An auction house is still needed?

GarnetFire17 · August 2016

You don't need to be in a prime spot to have your things sell decently and you can always sell in zone or trade with friends. There are more than enough good spots. The only ones that are really getting left behind are the people who don't really care about the game enough to get into a good trading guild.

ADarklore · August 2016

Let's also not forget that ESO is built on the history and lore of the Elder Scrolls series... and an AH would not make any sense lore wise in this game. Considering it's an MMORPG, I think lore is pretty important for those who RP. If you don't like not having an AH, then there are plenty of other MMOs out there that do have an AH and don't care about lore and things making sense.

GarnetFire17 · August 2016

esometric wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

esometric wrote: »

this trading sytstem is worst ever, like this was only in soviet union. first mmo there solo player dnt have trade system.

You realize trade system and player market system are 2 different types of trading right? If you don't like the player market system then use chatting in crowds to see if anyone is selling what you seek and then use good old fashioned direct trading.

you realize that not all people so stupid that whant pay taxes for people who press 2 buttons and create guild in game ???

Well there is already. a solution the game has for that. Don't join. Others will benefit from your non participation in the market don't worry.

Vonbone · August 2016

Personally I don't really like the guild trade system. It is a pain in the you know what to find what you are looking for but what I dislike even more is bots running a single AH. So really, the guild trade system is better than the single AH setup just for that reason.

Abeille · August 2016

Erelah wrote: »

I am waiting for One Tamerial to come out.

At that time there will be 1/3 the number of Guild traders available due instead of there being an EP, DC, and AD Stonefalls all with their own Guild Traders available there will just be one Stonefallas, the same with all the other zones. With a lot less Guilds (and thus people) having Guild Traders likely causing guild stores to become even more mercenary I wonder if people will want something more global or regional where everyone can sell items.

You are mistaken on how guild kiosks work. They are the same for every faction, therefore nothing will change with One Tamriel.

To make it clear: If you go to Rawl'kha with an AD character, and EP character and a DC character on NA/PC, you will see that Etherial Traders Union controls Muheh on the three cases.

bareheiny · August 2016

I've just spent the last week gathering enough gold to cover the cost of a specific motif I'm chasing. During that week I've also been checking Guild Traders....and I just can't face it anymore.

Scrolling through pages and pages for the motif...all sorted by page order. No search function. It makes me feel like my eyes are about to bleed.

The current system may be great for traders, but it sucks large amounts of donkey *** for buyers.

Now if ZOS were to allow us to search for specific items, list items alphabetically and save recent searches I'd be happy....it wouldn't bother me to traipse across the map visiting every trader available. But as it stands, I'm over it and I'm giving up.

I'll just wait for ZOS to put the full motif on the Crown Store (although I may get lucky and get it from a drop....hahahahahahaha).

Somebody in-game is missing out on a nice chunk of gold because of the asinine search "function".

Although maybe that's the plan...make it difficult to find things easily in traders, put the items on the Crown Store.

Wreuntzylla · August 2016

I get it. The 2k or so people making big bank in mega craft guilds want things to stay the same.

However, most players don't have the time to visit every guild store when they need something, or as in my case, find it so mind numbingly painful they avoid it like the plague. That's why, in effect, there might as well only be a handful of guild traders. Those guild traders DO monopolize certain rare goods like no tomorrow. One of the few times I shopped around, when buying 2-3 potent nirn, I found a kiosk with a half price sale - 10k. By the time I got back from the bank they were gone. When I made my way back to my favorite merchant in Rawl 'Kha, they had 10 more potent nirn for 18k...

You can't even say ESO has exchanged informal groups of people monopolizing the market for formal groups doing so. The current system has both. If anything, the price of specific rare goods is well controlled. Going back to the potent nirn example, the price has hoovered around 20k through the nerf to nirn, it being made much more available and the recent buff. That should not happen. In a well functioning market, the price should fluctuate with availability and demand.

I am positive that's why ZoS switched from a rare-gear model across the board in IC to a flood-the-world model for a many of sets. Seriously, IC was crushing for non-hardcore players. Then all of a sudden I am getting prime set jewelry in the mail... They succeeded in making the price drop on those sets, but it hasn't scratched the other monopolies.

In any case, I have a compromise position. Some games put you in a newbie guild on creation but you lose it forever when you leave. ZoS should simply place a store in each of the guilds (fighters, mages, undaunted) only accessible for selling if a player's account has not been associated with a guild that has a kiosk. Put the stores for the guilds in the guild's special area to make it a bit of a trek to shop there (Eyevea, Earth Forge).

