What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

JD2013

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I find it odd that this thread is still going.

It's becoming like the crafting bag all over again. It's good to see there's passion on these forums though, both for and against!

Balticthunder

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Such a disgusting news! So the door to FTP Asian style game is open. One must live in absolute delusion to think that it would stop at adding old mounts and some meaningless fluff items.
I bought and subed to ESO because it was one of few western style games with rich lore and universe left on the market. Not anymore. Seems like times of mmoRPGs has gone, now they all turn into casions online set in some game universe.

""It will not affect anyone else in the game"" - how it will not affect!? It already is shown in this thread that people are crazy to get some mount which isnt available to them anymore. The consumer instinct is so strong, tons of people would not resist to buy rng boxes, because they want so badly that fluff item some other have! They just cant resist to get new shinny and ZOS are capitalese on it.

Avenias

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Online gambling is a massive source of revenue for online games, almost all popular online game does it. For ZOS to leave out on this opportunity is stupid. They should milk the hell out of their player base.

Adernath

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

Lumi

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I don't like them. Too much rng in this game already. I like to collect mounts, pets and costumes and I hate the idea that there is something I don't have a change to get. If they put some exclusive item there (like the black cat or white wolf) with 0.01% drop rate...

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Waseem wrote: »

the amount of people who prefer to pay 70000 crowns for the mount or costume they want.. so sad..
you should be aware that zenimax can do alternative way for you to buy the old and previously released stuff for much less than of 50 mystery boxes

That will not even be close to enough if one does not have nearly all costumes already - that is what makes this such a bad system - because if a costume drops, maybe after 40 boxes, and you do not have this yet, then regardless if you like this costume or not, it will be added to your collection tab and you will not get Crown Gems to exchange for something else. So it might take multiple times those 40 boxes and you might still not end up getting what you want - but when people will realize that they got scammed by ZOS, giving them stuff they do not want as "win" instead of that costume, which they want, it is too late and their wallet will be drained massively already - this is a lousy system and made to prey on people, who cannot see through this scheme early enough or who have no way to deal with it properly, because they have an impulse control disorder.

Waseem

No, don't ever add these into the game.

there will be so much QQ threads on the forum of people thinking they should get the mount or costume they are after with buying 6-8 boxes.. bro.. you need 200-300 boxes

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

you find this hilarious exactly why?- Because you didn't know the difference and said psychology?- I said medical condition because if a disorder requires a physician to treat it, because it is a medical condition, then it belongs to psychiatry and the physician is a psychiatrist. If it does not require a physician but is a disorder, which is not a medical condition, it can be treated by a psychologist and belongs to the field of psychology. So there is nothing to laugh about - these are just facts and the difference is quite huge, because it is by far harder and takes longer to become a psychiatrist than a psychologist. A psychologist is not a physician, but a psychiatrist is one, he can prescribe medicine, a psychologist is very limited in this.

With this said, I will no longer talk to you, I find you rather unpleasant.

Maybe my bad english striked again, it has nothing to do with the psychology vs psychiatry, it has to do with you using disorders/conditions as an argument agains loot boxes on a videogame, thats why its hilarious.

But now you kinda starting to fit very well with r/iamverysmart sub reddit...

Oh my, you did not even understand why this is related to these RNG boxes - so I was right, your laughing was just a sign of not understanding it. Well, you will figure it out eventually - or not - not my problem anymore.

Well a hint - how might this be related to the topic?-

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

It is not that hard to figure that out.

Oh boi...
I know how its related...its still hilarious that you actually using it against rng boxes on a videogame lol
But yeah, whatever floats your boat, this off-topic went long enough.

I'm afraid @Lysette is a bit too upset right now to get it, so let me explain it to her for you.

And it's not really that far off-topic.

