What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

sAnn92 wrote: »

Denaia wrote: »

Here is the quote where Gina Bruno said there will be no lockboxes in eso "https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2t6g9i/please_no_locked_rng_boxes/". This was said by Matt Firor aswell, but I remember it being on the initial announcement video of tamriel unlimited, which is ofcourse not accesible anymore.

What? The quote says very clearly they didn't had plans at that time. Why are you trying so hard to misslead something quite obvious?

Yep. But things change, so now they have plans to add them.
Now, they are saying they are not putting any p2w item in the boxes. But things change.
Keep in mind that what Gina said was damage control. People were fearful about the changes the Crown Store would bring, and that was said to make people accept the Crown Store more easily. If they said "We might add them someday" instead, the reaction would have been very different.

In the end, the position you take on the issue depends on how optimistic or pessimistic you are, and on your personal experience with this kind of feature and how it evolved in other MMOs. None of us can see the future, we can just hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and keep voicing our fears in the hope that things won't change so much. If we just brush it off this time, the limits might be pushed further next time.

Waseem

No, don't ever add these into the game.

there will never be enough arrows to point on who said what..

with a minor exception here and a minor exception there, absolutely everything is possible.
original:
https://s14.postimg.io/i67l5ty41/orig.png

edit: take note before Zenimax delete reddit post, or my post.. or both

Thevampirenight

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Well, the gamble boxes are only going to do damage to them do to player hate for such a system. You can see the amount of players responding to this thread alone and the poll is showing a big support of nevering adding it and a lot of players might leave because of this one thing. People do not want to see this game go down and will leave for that very reason. People are unsubbing or moving on from eso because of the lootcrates. its possible they are adding the crown gems to act like currency to buy the costumes. But you would need to open so many, and if you get a costume that you already have its sellable to get these crown gems so hopefully it will not be as bad as players think it is but still I feel its a mistake adding the lootcrates/rng gamble boxes.

aldriq

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Besides all the fair points raised on this thread... am I the only one shocked at the fact that this game is going to have now 5 (five!) virtual currencies, with gold, AP, TV, crowns and crown gems?

Thevampirenight

No, don't ever add these into the game.

aldriq wrote: »

Besides all the fair points raised on this thread... am I the only one shocked at the fact that this game is going to have now 5 (five!) virtual currencies, with gold, AP, TV, crowns and crown gems?

Some games have a lot more currencies then that.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

aldriq wrote: »

Besides all the fair points raised on this thread... am I the only one shocked at the fact that this game is going to have now 5 (five!) virtual currencies, with gold, AP, TV, crowns and crown gems?

Heheh. Maybe because I played GW2 before ESO, but 5 currencies do not look like much to me by any means.

I don't even know how many currencies GW2 had at the point I left. It was one for each of the eight dungeons, plus another two for "Fractals" (endgame mini-dungeons that you had to do four random ones at a time), at least one for every seasonal event, coins (gold, silver and copper), the cash currency, karma, badges of honor (their large scale pvp currency, comparable to AP), laurels (log-in reward), some for the new maps, some guild currencies, some tickets...

Waseem

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

Besides all the fair points raised on this thread... am I the only one shocked at the fact that this game is going to have now 5 (five!) virtual currencies, with gold, AP, TV, crowns and crown gems?

Heheh. Maybe because I played GW2 before ESO, but 5 currencies do not look like much to me by any means.

I don't even know how many currencies GW2 had at the point I left. It was one for each of the eight dungeons, plus another two for "Fractals" (endgame mini-dungeons that you had to do four random ones at a time), at least one for every seasonal event, coins (gold, silver and copper), the cash currency, karma, badges of honor (their large scale pvp currency, comparable to AP), laurels (log-in reward), some for the new maps, some guild currencies, some tickets...

well after reading this.. WGT and ICP looted trophies and their keys started to look like a currency

Xsorus

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Mojmir wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Divines, the worth has been worn out of this post and is now replaced with animosity. Since this system is not out nor fully explained, this 'speculation' is just serves no point. Ohhh, there selling cosmetic items, nothing new. This fear that it will educe a gambling and P2W culture is unfounded as the game has had no intention of doing so for as long as I can tell, so just chill.

