An auction house is still needed?

Mady

An auction house is still needed?

No.

ScottK1994

Yes

ScottK1994

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Many people like the current system. Many people dislike it.
System will stay.
OP has no clue what he's talking about, he just likes to think that everyone else thinks like him (and that anyone disagreeing with him is intellectually dishonest or just plain stupid).

Nope. You have no clue you just made up three seperate statements on the spot. A) you don't know what everyome else thinks b) you don't know how many(on forums or in population) like and dislike the trading 'system' and c) there's good reason why the majority opinion of every change is negative no matter what it is. Every forum is full of those like you who ASSUME and LIE about what other people want.

Bolt

AzraelKrieg

You're complaining about this again?

TequilaFire

All I know is I refuse to pay 16K plus for gold tempers listed by the same guy at every guild trader in Mournhold.
Greed is out of hand so a farming I will go!

BruhItsOver9000

No.












End of discussion.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ScottK1994 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Many people like the current system. Many people dislike it.
System will stay.
OP has no clue what he's talking about, he just likes to think that everyone else thinks like him (and that anyone disagreeing with him is intellectually dishonest or just plain stupid).

Nope. You have no clue you just made up three seperate statements on the spot. A) you don't know what everyome else thinks b) you don't know how many(on forums or in population) like and dislike the trading 'system' and c) there's good reason why the majority opinion of every change is negative no matter what it is. Every forum is full of those like you who ASSUME and LIE about what other people want.

Bolt

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO? Being different doesn't work in online trade. Right now there's like 5% of the game pop/15% of forums who are in a guild which can successfully manipulate the clunky system. The rest are trying and often failing to have fun.

Normal successful MMOs usually have half a million players who ONLY play to trade, you lost every single one of those people with your attempt at a unique system.

I see what you mean.

Cogo

There is a non trader that all in the game of the same alliance can use. There is one in each zone

...Zonechat

jedtb16_ESO

ScottK1994 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Many people like the current system. Many people dislike it.
System will stay.
OP has no clue what he's talking about, he just likes to think that everyone else thinks like him (and that anyone disagreeing with him is intellectually dishonest or just plain stupid).

Nope. You have no clue you just made up three seperate statements on the spot. A) you don't know what everyome else thinks b) you don't know how many(on forums or in population) like and dislike the trading 'system' and c) there's good reason why the majority opinion of every change is negative no matter what it is. Every forum is full of those like you who ASSUME and LIE about what other people want.

Bolt

how about your figures in the op.....where is the source for them?

BruhItsOver9000

Cogo wrote: »

There is a non trader that all in the game of the same alliance can use. There is one in each zone

...Zonechat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW68goC4_es

smacx250

How is sitting around looking at a screen full of text without doing anything "in game" better than traveling around the game world, interacting with various game elements, building and using knowledge of what and where it is good to buy and sell, and actually performing a service in moving goods from lesser known traders to more traffic'd traders - and with a potential profit for those in-game efforts? It also provides a dampening effect on market dynamics, as it takes a lot of time and effort for players to try and corner the market on a good - not so when all one needs to do is instantly watch the global supply/demand of a given good on a single screen. Not everything in the game should be about "easier" and "faster" - it should be about "playing" and the types of emergent gameplay that can develop. If one thinks about it beyond the "that's how it's done in MMOs" argument, the idea that having player trading in a game should mean that you can achieve instant gratification by easily buying "out of game" anything that otherwise needs to be obtained "in game" is a bit strange, and I'm glad it isn't present in ESO.

I agree the interface is horrible, and the PC addons have some great examples on how to make it much better for everyone. I know if I was on console, or not using addons, I'd be furious about that aspect as well (I am, in principal, though I personally have the addon workaround).

As far as those not "wanting" to join a trade guild - that is your decision. Just like it is my decision not to endlessly farm for the best end-game gear. Will it have a negative effect on your profits? Most likely. Just like my decision most likely has a negative effect on my PvP performance. If you feel that participating in the trade guild system will be a net negative for you (e.g., you feel that without guild taxes/contributions/etc you can do better on your own), then I guess you have a leg up on the system and have no need for trade guilds.

