What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

Yes we have seen them. They have been in other games, just the name is different. They aren't random because they are fun.

Holycannoli

Lysette wrote: »

It's pretty clear what will be mostly in those boxes - all these "retired" items we have seen since months - now it is as well clear, why they retired stuff, which just entered the crown store. This was planned for a longer time to come and that is why they cleared out the crown shop, while telling us, they would have to make room in the crown store - yes, but for the boxes. Most of that stuff you will find in future in some kind of box, where they can hide the actual price of the product and raise it to heights, which no one would be willing to pay, if they would know about it - this is what makes it so utterly disgusting.

Damn it you're right, and I'm even more disgusted now than I was before.

This is a cash grab at its dirtiest.

What's even more disgusting is knowing that people will be buying these boxes anyway.

Someone high up the ladder is pressuring the crap out of ZOS to increase revenue, and by a lot. There is no other explanation. They're willing to anger and alienate a significant portion of their playerbase to milk the whales. That means money is being prioritized over game integrity, which means someone high up who doesn't give a damn about the game itself wants more money. I don't know if it's an investor or CFO or whoever but ZOS is being ordered increase revenue at just about any cost, it's obvious.

Not that that changes my perception. Screw the investors, I'm here for the game not for them to make money.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

JimT722 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

Yes we have seen them. They have been in other games, just the name is different. They aren't random because they are fun.

so... just more speculation.

Genomic

If someone had told me a year ago that ZOS would eventually introduce gambling boxes like the trash MMOs do, there's no way I would have believed them. This is a real low point for ESO.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

Yes, it is a game to them.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Legoless wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I've purchased every cosmetic offered in the Crown Store, every - single - one.

You shouldn't have too much of a problem accruing the Crown Gems needed to get the new mounts then, assuming they'll be available in that manner. Non-whales who don't buy everything will have a much tougher time getting them and will end up filling their collection with all sorts of trash along the way.

This is an excellent point (minus the trash part ). If you own the majority of collectibles already, then you'll gain Gems a lot more frequently, and can then purchase another collectible of your choice from the current Crown Crate season.

Collecting Gems is what players are supposed to be doing when there is nothing new in the Crates.

It wouldn't be so bad if unwanted items that are not repeated could be made into Gems too. I mean, someone who passed on a Hero Costume because they found it really badly made surely would want to receive the equivalent to 2000 Crowns on Crown gems instead of the costume.

But that is not what they want with these boxes - they want to sell you any crap item they have made so far for more than 8000 crowns each or even more than that - but they do not tell you this, they wrap it into an opportunity - well they say it would be an opportunity, while in fact it is a trap - they know that people cannot calculate their chances and even less, if they do even have an idea what their chances really are - instead people think of these boxes as "getting something cheaper", while it is in reality "eventually getting something for much more money, if at all" - a sugar coated scam it is, nothing else.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

ZoS community manager's:

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

Yes we have seen them. They have been in other games, just the name is different. They aren't random because they are fun.

so... just more speculation.

No, pattern recognition. It's different, and far more predictable.

Slurg

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So here we are, 63 pages with almost 1000 players voting, and still 66% of players are saying NO! And still NO WORD from ZOS on the subject at all. I think this speaks volumes about how much they actually LISTEN to their players.

Lmao. Are you kidding me??? The stickied thread at the top of the forum created by ZOS about cheating show they do not listen. That is game breaking this is not. They are not going to respond to this. Just announce when it goes live.

just because they don't respond does not mean they aren't listening...

Dont mean their pulling full stop either.

This idea was brought up looking at other video games, the marketing/finance department decided to go for it, and they sure ain't pulling back because a couple a hundred people are throwing a fuss here. They'll look at the numbers once these boxes hit live.

So I mean what can the devs say? You know how it goes, everything any employee says will be held against him/her at some point.

Expecting a response, let alone an apologetic one or one that goes against company direction is not realistic and getting worked up over it won't change that.

They know a lot of people really dislike it, the controversy of this decision is widespread on the forums, reddit, social media and press websites, and that's that.

Yep.

If we get a response it'll be them shuting this thread down and damage control. When they look at the numbers when it goes live, one of two things will happen.