@Lysette , if your main concern is that ICD-affected people might be vulnerable to those lockboxes, and you don't want to participate in such a horrible undertaking by ZOS, then you should stop playing right now. Not even waiting for those boxes to exist, nor for your pre-paid subbing months to run out. Stop playing NOW. Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.

Because video games have destroyed the entire life already, of a non negligible number of otherwise nice and reasonable people, who could not control the amount of time they spent playing. And the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY is putting those people at risk (especially MMOs). And especially MMOs design strategies are based on our addictive behaviours and vulnerabilities.

So yes, seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious. Either you're really supportive of those people and really hate all companies that make a business out of them (in which case you quit playing video games altogether right now), or you live with the fact that everything is always dangerous to someone somewhere, and those people must find a way to protect themselves anyway.

I'm not happy about those boxes either, but your argumentation against them is illogical, extreme, and borderline ridiculous (sorry).

What kind of a logic is that - do I have to stop drinking, just because I am pointing out that serving alcohol to alcoholics is a bad thing and preying on them?- And I do not see why you highlight "in a video game" - the damage done to ICD people in a video game is in the real world, where they have less money available to go on with their normal life and it becomes a nightmare due to their spending "in a video game". Some might not pay their rent or mortgage due to that they cannot control themselves and just have to buy another 50 boxes to get an item they want, and then another 50 because they did not get what they want - until their money required to make a living is that much drained, that they are actually endangering their very existence in REAL LIFE - that they spent that money in a video game does not mean, that the damage will just stay in that video game - it is effecting their real life in eventually terrible ways - and their family might suffer by this as well. This has real life effects, it is not just "in a video game" - I really don't understand why you cannot see that.

So what exactly is illogical with the argumentation?-

Delpi

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Waseem wrote: »

there will be so much QQ threads on the forum of people thinking they should get the mount or costume they are after with buying 6-8 boxes.. bro.. you need 200-300 boxes

Exactly. Like telvar boxes in game lol. I lost count on how many telvars I spent on that and I don't have any polymorph yet :P

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Avenias wrote: »

Online gambling is a massive source of revenue for online games, almost all popular online game does it. For ZOS to leave out on this opportunity is stupid. They should milk the hell out of their player base.

That is a drug dealer mentality and equally disgusting.

Mojmir

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Online gambling is a massive source of revenue for online games, almost all popular online game does it. For ZOS to leave out on this opportunity is stupid. They should milk the hell out of their player base.

That is a drug dealer mentality and equally disgusting.

That's the sales dept of a corporation. Lol

Avenias

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

U guys make it sound like as if ur opinion matters. The decision has been made already and they will not change it regardless of ur views.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Waseem wrote: »

there will be so much QQ threads on the forum of people thinking they should get the mount or costume they are after with buying 6-8 boxes.. bro.. you need 200-300 boxes

This and not even this will be enough, if they have nearly nothing in their collection tab yet - they might just run out of money before they get what they want - this is a scheme which preys on those, who cannot see through this scheme early on or which have an impulse control disorder. It could take thousands of boxes to actually get what they want.

Mortam

No, don't ever add these into the game.

One of the main goals in any MMO is to look cool/unique - nobody runs around in starter gear at max level, not only because of the stats, but also because it looks like crap. In older MMOs everyone went through the "clown" faze of miss-matched gear - always looking for the "better" looking gear, with many players taking looks over stats.

Cash shops are the worst thing that ever happened to MMOs.
Anything that can be bought with real money is P2W.

Avenias

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Please take the pay to win route ZOS and make lots of money. The game is big enough to start mass exploitation of loyal players.

Enodoc

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Enodoc wrote: »

I don't think I understand why people are threatening to quit over this. If you don't like the idea of loot boxes, don't buy them. Your gameplay will not be affected by you not having something you didn't have before.

starkerealm wrote: »

A lot of us have come from games where the developers have abused systems like this, and began with the same, exact, promises.

And, because, this will, in fact, tank the game's development. It will distort the development priorities, and undermine the game itself.

