Icereach PC NA (Mulaamnir/Kyne/BWB NA PC - Final)

Valen_Byte

They lifted part of the NDA so that we can talk about the base game patch, ie: existing class changes.

I have played my MagDK on the pts. It feels no different than the live server the way I play my DK. Relying on Battleroar is not something I have ever done so its really not a big deal to me at all. I dont think Ive ever thought to myself "oh *** I better leap on that guy cause I need resources."

The changes to OS wont change anything for me either. As I use OS the DB one after the other anyway. There is no pvp server on the PTS at this point so I have not tested it in pvp. In pve, its just fine. As Im sure it will be in cyro.

My max stats and regen on the PTS arent all that dif from live either. I lost about 200 mag regen and thats about it. Overall, Im not worried about my DK. Maybe I have been playing it wrong all along. Either way, my DK will be just fine.

Stridig

It's running!

ColoursYouHave

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

This thread has been pretty quiet again. Are we not all friends any more? What are you all up to?

Hey all... Haven't been around much, work has been tough around tax time and the weather has been a little better so I've been on my bicycle a bit more. Also baseball started and hockey playoffs! Hopefully you all will have more opportunity to kill me, though.

My available free time drops drastically when baseball starts up as well. What team(s) do you follow, @Lumsdenml?

Azurulia

Adenoma wrote: »

I would not use 10+ people having to kill a tank emp a good measure of what healing is or is not overpowered. When I was emp on a light armor DK it would take similar numbers. When I was emp on a heavy armor DPS magDK I solo farmed PUGz (not anything to diminish what they do, I was lucky and nobody negated me) on top of a resource. That was pre-dragonsblood buff and only using inhale.

For stamDK vigor is overpowered at its current cost, but the fundamental idea that their healing is overpowered is grossly wrong. Even more so, every class has their own inherent strengths and self-heals and sustain via battleroar are two of the DKs.

First they took our wings, then our heals, and now we have a battle squeak.

Would 22 people and a tell from another faction member laughing about it after the fact that it took a 22 man raid to kill 1 guy be a better measure? (Excuse my smart-ass self.)

However you contradict yourself with stating the healing from Vigor is OP with a stamDK, but that fundamentally DK's self healing is not OP. This is because the same rule of major mending can be applied to any DK self healing ability. Be it inhale, dragon blood, molten whip, burning embers, or battle roar. All it requires is a bit of awareness of buff and debuff timers and general timing.

A good DK is a force to be reckoned with.

...now if only I was a good DK.

TipsyDrow

Valen_Byte wrote: »

They lifted part of the NDA so that we can talk about the base game patch, ie: existing class changes.

I have played my MagDK on the pts. It feels no different than the live server the way I play my DK. Relying on Battleroar is not something I have ever done so its really not a big deal to me at all. I dont think Ive ever thought to myself "oh *** I better leap on that guy cause I need resources."

The changes to OS wont change anything for me either. As I use OS the DB one after the other anyway. There is no pvp server on the PTS at this point so I have not tested it in pvp. In pve, its just fine. As Im sure it will be in cyro.

My max stats and regen on the PTS arent all that dif from live either. I lost about 200 mag regen and thats about it. Overall, Im not worried about my DK. Maybe I have been playing it wrong all along. Either way, my DK will be just fine.

I'm curious, did you try a hardmode vet dungeon with that DK? If not go do one with a templar healer and a stamDK for the other dps. let me know how that turns out for ya. My guess is you will then feel the full result of all the nerfs come together in one big WTF did Zos do to group gameplay??? But ...go see for yourself. In solo PVE....anything is viable even builds purposely made to be bad...

vamp_emily

Stridig wrote: »

It's running!

Turned out a little better than I thought it would

Stridig

vamp_emily wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

It's running!

Turned out a little better than I thought it would

I'm having trouble with the rgb lighting still but other than that it's beautiful. I will post a pic with all the glass installed on the case in a bit. I think it looks great.

vamp_emily

@Valen_Byte

Hop on a templar healer and do a few vet dungeons and maybe a trial and get back with us

Mjollo

I would have been okay with the nb changes until they touched Siphon Attacks. We already have so many ways to regain health through class abilities including the other morph, Leeching Strikes so why would we ever need to trade resources for more health?
Every class in the new patch is starting to blend in gameplay and i dont like it. At this point, everyone is now a resource vampire with zos pretty much giving every class a vampiric ability that requires you to attack a target constantly in order to gain resources back. I understand that they dont want roles to be limited by classes but that's what gives each class a value. Sure nightblade healers were really cool hybrid healers, sorc healers were fun to change things up a bit and even magicka dk healers were amazing when i made one but the reason templar healers were valuable was that they were given dedicated heals and synergies that allowed allies to cooperate in the return of their own resources.
I'll live through it and I'm not gonna be to a point of making a public quitting video to grab attention but i don't think I'll ever fully endorse class blending. At this rate, they might as well get rid of classes all together.

Valen_Byte

Geez, Back under my rock I go. Lol

ColoursYouHave

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Geez, Back under my rock I go. Lol

Don't worry Valen, your opinion here is welcomed, even if people don't agree with it!