A, we will get a heartfelt apology (And I really doubt it.) and it'll be taken down.

B. They will figure out how to sell boxes.

The first is much more likely after a sufficient ammount of time and effort is spent on the second with no results. Best way to fight this is to choke it with both hands.

Option C: (my best guess)
"We heard your concerns about being forced to gamble for a chance at winning the Great Purple Unicorn That Walks On Air. That's why, for a limited time only, you can buy this exclusive item directly in the Crown Store for 40,000 crowns! Hurry, supplies are limited to the first 1,000 customers!"

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

This is how it works - you will just get gems, if you have that item already in your collection - if not, that item is added to your collection, if you want it or not - you do not have the ability to exchange an unwanted item with a wanted one. They said this and I just put that into the metaphor offered in the post I replied to.

If people expect to get the wanted item in the case they win, they are mistaken - it will be a random item of those offered in those boxes - and if you do not have it already, that will be your win. No way to say, "no I do not want this, I want something else" - the answer ZOS is giving to that is "you got an item, you did not have it yet, so this is your win now. If you want to win something else, well here are the boxes, buy a couple more of those"

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

lets not forget look at there current prices for things imo there a rip off but whatever .. you think these BOXES are going to be 75crowns bullsh.t..... i would not be suprised if there 500 crowns each so take the flaming horse or the dread cow wolf was 2500 crowns you really think the boxes are a 1/5 chance of getting that mount YEAH RIGHT!! the the black and blue panther 4000 crowns there going to give that to you for less than the actual cost in the first place... KEEP DREAMING why would the screw there own market ( bring back the mount sell it for 4000 crowns money made!! )

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

I'm not speculating They've said the boxes will be 400 crowns...

Have I done something to upset you? If so, I apologise! I'm simply weighing out my options and I didn't want to leave friends I have made. I changed my mind, which I'm entitled to do. As is everyone else. We all have our reasons for being here

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

This is how it works - you will just get gems, if you have that item already in your collection - if not, that item is added to your collection, if you want it or not - you do not have the ability to exchange an unwanted item with a wanted one. They said this and I just put that into the metaphor offered in the post I replied to.

If people expect to get the wanted item in the case they win, they are mistaken - it will be a random item of those offered in those boxes - and if you do not have it already, that will be your win. No way to say, "no I do not want this, I want something else" - the answer ZOS is giving to that is "you got an item, you did not have it yet, so this is your win now. If you want to win something else, well here are the boxes, buy a couple more of those"

no. i was commenting on the bit where you said 'The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor' the bolding and italics are mine for emphasis....

you state definitively that the boxes are even worse - suggesting that you have seen them..... my question stands -

have you seen them or are you just speculating?

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Buffler wrote: »

This thread is insane

The entire idea of going back on the no lockboxes thing was insane. In that context, this thread is entirely rational, and salivating for human flesh... or something.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'm hanging around because its like watching a slow motion train wreck...............I just can't look away

But already started playing Rift again, just for now, and yes I know its P2W, clear and blatant P2W but one thing, you do get what you pay for, no 'chance' to get and no gamble.

wayfarerx

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

This is how it works - you will just get gems, if you have that item already in your collection - if not, that item is added to your collection, if you want it or not - you do not have the ability to exchange an unwanted item with a wanted one. They said this and I just put that into the metaphor offered in the post I replied to.

If people expect to get the wanted item in the case they win, they are mistaken - it will be a random item of those offered in those boxes - and if you do not have it already, that will be your win. No way to say, "no I do not want this, I want something else" - the answer ZOS is giving to that is "you got an item, you did not have it yet, so this is your win now. If you want to win something else, well here are the boxes, buy a couple more of those"

no. i was commenting on the bit where you said 'The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor' the bolding and italics are mine for emphasis....

you state definitively that the boxes are even worse - suggesting that you have seen them..... my question stands -

have you seen them or are you just speculating?