People are planning to leave over this, because they take it that seriously.

Finally, this is an utter betrayal of a promise the developers made at launch, and reaffirmed when TU happened. That we wouldn't get these luckybag systems in game. And, I'll be honest, that was a non-trivial factor in my willingness to play and support ESO. So, when they're saying, "hah, well, just a little bit" you can probably understand why I'm suddenly in a very different position than I was 24 hours ago.

Lysette wrote: »

It is immoral and illegal in my home country - simple as that. and not just a mishap, but a crime which can be punished with up to 10 years in prison in severe cases (like it could be if tens of thousands of people are abused with this scam scheme of gambling boxes).

Recremen wrote: »

You of all people should understand that some things just don't fit the climate of the game and that players have a right to make requests and submit feedback about it. Many players think that gambling has no place in this game, just like many people think that ESO should be consistent with the rest of the Elder Scrolls lore. It's absolutely not a matter of just not buying lootboxes, it is setting a standard for the relationship we have as customers with the service providers. A huge number of us do NOT want to see gambling as one of the services they offer, period, never mind including gambler-exclusive items in the game.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Youre taking their word at face value. Which is your choice. But others can see the writing on the wall here. What they say now can change in 6 months. If these boxes arent selling like hot cakes. Its a safe bet theyll start adding things in that will get people dropping serious money. Ive seen it in other games. And Im not going to be surprised to see it introduced to this game.

Morimizo wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if these were costing in-game gold; but using real money (converted to crowns), I will not trust them to not abuse the RNG system, and why should I? The temptation is too great, especially since there probably will be no listing of chance to win numbers or exact item lists of what can be won.

Be an "Honest Merchant, TRUST THIS ONE!", as the friendly neighborhood Khajiit trader says. Offer a product that the customer knows EXACTLY what they're getting, for how much.

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc, I sorta glossed over this earlier... actually, I discussed it in detail in an earlier post, but when I was responding to you, I didn't really focus on it.

Lucky bags make a lot of money. From an RoI perspective they're incredibly attractive. But, this also means, when you're committing developer resources to a project, they get a disproportionate amount of attention.

Implementing Lucky Bags actually makes it less likely that glitches like the group finder being completely bjorked will get fixed. If there's a problem with the bags? Yeah, that we need to get someone on right now. The finder can wait.

Similarly, it distorts development of future content. If you're saying, "well, I can put these resources into a product that will get us 25 bucks from a lot of players once, or I can put a tiny fraction of that into a piece of content that a handful of players will, literally, through thousands of dollars at us for, each," then you can see why priorities distort.

Lucky Bags can easily pull in more than any other income revenue stream for an MMO. In turn, they become the tail that wags the dog. For some people, that doesn't matter. They can keep on chugging away. But, for those of us who actually liked ESO, it's entering an era when the game we knew and loved is in serious jeopardy.

Thanks guys for giving some awesome responses that go into detail of the effects this will have beyond the initial in-game impact and effects on gameplay.

I think these concerns can be summarised as:

• Development priority
• Legality
• Developer/consumer relations

Correct me if I'm wrong there, there's 28 pages of this and I may have missed a category of concern in that.


Does anyone have a direct quote and source of the comment where ZOS said they would never do lockboxes? That would need to be a comment after January 2015, as anything before that (including "we will never lock content behind paywalls") is a comment from a company running a subscription service, and is therefore invalid, as that is not the company we have today.

petraeus1

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Avenias wrote: »

U guys make it sound like as if ur opinion matters. The decision has been made already and they will not change it regardless of ur views.

With that attitude we might as well close the forums down altogether.

MacCait

No, don't ever add these into the game.