Test it when it comes out in 2 weeks and see if it's worth it. If not? Make some recommendations.

This game started off with elements of p2w, imperial edition? Any race any alliance? I'm on the fence with the gambling argument, hell you gamble leaving your house everyday.the basis of this thread needs to stay on track. The issue is the lockboxes leading to p2w.

Well lets be fair here....with Soft Caps in the beginning you really couldn't say Imperial Edition is pay to win..and hell Imperial itself isn't even the best Race for a vast majority of builds right now.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lockboxes - the greediest and most transparent attempt to wring as much money from players in as short a time as possible. I cannot understate how against this particular monetisation racket I am. The only reason to hide stuff in crates instead of putting it on the store is because on average, people have to spend much more money getting the item they want - it's the most blatant greed tactic a dev can pull. Sure it's great for the devs, but they're designed to prey on people who have very little self-control.

If these do make it into live, I'll be checking out for the final time. I do not and will not support any lockbox system, ever.

frethopper

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

If people really want this then fine, but it doesn't appeal to me.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Waseem wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

Besides all the fair points raised on this thread... am I the only one shocked at the fact that this game is going to have now 5 (five!) virtual currencies, with gold, AP, TV, crowns and crown gems?

Heheh. Maybe because I played GW2 before ESO, but 5 currencies do not look like much to me by any means.

I don't even know how many currencies GW2 had at the point I left. It was one for each of the eight dungeons, plus another two for "Fractals" (endgame mini-dungeons that you had to do four random ones at a time), at least one for every seasonal event, coins (gold, silver and copper), the cash currency, karma, badges of honor (their large scale pvp currency, comparable to AP), laurels (log-in reward), some for the new maps, some guild currencies, some tickets...

well after reading this.. WGT and ICP looted trophies and their keys started to look like a currency

Well, I was considering only the stuff you directly trade with NPCs for goods. Also I forgot skill points, they were also a currency in GW2.

Xsorus

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Edgemoor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Swtor has them; honestly never had a issue with them in that game. They didn't add anything that had an actual effect on the game, it's all cosmetic... People who whine about are just pathetic silly children who demand everything be given to them for free.

But all the good stuff goes into the cartel packs, hardly anything elsewhere. And after a while the chance to get anything good is now so low the only use for them is as a means to convert real money into game cash.

While this is true you can also pretty much spend in game cash on any of these said items vs real life money in that game...so its not a huge issue.

In swtor prices on the GTN are astronomical and utterly bizarre. True other events may well have contributed but there is no doubt that the rarest items are like rocking horse pellets and go for bizarre sums. But, thats not my concern ....

The gamblng pack addiction works two ways; one with players, and second with the developers.

I dislike the gambling packs simply because they suck the creative soul out of a game, in my opinion, and eventually it becomes more a priority to get new packs out than invest in the game; new content, bug fixing enhancements etc. It's not free and I don't expect it to be.

On the other hand, like anything, if restraint and sensible management is used it could be a real crown store asset providing revenue and a source of new cosmetics and content for us all.

ESO have proven pretty sensible so far, my hopes are high.

SWTOR prices have little to do with the Crates you buy and everything to do with Inflation. You can farm an absurd amount of coin in that game very easily.....I stated earlier in this thread i'd login just to send my 8 characters on slicing missions and barely played the game and I was able to pull 20 million credits with ease in that game. Someone who played every day and actually farmed credits could surpass me easily..the Daily Missions alone if ya did them resulted in something like 1 Million Credits Per day.

petraeus1

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I've seen some posts comparing it to a lottery system: buy a ticket, maybe you're in luck, hurray!

I disagree that it's entirely similar though.

In a lottery people buy a ticket for the sake of taking a chance at winning more money.

