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What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .3 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THIS IS HOW A GAME DIES.
Zenimax. You wanna earn my trust in a big way? Officially condemn this practice and scrap this idea. You dont wanna do that? I'm gonna advise everyone not to buy ***, not the nice DLC bundle, not the deals, not the cosmetics until you remove and condemn this practice.
I dont have much trust left but your pushin' it.
No its not
This is hyperbole.
Games don't die from lockboxes selling items you can't even trade with other players, esp items that are purely cosmetic.
yes it is, but its also been stated they will contain consumables and 'rare' crate only exclusive items, the only thing stated not included is Gear and Weapons.
I can see, as many others can, and have seen in other games, they will in the end contain the the most important gear progression items, which are classed as consumables, the upgrade mats ie: Alloys and Wax etc.
This also gives me a Deja vu feeling from other games which have done this as I have already noticed a decline in the drop rates of these items in game, and I farm a lot, every day and since last patch in my own experience there as been a noticeable difference
Slippery Slope Fallacy
I suggest you look it up.
Also unless you can provide actual Math for your last statement I bolded....You're not fooling anyone.
Not slippery slope. Inference based on experience.
Do you exit your house through the second-floor window? No, because previous experience has told you that, in all but the direst of emergencies, this isn't a good idea and the best plan is to walk out of the door as always.
Other people have seen what the introduction of lootboxes have done to other MMOs. Using that experience to suggest similar things might occur here is the opposite of a logical fallacy. It is reasoning.[/quote]
A slippery slope argument (SSA), in logic, critical thinking, political rhetoric, and caselaw, is a consequentialist logical device in which a party asserts that a particular result will probably (or even must inevitably) follow from a given decision or circumstance, without necessarily providing any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the likelihood of the assumed consequence. A slippery slope argument proposes that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom.[1] The strength of such an argument depends on the warrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect. This type of argument is sometimes used as a form of fear mongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. In a non-fallacious sense, including use as a legal principle, a middle-ground possibility is acknowledged, and reasoning is provided for the likelihood of the predicted outcome.
Like I said, Slippery Slope
By the way, the bolded part
We call that anecdotal fallacy
Stepping around the fact that your quote included terms for a "non-fallcious" use that I believe have been satisfied, we also have the following:
1) Rational arguments have been presented for the mechanism based on previous experience of similar mechanics.
2) People have been stating concerns with regards to what may happen, and are (in most of the considered arguments) not asserting that the outcome is inevitable.
Saying you don't want a mechanic included because you don't trust ZOS's long-term implementation of it is different to saying that the game will combust the moment ZOS adds it.
As for the anecdotal fallacy, that is the use of personal evidence to discount sound scientific measures provided. That has also not occurred. Where is your evidence that we are doing so? What numerical values do you have access to that present concrete evidence that Crown Crates will never lead to any of the possible outcomes that people have suggested?Edited by Iluvrien on August 21, 2016 4:39AM5 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, don't ever add these into the game.It's a bad system that's designed to take advantage of people with low impulse control. I'm all for them adding back in old crown store items (please come back, Mind-Shriven Skin...) but this system isn't the way to do it. Can't really see myself playing the game much longer if this is the way ZOS wants to act.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/1711 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
Uh... Battleborn's the one that went F2P. I could have sworn Overwatch was a boxed purchase, like most Blizzard titles.
Also, Funcom... *shudders*0 -
Esquire1980g_ESO✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »From the percentages I'm seeing, looks like ZOS might have a bit of a NGE on their hands. (67%)
Hope it works out better for ZOS heads than it did for Smed. Sony sold Smed right out from under him, the new owners sent him home, and he didn't get enough of crowd funding to do a 2D game.
Adding boxes to a game is nowhere NEAR or even in the same BALLPARK as the NGE was.....
It is if 67% look the other way. Unless of course they are as willing as Rubinfield was to get rid of the existing player base thinking they'll get a boat-load more.
Adding boxes to the game with pretty outfits and mounts and pets is not the same as changing the entire games combat system ENTIRELY and changing the game from 34 professions (classes) down to only 10. Please explain to me how someone riding around on a mount you cant get because you dont want to spend money is really breaking your game.
The NGE was quite literally game breaking, this is just fluff.
"Game breaking" is a matter of opinion. If you were there, you seen the SOE defence force come out in droves to back SOE at the time also via the forums. It came out later some of them were paid employees posting under an assumed name. Some of the ones that were actual later became "senators" in the NGE. I stayed for just about the entire 9 years, so while I surely didn't like it one bit, it just was not all that "game breaking" for me at least. What was game breaking was the 60-70% of the "goodbye" mails on my friends list. That one, SWG never rebounded from. You want that here?