Katahdin · August 2016

GW2 has an AH. There were some groups of people that were absolutely able to control some popular items very easily. Any time any amount of whatever item they were interested in was put up for a cheap price, they bought it and relisted it. In fact one of my friends did just that with one commodity by himself for a while. There are people who love to just play stock market in games and they have tons of gold and they make tons of gold. It is very easy to do. Anyone that says it cant be done, is naive.

Katahdin · August 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_DaryaK

This conversation is going no where and is just becoming a circular argument. The participants will never agree.

I respectfully suggest the thread be closed.

Ojustaboo · August 2016

Probably impossible to do, but if there was a fairer way, where by you can only be a member of one trading guild that has a market place position, that would be much better.

As it is, certain players belong to 4 or 5 trading guilds, all win the market positions, they are all happy, but they are raking in money, meaning the following month they can outbid everyone, and for the rest of us, well many of us aren't being given a chance.

or

Maybe have a flag to indicate a guild is a trading guild, then you could have guilds bid for prime locations, but have a few remote locations open to a lottery/lucky dip, only open to those trading guilds who didn't get a market position the last time. Maybe these lucky dip positions are only available for a few days then another guild gets a go, so that there is still real benefit for bidding for the prime locations etc.

Just me thinking out loud

Ojustaboo · August 2016

bareheiny wrote: »

I've just spent the last week gathering enough gold to cover the cost of a specific motif I'm chasing. During that week I've also been checking Guild Traders....and I just can't face it anymore.

Scrolling through pages and pages for the motif...all sorted by page order. No search function. It makes me feel like my eyes are about to bleed.

The current system may be great for traders, but it sucks large amounts of donkey *** for buyers.

Now if ZOS were to allow us to search for specific items, list items alphabetically and save recent searches I'd be happy....it wouldn't bother me to traipse across the map visiting every trader available. But as it stands, I'm over it and I'm giving up.

I'll just wait for ZOS to put the full motif on the Crown Store (although I may get lucky and get it from a drop....hahahahahahaha).

Somebody in-game is missing out on a nice chunk of gold because of the asinine search "function".

Although maybe that's the plan...make it difficult to find things easily in traders, put the items on the Crown Store.

If your on the PC, "AwesomeGuildSTore" is your answer, it also means you don't have to retype everything at every trader.

BruhItsOver9000 · August 2016

I'm surprised this thread hasn't got locked yet.

Ojustaboo · August 2016

Katahdin wrote: »

GW2 has an AH. There were some groups of people that were absolutely able to control some popular items very easily. Any time any amount of whatever item they were interested in was put up for a cheap price, they bought it and relisted it. In fact one of my friends did just that with one commodity by himself for a while. There are people who love to just play stock market in games and they have tons of gold and they make tons of gold. It is very easy to do. Anyone that says it cant be done, is naive.

Yep but there's players who are in multiple trading guilds, all with market places, going around to all the other guild stores, buying up their cheaper stock and reselling it in their own guild stores, so absolutely no different.

bareheiny · August 2016

Ojustaboo wrote: »

bareheiny wrote: »

I've just spent the last week gathering enough gold to cover the cost of a specific motif I'm chasing. During that week I've also been checking Guild Traders....and I just can't face it anymore.

Scrolling through pages and pages for the motif...all sorted by page order. No search function. It makes me feel like my eyes are about to bleed.

The current system may be great for traders, but it sucks large amounts of donkey *** for buyers.

Now if ZOS were to allow us to search for specific items, list items alphabetically and save recent searches I'd be happy....it wouldn't bother me to traipse across the map visiting every trader available. But as it stands, I'm over it and I'm giving up.

I'll just wait for ZOS to put the full motif on the Crown Store (although I may get lucky and get it from a drop....hahahahahahaha).

Somebody in-game is missing out on a nice chunk of gold because of the asinine search "function".

Although maybe that's the plan...make it difficult to find things easily in traders, put the items on the Crown Store.

If your on the PC, "AwesomeGuildSTore" is your answer, it also means you don't have to retype everything at every trader.

For better or worse - honestly, I'd argue better....obviously others would argue worse

- I'm play on the PS4, so no add-ons for me

smacx250 · August 2016

There is no question that ZOS needs to fix the guild trader interface, as it is a huge source of pain and is really ridiculous with respect to its lack of functionality. I can walk into most sporting goods stores and ask for a specific brand/features, and have someone help me locate it or turn me away. But with ESO, it's more like, "just go sort through the bin with 1000 random stuff thrown in and see if you can find what you like". When you have to do that sorting at 20 or more traders, the blood really starts boiling. Just fix the search already - its not like putting that functionality into the stock client, or heaven forbid, into the server (text search isn't in the API, so addons need to do it on the client - which is clunky but still much better than not at all), is going to lag out Cyrodiil!

