What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

SantieClaws

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

SantieClaws wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'll be the first to say that actual gameplay is the most important thing. But when a game with stellar graphics like ESO comes along, it is going to draw the kinds of players that also care about aesthetics. Those who want an immersive world (like many a TES fan who has spent countless hours downloading custom content for their game PRECISELY so they can get their characters to look the way they want them to) also want characters that, to them, look the part. Whether that be sexy, beautiful, fierce or downright terrifying. So costumes and cosmetics matter to these players. And why shouldn't they? Being concerned with aesthetics is no more "shameful" than being concerned with your position on the leaderboards or finding the best build for trials or PvP. There's no rules on how people should enjoy the game.

But here's the difference...
PvPers don't have to pay extra real cash for new PvP gear... or rebalacing of classes... or changes to racials... all things they ask for routinely. But if I want my character to have hair that doesn't look like it was styled with a weed whacker that'll be 20 bucks please! it is we, silly people who want more control over how our characters LOOK, that pay for more content for those who care about how the game plays. You might want to be a little nicer to us.

Khajiit is in agreement. The costumes, mounts and emotes. These are how we express ourselves in Tamriel. This is what many of us are here for. Yet to get experience Tamriel fully in this way then khajiit she must purchase extras. This one she hears the phrase 'just cosmetics' and that this has no effect on the 'game'.

For many travellers this is the 'game'.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Well said Santie Claws. As usual. This is an online RPG, for many of us coming from the role playing school our avatars are our reflections in game world.

For instance, any time I am given the option to play a dark elf or equivalent or even make a dark elf looking character I will do so as I have been playing a drow sword and board warrior since the early 90's. And look has just as much as stats to do with it. For me anyways.

MBite

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is in agreement. The costumes, mounts and emotes. These are how we express ourselves in Tamriel. This is what many of us are here for. Yet to get experience Tamriel fully in this way then khajiit she must purchase extras. This one she hears the phrase 'just cosmetics' and that this has no effect on the 'game'.

For many travellers this is the 'game'.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Well said Santie Claws. As usual. This is an online RPG, for many of us coming from the role playing school our avatars are our reflections in game world.

For instance, any time I am given the option to play a dark elf or equivalent or even make a dark elf looking character I will do so as I have been playing a drow sword and board warrior since the early 90's. And look has just as much as stats to do with it. For me anyways.

One of reason why I think people saying "Its just cosmetic" are wrong.
Some people doesnt like to run around with chars named "pwnswithtemplar" or other ugliness. I try to make khajiit chars with names and look as much lore friendly as I can. I have magicka sorcerer khajiit with destro staff and light armor. How much of racial khajiit passives do I use? None! I like to play as khajiits even if it means that Im weak even to do normal maelstrom arena.
And how about roleplayers? Do you want unique costume that makes you unique? Well bad luck butterfly! Buy 100+ crownboxes cause that costume has only 1% chance to drop. After losing more than 60 euros/dollars on useless food/potions, you can think about yourself if that was worth it. Poor roleplayer can right now just say that he lost money in gambling. But hey, just cosmetic right?

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

MBite wrote: »

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

Pretty much everyone's words... except maybe ZOS. We will see when they have them on PTS, but there is no guarantee that the RNG will remain the same when it goes Live. Part of what they are going to do on PTS is validate the RNG values and adjust accordingly.

Esquire1980g_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

MBite wrote: »

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

Pretty much everyone's words... except maybe ZOS. We will see when they have them on PTS, but there is no guarantee that the RNG will remain the same when it goes Live. Part of what they are going to do on PTS is validate the RNG values and adjust accordingly.

As some1 who runs a MMORPG server now (again), I can certainly tell you that to change the drop rate on just about anything in a game, takes about 10 secs and amounts to just about changing 1 number. And, it's all server side so no patch notes/download needed or required.

