STOP DOING EQUIPMENT WRITS

Dubhliam

@imnotanother
So if I was, let's say, ask you to craft me a full set of medium Hunding's Rage at CP160, you would not charge me anything since you did not buy the materials needed to craft it, you harvested them for free.

Troll verdict: 3/10

maboleth

Go on, go on! I grabbed my popcorn. :P

Lysette

maboleth wrote: »

Go on, go on! I grabbed my popcorn. :P

here, take some brown melted butter to it - and a few grains of salt.

Troneon

When they first came out I did them a few times....

Never went back, crap design system and terrible rewards system, it is basically a mat / gold sink.

Then you have the whole orsinium crashing issues and having to take a skillpoint out of your crafting levels to get the right writs...

Stupid is stupid...

TheDarkoil

I don't do them since maxing all crafting skills, I find it a lot more profitable to just sell raw mats which are in abundance in silver and gold areas.

raasdal

Vangy wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I have stopped doing the Clothier Writ, since that one now does not give a good enough reward to do it.

But i am still doing Blacksmith, as that gives a profit still.

Just to recount;

Writs are not there to gain more material. As someone else stated, Writs has NEVER returned more material than it costed. What Writs are for, is gaining Gold Tempers. Currently the price of Rubedite Ingots compared to the price of Gold Temper, makes it profitable.

Enchanting is just a no-brainer - pure profit.

Writs ALWAYS gave more v15 material than they cost via surveys. They only costed more lower level mats. The money you made from getting the v15 mats always made up for this. Now they cost A LOT of v15 mats and DONT return enough v15 mats... So no. Imo they never costed more mats (In terms of gold) than they returned.

Ah yeah, i get your point. I was referring to total amount of Material, regardless of Tier (V15/16 vs. V14 mats).

What would be able to realluy specify gains/loss is the drop rate of gold temper?

According to experience it is somewhere about 20-40% chance to drop gold. I "feel" like it is 33% honestly. Can someone confirm what the droprate is?

Banana

I only have 1 toon doing them so it doesn't worry me

Sleep

I just do craplorn writs.

Gargath

In my eso history I did writs maybe few times on a single from 8 alts - for me it's one of the most boring actions in entire game. Also, as already explained above, it's not much profitable per time unit and takes resources.
To me more profitable and more interesting is to harvest raw mats for trade during questing, to get fast & reliable amount of gold.

Brrrofski

I just leave a toon at void level. I have a load of that stuff just lying around. So I use that up and get writs at craglorn. No crashing, nodes everywhere on route because it's dead, nirn which still sells or give it to guildies for research and I'm using up useless mats anyway.

imnotanother

Dubhliam wrote: »

@imnotanother
So if I was, let's say, ask you to craft me a full set of medium Hunding's Rage at CP160, you would not charge me anything since you did not buy the materials needed to craft it, you harvested them for free.

Troll verdict: 3/10

I like your leap in logic.

Learn to craft.

Cryptical

Vangy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

@Vangy @CHIMCHIMCheree

But you never suffer a loss in gold. That is my point. You always profit in both situations.
You assume your materials will sell. It is not a guarantee. Crafting writs are a guarantee.

When farming you literally have 0 expense. Your time and Labor are free.

Gross revenue - expenses =
Net profit.

@imnotanother

Have you tried selling v15 mats? They sell like hot cakes lol. Especially the unrefined ones. Put them on any legit guild trader and they are gone by the end of the day as long as you post them for reasonable prices.......

My friend I am trying to help you here. If you want to refuse the help I understand but the fact still stands, that you are LOSING your precious gold by doing these writs. SAVE YOURSELF WHILE YOU CAN.

P.S -> Jesus..... Labor and time free.... If you tried this in the real world you would be behind bars......

EDIT:

CHIMCHIMCheree wrote: »

You seem like the kind of person who finds $20 on the ground, then exchanges it for $10 and feels awesome about that sweet sweet $10 profit.

^ I know this sounds harsh but the reality of writs is what this guy posted. Your mats are worth more than what writs reward you with which is the exact scenario above.....