No one has seen the boxes, so everyone is speculating, including you. The entire point of the thread is to speculate and render opinions based on what we know and what we think we can expect. Saying "you're just speculating" over and over again adds absolutely nothing to the conversation. You might as well just respond to every post with "You typed text in that post!" and it would be just as valuable to the overall discussion.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

hagermanj wrote: »

I might get this Reply removed, but so be it. I guess most of the people that say they don't line the Crown Boxes is that they are/worry about gambling addicts ( from what I have read ), I understand that ( I am not a gambling addict, but have been told that I am an alcoholic, so I don't take a drink ). Anyway back to what I want to say: do you live in states ( in US ) on in countries that have lottery's ( also you are legal age ), if so, Do you buy excessive amount if lottery tickets. Probably not. So way are these so bad. If you don't like the idea then DON'T BUY THEM,

That's all I have to say. And the words of Mick Foley ( WWE former wrestler ): HAVE A GOOD DAY.

I don't buy excessive (or any) lottery tickets, however, I would be uncomfortable to be with people spending a lot of money that they often cannot afford, in the hope that they will win a life changing amount. Their life does change, but normally for the worse.

Regardless of potential issues people have with addiction, the major issue here is exploiting customer's wallets. People want x mount, they are happy to pay xxx crowns for said mount. No one is arguing over this. However, to make people have to buy random boxes and potentially spend xxxxxxx crowns for the mount is the issue. People want to buy specific items for a specific price. They can then budget for it. They do not want to be in a situation where they have no idea how much a mount will cost them, or even any idea if they will actually get it.

I go on itunes to buy a certain album for £10. I want that album so I buy it. I don't want to go to Itunes and give them £3 and there is a 1/1,000 chance I will get the album I want. I might save money but the maths says it is 999 times more likely I will not get what I am looking for.

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

so you've seen them..... or is that just more speculation?

This is how it works - you will just get gems, if you have that item already in your collection - if not, that item is added to your collection, if you want it or not - you do not have the ability to exchange an unwanted item with a wanted one. They said this and I just put that into the metaphor offered in the post I replied to.

If people expect to get the wanted item in the case they win, they are mistaken - it will be a random item of those offered in those boxes - and if you do not have it already, that will be your win. No way to say, "no I do not want this, I want something else" - the answer ZOS is giving to that is "you got an item, you did not have it yet, so this is your win now. If you want to win something else, well here are the boxes, buy a couple more of those"

no. i was commenting on the bit where you said 'The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor' the bolding and italics are mine for emphasis....

you state definitively that the boxes are even worse - suggesting that you have seen them..... my question stands -

have you seen them or are you just speculating?

This is a baiting reply, I will not go for this.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

have you seen them or are you just speculating?

I've seen lockboxes in MMOs, many times before. Could ESO be different, somehow? Yeah, sure, but it's not very likely.

BenevolentBowd

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I don't mind the cosmetic stuff in the store. However, as a crafter who can make all of his own consumables, adding the random mount to a consumable box is annoying. Perhaps, a mount only version?

On a related note, the amount of time some of these rare items are on the market seems to be getting unreasonably short. Some of these mounts are released during peak vacation or festive times and people are away spending time with family and don't find out about the mounts until the mounts are already gone..

Kendaric

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

No speculation there at all, the boxes are priced at 400 crowns.

Lockboxes are like cancer in MMMORPGs, slowly destroying every game they are introduced to. I was looking forward to One Tamriel, but now I, like many others, am currently re-evaluating my subscription due to their lockbox announcement.

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

People have spent thousands on these in other games. Not speculation. ZOS isn't going to make these any better.The only speculation is just how bad they will be. They will be rotating new themed items. Also not speculation. This is to give people something else to drain their money into.

This is a system of manipulation that is spreading throughout the gaming industry because it's very profitable. its not speculation that the game, or the industry, is worse with the inclusion of these gambling boxes.

If anyone thinks this is speculation, maybe do some research first.

Mx13

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Kendaric wrote: »

No speculation there at all, the boxes are priced at 400 crowns.

Lockboxes are like cancer in MMMORPGs, slowly destroying every game they are introduced to. I was looking forward to One Tamriel, but now I, like many others, am currently re-evaluating my subscription due to their lockbox announcement.

Cazzy wrote: »

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Maybe he is refering to this and not the price on the boxes?