Blackbird71

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

The problem is that when you remove the development of quality content as the primary factor in the revenue stream, you remove any incentive to actually produce quality content. The end result (as has been seen in other games) is usually lackluster "expansions", and a continual production of new bugs without any significant progress in bug fixes (new or old), simply because the quality of the product no longer matters. When the cost of maintaining or improving the quality of a product is negatively disproportionate to the increase in revenue such quality would provide, specifically because there are other less resource-intensive means of producing greater revenue, what is the motivation to focus on quality?

In theory, this is correct, and there may be some interest inside of a studio to divert attention away from a game that has a successful gamble box. However, no one buys games based on how wonderful the gamble boxes are. Gamble boxes are not exactly selling points, otherwise when you visited an MMO website, it is all they would be talking about. You need to have a game, and it has to be good enough to sell. It is the hook to get players in to buy gamble boxes and it is what keeps the players around buying them.

Yes, marketing can do a lot with a cold turd, but it takes a lot less effort if that is not what you are trying to sell.

There's no theory about it; it has already been observed to happen exactly like this in other games that have gone the same route. Yes, you need a decent game to start with to initially draw in customers, but in games where such boxes are added as a later feature, they always seem to coincide with a significant decline in quality of the game.

The only question that remains to be answered is whether there is any evidence or reason that ESO will somehow follow a different path than other games that have gone before. So far, I'm not seeing anything to suggest that this will be the case, and I for one am not investing any further in their game until they prove otherwise.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

MBite wrote: »

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

Pretty much everyone's words... except maybe ZOS. We will see when they have them on PTS, but there is no guarantee that the RNG will remain the same when it goes Live. Part of what they are going to do on PTS is validate the RNG values and adjust accordingly.

As some1 who runs a MMORPG server now (again), I can certainly tell you that to change the drop rate on just about anything in a game, takes about 10 secs and amounts to just about changing 1 number. And, it's all server side so no patch notes/download needed or required.

One would think. For some reason, I get the impression that it is never that easy for ZOS.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

lordrichter wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

MBite wrote: »

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

Pretty much everyone's words... except maybe ZOS. We will see when they have them on PTS, but there is no guarantee that the RNG will remain the same when it goes Live. Part of what they are going to do on PTS is validate the RNG values and adjust accordingly.

As some1 who runs a MMORPG server now (again), I can certainly tell you that to change the drop rate on just about anything in a game, takes about 10 secs and amounts to just about changing 1 number. And, it's all server side so no patch notes/download needed or required.

One would think. For some reason, I get the impression that it is never that easy for ZOS.

just change the seed.... it is pseudo random after all..... well, probably.

MisterBigglesworth

No, don't ever add these into the game.

On a somewhat related note, this was a refreshing read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/09/08/dragoncon-2016-mark-jacobs-on-trolls-subscriptions-and-camelot-unchained/

Here you have a developer who says he'd rather shut his game down before resorting to F2P nickle-and-diming tactics:

“It cheapens all of us at the end of the day. It cheapens the devs, it cheapens the designers who want to do the right thing.”

Obviously we're always skeptical (ZOS used similar rhetoric back in 2013/2014) and whether the CU devs actually end up walking the walk remains to be seen. I can tell you one thing though: Mark Jacobs has been super transparent and blunt with the community.

JamilaRaj

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

On a somewhat related note, this was a refreshing read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/09/08/dragoncon-2016-mark-jacobs-on-trolls-subscriptions-and-camelot-unchained/

Here you have a developer who says he'd rather shut his game down before resorting to F2P nickle-and-diming tactics:

“It cheapens all of us at the end of the day. It cheapens the devs, it cheapens the designers who want to do the right thing.”

Obviously we're always skeptical (ZOS used similar rhetoric back in 2013/2014) and whether the CU devs actually end up walking the walk remains to be seen. I can tell you one thing though: Mark Jacobs has been super transparent and blunt with the community.

*Gasps!*
But...but....that is a treason! I would not be surprised if he wound up stuffed into a scambox after talks like that, P2W mafia does not like traitors.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JamilaRaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

On a somewhat related note, this was a refreshing read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/09/08/dragoncon-2016-mark-jacobs-on-trolls-subscriptions-and-camelot-unchained/

Here you have a developer who says he'd rather shut his game down before resorting to F2P nickle-and-diming tactics:

“It cheapens all of us at the end of the day. It cheapens the devs, it cheapens the designers who want to do the right thing.”

