MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
the amount of people who prefer to pay 70000 crowns for the mount or costume they want.. so sad..
you should be aware that zenimax can do alternative way for you to buy the old and previously released stuff for much less than of 50 mystery boxes
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
you find this hilarious exactly why?- Because you didn't know the difference and said psychology?- I said medical condition because if a disorder requires a physician to treat it, because it is a medical condition, then it belongs to psychiatry and the physician is a psychiatrist. If it does not require a physician but is a disorder, which is not a medical condition, it can be treated by a psychologist and belongs to the field of psychology. So there is nothing to laugh about - these are just facts and the difference is quite huge, because it is by far harder and takes longer to become a psychiatrist than a psychologist. A psychologist is not a physician, but a psychiatrist is one, he can prescribe medicine, a psychologist is very limited in this.
With this said, I will no longer talk to you, I find you rather unpleasant.
Maybe my bad english striked again, it has nothing to do with the psychology vs psychiatry, it has to do with you using disorders/conditions as an argument agains loot boxes on a videogame, thats why its hilarious.
But now you kinda starting to fit very well with r/iamverysmart sub reddit...
Oh my, you did not even understand why this is related to these RNG boxes - so I was right, your laughing was just a sign of not understanding it. Well, you will figure it out eventually - or not - not my problem anymore.
Well a hint - how might this be related to the topic?-
Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.
It is not that hard to figure that out.
Oh boi...
I know how its related...its still hilarious that you actually using it against rng boxes on a videogame lol
But yeah, whatever floats your boat, this off-topic went long enough.
I'm afraid @Lysette is a bit too upset right now to get it, so let me explain it to her for you.
And it's not really that far off-topic.
@Lysette , if your main concern is that ICD-affected people might be vulnerable to those lockboxes, and you don't want to participate in such a horrible undertaking by ZOS, then you should stop playing right now. Not even waiting for those boxes to exist, nor for your pre-paid subbing months to run out. Stop playing NOW. Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.
Because video games have destroyed the entire life already, of a non negligible number of otherwise nice and reasonable people, who could not control the amount of time they spent playing. And the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY is putting those people at risk (especially MMOs). And especially MMOs design strategies are based on our addictive behaviours and vulnerabilities.
So yes, seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious. Either you're really supportive of those people and really hate all companies that make a business out of them (in which case you quit playing video games altogether right now), or you live with the fact that everything is always dangerous to someone somewhere, and those people must find a way to protect themselves anyway.
I'm not happy about those boxes either, but your argumentation against them is illogical, extreme, and borderline ridiculous (sorry).
there will be so much QQ threads on the forum of people thinking they should get the mount or costume they are after with buying 6-8 boxes.. bro.. you need 200-300 boxes
MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
Online gambling is a massive source of revenue for online games, almost all popular online game does it. For ZOS to leave out on this opportunity is stupid. They should milk the hell out of their player base.
there will be so much QQ threads on the forum of people thinking they should get the mount or costume they are after with buying 6-8 boxes.. bro.. you need 200-300 boxes
I don't think I understand why people are threatening to quit over this. If you don't like the idea of loot boxes, don't buy them. Your gameplay will not be affected by you not having something you didn't have before.
starkerealm wrote: »A lot of us have come from games where the developers have abused systems like this, and began with the same, exact, promises.
And, because, this will, in fact, tank the game's development. It will distort the development priorities, and undermine the game itself.
People are planning to leave over this, because they take it that seriously.
Finally, this is an utter betrayal of a promise the developers made at launch, and reaffirmed when TU happened. That we wouldn't get these luckybag systems in game. And, I'll be honest, that was a non-trivial factor in my willingness to play and support ESO. So, when they're saying, "hah, well, just a little bit" you can probably understand why I'm suddenly in a very different position than I was 24 hours ago.
It is immoral and illegal in my home country - simple as that. and not just a mishap, but a crime which can be punished with up to 10 years in prison in severe cases (like it could be if tens of thousands of people are abused with this scam scheme of gambling boxes).
You of all people should understand that some things just don't fit the climate of the game and that players have a right to make requests and submit feedback about it. Many players think that gambling has no place in this game, just like many people think that ESO should be consistent with the rest of the Elder Scrolls lore. It's absolutely not a matter of just not buying lootboxes, it is setting a standard for the relationship we have as customers with the service providers. A huge number of us do NOT want to see gambling as one of the services they offer, period, never mind including gambler-exclusive items in the game.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Youre taking their word at face value. Which is your choice. But others can see the writing on the wall here. What they say now can change in 6 months. If these boxes arent selling like hot cakes. Its a safe bet theyll start adding things in that will get people dropping serious money. Ive seen it in other games. And Im not going to be surprised to see it introduced to this game.