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mx13 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

No speculation there at all, the boxes are priced at 400 crowns.

Lockboxes are like cancer in MMMORPGs, slowly destroying every game they are introduced to. I was looking forward to One Tamriel, but now I, like many others, am currently re-evaluating my subscription due to their lockbox announcement.

Cazzy wrote: »

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Maybe he is refering to this and not the price on the boxes?

Maybe... I don't know. I'll edit for clarification if it helps them understand though

The article itself said: These Crates, available in the Crown Store for just 400 crowns, will contain a randomized selection of useful consumables, and offer a chance to obtain rare and unique cosmetic items or mounts, including some previously-retired mounts, costumes, pets, and limited-time offers that are no longer available in the Crown Store.

So we know you will definitely get consumables but only a chance at everything else

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mx13 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

No speculation there at all, the boxes are priced at 400 crowns.

Lockboxes are like cancer in MMMORPGs, slowly destroying every game they are introduced to. I was looking forward to One Tamriel, but now I, like many others, am currently re-evaluating my subscription due to their lockbox announcement.

Cazzy wrote: »

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Maybe he is refering to this and not the price on the boxes?

That's not really speculation either. Wasn't the phrase Matt used something to the effect of, "sometimes you'll also get very rare dohickies from the boxes?"

cynaes

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Please seriously reconsider adding RNG boxes to the crown store.

Please note that I do not have anything against RNG boxes purely out of principle. I don't mind people spending money on stuff from the crown store. I don't mind people spending a lot of money on stuff from the crown store. Actually, I do understand that from a business perspective RNG boxes are - at least short to mid-term - a fantastic source of revenue. Even for people who do not suffer from a gambling addiction, they are an exciting experience. Even slim chances on limited mounts or other rare items will encourage players to buy these boxes. There is of course a sweet spot for rarity, but this sweet spot is at such a small percentage of getting rare items that you will sell lots and lots and lots of boxes. And people will be happy when they get rare stuff. They will be ecstatic. They will buy more boxes. Many more boxes. Everyone will be happy - for a while.

However, in the long-term, things will change. After a few months - maybe after a year - some business dude will look at the numbers. And he'll notice that you make loads and loads of money from the boxes. Because for every complaint on the forums, on reddit or Twitter, for every threat to quit ESO, for every swearword used, there will be several people who will buy boxes (and some of those people will be the people that complained the loudest). For every 5 boxes bought by players, you will have earned as much money as from selling the Dark Brotherhood DLC package. 5 boxes that will have used considerably less resources to put together. And people will not just buy 5 boxes every 3 months with the release of the a new DLC package.

Back to the business dude. The business dude will look at the numbers. And he will realize that selling boxes - from a business perspective - is smarter than selling new content. And he will go to the powers that be and tell them that you can increase revenue by selling more boxes. So development resources will be put into making new stuff for the boxes. Appealing stuff. If the business dude is a smart guy, he will also recommend you to increase rarity. Just a little bit. Tiny increases in rarity every now and then. Even more revenue for even less resources.

Remember the developement resources put into RNG boxes? They won't be available for making new content. But that doesn't matter. Because the loss of revenue from going down to 2 DLCs a year instead of 4 is easily made up for by RNG boxes. Actually, because 2 DLCs a year will be enough, and because making stuff for RNG boxes doesn't cost as many resources, you won't need as many developers. So revenue goes up again.

How about adding a little bit of RNG to the RNG boxes. Say, you have a 20% chance to find a new box, with it's own little RNG rewards. Like, getting previously exclusive stuff. We're pretty much in business dudes heaven right now. Only this is the point where you will have alienated your playerbase. Probably irreversibly alienated. To the business dude that doesn't matter much, because he's helped generate a humongous amount of revenue. Nobody can expect an online game to last forever. As long as revenue is enough to keep servers running, they will. But it will not be the same game.

Yes, this is not the most optimistic take on the future. No, I don't consider it to be the most pessimistic view either. Actually, it's pretty much what happened to SWTOR. And if you want to know what great new feature you can expect after a few years, have a look at this: http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-pack-opening-experience (they're happy to announce that opening RNG boxes now is a real experience).

