What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

MornaBaine

No, don't ever add these into the game.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Sadly, you are probably right. And as the servers slowly empty and more of us diehard subscribers stop paying altogether I'm sure they will think this strategy has still been a great success.

clayandaudrey_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MornaBaine wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Sadly, you are probably right. And as the servers slowly empty and more of us diehard subscribers stop paying altogether I'm sure they will think this strategy has still been a great success.

I quit paying awhile back because of cheating but swtor is chugging along with the same crap in it. Quit that game too so my two favorite franchises have ruined their MMO's for me. Back to single player RPGs I guess.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Yes. They are so absolutely convinced of the purity of their actions, that it is not even conceivable that the players will fail to accept this purity, once they can see it for themselves.

If not that, then we run into the parable of the bird and the daedra that a couple people laughed at.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Back to single player RPGs I guess.

One cannot always claim refuge in the single player RPG games. Bethesda Game Studios did not do so hot with Fallout 4, in my opinion. Overall, disappointed in Fallout 4. Except for the terminology and post-apocalypse setting, it was pretty much not a Fallout game at all. It was more of a Zombie Apocalypse Meets Minecraft game. Profitable, yes. Fallout, no.

clayandaudrey_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Yes. They are so absolutely convinced of the purity of their actions, that it is not even conceivable that the players will fail to accept this purity, once they can see it for themselves.

If not that, then we run into the parable of the bird and the daedra that a couple people laughed at.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Back to single player RPGs I guess.

One cannot always claim refuge in the single player RPG games. Bethesda Game Studios did not do so hot with Fallout 4, in my opinion. Overall, disappointed in Fallout 4. Except for the terminology and post-apocalypse setting, it was pretty much not a Fallout game at all. It was more of a Zombie Apocalypse Meets Minecraft game. Profitable, yes. Fallout, no.

Well that is good to know. At least I still have my table top D&D to turn to.

BurningLobster

Dear ESO staff,

I am the player you wanna target with these things. I like having "the best stuff" and I am not shy about impulse purchases. I have spent more money than I care to talk about on pets, mounts and costumes, though I did not regret my choices as I thought I would be playing this game for far longer. As of the time that I heard about these gamble boxes, I've stopped buying crowns. I am still a subscriber and I WANT to keep playing, but for my own sake, once those boxes go in, I'm gonna have to stop. When this goes live, you are going to lose me as a customer, and here is why;

I have been through this before with SW:TOR. I know where it leads and I know what the game turns into... I am sure some people will still have blast, but it ruins it for me. Why, you ask? Reason one is because looking cool matters. It matters to you, it matters to me and it matters to just about every player in the game to one degree or another... even if it's not something you care about overly much, chances are you care because you are a visual creature playing a visual game and you aren't gonna wanna look at something that doesn't personally please/amuse/satisfy you. Reason two is because I feel as though this will change the nature of the game development from one that attempts to expand upon a good game that happens to be a great product... into a product that has a good game somewhere in there.

To expand on point one, this is a social game, by it's design (Massive Multiplayer kinda implies that). In social interactions, something like 70% of the communication done is non-verbal... and so instead of body language, posture, facial expressions and etc. We have things like character design, personalities, emotes and outfits. To those of us who enjoy socializing and even RPing (in a ROLE PLAYING game, who woulda thunk it?) how we appear fills in as much of that 70% as possible. To us, those aren't "just" visuals... those are elements of our character, the same as the weapon set you use or the build you run.

Getting back to my larger point, I have stopped buying crowns because I am no longer feeling like this is a long term game for me. It changed it from something I could see myself playing for the next couple of years into something I could see myself playing for the next couple of months. I haven't maxed CP, I have barely touched PvP and I still have a lot of Craglorn to see... not to mention I haven't even started with the Veteran stuff, whatever the heck that stuff actually is. I still have lots of this game to see, and where before the announcement I was eager to see it all and get all manner of Achievements... now it feels like I am just waiting for something better to come along. I no longer feel like I am being treated like a customer and am instead being desired as a "whale". You don't want to sell me a quality product at set rate... and no amount of justification will ever excuse the fact that it is your desire to charge people more (on average) while giving them the same product.