I wouldn't mind if these were costing in-game gold; but using real money (converted to crowns), I will not trust them to not abuse the RNG system, and why should I? The temptation is too great, especially since there probably will be no listing of chance to win numbers or exact item lists of what can be won.
Be an "Honest Merchant, TRUST THIS ONE!", as the friendly neighborhood Khajiit trader says. Offer a product that the customer knows EXACTLY what they're getting, for how much.
Thanks guys for giving some awesome responses that go into detail of the effects this will have beyond the initial in-game impact and effects on gameplay.starkerealm wrote: »Enodoc, I sorta glossed over this earlier... actually, I discussed it in detail in an earlier post, but when I was responding to you, I didn't really focus on it.
Lucky bags make a lot of money. From an RoI perspective they're incredibly attractive. But, this also means, when you're committing developer resources to a project, they get a disproportionate amount of attention.
Implementing Lucky Bags actually makes it less likely that glitches like the group finder being completely bjorked will get fixed. If there's a problem with the bags? Yeah, that we need to get someone on right now. The finder can wait.
Similarly, it distorts development of future content. If you're saying, "well, I can put these resources into a product that will get us 25 bucks from a lot of players once, or I can put a tiny fraction of that into a piece of content that a handful of players will, literally, through thousands of dollars at us for, each," then you can see why priorities distort.
Lucky Bags can easily pull in more than any other income revenue stream for an MMO. In turn, they become the tail that wags the dog. For some people, that doesn't matter. They can keep on chugging away. But, for those of us who actually liked ESO, it's entering an era when the game we knew and loved is in serious jeopardy.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »</spoiler>
you find this hilarious exactly why?- Because you didn't know the difference and said psychology?- I said medical condition because if a disorder requires a physician to treat it, because it is a medical condition, then it belongs to psychiatry and the physician is a psychiatrist. If it does not require a physician but is a disorder, which is not a medical condition, it can be treated by a psychologist and belongs to the field of psychology. So there is nothing to laugh about - these are just facts and the difference is quite huge, because it is by far harder and takes longer to become a psychiatrist than a psychologist. A psychologist is not a physician, but a psychiatrist is one, he can prescribe medicine, a psychologist is very limited in this.
With this said, I will no longer talk to you, I find you rather unpleasant.
Maybe my bad english striked again, it has nothing to do with the psychology vs psychiatry, it has to do with you using disorders/conditions as an argument agains loot boxes on a videogame, thats why its hilarious.
But now you kinda starting to fit very well with r/iamverysmart sub reddit...
Oh my, you did not even understand why this is related to these RNG boxes - so I was right, your laughing was just a sign of not understanding it. Well, you will figure it out eventually - or not - not my problem anymore.
Well a hint - how might this be related to the topic?-
Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.
It is not that hard to figure that out.
Oh boi...
I know how its related...its still hilarious that you actually using it against rng boxes on a videogame lol
But yeah, whatever floats your boat, this off-topic went long enough.
I'm afraid @Lysette is a bit too upset right now to get it, so let me explain it to her for you.
And it's not really that far off-topic.
@Lysette , if your main concern is that ICD-affected people might be vulnerable to those lockboxes, and you don't want to participate in such a horrible undertaking by ZOS, then you should stop playing right now. Not even waiting for those boxes to exist, nor for your pre-paid subbing months to run out. Stop playing NOW. Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.
Because video games have destroyed the entire life already, of a non negligible number of otherwise nice and reasonable people, who could not control the amount of time they spent playing. And the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY is putting those people at risk (especially MMOs). And especially MMOs design strategies are based on our addictive behaviours and vulnerabilities.
So yes, seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious. Either you're really supportive of those people and really hate all companies that make a business out of them (in which case you quit playing video games altogether right now), or you live with the fact that everything is always dangerous to someone somewhere, and those people must find a way to protect themselves anyway.
I'm not happy about those boxes either, but your argumentation against them is illogical, extreme, and borderline ridiculous (sorry).
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Stop playing NOW". Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.