This is why I seriously believe that adding RNG boxes is - in a way - deceiving players. Because even though right now it might be a decision made by the content developers, it has a very high chance of getting out of hand. In that regard, you could possibly say that the developers might deceive themselves, too, by adding RNG boxes.

I would be glad if maybe you @ZOS_GinaBruno could use the next ESO Live stream (not PAX) to explain why you feel you need to add RNG boxes. And I would be even more happy to be proven wrong in the long term.

tl;dr: RNG boxes will lead to the downfall of ESO. No, they won't. But matters are too complicated to put them in a single sentence. Read the whole text if you are seriously interested in the brave new world that awaits us.

P.S.: To offer more than just a bleak outlook on a possible future. If you want to use RNG boxes to bring back limited time offers, because you want to (understandably) generate revenue from them more often, why not add them back with a slight markup (this probably means that you will have to lower prices a bit in the first place, but if you find the sweet spot for that, this would allow you to regularly generate revenue from old assets). Old players will be happy because they bought them at a cheaper price. New players will be happy, because they get the chance to buy previously limited stuff at all. No RNG boxes needed at all.

Rosveen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

Yes, it is a game to them.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Legoless wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I've purchased every cosmetic offered in the Crown Store, every - single - one.

You shouldn't have too much of a problem accruing the Crown Gems needed to get the new mounts then, assuming they'll be available in that manner. Non-whales who don't buy everything will have a much tougher time getting them and will end up filling their collection with all sorts of trash along the way.

This is an excellent point (minus the trash part ). If you own the majority of collectibles already, then you'll gain Gems a lot more frequently, and can then purchase another collectible of your choice from the current Crown Crate season.

Collecting Gems is what players are supposed to be doing when there is nothing new in the Crates.

It wouldn't be so bad if unwanted items that are not repeated could be made into Gems too. I mean, someone who passed on a Hero Costume because they found it really badly made surely would want to receive the equivalent to 2000 Crowns on Crown gems instead of the costume.

Yeah. I'm not going to buy any Crown Crates because I'm mathematically literate, but even if I decided to try for a rare mount (say, the red wolf I've been waiting for - I'm sorry Abeille, but I'm hoping lockboxes will get the ice one instead if they must contain a wolf at all ), I'd just get trash along the way. I have relatively few crown store items, I buy them for specific characters and I don't need or want any others because they just don't fit my chars. If I could sell or exchange them, Crown Crates might at least have some value to me, but right now they don't.

LrdRahvin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

cynaes wrote: »

Please seriously reconsider adding RNG boxes to the crown store.

Please note that I do not have anything against RNG boxes purely out of principle. I don't mind people spending money on stuff from the crown store. I don't mind people spending a lot of money on stuff from the crown store. Actually, I do understand that from a business perspective RNG boxes are - at least short to mid-term - a fantastic source of revenue. Even for people who do not suffer from a gambling addiction, they are an exciting experience. Even slim chances on limited mounts or other rare items will encourage players to buy these boxes. There is of course a sweet spot for rarity, but this sweet spot is at such a small percentage of getting rare items that you will sell lots and lots and lots of boxes. And people will be happy when they get rare stuff. They will be ecstatic. They will buy more boxes. Many more boxes. Everyone will be happy - for a while.

However, in the long-term, things will change. After a few months - maybe after a year - some business dude will look at the numbers. And he'll notice that you make loads and loads of money from the boxes. Because for every complaint on the forums, on reddit or Twitter, for every threat to quit ESO, for every swearword used, there will be several people who will buy boxes (and some of those people will be the people that complained the loudest). For every 5 boxes bought by players, you will have earned as much money as from selling the Dark Brotherhood DLC package. 5 boxes that will have used considerably less resources to put together. And people will not just buy 5 boxes every 3 months with the release of the a new DLC package.

Back to the business dude. The business dude will look at the numbers. And he will realize that selling boxes - from a business perspective - is smarter than selling new content. And he will go to the powers that be and tell them that you can increase revenue by selling more boxes. So development resources will be put into making new stuff for the boxes. Appealing stuff. If the business dude is a smart guy, he will also recommend you to increase rarity. Just a little bit. Tiny increases in rarity every now and then. Even more revenue for even less resources.