There is the truth, in a nutshell. You aren't treating this like a game any longer. You are treating it like a product. You aren't trying to do anything with this move but maximize profit... and I am sure you will succeed. I am sure you'll make money and I am sure some customers will love running around on their exclusive mounts... in an ever more empty world. Content will be created with the idea of getting people to spend money on the boxes, as opposed to spending time out in the world. That's how it works when you place the idea of profit before everything... and I know this letter won't change a damned thing, but I wanted to add my voice to those who were and are upset. I enjoy this game and wanted to have it be my "go to" game for a while to come... but I've been through this once before and have no desire to go through it again.


- Another Customer

P.S. You stop this nonsense right now, and I'll happily remain a loyal customer... even more so than before as you were willing to listen!

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

BurningLobster wrote: »

Dear ESO staff,

I am the player you wanna target with these things.

[snip]

once those boxes go in, I'm gonna have to stop. When this goes live, you are going to lose me as a customer

Nice read. Nothing really to complain about, except what is quoted above.

When ZOS reads it, they see that the second statement contradicts the first statement. Therefore, the first statement is false.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

This isn't about paying the piper, it's about raw, unmitigated, greed.

This is not a game that was suffering for players, as much as some idiots in youtube comment sections wanted to cry about how the game was dying. ZOS was getting their money. People were paying for the new content, maybe they were buying it, maybe they were subscribing.

So, either ZOS was seriously undercharging for their dev costs, or someone higher up the food chain got greedy. I'm inclined to think it was the latter.

Except you know NOTHING about all the above.
You don't know how much the piper cost. You don't know how much income was made. You don't know how many people paid, via crowns or via subs.

You know NOTHING, Jon Snow.

anitajoneb17_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

I don't think they were expecting "us" (whatever "us" is) to stand up and cheer anyway. They knew it before. They don't do this to please us. They do it because they want to - or they were told to.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Wow, 105 pages. The force is strong with this thread.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

I don't think they were expecting "us" (whatever "us" is) to stand up and cheer anyway. They knew it before. They don't do this to please us. They do it because they want to - or they were told to.

... and, I am sure that if you dig through the Crown Store Wish List thread, you will find someone who suggested it.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

This isn't about paying the piper, it's about raw, unmitigated, greed.

This is not a game that was suffering for players, as much as some idiots in youtube comment sections wanted to cry about how the game was dying. ZOS was getting their money. People were paying for the new content, maybe they were buying it, maybe they were subscribing.

So, either ZOS was seriously undercharging for their dev costs, or someone higher up the food chain got greedy. I'm inclined to think it was the latter.

he who pays the piper calls the tune.

and the tune being called for is 'monetize'

raw, unmitigated, greed?

welcome to the world.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you want to play..... you pay. let's go back to the days when you paid by the hour.

Maybe not by the hour, but I am a proud member of an increasingly small minority that would gladly pay a required subscription to ESO if it meant absolutely no cash shop. All costumes, pets, and mounts available in the game for gold, or as rewards for quests and achievements. Barber shop function in the game for gold, or maybe as the result of gold and a task quest in the case of the Race/Class/Alliance/Name/etc changes.

I can't say whether ESO would be better today if they had stuck with a subscription, but I can say that the thought that they would spend more and more development effort on marginal Crown Store stuff would never even enter my head.

(Edit: As it is today, I question whether I want to pay a subscription to a game that is becoming more and more interested in marginal Crown Store stuff....)

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

he who pays the piper and all that. the people with the money want a return on their investment. that is not just the seed money back but a profit. the bigger the profit the better. for all you people spouting about 'greedy cash grabs' and so on, get real - no one with any sense puts money into something that isn't going to pay dividends... no one.

we had the sub model at the start and that did not deliver the goods.... so then we had the cash shop... and that is not making it. so now we have....random crates - will it work? idk

but someone somewhere thinks it may.

but think about this as an alternative... pay by the hour. you get a fully functional ever expanding world to play in and you pay for it as you play.... the investors get their return and the devs have resources to develop the game.

whats the sub now... 50p a day?

charge me 50p an hour.... it's cool.

As an investment this game is a fail, simply because it cannot generate the revenue required to make up for the long time of development and unsuccessful running time of the game. ESO has players and subscribers, but when you look at what the production costs are and the time it had to be invested without to produce any revenue and compare that what this game could deliver in the future with a normal business investment, then it is pretty clear, that nothing will make this game into a successful investment - nothing - especially not under the management of ZOS.