<spoiler>

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

you find this hilarious exactly why?- Because you didn't know the difference and said psychology?- I said medical condition because if a disorder requires a physician to treat it, because it is a medical condition, then it belongs to psychiatry and the physician is a psychiatrist. If it does not require a physician but is a disorder, which is not a medical condition, it can be treated by a psychologist and belongs to the field of psychology. So there is nothing to laugh about - these are just facts and the difference is quite huge, because it is by far harder and takes longer to become a psychiatrist than a psychologist. A psychologist is not a physician, but a psychiatrist is one, he can prescribe medicine, a psychologist is very limited in this.

With this said, I will no longer talk to you, I find you rather unpleasant.

Maybe my bad english striked again, it has nothing to do with the psychology vs psychiatry, it has to do with you using disorders/conditions as an argument agains loot boxes on a videogame, thats why its hilarious.

But now you kinda starting to fit very well with r/iamverysmart sub reddit...

Oh my, you did not even understand why this is related to these RNG boxes - so I was right, your laughing was just a sign of not understanding it. Well, you will figure it out eventually - or not - not my problem anymore.

Well a hint - how might this be related to the topic?-

Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.

It is not that hard to figure that out.

Oh boi...
I know how its related...its still hilarious that you actually using it against rng boxes on a videogame lol
But yeah, whatever floats your boat, this off-topic went long enough.

</spoiler>


I'm afraid @Lysette is a bit too upset right now to get it, so let me explain it to her for you.

And it's not really that far off-topic.

@Lysette , if your main concern is that ICD-affected people might be vulnerable to those lockboxes, and you don't want to participate in such a horrible undertaking by ZOS, then you should stop playing right now. Not even waiting for those boxes to exist, nor for your pre-paid subbing months to run out. Stop playing NOW. Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.

Because video games have destroyed the entire life already, of a non negligible number of otherwise nice and reasonable people, who could not control the amount of time they spent playing. And the ENTIRE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY is putting those people at risk (especially MMOs). And especially MMOs design strategies are based on our addictive behaviours and vulnerabilities.

So yes, seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious. Either you're really supportive of those people and really hate all companies that make a business out of them (in which case you quit playing video games altogether right now), or you live with the fact that everything is always dangerous to someone somewhere, and those people must find a way to protect themselves anyway.

I'm not happy about those boxes either, but your argumentation against them is illogical, extreme, and borderline ridiculous (sorry).

@anitajoneb17_ESO

I've read Lysette's arguments, and I do not agree with your insinuation that @Lysette is crying. You accuse her arguments of being "illogical, extreme, and borderline ridiculous", but in fairness, your responses to Lynette are not actually adding to a constructive discussion, they are just attacking and baiting, which as you know are against forum rules. The irony is that your reply also comes across as illogical and a little extreme with solutions such as “leave the game”, “stop playing ALL games”.

Everyone here will have an opinion either for or against, and just as you disagree with Lynette's arguments, others will disagree with you. There is no need to make things personal and attack people. If anything, attacks and baiting just show a lack of empathy, and in this case also seem to indicate you don't really understand the bigger picture and real issues.

We are all players, we all come from different walks of life, different backgrounds, different life situations, and we share one thing in common on this forum, we all enjoy playing this game. So I imagine we all want the best for this game, and some people also want the best for the community of players. So having an opinion and sharing a discussion that introducing RNG boxes that will require real money, and can have an affect on people with issues and conditions regarding low self control, seems to me to be a fair, relevant and honest discussion, that actually has reasoning.

I think the relevant points that might have been missed as to why this is a real and serious issue is this:

This business model of game companies introducing RNG boxes for real cash has one purpose, to earn the game company a LOT of money, and not through the fair and honest sales of items that people actually want to purchase from the crown store, but by introducing gambling into the game! Where players pay real money for a box, hoping to get that chance to win that rare item that can only be received from purchasing a RNG box. As it is rare, the likelihood is that the player will have to buy a great many boxes before getting the item they are looking for, so in total, they have paid a lot more money for an item than if it had been just been made available on the crown store for single purchase!