Personally, I don't think the resource changes are as bad as people make it out to be. I haven't really seen it in this thread, but elsewhere people are acting as though this is the apocalypse. Playing my BWB Stam Sorc on the PTS, I feel the resource management nerfs, but it really isn't that bad. I think it is definitely something that people will be able to adapt to. Plus, it is only the first week of the PTS, and to my understanding this will be a longer PTS than previous updates (admittedly, I have no idea when Morrowind launches), so there is still plenty of time for ZOS to tweak things.

W0lf_z13

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Geez, Back under my rock I go. Lol

Don't worry Valen, your opinion here is welcomed, even if people don't agree with it!

Personally, I don't think the resource changes are as bad as people make it out to be. I haven't really seen it in this thread, but elsewhere people are acting as though this is the apocalypse. Playing my BWB Stam Sorc on the PTS, I feel the resource management nerfs, but it really isn't that bad. I think it is definitely something that people will be able to adapt to. Plus, it is only the first week of the PTS, and to my understanding this will be a longer PTS than previous updates (admittedly, I have no idea when Morrowind launches), so there is still plenty of time for ZOS to tweak things.

in june

Mjollo

Yeah. They have plenty of time to tweak things as they go but some people are being a bit more crazy about this than they need to be. ZOS makes big changes on purpose so they can go up from there and slowly bring it to the right level based on player feedback. There's too many "wah i don't like this" threads and not enough "this isn't going to work and here's why:" threads.

W0lf_z13

i mean... yeah the patch notes worry me a bit.... but at the same time... it just means i have to re think builds again and play differently ... too many people afraid of change and not wanting to figure out a new way to play

Lumsdenml

@Adenoma , I think you killed me about 6 times today!

Vyle_Byte

To be fair, @Valen_Byte did say he didn't feel his dk would be affected much bc of the way he plays it. And hes talkin pvp, not hardmode vet dungeons, which we don't even really do often. Also, he doesn't have a healer so he cant just go run a trial with one lol! He does have a much more optimistic outlook on this patch than most, myself included. However part of that is bc this is only the first week and @Mjollo hit the nail on the head, they do drastic things first sweep and most of the time they do consider feedback and tune it down. This is why its so important that we do give constructive feedback.

Also, we have been thru many drastic changes in this game since it launched, this is just one more time they are turning things upside down on us, we will adjust, one way or another. Does it look grim? Yes, I think a bit but that's partly bc we have all fine tuned our builds and that *** takes time, it can be a bit discouraging with such drastic changes and no one wants this game to turn into Heavy Attack Online... boring!

I know I have definitely been upset with Templar changes, the removal of half a thing a skill does - told it was over performing and then to see that same thing given to the new class really really pisses me off, more than resource changes. Making me despise their new class, that's for sure. Atm I'm more #screwyourwarden than anything.

Best we can do is continue to give our feedback and see what happens. Change, can be good for a game, gutting classes, making them less unique, can be disastrous.

TipsyDrow

Of course Valens opinion is welcome here and for him that's the experience he got on the pts. Honestly on an individual lvl unless you're a stam dk it wont be hard to adapt. The way the CP changes were done actually gives a net increase in damage of 15% acrooss the board with being able to now increase dots and direct damage attacks along with the mighty and elemental passives so things will die faster. The big glaring issue with sustain being nerfed in every facet of the game and some group synergies/buffs also being nerfed is most noticeable and it is a glaring issue is in group play where cooperation and synergies had a huge impact. The homogenization of class skills is also more then worrying it's downright sad. I have other huge gripes with other things but...NDA. I think this would actually be a very good patch if they reverted the repentance change and just gave DK's minor mending instead making major mending all but impossible to achieve. Major mending shouldn't even be a thing it is way to powerful of a buff for ANY class. I don't even believe a major mending potion should be in the game. The DK battleroar and helping hands passives need to be less nerfed also. The block changes are right on target though. NB's siphoing attacks needs to be reverted. Dark deal needs to give less resources or have a longer channel so you can have a shot at counter play. It is to powerful. Sorc shields need to critable. I can get a 20k shield in trueflame with the two least powerful morphs of ward and annulment. Light and medium armor nerfs need to be reverted but the heavy nerf to constitution is again...right on target. Those are my opinions, my findings my beliefs. I just don't see any of these nerfs being reverted though and the reasons are again....NDA

DeadlyRecluse

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Either way, my DK will be just fine.

Agreed. Much sky-is-falling going on at the moment.

@TipsyDrow agreed about pelinals getting stronger.

Tbh a lot of niche builds are getting indirectly buffed. The biggest issue I have is that often sustain nerfs just push people FURTHER into stack-damage builds in order to end fights before try have to worry about resource management. But we'll see.

Azurulia

What gets me in all of this is one of their reasonings for the Templar major mending nerfs.

With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations.

While I understand it being more powerful than intended, it's like they are surprised that Templar are the most desirable healer in end game situations. Their class has healing and support abilities that no other class even gets remotely close to. Even with the mending nerf it's not going to make "that" big of a deal in the grand scheme of thing when it comes to end game.