It might be, that Zenimax is trying to drain at least that money out of players, which they put in and a few percent on top of it, but that move is certainly not good for the player, because ZOS will have to squeeze the wallets of players even harder to get this done, and it will as well not be good for the game, because the focus will shift to more draining methods instead of gameplay, which comes at reasonable costs. This is IMO the beginning of the end and I do not want to be a part of that.

If this is really the beginning of the end (and I hope it will not be the end), let's at least hope that the cosmetic stuff (crafting styles, recipes, new mounts and pets, costumes) that they will create for the Crown Store will provide Bethesda with more raw material to craft the next main series installment.

ZOS is not Bethesda, Bethesda is very successful - ZOS is not, it probably has win, but seen from an investor's perspective it is a failure. It is said that the game costed 200 million US$ - a decent investment would make 400 million out of 200 million within 5-6 years - now look at ESO and take into account, that development started right after Oblivion came out - and then take into acount, that within the next 4.-5 years, ESO would have to generate another 400 million just to be on par with a normal investment of this size. It will never get this kind of money, never - it is a failed investment therefore.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

It is said that the game costed 200 million US$

"It is" can say anything it wants. ZOS has said it did not cost 200 million.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It is said that the game costed 200 million US$

"It is" can say anything it wants. ZOS has said it did not cost 200 million.

there you go with your facts again....

terminological inexactitudes and wild speculation are the order of the day here

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It is said that the game costed 200 million US$

"It is" can say anything it wants. ZOS has said it did not cost 200 million.

there you go with your facts again....

terminological inexactitudes and wild speculation are the order of the day here

WhiteCoatSyndrome

No, don't ever add these into the game.

@BurningLobster : That is a beautiful post.

BurningLobster

lordrichter wrote: »

BurningLobster wrote: »

Dear ESO staff,

I am the player you wanna target with these things.

[snip]

once those boxes go in, I'm gonna have to stop. When this goes live, you are going to lose me as a customer

Nice read. Nothing really to complain about, except what is quoted above.

When ZOS reads it, they see that the second statement contradicts the first statement. Therefore, the first statement is false.

*chuckles* Well, if I hadn't fallen for the "just one more..." trick in a few other games, I wouldn't be in a position to make the second statement. :P However, you do have a good point. I suppose what I ought to have said is that I am the type of player you want to target as I enjoy spending my money inside of the game.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

You know NOTHING, Jon Snow.

Really, that's the best you've got? Random Game of Throne references? I mean, I thought it was funny when people on my facebook feed were legitimately misspelling the characters' names with an E on the end, but here it just comes across as old and tired.

What we're seeing is just flat out greed. Probably not from ZOS, but from Zenimax itself. If you'd been paying attention, you might be able to make some educated guesses about what's been going on with ESO. But, that doesn't matter, because you've got Game of Thrones memes on your side. Just remember to keep spelling it, "Starke," with an E, because that's what GoT fans love. Having their characters randomly confused with ones from Warhammer and Magic: The Gathering.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you want to play..... you pay. let's go back to the days when you paid by the hour.

Maybe not by the hour, but I am a proud member of an increasingly small minority that would gladly pay a required subscription to ESO if it meant absolutely no cash shop. All costumes, pets, and mounts available in the game for gold, or as rewards for quests and achievements. Barber shop function in the game for gold, or maybe as the result of gold and a task quest in the case of the Race/Class/Alliance/Name/etc changes.

I can't say whether ESO would be better today if they had stuck with a subscription, but I can say that the thought that they would spend more and more development effort on marginal Crown Store stuff would never even enter my head.

(Edit: As it is today, I question whether I want to pay a subscription to a game that is becoming more and more interested in marginal Crown Store stuff....)

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

he who pays the piper and all that. the people with the money want a return on their investment. that is not just the seed money back but a profit. the bigger the profit the better. for all you people spouting about 'greedy cash grabs' and so on, get real - no one with any sense puts money into something that isn't going to pay dividends... no one.

we had the sub model at the start and that did not deliver the goods.... so then we had the cash shop... and that is not making it. so now we have....random crates - will it work? idk

but someone somewhere thinks it may.

but think about this as an alternative... pay by the hour. you get a fully functional ever expanding world to play in and you pay for it as you play.... the investors get their return and the devs have resources to develop the game.

whats the sub now... 50p a day?

charge me 50p an hour.... it's cool.

As an investment this game is a fail, simply because it cannot generate the revenue required to make up for the long time of development and unsuccessful running time of the game. ESO has players and subscribers, but when you look at what the production costs are and the time it had to be invested without to produce any revenue and compare that what this game could deliver in the future with a normal business investment, then it is pretty clear, that nothing will make this game into a successful investment - nothing - especially not under the management of ZOS.