Remember the developement resources put into RNG boxes? They won't be available for making new content. But that doesn't matter. Because the loss of revenue from going down to 2 DLCs a year instead of 4 is easily made up for by RNG boxes. Actually, because 2 DLCs a year will be enough, and because making stuff for RNG boxes doesn't cost as many resources, you won't need as many developers. So revenue goes up again.

How about adding a little bit of RNG to the RNG boxes. Say, you have a 20% chance to find a new box, with it's own little RNG rewards. Like, getting previously exclusive stuff. We're pretty much in business dudes heaven right now. Only this is the point where you will have alienated your playerbase. Probably irreversibly alienated. To the business dude that doesn't matter much, because he's helped generate a humongous amount of revenue. Nobody can expect an online game to last forever. As long as revenue is enough to keep servers running, they will. But it will not be the same game.

Yes, this is not the most optimistic take on the future. No, I don't consider it to be the most pessimistic view either. Actually, it's pretty much what happened to SWTOR. And if you want to know what great new feature you can expect after a few years, have a look at this: http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-pack-opening-experience (they're happy to announce that opening RNG boxes now is a real experience).

This is why I seriously believe that adding RNG boxes is - in a way - deceiving players. Because even though right now it might be a decision made by the content developers, it has a very high chance of getting out of hand. In that regard, you could possibly say that the developers might deceive themselves, too, by adding RNG boxes.

I would be glad if maybe you @ZOS_GinaBruno could use the next ESO Live stream (not PAX) to explain why you feel you need to add RNG boxes. And I would be even more happy to be proven wrong in the long term.

tl;dr: RNG boxes will lead to the downfall of ESO. No, they won't. But matters are too complicated to put them in a single sentence. Read the whole text if you are seriously interested in the brave new world that awaits us.

P.S.: To offer more than just a bleak outlook on a possible future. If you want to use RNG boxes to bring back limited time offers, because you want to (understandably) generate revenue from them more often, why not add them back with a slight markup (this probably means that you will have to lower prices a bit in the first place, but if you find the sweet spot for that, this would allow you to regularly generate revenue from old assets). Old players will be happy because they bought them at a cheaper price. New players will be happy, because they get the chance to buy previously limited stuff at all. No RNG boxes needed at all.

^this also this^ furthermore this^ in conclusion this^

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Rosveen wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The crown boxes are even worse than your metaphor - in the unlikely case to win, you would would not get the album you like, but a random album, regardless if you want this album or not. And just if you have that album already, you get gems to buy that album which you like from an extra store - but it might just cost a little more gems than you have - so you have to keep gambling or your "win" was just a handful of worthless gems with which you can buy nothing of that what you want.

Yes, it is a game to them.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Legoless wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I've purchased every cosmetic offered in the Crown Store, every - single - one.

You shouldn't have too much of a problem accruing the Crown Gems needed to get the new mounts then, assuming they'll be available in that manner. Non-whales who don't buy everything will have a much tougher time getting them and will end up filling their collection with all sorts of trash along the way.

This is an excellent point (minus the trash part ). If you own the majority of collectibles already, then you'll gain Gems a lot more frequently, and can then purchase another collectible of your choice from the current Crown Crate season.

Collecting Gems is what players are supposed to be doing when there is nothing new in the Crates.

It wouldn't be so bad if unwanted items that are not repeated could be made into Gems too. I mean, someone who passed on a Hero Costume because they found it really badly made surely would want to receive the equivalent to 2000 Crowns on Crown gems instead of the costume.

Yeah. I'm not going to buy any Crown Crates because I'm mathematically literate, but even if I decided to try for a rare mount (say, the red wolf I've been waiting for - I'm sorry Abeille, but I'm hoping lockboxes will get the ice one instead if they must contain a wolf at all ), I'd just get trash along the way. I have relatively few crown store items, I buy them for specific characters and I don't need or want any others because they just don't fit my chars. If I could sell or exchange them, Crown Crates might at least have some value to me, but right now they don't.