Templars just bring so much more to the table in terms of healing and support than the otehr classes becaouse its part of it's class design. Granted other classes can fit the shoe as a healer, templars however are the best healers because they "are" the best healers.

Call me crazy, but their even mentioning them as favorable in end game as a reason seems really silly. Of course they are most favorable! You made them to be that way!

They could have just left it at being more powerful then intended and called it a day if you ask me.

TipsyDrow

Azurulia wrote: »

What gets me in all of this is one of their reasonings for the Templar major mending nerfs.

With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations.

While I understand it being more powerful than intended, it's like they are surprised that Templar are the most desirable healer in end game situations. Their class has healing and support abilities that no other class even gets remotely close to. Even with the mending nerf it's not going to make "that" big of a deal in the grand scheme of thing when it comes to end game.

Templars just bring so much more to the table in terms of healing and support than the otehr classes becaouse its part of it's class design. Granted other classes can fit the shoe as a healer, templars however are the best healers because they "are" the best healers.

Call me crazy, but their even mentioning them as favorable in end game as a reason seems really silly. Of course they are most favorable! You made them to be that way!

They could have just left it at being more powerful then intended and called it a day if you ask me.

I don't even think the loss of major mending was the worst one, changing repentance and shards to me are the one that just really kick ya in the balls. Homogenizing and dumbing down classes never ever goes well for MMO's....ever.

Azurulia

I totally forgot about that one.

yeah. Just look what happened when wow lobotomized all the classes to be more simple. It was frustrating and boring, as you could no longer use certain abilities in situations because they no longer existed.

If I had a dollar for every time I found myself saying, "I REALLY wish I still had heartstrike right now" while playing my Deathknight in warlords of draenor.

Like you said. These sorts of moves are never good.

vamp_emily

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

To be fair, @Valen_Byte did say he didn't feel his dk would be affected much bc of the way he plays it. And hes talkin pvp, not hardmode vet dungeons, which we don't even really do often. Also, he doesn't have a healer so he cant just go run a trial with one lol! He does have a much more optimistic outlook on this patch than most, myself included. However part of that is bc this is only the first week and @Mjollo hit the nail on the head, they do drastic things first sweep and most of the time they do consider feedback and tune it down. This is why its so important that we do give constructive feedback.

Also, we have been thru many drastic changes in this game since it launched, this is just one more time they are turning things upside down on us, we will adjust, one way or another. Does it look grim? Yes, I think a bit but that's partly bc we have all fine tuned our builds and that *** takes time, it can be a bit discouraging with such drastic changes and no one wants this game to turn into Heavy Attack Online... boring!

I know I have definitely been upset with Templar changes, the removal of half a thing a skill does - told it was over performing and then to see that same thing given to the new class really really pisses me off, more than resource changes. Making me despise their new class, that's for sure. Atm I'm more #screwyourwarden than anything.

Best we can do is continue to give our feedback and see what happens. Change, can be good for a game, gutting classes, making them less unique, can be disastrous.

Stop the PRESS!

Are you telling me FRANK is not a healer???!!??

Adenoma

So that server crash was kind of dirty. I'm sorry, but we want our scrolls back

ColoursYouHave

Man, I had soooooo much fun playing in BWB last night. It was one of those nights that really reminds me why I love this game so much. There were tons of fun fights, an absolutely epic last stand at the last AD emp keep, made some new friends, got some salty whispers, and got to participate is some general zone chat silliness. Hopefully there are more nights like that in the near future.

Adenoma

Get ready for tonight!

ColoursYouHave

Adenoma wrote: »

Get ready for tonight!

Going for another emp push? I always seem to log on well after AD crowns emp, right around the time we're about to lose it.

Stridig

Just got hemmed up at the Canadian border for a couple hours. I thought Canadians were nice. Lol

ColoursYouHave

Stridig wrote: »

Just got hemmed up at the Canadian border for a couple hours. I thought Canadians were nice. Lol

Funny story. When I was 19 I drove up to Windsor from Detroit to go hit up some bars, and the next morning coming back into the U.S. got selected for a "random" vehicle search. After spending about an hour in the waiting room, I got called up and told that I had a warrant out for my arrest and they were going to need to take me to jail. I explained to the guy that I had just become a Notary Public earlier that month, which requires a background check, and there must've been a mistake. I won't explain why, but I had actually been on probation for a misdemeanor earlier that year, so I told him perhaps there was some mix-up with the courts where they didn't update that I had served my probation in whatever system they are using, and he eventually let me go and told me I better get it cleared up because I won't be so lucky next time. So I went up to the police station as soon as I got home, explained what happened, and he did a search and confirmed that there was in fact no warrant for my arrest. I still have absolutely no idea what happened there, but after telling a friend of mine who is a former Detroit police officer, he thought they may have just been trying to intimidate me for some reason. Haven't been back to Canada since.

Stridig

Adenoma wrote: »

Get ready for tonight!

No Emp for you tonight my friend. We plan on having a good fight!

Adenoma

I would love that! Honestly, I want to vet out tonight so that someone else gets the crown. I'm drawing a lot of GF aggro (understandably) as is and I need to work on my applications for away rotations.