Here we have customers who actually want to buy something, but the company they're dealing with has a monopoly on the product and decided to put them behind a gambling mechanism only to make the most out of their customers. Customers who in many cases already spent a lot of money at said company.

To me, that's like the company is saying to its loyal customers: 'Tough luck.'

It's ZOS' business, and sure customers can decide for themselves, but it does not leave a good impression on me at all. I think gamble boxes are a nasty way to sell products.

BlueViolet

No, don't ever add these into the game.

This coming update, in one swoop, has added the most disappointing things for my personal taste, with the intro of One Tamriel which I don't like the sound of at all, Dueling in PVE zones, which also is not to my taste, and I even LIKE PvP ( but in its place ) and these lockbox ideas. With one update this game will turn into something I probably wont enjoy playing too much at all.

I pay for three subs, myself and my two sons. As well as extra crowns on occasions. I could have lived with the first two, and simply just been irritated by them, but this lockbox introduction is like the straw that broke the camel's back.
A couple of times before I've been close to canceling my own sub, and one of my sons canceled his. But ZoS always seemed to just scrape in there with enough reassurance to keep me contributing.

But not this time.
I wont contribute by subbing to a stupid lockbox scheme. I've sat through this rot in STO and Neverwinter, and seen how 90% of the best end game gear ends up in some *** box that has something like an 0.1% chance to drop a major prize.
I'd had hopes that this game wasn't going to turn into some clone of every other cookie cutter, greedy MMO out there, but it appears that is the direction it's being taken in. They might as well finish everyone off now, and just put in a stupid Auction House and call it done.

No thanks.
I'm pretty sure I'll be done by next update.
I always thought ESO would be that "one" MMO that refused to conform, and keep itself classy and unique - apart from the other MMO's. Because its Elder Scrolls. It's a world with a rich and deep lore, and amazing stories.
Not some money grabbing half-assed WoW clone.

Agalloch

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

Rosveen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Rosveen wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.

Yes, and as mentioned by several others already...if they wanted extra money then why not just add the mounts back to the store. People want these mounts, they are not expecting them to be free. They just want to buy the mount they want for £x and not gamble £xxx in the hope that they will be lucky enough to land it.

SantieClaws

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Khajiit she is a practical girl yes. She understands the need for coin.

However she smells here a concern for the short term coin - the graph at the end of the month - rather than the long term health of Tamriel. Like the ruler who cares only to look good at the next grand meeting of the clans but does not care if his tent falls down afterwards.

This one is concerned not for the individual boxes but that the boxes may change the focus of the rulers from Tamriel to the boxes. We sold 500 Sheo's Surprises so now let us move more and more goodies only into the magic boxes. Who needs Tamriel at all when we have the magic boxes! Khajiit she smells rats and not the tasty crunchy kind.

The whiskers they twitch uncomfortably. The tail it wags with a frown. Khajiit is not pleased. If the gods they feel short of coin then there are better ways to make it that do not leave the nasty taste between the teeth.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

wonkydog wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.

Yes, and as mentioned by several others already...if they wanted extra money then why not just add the mounts back to the store. People want these mounts, they are not expecting them to be free. They just want to buy the mount they want for £x and not gamble £xxx in the hope that they will be lucky enough to land it.

I agree, but the reason MMO devs hide behind lockboxes (although they'll never explicitly come out and say it) is because on average, players spend far more trying to obtain the desired item this way. It's the most cancerous form of cash shop marketing available, but boards and shareholders love the profit margins.

Kirsch9

Yeah, not really a good idea... you could just keep putting these items in the crown store from time to time, or heck, leave them in... oh wait, that wouldn't make you any money would it? haha

I don't really care about the cosmetic stuff being for sale in the crown store, wouldn't even care if they added motifs or even some armor/weapons that you can earn in game (wouldn't be real happy about it, I could deal with it though).... but the day, and I MEAN THE DAY, that any armor or weapon that's not in the game to find or earn goes in the crown store.... I'M DONE!!!!