If you do want to join a good trade guild but don't know how to go about it (e.g., don't see the guild you want advertising in chat) - look at who is selling at a trader that you think is good, and send a friendly in-game message to one of the more active sellers asking who you can contact about membership. Then message that contact person and ask if they have openings, and what the membership requirements are. Most large trade guilds regularly replace inactive members (whatever their "inactive" definition is), giving ongoing opportunities for new members to join. If it seems like a good fit, make a request. If not, move on to another trader and repeat.

VizigothAlaric

U can't even find proper alchemy materials nowadays. This is how current trading system it is.

ScottK1994

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Many people like the current system. Many people dislike it.
System will stay.
OP has no clue what he's talking about, he just likes to think that everyone else thinks like him (and that anyone disagreeing with him is intellectually dishonest or just plain stupid).

Nope. You have no clue you just made up three seperate statements on the spot. A) you don't know what everyome else thinks b) you don't know how many(on forums or in population) like and dislike the trading 'system' and c) there's good reason why the majority opinion of every change is negative no matter what it is. Every forum is full of those like you who ASSUME and LIE about what other people want.

Bolt

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO? Being different doesn't work in online trade. Right now there's like 5% of the game pop/15% of forums who are in a guild which can successfully manipulate the clunky system. The rest are trying and often failing to have fun.

Normal successful MMOs usually have half a million players who ONLY play to trade, you lost every single one of those people with your attempt at a unique system.

I see what you mean.

You either have literacy issues or are making things up still?

Asata

It's absolutely needed but as long as there are fanboys sanctifying the glories of the failed system ZOS isn't going to do jack ***.

The market is already easily manipulated by a few people. I just saw someone yesterday say when someone undercuts them that they buy all of them from every trader and jack up the prices until others start listing at those higher prices then they unlist.

Just a few weeks ago Kuta was manipulated by a few people undercutting. In the timespan of a week it went from 7k to 4.5k. It wasn't just supply & demand fluctuation. It was intentional. They were talking about it.

All of you people are naive that think the market can't be manipulated the way it is. There are only a select few trader locations in the game that even matter, and a single player can be in 4 of them which is enough to cover the majority of all of those locales.

Just because people have gotten used to it and have gritted their teeth and bared with it doesn't mean it's a good system. To even have a trader in a good town costs ~2-11m a week. Sales don't amount to jack ***. You'd have to sell 400k worth of good just for the guild to make 2k. That means every single player in a 500 member guild would have to sell 400k worth of goods just to earn 1m. Even in a Rawl'kha guild that requires members sell 25,000 worth of goods or buy 7000 worth of raffle tickets doesn't get much from the store itself. 3.5% of 25000 is only 875 gold.

Trade guilds do not make profits. They are total losses. They are only successful because players pour money into them to keep traders, and it's like pulling teeth getting players to do so. You also have a few members in these guilds spending their entire time in-game grinding motifs and gold for the guild to bolster it further, because that's the only way it works.

If the system were to say they would need to add an adjustable tax rate. 3.5% of the house cut is not enough. It should be a passive system. Guild masters shouldn't have to practically beg their members to contribute to support a trader. If you could just bump it up to 10-15% then it would be smooth sailing.

Unfortunately, the practice would still continue. The entire system of guilds having to bid to compete with other guilds to get a trader is obscene. It limits the game to somewhere around 30 guilds that can actually have a "good" trader location (~15,000 players). Everyone else? Well, you're just screwed. The system can't support a large playerbase. It's a bad system and requires far too much work for everyone involved.

Remove the auctioning of the traders, and add an adjustable tax rate for guild leaders. Set the number of guilds that can list their stores at an NPC at a specific locations to an unlimited number, and have it as a fixed price (adjusted with inflation) per week to retain. Remove limitations of staying at one trader location for the entire week as well. Let a guild move to a different locale if they can pay in and support the different location.