It didn't and doesn't matter how large or even what the "CHANGE" was or is, it's the playerbase and how they handle or not handle it. SOE didn't get that thru their heads until T2 took over as Producer, and that was only after they did it all over again with the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade in the NGE. And another 1/2 to 2/3rds took off, yet again and again, not coming back from that one either.
You honestly bought into the SOE arguments of "It wasn't the change, it was how we handled it" by not giving notice to the players that the game was changing?2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.starkerealm wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
Uh... Battleborn's the one that went F2P. I could have sworn Overwatch was a boxed purchase, like most Blizzard titles.
Also, Funcom... *shudders*
Battleborn I dont think so. Evolve certainly did.
Overwatch still has the box purchase and even then people dont like it. If the game wasn't as stellar as it was you would practically see Blizzards stock droping. And trust me. ESO ain' anywhere near that level of stellar.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.
I did not expect you to understand the deeper meaning of what an addiction means for the person being addicted. That they do not have control over their behavior anymore, that it is an impulse control disorder.
Ok Helen Lovejoy; if you can't handle box sales in a video game you can't handle being on the internet in the first place. In fact its safe to say you can't handle being anywhere at any given time in the United States since you'll be tempted by "chance"
Children are just one side of the coin - those can get addicted to gambling when exposed at a young age - the other side of the coin are people which are already gambling addicted or have a low level of self-control when it comes to things they want, even if they cannot afford those and it would bring them into an existence crisis or their family.
Impulse control disorder (ICD) is a class of psychiatric disorders characterized by impulsivity – failure to resist a temptation, urge or impulse that may harm oneself or others.
I understand the deeper meaning of it; I'm laughing at how absurd you're being by trying to say we shouldn't have any lock boxes because someone with ICD might play this game. Completely ignoring the fact that a person with ICD would have to deal with a myriad of other things in life before he even got to the point of playing this game. Basically you're using the "Think of the Children" argument for limiting something. Can't have Cokes, To much sugar in them, Think of the Children.....Someone might become addicted to ***, Lets ban it for everyone, Think of the Children....
hell....ESO is pretty violent; It might cause some kid to go on a murdering spree....Lets remove all fighting from the game cause Think of the Children.
She transitioned from an historian to an expert lawyer and now is in the psychologist phase...in just 22 pages
This thread is hurting my sides lmao.
I have a bunch of other facettes as well - it is not even psychology, but psychiatry - ICD is a disorder, a medical condition and that means it belongs to psychiatry, and not psychology. I have some professional knowledge about addiction based processes in the signal pathways of the brain - I am an Bioinformatician. I had as well lessons in Jura (which is "law") in university, even this was just for 2 semesters, covering the basics of german BGB, HGB and laws related to employment, because I wanted to have some basic knowledge for when I will found my own company. Things like the history of the Rothschild family should be common knowledge - they were the dominating private bankers in the 19th century.
So what is to laugh about that?- I think you have no idea of any of this and that makes you trying to ridicule me.2 -
Shimmer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsIm not entirely sure how some are arriving at this is "P2W".
Guys, they said the boxes would contain 1 consumable you could already get in the cash shop.
The rest of the items you could potentially get out of the boxes are cosmetic, IE outfit, mudcrab, mount.
If you get multiple you can exchange these items for gems you can save up to buy something else. IE: its not like people can spend hundreds of dollars to get the rares and sell them on guild stores.
I dont see anyone making this big fuss about consumables in the cash shop, as that would be the ONLY thing that would be the "win" part of the p2w argument.
Cosmetic items arent going to increase your damage numbers. Having a super rare mount isnt going to increase your chances of downing that boss you couldnt kill before owning it. So how exactly is this p2w?
2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
Uh... Battleborn's the one that went F2P. I could have sworn Overwatch was a boxed purchase, like most Blizzard titles.
Also, Funcom... *shudders*
Battleborn I dont think so. Evolve certainly did.
Overwatch still has the box purchase and even then people dont like it. If the game wasn't as stellar as it was you would practically see Blizzards stock droping. And trust me. ESO ain' anywhere near that level of stellar.
Yeah, I knew about Evolve... still ambivalent about that one, though. But that's just more about the deranged DLC practices killing my interest up front, not because it was using lucky bags.