Obviously we're always skeptical (ZOS used similar rhetoric back in 2013/2014) and whether the CU devs actually end up walking the walk remains to be seen. I can tell you one thing though: Mark Jacobs has been super transparent and blunt with the community.

*Gasps!*
But...but....that is a treason! I would not be surprised if he wound up stuffed into a scambox after talks like that, P2W mafia does not like traitors.

Unfortunately, just like with politician's and the truth, we say we want the facts... But when they are delivered a large portion of the community goes berserk.

snakester320

No, don't ever add these into the game.

MBite wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is in agreement. The costumes, mounts and emotes. These are how we express ourselves in Tamriel. This is what many of us are here for. Yet to get experience Tamriel fully in this way then khajiit she must purchase extras. This one she hears the phrase 'just cosmetics' and that this has no effect on the 'game'.

For many travellers this is the 'game'.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Well said Santie Claws. As usual. This is an online RPG, for many of us coming from the role playing school our avatars are our reflections in game world.

For instance, any time I am given the option to play a dark elf or equivalent or even make a dark elf looking character I will do so as I have been playing a drow sword and board warrior since the early 90's. And look has just as much as stats to do with it. For me anyways.

One of reason why I think people saying "Its just cosmetic" are wrong.
Some people doesnt like to run around with chars named "pwnswithtemplar" or other ugliness. I try to make khajiit chars with names and look as much lore friendly as I can. I have magicka sorcerer khajiit with destro staff and light armor. How much of racial khajiit passives do I use? None! I like to play as khajiits even if it means that Im weak even to do normal maelstrom arena.
And how about roleplayers? Do you want unique costume that makes you unique? Well bad luck butterfly! Buy 100+ crownboxes cause that costume has only 1% chance to drop. After losing more than 60 euros/dollars on useless food/potions, you can think about yourself if that was worth it. Poor roleplayer can right now just say that he lost money in gambling. But hey, just cosmetic right?

One of the things that ZOS didnt yet mentioned is what is the percentage to get the cosmetic item. They only said that there is "a chance", which in my words means "you might get only useless potions and thats all!".

i can assure everyone that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TELL ANYONE THE ODDS but ITS STACKED HIGHLY IN THERE FAVOR!!

Cakery

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'm sure it has been said numerous times throughout this 102 page thread, but I think it's worth saying again;

I'd rather just buy what I want instead of gamble for it.

Random boxes are, in my opinion, a very low, cheap and cruel tactic to grab extra cash from players such as myself that enjoy cosmetics and have been happy to support the game through subscription and/or through the cash shop rotations.

With the cash shop the way it is now, I just personally don't see how or why random boxes are necessary.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidious. You have something in your face, and if you want to clear it, you need to pay cash, or delete it. Bonus points if it actually chews up your drop pool, like Star Trek Online did.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidous.

lordrichter wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

jeevin

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidious. You have something in your face, and if you want to clear it, you need to pay cash, or delete it. Bonus points if it actually chews up your drop pool, like Star Trek Online did.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidous.

lordrichter wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

Free boxes are only, the by the smallest degree, worse than what Zos is implementing here. The only difference is you getting the box in your inventory? But I'm sure Zos will be advertising hard as you log in "NEW TO THE CROWN STORE! THE CHANCE TO GET THIS RAINBOW UNICORN!".

Mortehl

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Thea random crates are disheartening. I like some of the new mounts data mined from the new content. If they're what's locked exclusively into loot crates, it will make me reconsider crown store purchases. For reference, I typically buy a 5500 crown pack every month for new silly stuff and repair kits, scrolls, et cetera.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidious. You have something in your face, and if you want to clear it, you need to pay cash, or delete it. Bonus points if it actually chews up your drop pool, like Star Trek Online did.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidous.

lordrichter wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

Kendaric

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Xabien wrote: »

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

Exactly.
Some may consider the crown crates to be the lesser of two evils, when in reality there is no difference between selling the crates in the store and having them drop in-game and sell a key in the store.
Those boxes are just a despicable practice, regardless of their implementation.