First of all how dare you

My guess is that the Skeleton mounts will the the ones exclusive to the box for Witches' Festival, and the Wild Hunt ones (I don't remember their actual name, sorry) will be the ones for the New Life Festival. I imagine that the non-magical mounts will still be available through direct purchase, and the Ice Wolf would be a good mount to be made available around Christmas (especially because the 25th is in a Sunday this year, so they could make it a Thursday-to-Sunday limited offer right on the Christmas weekend).

But of course, we never know. I feel like offering the magical mounts in the box is the goal because they are sets with a theme that is constant through four or five types of mount. Skeleton, Wild Hunt and Atronach (I didn't see the last ones by the way, just saw people talking about them, so if anyone knows of a link that would be awesome).

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

lets not forget look at there current prices for things imo there a rip off but whatever .. you think these BOXES are going to be 75crowns bullsh.t..... i would not be suprised if there 500 crowns each so take the flaming horse or the dread cow wolf was 2500 crowns you really think the boxes are a 1/5 chance of getting that mount YEAH RIGHT!! the the black and blue panther 4000 crowns there going to give that to you for less than the actual cost in the first place... KEEP DREAMING why would the screw there own market ( bring back the mount sell it for 4000 crowns money made!! )

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

I'm not speculating They've said the boxes will be 400 crowns...

Have I done something to upset you? If so, I apologise! I'm simply weighing out my options and I didn't want to leave friends I have made. I changed my mind, which I'm entitled to do. As is everyone else. We all have our reasons for being here

You are speculating about the drop rates. You have no info about that - since ZOS has said nothing and noone has ever opened such a box yet. You don't know if it will drop a exclusive item out of 2 boxes, or 5, or 10, or 100, or a million.

And yes, while I appreciate your posts in general, in this matter I find your posture annoying. Let me try to explain with an analogy : it's like going on holidays expecting good weather but the forecast says bad weather. Three people in the group get very upset about it while the rest choose to cope with it and still look forward to the nice time they'll have in spite of the bad weather, and what pleasant activities they can organize indoors or outside in the rain. For those people, hearing the three "furious" complaining non stop, explaining over and over how awful the holiday is going to be, and threatening not to go (but still staying there and complaining) is not pleasant at all.

I'm glad you chose to stay because there's no reason to leave over those boxes. Your friends are more precious than that. And you're free to change your mind. But please, if you go, just go, don't stay here, and if you stay, play stay, but be positive.

Noone likes those boxes. Having people making such a drama about them makes it even more difficult to cope with. I hope you understand what I mean.

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

lets not forget look at there current prices for things imo there a rip off but whatever .. you think these BOXES are going to be 75crowns bullsh.t..... i would not be suprised if there 500 crowns each so take the flaming horse or the dread cow wolf was 2500 crowns you really think the boxes are a 1/5 chance of getting that mount YEAH RIGHT!! the the black and blue panther 4000 crowns there going to give that to you for less than the actual cost in the first place... KEEP DREAMING why would the screw there own market ( bring back the mount sell it for 4000 crowns money made!! )

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

I'm not speculating They've said the boxes will be 400 crowns...

Have I done something to upset you? If so, I apologise! I'm simply weighing out my options and I didn't want to leave friends I have made. I changed my mind, which I'm entitled to do. As is everyone else. We all have our reasons for being here

You are speculating about the drop rates. You have no info about that - since ZOS has said nothing and noone has ever opened such a box yet. You don't know if it will drop a exclusive item out of 2 boxes, or 5, or 10, or 100, or a million.

And yes, while I appreciate your posts in general, in this matter I find your posture annoying. Let me try to explain with an analogy : it's like going on holidays expecting good weather but the forecast says bad weather. Three people in the group get very upset about it while the rest choose to cope with it and still look forward to the nice time they'll have in spite of the bad weather, and what pleasant activities they can organize indoors or outside in the rain. For those people, hearing the three "furious" complaining non stop, explaining over and over how awful the holiday is going to be, and threatening not to go (but still staying there and complaining) is not pleasant at all.