It wouldn't be an auction house system per se but it would be vast improvement over the current system. The gold sink would still exist. Players would still have to shop around. The only difference is that it would be a lot easier for everyone involved.

ScottK1994

smacx250 wrote: »

How is sitting around looking at a screen full of text without doing anything "in game" better than traveling around the game world, interacting with various game elements, building and using knowledge of what and where it is good to buy and sell, and actually performing a service in moving goods from lesser known traders to more traffic'd traders - and with a potential profit for those in-game efforts? It also provides a dampening effect on market dynamics, as it takes a lot of time and effort for players to try and corner the market on a good - not so when all one needs to do is instantly watch the global supply/demand of a given good on a single screen. Not everything in the game should be about "easier" and "faster" - it should be about "playing" and the types of emergent gameplay that can develop. If one thinks about it beyond the "that's how it's done in MMOs" argument, the idea that having player trading in a game should mean that you can achieve instant gratification by easily buying "out of game" anything that otherwise needs to be obtained "in game" is a bit strange, and I'm glad it isn't present in ESO.

I agree the interface is horrible, and the PC addons have some great examples on how to make it much better for everyone. I know if I was on console, or not using addons, I'd be furious about that aspect as well (I am, in principal, though I personally have the addon workaround).

As far as those not "wanting" to join a trade guild - that is your decision. Just like it is my decision not to endlessly farm for the best end-game gear. Will it have a negative effect on your profits? Most likely. Just like my decision most likely has a negative effect on my PvP performance. If you feel that participating in the trade guild system will be a net negative for you (e.g., you feel that without guild taxes/contributions/etc you can do better on your own), then I guess you have a leg up on the system and have no need for trade guilds.

If you do want to join a good trade guild but don't know how to go about it (e.g., don't see the guild you want advertising in chat) - look at who is selling at a trader that you think is good, and send a friendly in-game message to one of the more active sellers asking who you can contact about membership. Then message that contact person and ask if they have openings, and what the membership requirements are. Most large trade guilds regularly replace inactive members (whatever their "inactive" definition is), giving ongoing opportunities for new members to join. If it seems like a good fit, make a request. If not, move on to another trader and repeat.

It's not about movement, not amount ease, not simply about the super elitism going on the market allowing certain guilds to dominate more than banking cartels do in real life. It's about a simple working market which the game has never had

ScottK1994

How are they going to increase the gear cap when there is already no proper way to supply anything below 160

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ScottK1994 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Many people like the current system. Many people dislike it.
System will stay.
OP has no clue what he's talking about, he just likes to think that everyone else thinks like him (and that anyone disagreeing with him is intellectually dishonest or just plain stupid).

Nope. You have no clue you just made up three seperate statements on the spot. A) you don't know what everyome else thinks b) you don't know how many(on forums or in population) like and dislike the trading 'system' and c) there's good reason why the majority opinion of every change is negative no matter what it is. Every forum is full of those like you who ASSUME and LIE about what other people want.

Bolt

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO? Being different doesn't work in online trade. Right now there's like 5% of the game pop/15% of forums who are in a guild which can successfully manipulate the clunky system. The rest are trying and often failing to have fun.

Normal successful MMOs usually have half a million players who ONLY play to trade, you lost every single one of those people with your attempt at a unique system.

I see what you mean.

You either have literacy issues or are making things up still?

Of course, I have literacy issues and am making things up.
I'll leave you all to have your fun with this troll.

ScottK1994

Funny how language changes, a troll used to mean someone who derails a topic or harasses others but now it simply means anyone with a strong opinion

esometric

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

esometric wrote: »

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

If they put a auction house, i wouldn't be able to make money, so no.

they will put in time other trading system and will be very fun then guild owners cry.

If they put an auction house, it would ruin the economy, so no.

how explain please ? how ruin economic ah ? how ? its only broike bussiness of guilds.

Averya_Teira

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO?

That's funny... I've played many an MMO that were successful in their own way that DIDN'T have one. Also what exactly is considered "successful"?