Though, I could have sworn Battleborn's getting moved over to F2P.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Im not entirely sure how some are arriving at this is "P2W".
Guys, they said the boxes would contain 1 consumable you could already get in the cash shop.
The rest of the items you could potentially get out of the boxes are cosmetic, IE outfit, mudcrab, mount.
If you get multiple you can exchange these items for gems you can save up to buy something else. IE: its not like people can spend hundreds of dollars to get the rares and sell them on guild stores.
I dont see anyone making this big fuss about consumables in the cash shop, as that would be the ONLY thing that would be the "win" part of the p2w argument.
Cosmetic items arent going to increase your damage numbers. Having a super rare mount isnt going to increase your chances of downing that boss you couldnt kill before owning it. So how exactly is this p2w?
Wait... they're expecting us to pay four bucks for a single consumable? Seriously? Ugh.2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.starkerealm wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
Uh... Battleborn's the one that went F2P. I could have sworn Overwatch was a boxed purchase, like most Blizzard titles.
Also, Funcom... *shudders*
Battleborn I dont think so. Evolve certainly did.
Overwatch still has the box purchase and even then people dont like it. If the game wasn't as stellar as it was you would practically see Blizzards stock droping. And trust me. ESO ain' anywhere near that level of stellar.
Yeah, I knew about Evolve... still ambivalent about that one, though. But that's just more about the deranged DLC practices killing my interest up front, not because it was using lucky bags.
Though, I could have sworn Battleborn's getting moved over to F2P.
Apparently rumors circulated but were untrue.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Prize boxes on Lord of the rings , Prize boxes in secret world , Age of Conan .. All dead after words .
http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/10/age-of-conans-revamped-item-shop-draws-ire-from-players/2 -
Shimmer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsEsquire1980g_ESO wrote: »Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »From the percentages I'm seeing, looks like ZOS might have a bit of a NGE on their hands. (67%)
Hope it works out better for ZOS heads than it did for Smed. Sony sold Smed right out from under him, the new owners sent him home, and he didn't get enough of crowd funding to do a 2D game.
Adding boxes to a game is nowhere NEAR or even in the same BALLPARK as the NGE was.....
It is if 67% look the other way. Unless of course they are as willing as Rubinfield was to get rid of the existing player base thinking they'll get a boat-load more.
Adding boxes to the game with pretty outfits and mounts and pets is not the same as changing the entire games combat system ENTIRELY and changing the game from 34 professions (classes) down to only 10. Please explain to me how someone riding around on a mount you cant get because you dont want to spend money is really breaking your game.
The NGE was quite literally game breaking, this is just fluff.
"Game breaking" is a matter of opinion. If you were there, you seen the SOE defence force come out in droves to back SOE at the time also via the forums. It came out later some of them were paid employees posting under an assumed name. Some of the ones that were actual later became "senators" in the NGE. I stayed for just about the entire 9 years, so while I surely didn't like it one bit, it just was not all that "game breaking" for me at least. What was game breaking was the 60-70% of the "goodbye" mails on my friends list. That one, SWG never rebounded from. You want that here?
It didn't and doesn't matter how large or even what the "CHANGE" was or is, it's the playerbase and how they handle or not handle it. SOE didn't get that thru their heads until T2 took over as Producer, and that was only after they did it all over again with the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade in the NGE. And another 1/2 to 2/3rds took off, yet again and again, not coming back from that one either.
You honestly bought into the SOE arguments of "It wasn't the change, it was how we handled it" by not giving notice to the players that the game was changing?
You obviously didnt have a jedi before this, nor did you hologrind for two years to get a jedi, only to have lightsabers handed out to anyone that downloaded the game. That, indeed was gamebreaking. Changing it essentially from being a sandbox to a themepark was indeed gamebreaking. They changed the entire game from what it was, the NGE was the very definition of game breaking. Having someone ride around in a super rare mount by spending money they earned and have the right to spend, is not.1 -
Mx13✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsRohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
2nd most played game on steam only losing to DOTA, wich has rng boxes too
Check your own post, you didnt say "there is no MMO with this practice doing well..."
Overwatch isnt F2P.
And all those MMOS failed because RNG boxes...yeah right lmao.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
Uh... Battleborn's the one that went F2P. I could have sworn Overwatch was a boxed purchase, like most Blizzard titles.
Also, Funcom... *shudders*
Battleborn I dont think so. Evolve certainly did.
Overwatch still has the box purchase and even then people dont like it. If the game wasn't as stellar as it was you would practically see Blizzards stock droping. And trust me. ESO ain' anywhere near that level of stellar.