I will never play a pay to win game and I think most of the real players of this game, or any other MMO for that matter, agree on that. Please, PLEASE don't ever do that! I love this game, love playing it! But I swear to you and all of the internet, the day you let some little spoiled kid get his/her parents to buy them an OP, only available in the crown store weapon or armor set to come kick my butt in Cyrodiil because they couldn't without it.... We are through, done, goodbye, was nice to know ya! It makes me wanna unsub just thinking this game may go down that route

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Considering this thread has gone 38 pages in just two days, I think they should SERIOUSLY reconsider going this route! There are plenty of other ways to add income to the game without adding in a gambling 'RNG' type of lottery box and include special and unique items that aren't purchasable otherwise. As others noted, it seems like a desperate means of grabbing income, and an unnecessary means at that.

I understand some people really don't like this and while I respect their opinion, this thread has had only 594 votes and the 38 pages of comments have been many people trying to share their point of view in a very back and forth manner. The number of people commenting and voting don't make much a dent in 7 million players. Not even if we're only talking 2 million active.

I think the conversation is important however and those of us that love ESO have a responsibility to provide the feedback we feel is appropriate.

With that being said I think it's fairly obvious that lockboxes can and will be a good source of income for the company if games like SWTOR and some others any indication. If you are going to have lockboxes in a game at all, then at least they have chosen to execute it in a very smart way to negate any impact on game play.

LMAO are you seriously trying to take that comment at E3 at face value and use it in your argument? How many of those 7 million accounts are active? How many are bots? How many are accounts that belong to people now banned? How many of them are sockpuppet accounts?

Anyone that was watching that announcement knew they werent talking about 7 million active individual players. Far from it.

Even if it were just 1 million, 594 votes is still a small fraction.

It is, however, enough to generate a decent survey population. Someone's been saying it's at ~5%, and if self-selection wasn't an issue, that would be true. However, even accounting for self-selection, this is a very strong negative reaction.

The vast majority of players do not know the lockboxes are a thing, yet. They have no idea. The vast majority of those seven million players won't know about them until they hit the live server.

Just to clarify what those 5% mean - I was the one bringing it up. I used a web-service to calculate the confidence interval for a survey result of 66% and an unknown population size with a sample size of 450 - and for these parameters the confidence interval is roughly 5% meaning with a probability of 99% the whole population would be between 61% and 71% against RNG boxes. I used this site http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

Garldeen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Xabien wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.

Yes, and as mentioned by several others already...if they wanted extra money then why not just add the mounts back to the store. People want these mounts, they are not expecting them to be free. They just want to buy the mount they want for £x and not gamble £xxx in the hope that they will be lucky enough to land it.

I agree, but the reason MMO devs hide behind lockboxes (although they'll never explicitly come out and say it) is because on average, players spend far more trying to obtain the desired item this way. It's the most cancerous form of cash shop marketing available, but boards and shareholders love the profit margins.

It'll be interesting to see the maths on it - I'm not disagreeing. Just wondering if the extra profit is worth the loss of goodwill.

If they add all the mounts back to the Crown store they will sell tens of thousands in total, let's say 20,000 (this is for all the mounts), at about £20 each on average. That is £400,000. The chance is that they will sell more than this but let us use this as a working figure.

On the other hand, the boxes will go for 400 crowns which are about £4 in the UK. On this logic, they will need to sell 100,000 boxes to make up the same amount of revenue.

Note, this does not include subscriptions lost because of people closing their account over this issue. Let's be generous and say that would cost them just £10,000; this adds another 2,500 boxes on the break even.

So, by my maths (which is 100% based on guesses and assumptions) , they would need to sell over 102,500 boxes just to cover the money they could have got without getting lots of bad PR. Seems a high amount for the negative press, especially considering my maths is probably underestimating how many mounts people would buy in the shop if they were readded.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

wonkydog wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

wonkydog wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm against those lock boxes..but if ZOS want to add them at least they could offer one or two per day for free like in Blade And Soul.

They don't give a toss about lockboxes themselves. They want to encourage us to spend more money and lockboxes just happen to be a very effective way to do it. Giving them away for free would go against the very reason ZOS decided to implement them.