Honestly I'm glad this game has no auction house. Makes it easier to get what I need Searching various locations around Tamriel > Everyone camping the same place and swiping everything before you get a shot at it.

As in hundreds of millions of dollars every year. And well don't keep us in suspense give us a list of these successful MMOs without AH

If that is your opinion of a successful MMO then I'd say that's pretty much every MMO that lasted a good few years or so at least, and there are SO many of those... As for what DIDN'T have an auction house well...

Runescape didn't.
Helbreath didn't.
Aranock Online didn't.
Redstone didn't.

My memory is fuzzy so I cannot recall everything about the various MMOs I have played including what ones I HAVE played but I'm quite certain that those did not at the very least.

Except runescape (meh), those are far from successful MMOs.....

esometric

EZgoin76 wrote: »

I detest the economy in ESO. That being said though. I bear with it because I also know we will never get an Auction House.

Someone posted a thread a couple of weeks ago that I liked though. Non-guild traders that everyone in the game can use.

Before you go saying " NO! That's still an auction house." IMO they should work like this.

1. Only one non-guild trader in each starting city. Then possibly a random non-guild trader, out in the middle of nowhere, per alliance.
2. If you don't want to join a guild to trade then there should be serious limitations on how a player can sell. First - A really high sales tax. 30% or higher. Second - Very limited amount of items that could be posted per player. Lets say 3 -5 items.
3. I have no idea if this could be done or not but, give the sales tax to the trading guilds.

I would like to give the person that originated this idea credit for it. Unfortunately I can't find the thread.

i think better limitations for guild: tax what must pay guild owner for game server 80% from all what get guild, and guild shop can sell 5 items per day. or best wahay totaly take out guild shops and dont give for guild owners make money froim this and cheat people.

esometric

Mady wrote: »

An auction house is still needed?

No.

for kids of guilds who cheating people not need.

ScottK1994

Averya_Teira wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO?

That's funny... I've played many an MMO that were successful in their own way that DIDN'T have one. Also what exactly is considered "successful"?

Honestly I'm glad this game has no auction house. Makes it easier to get what I need Searching various locations around Tamriel > Everyone camping the same place and swiping everything before you get a shot at it.

As in hundreds of millions of dollars every year. And well don't keep us in suspense give us a list of these successful MMOs without AH

If that is your opinion of a successful MMO then I'd say that's pretty much every MMO that lasted a good few years or so at least, and there are SO many of those... As for what DIDN'T have an auction house well...

Runescape didn't.
Helbreath didn't.
Aranock Online didn't.
Redstone didn't.

My memory is fuzzy so I cannot recall everything about the various MMOs I have played including what ones I HAVE played but I'm quite certain that those did not at the very least.

Except runescape (meh), those are far from successful MMOs.....

I'd say runescape was successful because of the very little hardware requirement, not because of how good a game it was hahah

Averya_Teira

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

And no. Successful MMOs are very limited. WoW sucked up all the success 11 years ago and it spread to Guild Wa

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Guild traders are a failed concept. Where is the AH which is standard for every successful MMO?

That's funny... I've played many an MMO that were successful in their own way that DIDN'T have one. Also what exactly is considered "successful"?

Honestly I'm glad this game has no auction house. Makes it easier to get what I need Searching various locations around Tamriel > Everyone camping the same place and swiping everything before you get a shot at it.

As in hundreds of millions of dollars every year. And well don't keep us in suspense give us a list of these successful MMOs without AH

So the half a million players that left because of no ah, will net eso hundreds of millions of dollars?

More like didn't join? People interested in playing with crafting/markets are obviously going to research the most intensive systems

So you think if those half a million had joined, it would equal hundreds of millions of dollars?

Half a million *40 for purchase, the continued purchase of all DLC, the benefits of ESO plus?
Yes of course hundreds of millions of dollars lol? Do you not understand math?

I do. Half a million people buying the game for 69.99 is 34 million dollars. It would take them some time to get to the hundreds of millions of dollars you claim. And while I'm at it, why exactly would they buy all the dlcs if they paying for eso plus.