Hey - maybe they can make it an ESO+ or crown store option!

bareheiny · August 2016

smacx250 wrote: »

There is no question that ZOS needs to fix the guild trader interface, as it is a huge source of pain and is really ridiculous with respect to its lack of functionality. I can walk into most sporting goods stores and ask for a specific brand/features, and have someone help me locate it or turn me away. But with ESO, it's more like, "just go sort through the bin with 1000 random stuff thrown in and see if you can find what you like". When you have to do that sorting at 20 or more traders, the blood really starts boiling. Just fix the search already - its not like putting that functionality into the stock client, or heaven forbid, into the server (text search isn't in the API, so addons need to do it on the client - which is clunky but still much better than not at all), is going to lag out Cyrodiil!

Hey - maybe they can make it an ESO+ or crown store option!

I'm a subscriber, but don't go giving them ideas!

Wreuntzylla · August 2016

Katahdin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_DaryaK

This conversation is going no where and is just becoming a circular argument. The participants will never agree.

I respectfully suggest the thread be closed.

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread hasn't got locked yet.

Why would you ever think the purposes of forum threads is to reach agreement?

Why would you want a constructive conversation to cease?

Guild traders, amirite?

smacx250 · August 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_DaryaK

This conversation is going no where and is just becoming a circular argument. The participants will never agree.

I respectfully suggest the thread be closed.

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread hasn't got locked yet.

Why would you ever think the purposes of forum threads is to reach agreement?

Why would you want a constructive conversation to cease?

Guild traders, amirite?

I'm in a trade guild, and I'm doing my best to constructively contribute to the discussion. I know all isn't great with the system, and believe me, I'm not the "guild" kind of guy - otherwise solo all the way. Given the average lack of items in guild traders, my #1 issue is lack of participation in the system. For the haters, what would need to change in order to get you to participate in the "guild trader" system? From my perspective, the problem is not that you can't participate, but that you don't. So what does it take to bridge that gap? When the problem becomes that there are more that want into the system than the system can take, that becomes a different question - but we are certainly not there yet.

Asata · August 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Asata wrote: »

It's absolutely needed but as long as there are fanboys sanctifying the glories of the failed system ZOS isn't going to do jack ***.

The market is already easily manipulated by a few people. I just saw someone yesterday say when someone undercuts them that they buy all of them from every trader and jack up the prices until others start listing at those higher prices then they unlist.

Just a few weeks ago Kuta was manipulated by a few people undercutting. In the timespan of a week it went from 7k to 4.5k. It wasn't just supply & demand fluctuation. It was intentional. They were talking about it.

Interesting. For the guilds that feed into my Market Master prices, kuta has been steady at around 6250 gold for a while now.

Which kind of demonstrates that not all traders have been manipulated - precisely because we have traders instead of a single AH. It actually makes it harder to manipulate prices.

Asata wrote: »

All of you people are naive that think the market can't be manipulated the way it is. There are only a select few trader locations in the game that even matter, and a single player can be in 4 of them which is enough to cover the majority of all of those locales.

Really? Well that's a lot of work - going round 5 traders in 4 major locations several times a day...

A lot more work than buying up materials to corner the market at a global auction house.

And if they buy up all of my kuta at 6250 and sell it back at 4500 then I'm not complaining

Asata wrote: »

ust because people have gotten used to it and have gritted their teeth and bared with it doesn't mean it's a good system. To even have a trader in a good town costs ~2-11m a week. Sales don't amount to jack ***. You'd have to sell 400k worth of good just for the guild to make 2k. That means every single player in a 500 member guild would have to sell 400k worth of goods just to earn 1m. Even in a Rawl'kha guild that requires members sell 25,000 worth of goods or buy 7000 worth of raffle tickets doesn't get much from the store itself. 3.5% of 25000 is only 875 gold.

Trade guilds do not make profits. They are total losses. They are only successful because players pour money into them to keep traders, and it's like pulling teeth getting players to do so. You also have a few members in these guilds spending their entire time in-game grinding motifs and gold for the guild to bolster it further, because that's the only way it works.

So ALL trade guilds are losing money?

But then how come I make a profit?

And how come the system is sustainable - and has sustained over two years of trading?