It might be, that Zenimax is trying to drain at least that money out of players, which they put in and a few percent on top of it, but that move is certainly not good for the player, because ZOS will have to squeeze the wallets of players even harder to get this done, and it will as well not be good for the game, because the focus will shift to more draining methods instead of gameplay, which comes at reasonable costs. This is IMO the beginning of the end and I do not want to be a part of that.

If this is really the beginning of the end (and I hope it will not be the end), let's at least hope that the cosmetic stuff (crafting styles, recipes, new mounts and pets, costumes) that they will create for the Crown Store will provide Bethesda with more raw material to craft the next main series installment.

ZOS is not Bethesda, Bethesda is very successful - ZOS is not, it probably has win, but seen from an investor's perspective it is a failure. It is said that the game costed 200 million US$ - a decent investment would make 400 million out of 200 million within 5-6 years - now look at ESO and take into account, that development started right after Oblivion came out - and then take into acount, that within the next 4.-5 years, ESO would have to generate another 400 million just to be on par with a normal investment of this size. It will never get this kind of money, never - it is a failed investment therefore.

Just nitpicking here, but the past tense of "cost" is usually still, "cost."

We don't know how much ESO did cost to make, but it according to Paul Sage the original development budget was less than $200m.

Supposedly the decision to go from subscription to buy to play was motivated by Microsoft refusing to allow ESO to run without a XBL subscription. Given XB support has direct access to players' subscription status, it's also reasonable to infer they also pull in a hefty chunk of the subscription fees for that platform. (Incidentally, Sony is apparently the reason there are distinct servers for the different platforms.)

Incidentally, if you use Steamcharts as a base line community metric, ESO actually has remarkably stable numbers. (This is a small subset of the community, players who log in on Steam specifically, but it can be safely extrapolated out to the PC numbers as a whole with a reasonable margin for error. (It's possible that, for some reason, the steam community stats are non-representative of the larger population, but that's somewhat unlikely.))

So, we can scratch the game dying off the list. It's entirely possible that ZOS had unreasonable expectations for ESO from the start. Remember how TOR was both the fastest selling MMO in history at launch and still failing to meet expectations? ESO could be in the same boat, commissioned by Zenimax to pull in WoW numbers, or even just Skyrim numbers, which an MMO will basically never do. Even as they've pulled in a stronger community, they're still niche products.

A publisher who doesn't realize that could end up with unrealistic expectations... except, then we're back to greed. Because it requires the publisher to look at WoW, say, "I want one of those," and completely fail to understand that WoW is an extreme outlier, and not something you can replicate on a whim. Which is to say, greed in the absence of due diligence.

sadownik

@starkerealm

Few observations if you wont mind.

200 mln came from Zos tweet about securing that sum from investor. While it might be true that ESO didnt cost 200 mln itself, ZOS is new studio and its safe to say that the infrastructure and so on did reach at least that sum. It would be very unreasonable to think that the 200 mln from investor was not spent.

http://steamspy.com/app/306130 - 600 k copies sold on Steam. Less than 3.5 mln players on PC. It makes over 1/5 of all copies sold on steam. I dont know where you take your data from about number of players not launching from steam but im sure its not small subset of players.

While i agree game is not dying, its clearly not healthy. If not for TES that number would be much lower.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you want to play..... you pay. let's go back to the days when you paid by the hour.

Maybe not by the hour, but I am a proud member of an increasingly small minority that would gladly pay a required subscription to ESO if it meant absolutely no cash shop. All costumes, pets, and mounts available in the game for gold, or as rewards for quests and achievements. Barber shop function in the game for gold, or maybe as the result of gold and a task quest in the case of the Race/Class/Alliance/Name/etc changes.

I can't say whether ESO would be better today if they had stuck with a subscription, but I can say that the thought that they would spend more and more development effort on marginal Crown Store stuff would never even enter my head.

(Edit: As it is today, I question whether I want to pay a subscription to a game that is becoming more and more interested in marginal Crown Store stuff....)