So let's do maths. So even if all 500k of your imaginary ah army bought the game at 69.99 and paid for a year of eso plus we are somewhere around 110million. Still not hundreds of millions.

And we are assuming you actually have some idea what you are talking about with your half a million people don't play because of the ah. Of course you don't. Even if you did, you would have no way of knowing what these people would spend in game. But I was entertained by your Imaginary friends and your maths.

110million is not hundreds of millions of dollars? Lol? That's like saying "no you don't have thousands you have a thousand" are you American? Is that American style simplified maths? Hahahhaha

While I am American and do not deny someone the opportunity to bash America what with how crappy its "leaders" are I DO rather object to such blatant racism...

American is not a race, so....

ScottK1994

esometric wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

An auction house is still needed?

No.

for kids of guilds who cheating people not need.

Relax bro. Even if s/he's profiting millions it isn't cheating. The problem is the exclusion of majority of in game players and the lack of worth/supply/demand for items under 160 which would have those three traits under different circumstances

Averya_Teira

smacx250 wrote: »

How is sitting around looking at a screen full of text without doing anything "in game" better than traveling around the game world, interacting with various game elements, building and using knowledge of what and where it is good to buy and sell, and actually performing a service in moving goods from lesser known traders to more traffic'd traders - and with a potential profit for those in-game efforts? It also provides a dampening effect on market dynamics, as it takes a lot of time and effort for players to try and corner the market on a good - not so when all one needs to do is instantly watch the global supply/demand of a given good on a single screen. Not everything in the game should be about "easier" and "faster" - it should be about "playing" and the types of emergent gameplay that can develop. If one thinks about it beyond the "that's how it's done in MMOs" argument, the idea that having player trading in a game should mean that you can achieve instant gratification by easily buying "out of game" anything that otherwise needs to be obtained "in game" is a bit strange, and I'm glad it isn't present in ESO.

I agree the interface is horrible, and the PC addons have some great examples on how to make it much better for everyone. I know if I was on console, or not using addons, I'd be furious about that aspect as well (I am, in principal, though I personally have the addon workaround).

As far as those not "wanting" to join a trade guild - that is your decision. Just like it is my decision not to endlessly farm for the best end-game gear. Will it have a negative effect on your profits? Most likely. Just like my decision most likely has a negative effect on my PvP performance. If you feel that participating in the trade guild system will be a net negative for you (e.g., you feel that without guild taxes/contributions/etc you can do better on your own), then I guess you have a leg up on the system and have no need for trade guilds.

If you do want to join a good trade guild but don't know how to go about it (e.g., don't see the guild you want advertising in chat) - look at who is selling at a trader that you think is good, and send a friendly in-game message to one of the more active sellers asking who you can contact about membership. Then message that contact person and ask if they have openings, and what the membership requirements are. Most large trade guilds regularly replace inactive members (whatever their "inactive" definition is), giving ongoing opportunities for new members to join. If it seems like a good fit, make a request. If not, move on to another trader and repeat.

Because Taking two hours of my life to find the Armor piece I want at a decent price isn't my definition (or anyone's) of fun gameplay.....

I_killed_Vivec

Asata wrote: »

It's absolutely needed but as long as there are fanboys sanctifying the glories of the failed system ZOS isn't going to do jack ***.

The market is already easily manipulated by a few people. I just saw someone yesterday say when someone undercuts them that they buy all of them from every trader and jack up the prices until others start listing at those higher prices then they unlist.

Just a few weeks ago Kuta was manipulated by a few people undercutting. In the timespan of a week it went from 7k to 4.5k. It wasn't just supply & demand fluctuation. It was intentional. They were talking about it.

Interesting. For the guilds that feed into my Market Master prices, kuta has been steady at around 6250 gold for a while now.

Which kind of demonstrates that not all traders have been manipulated - precisely because we have traders instead of a single AH. It actually makes it harder to manipulate prices.