So the first issue with this is that the only people actually winning are the game companies introducing this as a business model, and the way this business model works is by taking advantage of players!

The second BIG issue is that it is also taking advantage of more vulnerable players who experience gambling problems, addictive personalities, obsessive compulsive issues and disorders (OCD), impulse control disorders (ICD) etc. People with such disorders, and issues are actually quite common within any population; they are not simply a minority! Just as with mental illness, such issues are actually quite common and have a variety of degrees; most people have a level of obsessive compulsiveness, but with varying degrees of being able to control it.

It could be said that this business model does not just take advantage of players that have this vulnerability, but is a business model that specifically targets them! You may at first see that as an extreme position, or viewpoint, but it is not. All players with a few crowns to spare may buy a box or two at some point... but those players are not really making the company that much money. A more vulnerable player with ICD, OCD, gambling issues, or addictive personality will however buy A LOT of boxes! Companies using this business model depend upon that aspect of the community! Therefore it is a business model that specifically targets players with these kinds of issues!

So with regards to forum comments in this topic, such as:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

seeing you crying about ICD-affected people for RNG-based boxes IN A VIDEO GAME is pretty hilarious

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Stop playing NOW". Oh, and also, don't just stop playing ESO. Stop playing any video game of any sort.

These kind of personal attacks upon players that are adding constructive concerns to this discussion are unnecessary and don't add anything to the discussion. There is a real cause for concern here, and as I see it, this is what this thread is about.

Why is it hilarious? We are all players from all different walks of life and different backgrounds, who all care about the game and enjoy playing it as a form of social entertainment, hobby, some form of enjoyment. As a social adult game, why wouldn't we care about a fellow community of players, and especially players/friends who may be more vulnerable and easily affected by such a business strategy?

Also, is it really hilarious that rich and greedy companies and corporations employ these kind of manipulative gambling tactics to target such players in order to take more money from them? Is it an ethical practice? Does it ensure the longevity of the game? Does it add any actual quality to the game? What is its actual purpose? Does it risk alienating players and losing the trust of a loyal fan base?

These are all relevant questions to such a debate. And the debate only exists because a portion of the community has the foresight or past experience to see how such a business model is not a good thing for the game and its community, not just within ESO, but any online game. It's a greedy trend and a business practice that preys upon people.

Also, as a player of online games, each player in the community has a chance to tell companies that this is not an acceptable or appropriate practice. It is not a beneficial practice for the players and it does not help the state or quality of the game, so why use it at all? By not standing up and saying it's wrong, when it is wrong, you are just part of the problem!

Laws to control such things as ethics in online gaming are only ever passed when a large enough community shouts loud enough and for long enough that certain arenas outside of online gaming hear and can then make changes.

As for Zenimax. I have to ask, is this type of business model really in your best interest? Yes it will earn you a lot of money, but only at the risk of damaging the respect of a large portion of your loyal player and fan base. You have come up with a unique MMO/RPG, and your players have in the past respected you for that. Do you really want to be just the same as all the other crappy game companies? Or do you want to think outside the [RNG] box? The latter will earn you more respect from your customer player base, and as such add to the longevity of the game!

petraeus1

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

I'd like to crosspost similar discussions of the same subject on other outlets that are similarly heated:

r/elderscrollsonline (subreddit)

r/MMORPG (subreddit)

MassivelyOP.com (press)

MMORPG.com (press)

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

What kind of a logic is that - do I have to stop drinking, just because I am pointing out that serving alcohol to alcoholics is a bad thing and preying on them?-

Pretty much this, yes.

Let's carry on with this very appropriate analogy. Let's assume ESO is a pub, and this pub serves alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) to a public among which, inevitably, some are alcoholics. You consider this normal.

Now this pub serves strong alcohol (whisky) on top of what it was already serving, and you're going all offended and crazy of how a PUB serves strong alcohol to people who might be alcoholic, and how bad and unethical it is.