Yeah, I knew about Evolve... still ambivalent about that one, though. But that's just more about the deranged DLC practices killing my interest up front, not because it was using lucky bags.
Though, I could have sworn Battleborn's getting moved over to F2P.
Apparently rumors circulated but were untrue.
Yeah, seems to be the case.0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gambleIm not entirely sure how some are arriving at this is "P2W".
Guys, they said the boxes would contain 1 consumable you could already get in the cash shop.
The rest of the items you could potentially get out of the boxes are cosmetic, IE outfit, mudcrab, mount.
If you get multiple you can exchange these items for gems you can save up to buy something else. IE: its not like people can spend hundreds of dollars to get the rares and sell them on guild stores.
I dont see anyone making this big fuss about consumables in the cash shop, as that would be the ONLY thing that would be the "win" part of the p2w argument.
Cosmetic items arent going to increase your damage numbers. Having a super rare mount isnt going to increase your chances of downing that boss you couldnt kill before owning it. So how exactly is this p2w?
Right now, it isn't. And whoever claims it is doesn't know what P2W means at all. Unless they are holding fashion contests, I guess. I mean, to each their own, right? :P
There are two issues:
1 - Many of us saw this kind of thing be introduced in other MMOs, being harmless at first and then devolving into offering some sort of advantage to the players who were lucky enough to get certain drops, even if the advantage came from selling the item and not from actually using it.
2 - ZOS said before that they were not going to introduce RNG Boxes. They went back on that and now are introducing RNG Boxes - and with limited items in them, no less. Now, they are saying "No P2W, ever". But how can we trust that they won't go back on that too?
(and of course there are personal issues that are different to everybody, like me being a self-centered little bee who wants the Ice Wolf to be a direct purchase because if it is locked behind a RNG Box I'll never get it)Edited by Abeille on August 21, 2016 4:53AMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.9 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsDoctordarkspawn wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
CSGO is currently involved in a massive class action lawsuit over skin gambling... not exactly the definition of "fine" I'd cite.
I'd say being one of the most played games in the world would be something i'd say is fine.
Hell SWTOR a game a lot of you malign on this forum makes money hand over fist......
Yeah, but no one is actually suing TOR in a class action for unspecified damages. TOR's also a terrible game, so it has that going for it.
Said it before, say it again. Stop responding to him, he has nothing constructive to say. Look at his post. he did not even vote.
Probably cause my opinion is more nuanced and can't be summed up a poll question in a badly written poll.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Prize boxes on Lord of the rings , Prize boxes in secret world , Age of Conan .. All dead after words .
http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/10/age-of-conans-revamped-item-shop-draws-ire-from-players/
Bonus points with TSW, because they actually started sticking augments in the grab bags (items that would literally make your equipped skills more powerful).1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
CSGO? Overwatch? hell even TF2 is doing just fine.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...
LMAO ! Counter Strike is doing well ? An that's a MMO to you ? lol Overwatch just came out and started F2P right ? These are your examples ? Pff
Look at comparable size games . Everything FunCom made , Everything . Star Trek Onlime , Star Wars the old Republic . Go look up the health of those that went down this same path . Look at honest current game reviews . Hell , log into one there free now . See if you can find a group in 20 minutes . Even the new zones are dead .
2nd most played game on steam only losing to DOTA, wich has rng boxes too
Check your own post, you didnt say "there is no MMO with this practice doing well..."
Overwatch isnt F2P.
And all those MMOS failed because RNG boxes...yeah right lmao.
The fact is MMOs don't do well with it . Shooters aren't in the same class . Also you are missing the point that the loot boxes always prelude further lack of development in "MMOS" and also are followed by F2P in MMOs . But it's ok , site shooter references , pretend there is no problem with this . Doesn't effect me if you don't believe millions of players over years . That's your prerogative lol2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsRohamad_Ali wrote: »Prize boxes on Lord of the rings , Prize boxes in secret world , Age of Conan .. All dead after words .
http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/10/age-of-conans-revamped-item-shop-draws-ire-from-players/
Ummm
all 3 of the games you just listed are still alive.
In fact F2P with things like Lockboxes are why they're still alive.
Ok, having read that link....I'm not sure how that really backs your argument.
Lockboxes wasn't the problem people were having most likely.
I'd say "Increased prices, the sale of high tier raid gear"probably was the main issue a lot had (Though i imagine some might of not like level 80 characters for sell but i honestly don't think it would of been an issue)Edited by Xsorus on August 21, 2016 5:03AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.And all those MMOS failed because RNG boxes...yeah right lmao.