Yes, and as mentioned by several others already...if they wanted extra money then why not just add the mounts back to the store. People want these mounts, they are not expecting them to be free. They just want to buy the mount they want for £x and not gamble £xxx in the hope that they will be lucky enough to land it.

I agree, but the reason MMO devs hide behind lockboxes (although they'll never explicitly come out and say it) is because on average, players spend far more trying to obtain the desired item this way. It's the most cancerous form of cash shop marketing available, but boards and shareholders love the profit margins.

It'll be interesting to see the maths on it - I'm not disagreeing. Just wondering if the extra profit is worth the loss of goodwill.

If they add all the mounts back to the Crown store they will sell tens of thousands in total, let's say 20,000 (this is for all the mounts), at about £20 each on average. That is £400,000. The chance is that they will sell more than this but let us use this as a working figure.

On the other hand, the boxes will go for 400 crowns which are about £4 in the UK. On this logic, they will need to sell 100,000 boxes to make up the same amount of revenue.

Note, this does not include subscriptions lost because of people closing their account over this issue. Let's be generous and say that would cost them just £10,000; this adds another 2,500 boxes on the break even.

So, by my maths (which is 100% based on guesses and assumptions) , they would need to sell over 102,500 boxes just to cover the money they could have got without getting lots of bad PR. Seems a high amount for the negative press, especially considering my maths is probably underestimating how many mounts people would buy in the shop if they were readded.

Very easily done, especially when you factor in the rng of lockboxes, which is why they're so tempting to devs in the first place. You might get the mount you want on the first pull, but then you may have to open 10+ to get it. They generally work best against people with little self control - the "just one more try" mindset can lead players to spend far, far more than they were willing to just to get the item they wanted.

Tyrion87

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Well this thread is so long now and I don't want to read all of it just to find the answer but I'm wondering what will happen if I get e.g. a mount which I already have? Will it be even possible?

petraeus1

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

@Tyrion87

bedlom

I don't feel good about it. One game comes to mind SWTOR and that games cash shop set up is atrocious.
But ESO has been obviously going down this route for awhile, what with all the mounts only attainable in the CS and not a single one added to the base game to earn (not even for abit of morale lol)
But I still give ESO credit for the fact I have only had to buy mounts, costumes etc once! (Unlike SWTOR)
And pricing is slowly getting better (fingers crossed it continues)

Cously

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

After thinking on it for some days I came to the conclusion that the best housing furnitures will probably be in boxes. Since I'm overly hyped for housing I will leave this for ZOS if you are reading:

I will pay 5,000 Crowns to get a Ruby Throne Replica. I will not pay one single Crown for the mere chance of getting one. I don't mind paying expensive fluffy but I refuse to pay anything for something that isn't guaranteed.

Tyrion87

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

petraeus1 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

@Tyrion87

Thank you! ;-)

Jade1986

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well this thread is so long now and I don't want to read all of it just to find the answer but I'm wondering what will happen if I get e.g. a mount which I already have? Will it be even possible?

I would certainly hope not! You cant sell them!

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

rhapsodious wrote: »

Hm, the topic of discussion a couple of pages back brought up a really good point - the PTS.

When the PTS comes up, I sincerely hope it will have these crates available because you know someone is going to buy hundreds of them (since everything is 1 crown on the PTS) and collect that sweet, sweet data. That way we could get a more informed opinion as to how RNG-ey it is - yes, people are against it from the start and I can understand that, but if it's a 5% chance to get a limited mount instead of a .5% chance, then that's a step in the right direction.

So, here's hoping they're at least not going to be shady about that and let us approximate the odds before we spend real money.

As if ZOS never before had ninja-changed parameters AFTER showing stuff off in the PTS - one cannot trust into the results from the PTS, there is no guarantee that ZOS will tweak chances there to create the illusion of a more fair deal. To me the case is pretty simply - ZOS is not trustworthy with stuff related to their crown store, whatever they showcase might just not be what you will get later.