What kind of a logic is that - do I have to stop drinking, just because I am pointing out that serving alcohol to alcoholics is a bad thing and preying on them?-
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.
not statistically significant.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.
not statistically significant.
Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nero fiddles.
Rome burns.
I'd love to see ZOS comment on this without the intent to shut the thread down. Would let me know whether or not to pack bags or not.
Nothing is burning. Everyone reacted the same way with the cash shop and It's the most ethical and well done cash shop in an MMO in my opinion. I think ZOS will comment and they won't shut down the thread. After how they have handled the cash shop, I have faith they will handle this well also.
You call 25 bucks for a namechange ethical?
While there are very few problems with it, it's arrival marked a time when people started to begin to question whether or not ZOS was even lisening to us. It's become almost a meme now, that ZOS dosent lisen to player feedback.
So no. It is burning. Because even the people who trust ZOS are going "...Uhh. What."
I see you are new here, and havent had the pleasure of being with this game since launch. Zenimax has been the BEST at listening and actually changing things based on player opinions. I have played pretty much every game with a cash shop and I can tell you, this is one of the most tastefull, and most well done cash shop I have ever experienced. None of the things you can purchase impact your gameplay. All it will really do is give you mount envy when you see someone riding around that super rare mount.
Actually I was.
I bought the game once at launch, played in Beta actually, came back with Tamriel Unlimited. And since then, I have watched this game go down hill.
Nice try, cupcake.
New account then? Says you joined this month. Also if you were here you would know they have a pretty track record with listening to their player base and changing things.
This is a forum, please refrain from name calling, or baiting me into a flame war by using derogatory terms such as "cupcake".
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.
not statistically significant.
Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.
not statistically significant.
Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
please show your working.... how do you get around 340 to be 5% of 7 million?
i think you will find that 5%of 7 million is 350000
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »What kind of a logic is that - do I have to stop drinking, just because I am pointing out that serving alcohol to alcoholics is a bad thing and preying on them?-
Pretty much this, yes.
Let's carry on with this very appropriate analogy. Let's assume ESO is a pub, and this pub serves alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) to a public among which, inevitably, some are alcoholics. You consider this normal.
Now this pub serves strong alcohol (whisky) on top of what it was already serving, and you're going all offended and crazy of how a PUB serves strong alcohol to people who might be alcoholic, and how bad and unethical it is.
My point is that, to an alcoholic, alcohol is alcohol, no matter if it is beer or whisky. People with ICD will most likely already be addicted to the game and/ot the crown store to the point where their real life (and real money) is already compromised. Lockboxes will not change that.
My other (related) point is that, just like the beverages industry and the pubs are making a profit (and thus partly "prey on") people who are addicted to alcohol, the videogame industry as a whole makes huge profits (and thus partly "prey on") people who have a gaming addiction, and/or a spending addiction. With or without lockboxes and gambling stuff.
Do I think one should suppress the pubs to protect alcoholics from their ICD/addiction ? No. I think it is their responsibility to avoid alcohol and temptation in general. Do I think video games should not exist to protect gaming addicts ? No.
But you think lockboxes and gambling systems should not exist at all in ESO just because it might be dangerous to some people. And if you think that way, then the only way to be consistent with yourself is to stop playing and supporting any kind of videogame - especially MMOs -, because this industry is, de facto, preying on our addictions of all kinds. Even though not all of us are addicted.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »MarkusLiberty wrote: »I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something
It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.
This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.
i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.
not statistically significant.
Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
please show your working.... how do you get around 340 to be 5% of 7 million?
i think you will find that 5%of 7 million is 350000
My voice will be lost in this thread but I'm not going to stay silent.
If/when they implement this or confirm it, I will have to say goodbye.
I have an addictive personality (been sober for about 6 years now) and ESO is (or was) my escape, my joy. I love collecting mounts, pets and costumes but I try to be very conscious with what I'm buying. Items that hide behind gambling boxes takes my choice away. I can't choose it. I can't decide what I purchase.
This makes me unhappy.
When a game that made me feel such joy suddenly makes me feel unhappy, I can't support it.
I looked at the crown store showcase again after the boxes were announced and realised I had lost my excitement for the costume and mount being released for a "Limited Time". I was looking forward to them only yesterday.
Make as big or as little of a deal of this as you will, but you're asking for real world money.
I genuinely supported you. I've got fan t-shirts and have stayed up until 5am to watch streams and live shows. I feel like I've met a hero and all he turned out to be is a greedy man in an expensive suit.