ton of things that you DON'T want. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
Seriously, this is not ok.
yes that is another side effect of the box system - it will fill up your collection tab (given that you buy lots and lots of those crates) with all those items, which you did not want so far. You basically pay for them, just now even more than those costed before. That you did not want them in the first place, does not matter - you will get them anyway - and before you have plenty of them, there is not really a reasonable chance to get what you want.Edited by Lysette on August 25, 2016 2:49PM4 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsjedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Money has no other purpose than to get what you want - if it cannot do that, why have it at all then?- It is a tool which is there to allow me, to do what comes to mind and have an exciting life. I have just this one life and I want to enjoy it - and anyone who is throwing a stone in my way and make it unpleasant - like these RNG boxes - will not find my goodwill for this - beside that those boxes are abusive and deceptive - that what is advertised is the most unlikely event to happen - Kai was there a bit more honest - it is basically buying random consumables - and the chance for more should be seen as an incentive at most. But that is not what people will do, they will not buy them for the consumables, but for the chance - and there is the problem.
for most people money is a means to an end for some it is an end in itself. either view is valid.
if people decided to buy random boxes to the exclusion of all else then there is a problem. how many people do you think are likely to do that?
to the exclusion of all else?- you mean obsessive behavior - this would be even a level higher - and to limit the problem to just obsessive behavior is trivializing it. It is far more diverse and there are problems on many levels, not just the obsessive one. The more problematic one is the entry level one - where people who are not into gambling at all, might be introduced to it and even fall for it by reasons which are originally not related to gambling - and there is the real problem which could actually effect a larger number of players.
that argument was raised in the uk when the national lottery was originally introduced. there is no evidence that it provided an 'entry level' to gambling.0 -
The_Undefined✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.The_Undefined wrote: »It is clear that these are coming in, however, it would still be nice to see some kind of x both in x hours limits in place to stop people getting addicted to the gambling. One box a day would be a fair solution in my option. It would allow people to try and win some goodies but also not get carried away. If we can have it for crafting and for horse levelling then we could have it for this.
This - it would solve the problem for me - and nothing should be exclusive to those RNG boxes as well. If these 2 things would be implemented, I would be ok with these boxes - 1 box per day and ACCOUNT - not per character.
I completely agree with you. I wouldn't even be half as frustrated if ZOS wasn't parading around that they care about player feedback during these press conventions or in their posts. It's especially frustrating to read it with all of this One Tamriel stuff. There are so many huge decisions that they're making in favor of themselves without ANY COMPROMISE.
The Crown Gems ARE NOT A COMPROMISE people. That message that Gina posted was such a slap in the face to players. She basically said that the best way to get what you want is to buy a ton of things that you DON'T want. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
Seriously, this is not ok.
yes that is another side effect of the box system - it will fill up your collection tab (given that you buy lots and lots of those crates) with all those items, which you did not want so far. You basically pay for them, just now even more than those costed before. That you did not want them in the first place, does not matter - you will get them anyway - and before you have plenty of them, there is not really a reasonable chance to get what you want.
Right, this takes so much power from the player IF THEY WANT AN ITEM FROM THE LOOTBOX. Think about all the items in the Crown Store that you voted wasn't quality by not buying it. Well, now you're buying it. Sure, the chance is it will drop to your inventory, but you pay crowns and you get the item. That's pretty unfair. They should absolutely allow players to cash in items they don't want for Crown Gems, NOT DUPLICATE.
[EDIT] I really don't know. There are so many small fixes that could make this system more appealing to players. Lootboxes will never be in the favor of the customer, EVER. Still, it could be so easy for them to appease their loyal PAYING fanbase with minor fixes that wouldn't hurt them at all and in fact possibly produce more profits for them by winning over those on the fence with a purchase here and there.Edited by The_Undefined on August 25, 2016 3:28PM3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I feel like something the people that voted "yes" don't understand, is that they might add items only available in the lock boxes and nowhere else.
So what ? As long as it's only cosmetics, anyone can live happily without it.
I don't understand this compulsive need to "have something".
You do realize that for some people, myself included, cosmetics are important, yes?
Important, yes. Doesn't mean you MUST have EVERYTHING and are helplessly FORCED to buy whatever ZOS puts in the game or in the store with whatever sales mechanism attached to it.
When a child looks at something in a store and WANTS it, it's the most important thing on earth in his opinion at that particular moment. Still, if his parents decide to not buy it, he'll have to deal with it.
Sometimes you can't get what you want.
You have every right to be p*ssed at ZOS but that doesn't change the fact that you don't HAVE to buy those boxes.
but it does seem that everyone opposed to the idea feels that they will be 'compelled' to buy them. i'm really not sure how, but hey....