Where does all the gold come from that is poured in to buy traders? It's almost as if everyone is going into debt to finance loss-making trading...

Asata wrote: »

If the system were to say they would need to add an adjustable tax rate. 3.5% of the house cut is not enough. It should be a passive system. Guild masters shouldn't have to practically beg their members to contribute to support a trader. If you could just bump it up to 10-15% then it would be smooth sailing.

Unfortunately, the practice would still continue. The entire system of guilds having to bid to compete with other guilds to get a trader is obscene. It limits the game to somewhere around 30 guilds that can actually have a "good" trader location (~15,000 players). Everyone else? Well, you're just screwed. The system can't support a large playerbase. It's a bad system and requires far too much work for everyone involved.

Ah... that explains it... QQ because you lost your trader.

It's called competition.

Asata wrote: »

Remove the auctioning of the traders, and add an adjustable tax rate for guild leaders. Set the number of guilds that can list their stores at an NPC at a specific locations to an unlimited number, and have it as a fixed price (adjusted with inflation) per week to retain. Remove limitations of staying at one trader location for the entire week as well. Let a guild move to a different locale if they can pay in and support the different location.

It wouldn't be an auction house system per se but it would be vast improvement over the current system. The gold sink would still exist. Players would still have to shop around. The only difference is that it would be a lot easier for everyone involved.

And that would then remove the "game" which you are complaining about because you lost.

Guild trading is a competitive game. It has been set up by ZoS as both a massive gold sink and also a way to encourage competition between trader guilds. As with any competition there will be winners and losers. It's the nature of the game.

If your guild can't make a profit, if your guild can't hold onto a trader, then someone else will.

Haven't lost a trader, so your entire post is moot.

Cogo · August 2016

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread hasn't got locked yet.

What could ZoS win by doing anything here? Stating how wrong an AH would be? Confirming no yet again?
Locking these threads does very little. Just like with kids, you ignore them and they fall asleep.

Jeremy · August 2016

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO? Being different doesn't work in online trade. Right now there's like 5% of the game pop/15% of forums who are in a guild which can successfully manipulate the clunky system. The rest are trying and often failing to have fun.

Normal successful MMOs usually have half a million players who ONLY play to trade, you lost every single one of those people with your attempt at a unique system.

This is coming from someone who loves most everything else about the game, happy member of ESO+ and preordered the console release, the game lacks in that unlike most other MMOs where in game price exploitation is a nonissue at the worst of times even slight exploits on this causes a gap of tens of millions between 1% of the players to the other 99%. Worse than real life economy!

Public opinion is tolerated, unlike when in Facebook

I can relate.

I also pre-ordered and have played this game off and on since the PC beta and the lack of a central economy (I.E. Auction House) was my first complaint. As your post alludes to, I am certain the lack of an effective economy has cost this game dearly in subscribers. The addition of guild traders helped in terms of buying - as you now have at least a decent chance at finding what you are looking for if you willing to scope out the guild vendors for days on end. But selling items still requires a large and active trading guild - which is difficult to maintain or acquire, especially for casual players.

This game does a lot of things very well. The questing/exploration elements are the best on the market right now. The dungeons are fun (when you can get into one). Both the character customization and combat are well done. But this game continues to have two serious flaws that should have been fixed by now. Those are the dungeon finder and economic systems - both of which still remain ineffective and clunky after 2 years of people asking them to fix them.

Iluvrien · August 2016

Cheveyo wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Temp alloys are a rare resource : which means, they are used up in larger quantities than they are produced by the system/player activity.
You won't have that many people coming up with hundred of alloys to sell, and IF they did, they would of course follow the upward trend of prices initiated by the group of ppl controlling the market for alloys.
We do not own the means of production but those means are limited, and people who will produce will follow the market trend.

L2economics.

You don't have many people coming up with them because of how limiting the guild trader system is.
If there was a global auction house, you would not have this problem.

Or, perhaps, you don't have people coming up with them because:

1) The means of production is actually quite slow. Hirelings don't bring that many. Writs provide a few. Refining is the primary source and that takes either money or time.

2) It takes 8 gold tempers to have 100% chance of improving an item. 7 pieces by 8 tempers is 56 per set. And that is per character as a minimum (some lunatics may create more than one gold set).

3) New gear meta, DLCs, gear caps or players will be consuming these tempers at a rate that is proportional to the entire population (i.e. the more producers you have, also means that there will be more consumers).

All of these things lead me to believe that people like @anitajoneb17_ESO have the right of it. Pooling high-end rare resources like these in one place will make them easier to monopolize not harder.