It's not that the MMOs are, automatically, financially less successful. They're not. Cryptic is making money hand over fist, and lockboxes are probably the only thing keeping the lights on for Champions Online.
But, they do horrific things to the game itself. They change the nature of the game, not instantly, into something far more predatory.
It's not that I think ZOS shouldn't institute lockboxes because it will lead to financial ruin. And it's not because they said they'd never do that and have now backtracked. That affects my willingness to trust anything they say going forward, but it isn't the reason I think this is a bad idea.
This is a bad idea, because it will kill the game I actually enjoy. Sure, ESO will live on, but it won't be the ESO you and I played. It'll be something far tackier. Something far more profit minded. Something with far less integrity.
And, that matters. Maybe not to you. But it does to me. It will change how the game is developed. It will change the focus of the ZOS's resources. You can say, "but you can't see the future," and that's true, but I've seen this before, many times. I do know what's next. I don't like it.
It's not the wrong choice for them financially, but it is the wrong choice for the game.
But, they've made it anyway, and *** the rest of us, right?5 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsstarkerealm wrote: »And all those MMOS failed because RNG boxes...yeah right lmao.
It's not that the MMOs are, automatically, financially less successful. They're not. Cryptic is making money hand over fist, and lockboxes are probably the only thing keeping the lights on for Champions Online.
But, they do horrific things to the game itself. They change the nature of the game, not instantly, into something far more predatory.
It's not that I think ZOS shouldn't institute lockboxes because it will lead to financial ruin. And it's not because they said they'd never do that and have now backtracked. That affects my willingness to trust anything they say going forward, but it isn't the reason I think this is a bad idea.
This is a bad idea, because it will kill the game I actually enjoy. Sure, ESO will live on, but it won't be the ESO you and I played. It'll be something far tackier. Something far more profit minded. Something with far less integrity.
And, that matters. Maybe not to you. But it does to me. It will change how the game is developed. It will change the focus of the ZOS's resources. You can say, "but you can't see the future," and that's true, but I've seen this before, many times. I do know what's next. I don't like it.
It's not the wrong choice for them financially, but it is the wrong choice for the game.
But, they've made it anyway, and *** the rest of us, right?
Do they close the game down?
Because I consider that to be pretty bad... "Looks at WARs direction"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsI have to post my support for these. It's not that I'm a fan of them, however I do know they earn income for the game and I want the game to be around for a very long time.
1. As long as the items from the boxes cannot be sold for in game gold, they don't break the economy.
2. Cosmetic items which don't provide additional power for players that interfere with gameplay progression.
Particularly with housing coming (and the addition of some housing items in these boxes), this could be a great way for ESO to earn additional income.
Don't even get me started on the NGE line of comments. As a pre pub 9 Jedi, I can say this isn't even in the ball park nor is the fear mongering on the forums going to result in game changes significant enough to drive away such a large section of the player base.
Good business move on the part of the ESO team and I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't impact gameplay.4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Prize boxes on Lord of the rings , Prize boxes in secret world , Age of Conan .. All dead after words .
http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/10/age-of-conans-revamped-item-shop-draws-ire-from-players/
Ummm
all 3 of the games you just listed are still alive.
In fact F2P with things like Lockboxes are why they're still alive.
TSW's a ghost town, man. I don't know about LOTR, though I haven't heard complimentary things. Age of Conan was desolate the last time I logged, but it's been a few years.
Hell, Funcom's trying to make a survival sandbox game out of its assets, and already did use TSW's assets in a cheap spinoff game. I don't know how bad the situation is over there, but it's not good.1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Prize boxes on Lord of the rings , Prize boxes in secret world , Age of Conan .. All dead after words .
http://massivelyop.com/2016/06/10/age-of-conans-revamped-item-shop-draws-ire-from-players/
Ummm
all 3 of the games you just listed are still alive.
In fact F2P with things like Lockboxes are why they're still alive.
Unhu ... Sure they are . Alive with a handful of players left . Look at what happened before they left in droves . Lock boxes , F2P ... Deserted by all but the most die hard fans . Try getting a group together in those . You'll waste most of your night . I know because ai still have accounts in all of them and log in once in a blue moon to look at the wasteland that was once a great game filled with players .