Asata wrote: »

All of you people are naive that think the market can't be manipulated the way it is. There are only a select few trader locations in the game that even matter, and a single player can be in 4 of them which is enough to cover the majority of all of those locales.

Really? Well that's a lot of work - going round 5 traders in 4 major locations several times a day...

A lot more work than buying up materials to corner the market at a global auction house.

And if they buy up all of my kuta at 6250 and sell it back at 4500 then I'm not complaining

Asata wrote: »

ust because people have gotten used to it and have gritted their teeth and bared with it doesn't mean it's a good system. To even have a trader in a good town costs ~2-11m a week. Sales don't amount to jack ***. You'd have to sell 400k worth of good just for the guild to make 2k. That means every single player in a 500 member guild would have to sell 400k worth of goods just to earn 1m. Even in a Rawl'kha guild that requires members sell 25,000 worth of goods or buy 7000 worth of raffle tickets doesn't get much from the store itself. 3.5% of 25000 is only 875 gold.

Trade guilds do not make profits. They are total losses. They are only successful because players pour money into them to keep traders, and it's like pulling teeth getting players to do so. You also have a few members in these guilds spending their entire time in-game grinding motifs and gold for the guild to bolster it further, because that's the only way it works.

So ALL trade guilds are losing money?

But then how come I make a profit?

And how come the system is sustainable - and has sustained over two years of trading?

Where does all the gold come from that is poured in to buy traders? It's almost as if everyone is going into debt to finance loss-making trading...

Asata wrote: »

If the system were to say they would need to add an adjustable tax rate. 3.5% of the house cut is not enough. It should be a passive system. Guild masters shouldn't have to practically beg their members to contribute to support a trader. If you could just bump it up to 10-15% then it would be smooth sailing.

Unfortunately, the practice would still continue. The entire system of guilds having to bid to compete with other guilds to get a trader is obscene. It limits the game to somewhere around 30 guilds that can actually have a "good" trader location (~15,000 players). Everyone else? Well, you're just screwed. The system can't support a large playerbase. It's a bad system and requires far too much work for everyone involved.

Ah... that explains it... QQ because you lost your trader.

It's called competition.

Asata wrote: »

Remove the auctioning of the traders, and add an adjustable tax rate for guild leaders. Set the number of guilds that can list their stores at an NPC at a specific locations to an unlimited number, and have it as a fixed price (adjusted with inflation) per week to retain. Remove limitations of staying at one trader location for the entire week as well. Let a guild move to a different locale if they can pay in and support the different location.

It wouldn't be an auction house system per se but it would be vast improvement over the current system. The gold sink would still exist. Players would still have to shop around. The only difference is that it would be a lot easier for everyone involved.

And that would then remove the "game" which you are complaining about because you lost.

Guild trading is a competitive game. It has been set up by ZoS as both a massive gold sink and also a way to encourage competition between trader guilds. As with any competition there will be winners and losers. It's the nature of the game.

If your guild can't make a profit, if your guild can't hold onto a trader, then someone else will.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Funny how language changes, a troll used to mean someone who derails a topic or harasses others but now it simply means anyone with a strong opinion

A strong opinion? Lets see your op is full of made up numbers and no way to back them up. Yet you call out someone else for making up numbers and say forums are full of people like that. When i point out that you did exactly the same thing, you say i cant read and im making stuff up.

I called you a troll because in several of your responses in this thread you only insult people instead of actually having a convesation about your topic. So troll in the sense of you arent really interested in talking about it. Even though your op claims you want to.

esometric

if you not understand normaly that your guild stores is crap system then you need go to doctor. I will really start use it to cheat people araund and make video guid how to cheat kids in this game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

esometric wrote: »

if you not understand normaly that your guild stores is crap system then you need go to doctor. I will really start use it to cheat people araund and make video guid how to cheat kids in this game.

Please go ahead and start backing up your unfounded assertions. I'm curious.

I note that just like your acolyte @ScottK1994 , you say openly that people who disagree with you are wrong/idiots/sick. Nice.