I still pay my sub to FFXIV ARR and i have been playing ESO far more ( not so much now ) getting bored and with the lockboxes and a new update due for FFXIV due very soon where there will be 2 new dungeons /raid and a whole bunch of new weapons gear apartments etc .. yes the list goes on!! for free.. My guess is ESO would have been able to offer better content and more constant if they had stuck with a sub .. for what ever reason they either listened to fan boys that didnt want a sub who prob now have left the game for COD or there game was to much of a mess to charge anything .. ( spare me the psn and xbox live BS not the only game ppl play on the consoles that would of required the network) FFXIV is just over 3 years strong with a sub 6mill + players content every 3-4 months patches inbetween sometimes adding little things here and there .. ZOS had every chance to make this game a MASSIVE WINNER off the back of skyrim and the elderscrolls rpg there was a HUGE market there ( i remember playing skyrim and saying to my friends that were playing as well WOW what if this was a MMO wouldnt this be awesome) and yet they dropped the ball now everything is cash shopped and it takes to long to fix bugs and issues ... It feels when they dont fix things quickly ( well you dont have to sub to this broke mess so we dont have to fix things quick) but who would continually pay for a broke mess of a game?? ...shadows of the hist proves that they dont have the money to develop decent content and are cash grabbing off these lock boxes to raise some revenue!!

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

i cant wait to see how many spend 10000+ crowns to get f.ck all then cry robbed and dont buy them any more and watch ZOS come out with more inventive crap to scrounge money out of whales all the while offering half arsed patheticly done content because they cant raise revenue !!

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

wrote:

i cant wait to see how many spend 10000+ crowns to get f.ck all then cry robbed and dont buy them any more and watch ZOS come out with more inventive crap to scrounge money out of whales all the while offering half arsed patheticly done content because they cant raise revenue !!

Wow, drank a BIG ol swig of the Kool-Aid did we? You almost hit EVERY one of the soapbox talking points in one run on post.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you want to play..... you pay. let's go back to the days when you paid by the hour.

Maybe not by the hour, but I am a proud member of an increasingly small minority that would gladly pay a required subscription to ESO if it meant absolutely no cash shop. All costumes, pets, and mounts available in the game for gold, or as rewards for quests and achievements. Barber shop function in the game for gold, or maybe as the result of gold and a task quest in the case of the Race/Class/Alliance/Name/etc changes.

I can't say whether ESO would be better today if they had stuck with a subscription, but I can say that the thought that they would spend more and more development effort on marginal Crown Store stuff would never even enter my head.

(Edit: As it is today, I question whether I want to pay a subscription to a game that is becoming more and more interested in marginal Crown Store stuff....)

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

he who pays the piper and all that. the people with the money want a return on their investment. that is not just the seed money back but a profit. the bigger the profit the better. for all you people spouting about 'greedy cash grabs' and so on, get real - no one with any sense puts money into something that isn't going to pay dividends... no one.

we had the sub model at the start and that did not deliver the goods.... so then we had the cash shop... and that is not making it. so now we have....random crates - will it work? idk

but someone somewhere thinks it may.

but think about this as an alternative... pay by the hour. you get a fully functional ever expanding world to play in and you pay for it as you play.... the investors get their return and the devs have resources to develop the game.

whats the sub now... 50p a day?

charge me 50p an hour.... it's cool.

As an investment this game is a fail, simply because it cannot generate the revenue required to make up for the long time of development and unsuccessful running time of the game. ESO has players and subscribers, but when you look at what the production costs are and the time it had to be invested without to produce any revenue and compare that what this game could deliver in the future with a normal business investment, then it is pretty clear, that nothing will make this game into a successful investment - nothing - especially not under the management of ZOS.

It might be, that Zenimax is trying to drain at least that money out of players, which they put in and a few percent on top of it, but that move is certainly not good for the player, because ZOS will have to squeeze the wallets of players even harder to get this done, and it will as well not be good for the game, because the focus will shift to more draining methods instead of gameplay, which comes at reasonable costs. This is IMO the beginning of the end and I do not want to be a part of that.

If this is really the beginning of the end (and I hope it will not be the end), let's at least hope that the cosmetic stuff (crafting styles, recipes, new mounts and pets, costumes) that they will create for the Crown Store will provide Bethesda with more raw material to craft the next main series installment.

ZOS is not Bethesda, Bethesda is very successful - ZOS is not, it probably has win, but seen from an investor's perspective it is a failure. It is said that the game costed 200 million US$ - a decent investment would make 400 million out of 200 million within 5-6 years - now look at ESO and take into account, that development started right after Oblivion came out - and then take into acount, that within the next 4.-5 years, ESO would have to generate another 400 million just to be on par with a normal investment of this size. It will never get this kind of money, never - it is a failed investment therefore.