My point is that, to an alcoholic, alcohol is alcohol, no matter if it is beer or whisky. People with ICD will most likely already be addicted to the game and/ot the crown store to the point where their real life (and real money) is already compromised. Lockboxes will not change that.

My other (related) point is that, just like the beverages industry and the pubs are making a profit (and thus partly "prey on") people who are addicted to alcohol, the videogame industry as a whole makes huge profits (and thus partly "prey on") people who have a gaming addiction, and/or a spending addiction. With or without lockboxes and gambling stuff.

Do I think one should suppress the pubs to protect alcoholics from their ICD/addiction ? No. I think it is their responsibility to avoid alcohol and temptation in general. Do I think video games should not exist to protect gaming addicts ? No.

But you think lockboxes and gambling systems should not exist at all in ESO just because it might be dangerous to some people. And if you think that way, then the only way to be consistent with yourself is to stop playing and supporting any kind of videogame - especially MMOs -, because this industry is, de facto, preying on our addictions of all kinds. Even though not all of us are addicted.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

Lysette, the sample would be large enough to have statistical significance, but unfortunately it is biased. If you want a representative, unbiased sample, you have to take it among the actual players.
All this poll says is that 66% of registered forum voters (with a confidence interval of 5%) are against these boxes. It has nothing to do with "the whole population" or "ESO players".

dsalter

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Sylance9 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Nero fiddles.

Rome burns.

I'd love to see ZOS comment on this without the intent to shut the thread down. Would let me know whether or not to pack bags or not.

Nothing is burning. Everyone reacted the same way with the cash shop and It's the most ethical and well done cash shop in an MMO in my opinion. I think ZOS will comment and they won't shut down the thread. After how they have handled the cash shop, I have faith they will handle this well also.

You call 25 bucks for a namechange ethical?

While there are very few problems with it, it's arrival marked a time when people started to begin to question whether or not ZOS was even lisening to us. It's become almost a meme now, that ZOS dosent lisen to player feedback.

So no. It is burning. Because even the people who trust ZOS are going "...Uhh. What."

I see you are new here, and havent had the pleasure of being with this game since launch. Zenimax has been the BEST at listening and actually changing things based on player opinions. I have played pretty much every game with a cash shop and I can tell you, this is one of the most tastefull, and most well done cash shop I have ever experienced. None of the things you can purchase impact your gameplay. All it will really do is give you mount envy when you see someone riding around that super rare mount.

Actually I was.

I bought the game once at launch, played in Beta actually, came back with Tamriel Unlimited. And since then, I have watched this game go down hill.

Nice try, cupcake.

New account then? Says you joined this month. Also if you were here you would know they have a pretty track record with listening to their player base and changing things.

This is a forum, please refrain from name calling, or baiting me into a flame war by using derogatory terms such as "cupcake".

AoE caps, exploits, bugs. many things got ignored, hell many bugs from PTS got ignored and made it into live. just look at the salvation set.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

please show your working.... how do you get around 340 to be 5% of 7 million?

i think you will find that 5%of 7 million is 350000

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

please show your working.... how do you get around 340 to be 5% of 7 million?

i think you will find that 5%of 7 million is 350000

Read the website Lysette linked.
It's got nothing to do with 5% of 7 million. Not at all.

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lovin' the steam this thread keeps geting.

Keep it going. Spread the word. Have people get on their forum accounts just to vote.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

What kind of a logic is that - do I have to stop drinking, just because I am pointing out that serving alcohol to alcoholics is a bad thing and preying on them?-

Pretty much this, yes.

Let's carry on with this very appropriate analogy. Let's assume ESO is a pub, and this pub serves alcohol (beer, wine, etc.) to a public among which, inevitably, some are alcoholics. You consider this normal.

Now this pub serves strong alcohol (whisky) on top of what it was already serving, and you're going all offended and crazy of how a PUB serves strong alcohol to people who might be alcoholic, and how bad and unethical it is.