Palidon

I like to see what I am buying. So no I don't have any use for the what's behind Door No 1, 2, 3 concept introduced by this game using lock boxes. As a Stamina Nightblade I tried it once and wasted over 100k TV trying to get the armor and wpn pieces I needed to complete the Vicecannon of Venom Set. Ended up getting several Vicecannon staffs that I could not use, Vicecannon rings and necklaces that were Arcane and armor pieces that had traits that were worthless. Never again.

Enodoc

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Xabien wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidious. You have something in your face, and if you want to clear it, you need to pay cash, or delete it. Bonus points if it actually chews up your drop pool, like Star Trek Online did.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidous.

lordrichter wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

There is a bit of a difference, based on perception and physical presence. Having a box that you can't open is less easy to ignore, because it's right there.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

snakester320 wrote: »

i can assure everyone that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TELL ANYONE THE ODDS but ITS STACKED HIGHLY IN THERE FAVOR!!

No, they won't tell us. They have no reason to tell us. The frame of mind that would lead them to do that would eventually lead them to the conclusion that there are better ways to sell special and discontinued items from the store.

Rykmaar

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I'd just like to point out (again) that this game has no PvE seasons, no PvP seasons, but this cash shop sure has seasons and will have unique seasonal "rewards."

Lockboxes are simply cruel and pray upon those among us that cannot control gambling impulses. This is made even more despicable when you think of them putting unique items into them.

Someone else, I forget who, said it best. The implementation of lockboxes tends to coincide with a loss in quality. I think many of us have felt or worried about a loss in quality for some time. This discussion is making me realize that it has already begun.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Xabien wrote: »

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

If that is the case, then the entire Crown Store is evil, and I don't buy that right now. Yes, the Crown Store can be used for evil, and yes the Crown Crates open new doors that lead to evil. ZOS has shown no reluctance to walk right up to the line. This is why I think they will eventually turn to evil. It is possible that the evil is already in them and is merely being held in restraint.

The Crown Store is not yet evil because it can still be ignored. The temptation can be kept at bay and the decision to use it can be a rational one. The Crown Crates do make it harder, and that is ZOS walking up to that line, again.

Crates that drop in the game and require a purchased key are more evil. This is not the same thing as what ZOS is doing, and @Enodoc sums it up nicely. It is all about how easy it is to ignore.

I am not unaware of the anecdote about the frog and the boiling water.

JamilaRaj

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Enodoc wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidious. You have something in your face, and if you want to clear it, you need to pay cash, or delete it. Bonus points if it actually chews up your drop pool, like Star Trek Online did.

Emmeric1964 wrote: »

Ugh, I support lockboxes that drop in-game. I do not support lottery boxes only available in the store. I never buy those. Waste of money.

If you mean ones that drop as consumables you can simply open, then sure. If you're talking about ones that require you to then cough up cash or they sit there chewing up an inventory slot, then that's far worse, and much more insidous.

lordrichter wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

The problem with the lockboxes that drop is that usually it is required to buy a key to open them.

This is the way a dwavern friend called Rosiebelle told khajiit that boxes work in a place called Middle Earth. The friend liked this even less because once you had the boxes there was a greater feeling of curiosity about what may be inside the box yes. Therefore the greater compulsion to buy the key.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

The free boxes, paid keys, is a level of "evil" above what ZOS is implementing, which is a small measure of comfort. This seems to be an aspect of the boxes that they don't like, as they have said in interviews, Q&A sessions, and this is what they claim that Gina was specifically talking about back in 2015.

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

There is a bit of a difference, based on perception and physical presence. Having a box that you can't open is less easy to ignore, because it's right there.

Yeah. They should make both scamboxes and keys non-free, but occasionally give one or another as "reward" for something. That would motivate gullible payers to go any pay for the other part, thinking how they are ripping ZOS off by paying only half.
They could even put a timer on these "rewards", so they would have to be used before XY, or else disappear (thanks Ramin for the tip).

lordrichter wrote: »

The Crown Store is not yet evil because it can still be ignored.