Just nitpicking here, but the past tense of "cost" is usually still, "cost."

We don't know how much ESO did cost to make, but it according to Paul Sage the original development budget was less than $200m.

Supposedly the decision to go from subscription to buy to play was motivated by Microsoft refusing to allow ESO to run without a XBL subscription. Given XB support has direct access to players' subscription status, it's also reasonable to infer they also pull in a hefty chunk of the subscription fees for that platform. (Incidentally, Sony is apparently the reason there are distinct servers for the different platforms.)

Incidentally, if you use Steamcharts as a base line community metric, ESO actually has remarkably stable numbers. (This is a small subset of the community, players who log in on Steam specifically, but it can be safely extrapolated out to the PC numbers as a whole with a reasonable margin for error. (It's possible that, for some reason, the steam community stats are non-representative of the larger population, but that's somewhat unlikely.))

So, we can scratch the game dying off the list. It's entirely possible that ZOS had unreasonable expectations for ESO from the start. Remember how TOR was both the fastest selling MMO in history at launch and still failing to meet expectations? ESO could be in the same boat, commissioned by Zenimax to pull in WoW numbers, or even just Skyrim numbers, which an MMO will basically never do. Even as they've pulled in a stronger community, they're still niche products.

A publisher who doesn't realize that could end up with unrealistic expectations... except, then we're back to greed. Because it requires the publisher to look at WoW, say, "I want one of those," and completely fail to understand that WoW is an extreme outlier, and not something you can replicate on a whim. Which is to say, greed in the absence of due diligence.

problem is ppl are in the mind set that free is better and they are DEAD WRONG! How many free to play games last and i mean really last?? it really is a fast hwy to death of a MMO for a few reasons..Im not sure i will agree with the game not dying i think you will find its a bordom thing add a few more call of dutys and other new titles and ESO will be scraping and screaming for subs, money and players!! lock boxes are slowly showing there begging.. World Of Warcraft was timed to perfection for a mmo internet was just starting to wake up around the world... The concept of mmos was a developing market ultima online and the likes of it was great but here comes WOW with better graphics and off the back of the warcraft games they were always going to win!! your never going to find another WOW never theres to many mmos in the market now..

Phinix1

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

snakester320 wrote: »

problem is ppl are in the mind set that free is better and they are DEAD WRONG!

Free is only better when it comes to basic human needs. When it comes to commodities, free generally equates to "poor quality." The inability of society to make this distinction between wants and needs is the reason for all the waste and suffering in this world.

I just popped into this discussion at page 105, and it seems to have veered off the original topic into "is the game dying and why" territory. I can't speak to the later as I don't have any hard statistics, though I did find the long requested return of the Soul Shriven horse ONLY available as a 5500 crown bundle where you basically buy IC AGAIN to get it, a little underhanded (ended up NOT buying it AGAIN because of the missing option to buy JUST the horse).

Also, the new 4-DLC bundle that includes the 2 DLC (Orsinium and Thieves Guild) which most people already bought, seemed a bit like farming the data to find new creative ways to clear out people's excess Crowns in preparation for housing, which was a bit disconcerting.

I was looking forward to housing but if it ends up costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars just to get everything that will be another thing I pass on. I hope they let us loot and craft housing items like Black Desert did (probably the ONE thing that game got right).

As for the OP, I'm not a fan of these boxes at all. I think the Crown store needs to put stuff up and LEAVE IT UP, and let people buy it when they want.

The whole marketing strategy this company employs where they pander to people that only value things when others don't get to have them is toxic, IMO.

"It is not enough to succeed; others must fail." -Ghengis Khan

Definitely a towering intellect worth aspiring to emulate.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Phinix1 wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

problem is ppl are in the mind set that free is better and they are DEAD WRONG!

Free is only better when it comes to basic human needs. When it comes to commodities, free generally equates to "poor quality." The inability of society to make this distinction between wants and needs is the reason for all the waste and suffering in this world.

I just popped into this discussion at page 105, and it seems to have veered off the original topic into "is the game dying and why" territory. I can't speak to the later as I don't have any hard statistics, though I did find the long requested return of the Soul Shriven horse ONLY available as a 5500 crown bundle where you basically buy IC AGAIN to get it, a little underhanded (ended up NOT buying it AGAIN because of the missing option to buy JUST the horse).