The players in all of them asked constantly for bug fixes and decent content but got rewarded with fancy cloths and mounts in lock boxes instead . The smart left early .4 -
Mx13✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics
I have a bunch of other facettes as well - it is not even psychology, but psychiatry - ICD is a disorder, a medical condition and that means it belongs to psychiatry, and not psychology. I have some professional knowledge about addiction based processes in the signal pathways of the brain - I am an Bioinformatician. I had as well lessons in Jura (which is "law") in university, even this was just for 2 semesters, covering the basics of german BGB, HGB and laws related to employment, because I wanted to have some basic knowledge for when I will found my own company. Things like the history of the Rothschild family should be common knowledge - they were the dominating private bankers in the 19th century.
So what is to laugh about that?- I think you have no idea of any of this and that makes you trying to ridicule me.
Excuse me, english its not my first nor second language, thanks for the correction.
Sorry I just find funny that you are bringing all these "i am very smart" arguments into a videogame discussion, that medical condition one was just the most hilarious.
Also, sorry for he off-topic, my bad.Edited by Mx13 on August 21, 2016 5:05AM3 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.arkansas_ESO wrote: »It's a bad system that's designed to take advantage of people with low impulse control. I'm all for them adding back in old crown store items (please come back, Mind-Shriven Skin...) but this system isn't the way to do it. Can't really see myself playing the game much longer if this is the way ZOS wants to act.
I'm with you. I too would really like a way to get back some of those limited time items that I missed out on, and I agree that this really isn't the way to do it. This is the sort of choice which moves me from: "keeps sub casually even if only playing casually and logs on to buy new mounts (bought the Dro'ma'thra), maybe purchase extra crowns but will consistently give ZOS money" to unsubscribing and uninstalling.
I've been through this too many times before with other companies who made the exact same promises only to renege on them a few months later. Lockboxes are very much short term gains (whales) versus long term survival. I understand that companies need to make money, but engaging in predatory practices that exploit what are most often your most devoted and dedicated parts of the player base is wrong. If nothing else, it's a breach in trust between the player and the company.
And unless ZOS is planning to take ESO true F2P, there will be no new players or a much smaller influx to replace the ones this decision loses and will lose over time. Lockboxes do not maintain a stable playerbase. They are a toxic practice that slowly erodes the community. The games you see raking in the cash with them often have a high turnover rate/influx of players. They need it, because the players don't stay.
Short term monetary gains exchanged for substantial long term losses.
I don't want to be playing a game wherein the company who runs has transitioned into actively trying to exploit me, and it is coming. I don't believe any of the fears expressed in this thread are irrational. I've seen it happen. I've seen the mods in this thread making the same arguments that mods in other games have made before on other forums.
So, nope for me.2 -
captainwolfos✭✭✭✭Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmeticsTentative 'yes'
I'd only be cool with this if they're relatively cheap, and there's absolutely no way of getting duplicates. Also absolutely no pay to win, because that would be utterly skeevy.
That being said, getting a banker or something for like 500 crowns or whatever would be awesome, but at the same time would really suck for people who forked out £40 for them.
This is something I'm going to be watching carefully, as this could easily go very wrong (see: fricken SWTOR).Edited by captainwolfos on August 21, 2016 5:05AMEnemy of Boob Plates
For the Covenant! For the High King!
Solo Player | PVEer | Not caring about PVP since 1992
Spill some blood for me, dear brother1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, don't ever add these into the game.
I have a bunch of other facettes as well - it is not even psychology, but psychiatry - ICD is a disorder, a medical condition and that means it belongs to psychiatry, and not psychology. I have some professional knowledge about addiction based processes in the signal pathways of the brain - I am an Bioinformatician. I had as well lessons in Jura (which is "law") in university, even this was just for 2 semesters, covering the basics of german BGB, HGB and laws related to employment, because I wanted to have some basic knowledge for when I will found my own company. Things like the history of the Rothschild family should be common knowledge - they were the dominating private bankers in the 19th century.
So what is to laugh about that?- I think you have no idea of any of this and that makes you trying to ridicule me.
Excuse me, english its not my first nor second language, thanks for the correction.
Sorry I just find funny that you are bringing all these "i am very smart" arguments into a videogame discussion, that medical condition one was just the most hilarious.
Honestly... for people with a number of conditions, OCD comes to mind as another, these kinds of lucky bags are extremely predatory. I'm not even joking. They can really mess people up.
I know, there's the perspective of, "well, but they're crazy and it's funny," except, when you step back and see the actual damage caused to these people and their real lives, it's... it's tragic, really.
But, you know, anything for a buck, right?6
This discussion has been closed.