I'm glad you chose to stay because there's no reason to leave over those boxes. Your friends are more precious than that. And you're free to change your mind. But please, if you go, just go, don't stay here, and if you stay, play stay, but be positive.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think I'm negative though. I'm actually really positive However I'm also a realist

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

lets not forget look at there current prices for things imo there a rip off but whatever .. you think these BOXES are going to be 75crowns bullsh.t..... i would not be suprised if there 500 crowns each so take the flaming horse or the dread cow wolf was 2500 crowns you really think the boxes are a 1/5 chance of getting that mount YEAH RIGHT!! the the black and blue panther 4000 crowns there going to give that to you for less than the actual cost in the first place... KEEP DREAMING why would the screw there own market ( bring back the mount sell it for 4000 crowns money made!! )

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

I'm not speculating They've said the boxes will be 400 crowns...

Have I done something to upset you? If so, I apologise! I'm simply weighing out my options and I didn't want to leave friends I have made. I changed my mind, which I'm entitled to do. As is everyone else. We all have our reasons for being here

You are speculating about the drop rates. You have no info about that - since ZOS has said nothing and noone has ever opened such a box yet. You don't know if it will drop a exclusive item out of 2 boxes, or 5, or 10, or 100, or a million.

And yes, while I appreciate your posts in general, in this matter I find your posture annoying. Let me try to explain with an analogy : it's like going on holidays expecting good weather but the forecast says bad weather. Three people in the group get very upset about it while the rest choose to cope with it and still look forward to the nice time they'll have in spite of the bad weather, and what pleasant activities they can organize indoors or outside in the rain. For those people, hearing the three "furious" complaining non stop, explaining over and over how awful the holiday is going to be, and threatening not to go (but still staying there and complaining) is not pleasant at all.

I'm glad you chose to stay because there's no reason to leave over those boxes. Your friends are more precious than that. And you're free to change your mind. But please, if you go, just go, don't stay here, and if you stay, play stay, but be positive.

To me, this is akin to saying, "if you don't agree with me, don't say anything, because anyone who disagrees with me I find to be negative."

ADarklore

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Cazzy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

lets not forget look at there current prices for things imo there a rip off but whatever .. you think these BOXES are going to be 75crowns bullsh.t..... i would not be suprised if there 500 crowns each so take the flaming horse or the dread cow wolf was 2500 crowns you really think the boxes are a 1/5 chance of getting that mount YEAH RIGHT!! the the black and blue panther 4000 crowns there going to give that to you for less than the actual cost in the first place... KEEP DREAMING why would the screw there own market ( bring back the mount sell it for 4000 crowns money made!! )

The boxes will be 400 crowns and, yeah, the odds of getting something other than potions or food will be slim. Very slim.

Cazzy, you're AGAIN speculating about things when you have absolutely no info, just for the fun of predicting the worst.
You have already backtracked from your decision to leave, just like wonkydog and Lysette (she backtracked on suing) , that's fine, but then please stop the drama. Be positive. Wait for info.
Worst case scenario, you don't buy any crown crates, problem solved.

I'm not speculating They've said the boxes will be 400 crowns...

Have I done something to upset you? If so, I apologise! I'm simply weighing out my options and I didn't want to leave friends I have made. I changed my mind, which I'm entitled to do. As is everyone else. We all have our reasons for being here

You are speculating about the drop rates. You have no info about that - since ZOS has said nothing and noone has ever opened such a box yet. You don't know if it will drop a exclusive item out of 2 boxes, or 5, or 10, or 100, or a million.

And yes, while I appreciate your posts in general, in this matter I find your posture annoying. Let me try to explain with an analogy : it's like going on holidays expecting good weather but the forecast says bad weather. Three people in the group get very upset about it while the rest choose to cope with it and still look forward to the nice time they'll have in spite of the bad weather, and what pleasant activities they can organize indoors or outside in the rain. For those people, hearing the three "furious" complaining non stop, explaining over and over how awful the holiday is going to be, and threatening not to go (but still staying there and complaining) is not pleasant at all.

I'm glad you chose to stay because there's no reason to leave over those boxes. Your friends are more precious than that. And you're free to change your mind. But please, if you go, just go, don't stay here, and if you stay, play stay, but be positive.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think I'm negative though. I'm actually really positive However I'm also a realist

But those who choose to wear rose-colored glasses don't want to hear realism.