I think it is more that one is used to that you can buy things you want in real life - well, with a few exceptions that is - to be able to buy the Enzo Ferrari or to own the black amexco is invitation only - but otherwise you can pretty much buy all you want. These crates put a stop to that and this is frustrating for those used to that they get what they want for their money straight away.
the key to contentment and, indeed, happiness is not having more....
I know that having more stuff and more money is not making any more happy - but to have money and not be able to buy something with it, what you want, is extremely annoying and does certainly not contribute to happiness, but in the contrary. Already to have to wait for something can be extremely annoying - I like the Ferarri F430 spider for example, but I would have to wait for 18 months to get one - well, screw them, I am not willing to wait that long, as sexy as this car looks, I do not want to wait for it. And those boxes give a similar unpleasant experience - especially with items, which are exclusive to them.
as long as you continue to focus on them the more dissatisfied you will be......
i used to get paid to give advice like this.
Money has no other purpose than to get what you want - if it cannot do that, why have it at all then?- It is a tool which is there to allow me, to do what comes to mind and have an exciting life. I have just this one life and I want to enjoy it - and anyone who is throwing a stone in my way and make it unpleasant - like these RNG boxes - will not find my goodwill for this - beside that those boxes are abusive and deceptive - that what is advertised is the most unlikely event to happen - Kai was there a bit more honest - it is basically buying random consumables - and the chance for more should be seen as an incentive at most. But that is not what people will do, they will not buy them for the consumables, but for the chance - and there is the problem.
for most people money is a means to an end for some it is an end in itself. either view is valid.
if people decided to buy random boxes to the exclusion of all else then there is a problem. how many people do you think are likely to do that?
to the exclusion of all else?- you mean obsessive behavior - this would be even a level higher - and to limit the problem to just obsessive behavior is trivializing it. It is far more diverse and there are problems on many levels, not just the obsessive one. The more problematic one is the entry level one - where people who are not into gambling at all, might be introduced to it and even fall for it by reasons which are originally not related to gambling - and there is the real problem which could actually effect a larger number of players.
that argument was raised in the uk when the national lottery was originally introduced. there is no evidence that it provided an 'entry level' to gambling.
Did the national lottery provide any "exclusive" stuff, which you could not get in any other way?- I guess not, so it is not comparable.1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
You voted no, are you still against them?
All the potential issues you summed up have already been mentioned in this thread though, so I'd argue it is going in circles.
I personally think it's exceedingly lame to put RNG between the customer and your product, not just in this shop, but in any shop. I don't need to buy it, I don't know if I want the product inside. ZOS is free to do what they want. But if they're telling their loyal and spending customers 'We'd rather you gamble for our products, better for our wallets!', they get a 'Poop you too!' back from me. That's what this thread is, farts of disgruntledness.
If that's entitled, whatever. That word lost its force since it's used of everyone that has any critique of any monetization strategy or pricepoint in this industry.
Off-topic edit, but yesterday I discovered that even a full-priced, newly released singleplayer game has microtransactions. What is going on in the offices of all these big publishers.
in response to the last bit..... could it be that they are all businesses trying to make money in an increasingly competitive market?0 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamblejedtb16_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »This thread is going in circles.
Rather the opposite.
I begin to understand what the real problem is for people who are radically against those boxes.
It's not that ZOS is greedy
It's not that they don't have the money
It's not that they really care about potentially ICD-vulnerable players
It's not that cannot resist buying boxes.
It is, plain and simple, that they want the gear that will be exclusive to those boxes. And they feel entitled to buy it under different conditions than what ZOS is offering.
I like it when issues are expressed in true terms.
You voted no, are you still against them?
All the potential issues you summed up have already been mentioned in this thread though, so I'd argue it is going in circles.
I personally think it's exceedingly lame to put RNG between the customer and your product, not just in this shop, but in any shop. I don't need to buy it, I don't know if I want the product inside. ZOS is free to do what they want. But if they're telling their loyal and spending customers 'We'd rather you gamble for our products, better for our wallets!', they get a 'Poop you too!' back from me. That's what this thread is, farts of disgruntledness.
If that's entitled, whatever. That word lost its force since it's used of everyone that has any critique of any monetization strategy or pricepoint in this industry.
Off-topic edit, but yesterday I discovered that even a full-priced, newly released singleplayer game has microtransactions. What is going on in the offices of all these big publishers.
in response to the last bit..... could it be that they are all businesses trying to make money in an increasingly competitive market?
They undoubtedly are, but if AAA singleplayer games (no servers apart from their DRM) who sell thousands of copies at 60$ need microtransactions to make a profit, they're doing something wrong. The market may be increasingly competitive, it's also increasingly large in terms of amounts of customers.
I am not buying it when multi million companies adopt monetization strategies designed in the free-to-play market for their 60$ games 'because they need to make money'. It becomes even more irky at the moment design decisions become suspect of possibly being influenced by the decision to add microtransactions.5
This discussion has been closed.