My point is that, to an alcoholic, alcohol is alcohol, no matter if it is beer or whisky. People with ICD will most likely already be addicted to the game and/ot the crown store to the point where their real life (and real money) is already compromised. Lockboxes will not change that.

My other (related) point is that, just like the beverages industry and the pubs are making a profit (and thus partly "prey on") people who are addicted to alcohol, the videogame industry as a whole makes huge profits (and thus partly "prey on") people who have a gaming addiction, and/or a spending addiction. With or without lockboxes and gambling stuff.

Do I think one should suppress the pubs to protect alcoholics from their ICD/addiction ? No. I think it is their responsibility to avoid alcohol and temptation in general. Do I think video games should not exist to protect gaming addicts ? No.

But you think lockboxes and gambling systems should not exist at all in ESO just because it might be dangerous to some people. And if you think that way, then the only way to be consistent with yourself is to stop playing and supporting any kind of videogame - especially MMOs -, because this industry is, de facto, preying on our addictions of all kinds. Even though not all of us are addicted.

i play just casually and I have a drink or visit a pub once in a while - there is no reason for me to stop this behavior, because it is just a form of entertainment to me, I am not forced to do that by a mental disorder. So i can make the decision to play or drink and my life will not get out of order by this - but the same is not true for ICD people who lack the ability to reasonably control their behavior. Just like I would not support a pub, which would especially target alcoholics, I do no longer support this game with my money - ZOS is offering these boxes and I am no longer offering my money to them - this is my consequence of it and I am voicing my concerns loudly in an attempt to make others understand, what the problem here is.

Btw in London this problem with pubs is solved in an easy way - it is officially illegal to be drunk in a pub So any pub owner, who serves alcoholic beverages to customers to a point, where they get drunk, can be hold accountable just like the drunken guest itself.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

MarkusLiberty wrote: »

I dont think the forums are that much of an indicator as to what the ESO community really wants. Only a tiny minority of players use it, and the people who tend to voice their opinions are usually those who are displeased with something

It is always easier to raise criticism than making compliments, probably that is why you got this impression. But I say that those belong to the true fans of this series. The others who don't join the forums are just playing - or leaving - the game without any feedback. The fact that you belong to those 30% of players of that 'tiny minority' would make your own statement even less important.

This thread already raised the attention of at least 500 people, I'd say it already gives a decent indication.

i looked a minute ago and about 340 people voted against the idea. that's roughly 0.005% of the games population.

not statistically significant.

Well you are wrong about that - have a look - that sample size is more than enough for a decent confidence interval of about 5% - meaning the whole population can confidently be assumed to be between 61% and 71% against these boxes - if the poll shows 66% for example.

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

please show your working.... how do you get around 340 to be 5% of 7 million?

i think you will find that 5%of 7 million is 350000

The confidence interval is 5% - just have a look at http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

Cazzy

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Cazzy wrote: »

My voice will be lost in this thread but I'm not going to stay silent.

If/when they implement this or confirm it, I will have to say goodbye.

I have an addictive personality (been sober for about 6 years now) and ESO is (or was) my escape, my joy. I love collecting mounts, pets and costumes but I try to be very conscious with what I'm buying. Items that hide behind gambling boxes takes my choice away. I can't choose it. I can't decide what I purchase.

This makes me unhappy.

When a game that made me feel such joy suddenly makes me feel unhappy, I can't support it.

I looked at the crown store showcase again after the boxes were announced and realised I had lost my excitement for the costume and mount being released for a "Limited Time". I was looking forward to them only yesterday.

Make as big or as little of a deal of this as you will, but you're asking for real world money.

I genuinely supported you. I've got fan t-shirts and have stayed up until 5am to watch streams and live shows. I feel like I've met a hero and all he turned out to be is a greedy man in an expensive suit.

Quoting myself because I think it's relevant.