Also, the new 4-DLC bundle that includes the 2 DLC (Orsinium and Thieves Guild) which most people already bought, seemed a bit like farming the data to find new creative ways to clear out people's excess Crowns in preparation for housing, which was a bit disconcerting.

I was looking forward to housing but if it ends up costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars just to get everything that will be another thing I pass on. I hope they let us loot and craft housing items like Black Desert did (probably the ONE thing that game got right).

As for the OP, I'm not a fan of these boxes at all. I think the Crown store needs to put stuff up and LEAVE IT UP, and let people buy it when they want.

The whole marketing strategy this company employs where they pander to people that only value things when others don't get to have them is toxic, IMO.

"It is not enough to succeed; others must fail." -Ghengis Khan

Definitely a towering intellect worth aspiring to emulate.

i wanted the horse to would have payed 2500 crowns for it didnt like the skin looked bad with my characters so i ended up buying the cheaper imperial city dlc and left it .. not paying for things i dont want mixed in with things i do want!! This has been one of my biggest issues with these boxes 1. Its purely to rip more money of customers with the chance of getting something good.. 2. why do they not put things like that horse just for sale i prob would have spend 2500 for the horse .. instead of just the $19 i spent to resub for the month get my 1500 crowns and buy the cheaper dlc!!

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

MornaBaine wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Sadly, you are probably right. And as the servers slowly empty and more of us diehard subscribers stop paying altogether I'm sure they will think this strategy has still been a great success.

They are going to do that anyway when the next shiny new bauble comes out. There is very limited loyalty when it comes to gaming on a large scale. You will have a few die-hards, but the VAST majority will jump games the second something catches their eye.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I just have to note that we are now at 666 votes that match mine right now. And 183 of the other "no" votes. So while it may be just a few of us diehards still yakking about this subject... over 800 people agree with us that these are a bad idea. ZOS, whether you admit to it or not, PLEASE take note.

They are taking note. They are noting that the 400 or so yes voters will spend more for crown crates than all the no voters will spend on ESO+ and crowns put together. It will be glorious.

Sadly, you are probably right. And as the servers slowly empty and more of us diehard subscribers stop paying altogether I'm sure they will think this strategy has still been a great success.

They are going to do that anyway when the next shiny new bauble comes out. There is very limited loyalty when it comes to gaming on a large scale. You will have a few die-hards, but the VAST majority will jump games the second something catches their eye.

not much really to keep players here anyway is there?? last dlc was weak ( putting it lightly) and not to mention theres not been much released on consoles of late .. next few months is going to hurt ESO and ZOS.. top it off they want ppl to shell out for these boxes at a time when so many new titles are comeing out.. lmfao sure there not all monkeys managing ZOS??

Synfaer

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

This isn't about paying the piper, it's about raw, unmitigated, greed.

This is not a game that was suffering for players, as much as some idiots in youtube comment sections wanted to cry about how the game was dying. ZOS was getting their money. People were paying for the new content, maybe they were buying it, maybe they were subscribing.

So, either ZOS was seriously undercharging for their dev costs, or someone higher up the food chain got greedy. I'm inclined to think it was the latter.

he who pays the piper calls the tune.

and the tune being called for is 'monetize'

raw, unmitigated, greed?

welcome to the world.

It may be of interest to ZOS & others that many people play games to escape for a time this sort of crap in the 'real' world.

.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Synfaer wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

we are dealing with (possibly) two groups of people (could be more).... the ones who had this great idea for a game and the ones with the money to make it happen.

This isn't about paying the piper, it's about raw, unmitigated, greed.

This is not a game that was suffering for players, as much as some idiots in youtube comment sections wanted to cry about how the game was dying. ZOS was getting their money. People were paying for the new content, maybe they were buying it, maybe they were subscribing.

So, either ZOS was seriously undercharging for their dev costs, or someone higher up the food chain got greedy. I'm inclined to think it was the latter.

he who pays the piper calls the tune.

and the tune being called for is 'monetize'

raw, unmitigated, greed?

welcome to the world.

It may be of interest to ZOS & others that many people play games to escape for a time this sort of crap in the 'real' world.

.

It may be of interest to you that the real world always wins because you have to come back to it.

The reality is that they are a business and are here to earn money for investors. You can escape into the game, but they can't escape the bills or the investors. They real world doesn't go away just because you hide.