Ignoring evil is evil too.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Just remember the conditional element in that phrase. "If the boxes fail to sell, then..." Not, an automatic assumption that this is where they must be headed.

Also, I have seen this exact transition from grab bags to boxes in the past, so it's not without precedent. Not from ZOS, obviously. But, it's worth remembering, this isn't the first time a developer has grafted lucky bags into an existing game.

nimander99

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Just remember the conditional element in that phrase. "If the boxes fail to sell, then..." Not, an automatic assumption that this is where they must be headed.

Also, I have seen this exact transition from grab bags to boxes in the past, so it's not without precedent. Not from ZOS, obviously. But, it's worth remembering, this isn't the first time a developer has grafted lucky bags into an existing game.

This whole thing is super depressing, I've been paying more attention to this negative content than I have to the game... I've barely played since this was announced. Like I said, super depressing.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Just remember the conditional element in that phrase. "If the boxes fail to sell, then..." Not, an automatic assumption that this is where they must be headed.

Also, I have seen this exact transition from grab bags to boxes in the past, so it's not without precedent. Not from ZOS, obviously. But, it's worth remembering, this isn't the first time a developer has grafted lucky bags into an existing game.

This whole thing is super depressing, I've been paying more attention to this negative content than I have to the game... I've barely played since this was announced. Like I said, super depressing.

You 'n me both.

ItsGlaive

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Xabien wrote: »

Actually guys, they're the exact same evil, the slight difference in implementation is pure window dressing, the end goal - wringing more coin out of customers for little return - is exactly the same.

If that is the case, then the entire Crown Store is evil, and I don't buy that right now. Yes, the Crown Store can be used for evil, and yes the Crown Crates open new doors that lead to evil. ZOS has shown no reluctance to walk right up to the line. This is why I think they will eventually turn to evil. It is possible that the evil is already in them and is merely being held in restraint.

The Crown Store is not yet evil because it can still be ignored. The temptation can be kept at bay and the decision to use it can be a rational one. The Crown Crates do make it harder, and that is ZOS walking up to that line, again.

Crates that drop in the game and require a purchased key are more evil. This is not the same thing as what ZOS is doing, and @Enodoc sums it up nicely. It is all about how easy it is to ignore.

I am not unaware of the anecdote about the frog and the boiling water.

The crown store itself is a different matter entirely. It's transparent and you can choose exactly what to purchase. We can't start going round in circles here. Lockboxes hide the things you want, and through rng cause you to actually spend more on obtaining them. They're a shady practice to wring more money out of you than the traditional transactional method. Clear difference.

Bouldercleave

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

nimander99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Free boxes with paid keys is a level of evil above what ZOS is currently planning to implement. If the boxes don't sell, I have absolutely zero doubt these things will get dropped in game.

I don't disagree with you, but it is not what they are] implementing. I have a reasonable confidence that future revisions of the Crown Crates will be much more evil.

However, it is hard to judge something based on future actions, which is why I still say YES to these. Although I think I am pretty sure the road these people are traveling, they can, at any moment, change course. They are not there, yet. I would feel a lot more confident if they would demonstrate they are not evil rather than just asking me to trust them, and saying that my thoughts are "baseless fear".

Just remember the conditional element in that phrase. "If the boxes fail to sell, then..." Not, an automatic assumption that this is where they must be headed.

Also, I have seen this exact transition from grab bags to boxes in the past, so it's not without precedent. Not from ZOS, obviously. But, it's worth remembering, this isn't the first time a developer has grafted lucky bags into an existing game.

This whole thing is super depressing, I've been paying more attention to this negative content than I have to the game... I've barely played since this was announced. Like I said, super depressing.

If something as trivial as this is as you put it "super depressing" and making you feel SO bad you just can't log in, then maybe it's time to move on.

However; if something this trivial is making you depressed, there are much bigger issues that need to be addressed. Way too much thin skin in the world today.