The difference of opinion here originated in the difference of when the two of you choose to settle the account, close the business day, count the register, so to speak.

One of you - I'm not going to bother scrolling up for names - is starting the '1 get writ / 2 get resources / 3 fulfill writ' process and is counting the profit left after the 3 steps are complete. The other is starting the same process but is counting the profit only after step 2, and is speculating on the total profit after a different step 3 'sell through guild cart'.

You're having a dumb argument, because you aren't talking about the same thing. And neither of you are wrong, but you both are only right for that exact thing you are focused on.

"Doing the writ" requires doing it completely, no abandoning it in order to redirect mats to a guild trader. If you are taking the mats to the guild trader instead of using them to comets the writ, then you haven't done the writ. Mutual exclusivity.

I personally have an issue with counting profit before it is actually realized, and the "glass half empty" view. Donald trump would have the view that any profit he didn't receive was a loss, I choose to be different than he. Which is why I personally side with accepting that sometimes you don't receive maximum profit, rather than be a money grubber over imaginary money in an imaginary world that only exists as tiny magnetic spots on a hard drive.

Erock25

Heard it here first from @Cryptical . You're basically Donald Trump if you stop doing writs because they're a net loss. Don't be Donald Trump.

raasdal

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

frethopper

I don't doubt anyone saying they lose money on the writs, but I seem to be doing really well on them.

Must admit I haven't actually crunched any numbers. Maybe I'm fooling myself.

Makkir

The craglorn ones are still worthwhile

anitajoneb17_ESO

raasdal wrote: »

What would be able to realluy specify gains/loss is the drop rate of gold temper?

Not only. Back in the days when nirnhoned was a thing, Craglorn writs / surveys gave a real good chance to get nirncrux, which sold for 20K+ at the time, so during that period it was very worth doing surveys.

Also back when Ambrosia recipe fragment were a rare/highly demanded item, it was worth doing cooking writs.

Glass motifs fragments used to be a thing, too...

As I said : conditions vary and change over time. Whether crafting writs are worth it or a plain loss in your particular character's situation, you have to figure out yourself, I guess. At the moment, obviously, the "best" thing you can get out of a writ is a tempering alloy.

Zerok

I understand that max level writs are no longer worth it.

But what about Craglorn writs?

From my own testing earlier this week, I had the feeling they reduced the drop rate for the equipment surveys. I got 1 survey on 9 equipment writs... Usually, I was getting 3-4 surveys per 9 equipment writs. Was it just me being unlucky?

Also in the past 2-3 weeks, I had the impression of getting less nirncrux than usual in Craglorn.

imnotanother

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

Mike_IG

Vangy wrote: »

Just a heads up, I have done all 3 equipment writs across 8 toons over the past 3 days. In a nutshell;

I am now at a net loss of ;
1. Around 50 Rubedite ores per toon --> 400 ore lost
2. Around 40 ash per toon --> 320 ash lost
3. Around 40 silk per toon --> 320 silk lost

In return, I got one wax and one temper --> about 11.5k gold + 660*8*3 = about 27k gold. Bear in mind, tempers and wax are rng so you might not get any.
So breaking it down per toon --> you would lose about 50 of each v15 mat and get around 2k gold in return (not including gold mats) for doing equipment dailies.
You would be better off not relying on RNG and avoiding crafting dailies for equipment writs altogether IMO.

Do at your own risk. Stick to consumables to get kutas at minimal cost. I, personally am going to stop doing any equipment writs until ZOS gets this nonsense sorted.

Am I reading this right, From 24 writs you got 2 gold mats???, If so that seems very low, I know it's RNG but does 2 gold mats in 3 days seem like norm for your 8 toons???.

The reason I ask is that I have 3 toons doing the equipment writs on XB1 at the mo and since July 1st (so 5 weeks) I've got 15 Temper, 14 wax and 12 Rosin (although only just started doing a 3rd wood writ) and that doesn't even include the 5 weeks worth of surveys I have on each toon which will net me some more.
If I had to guess without looking I would of said I average at least 1 gold mat a day from my 3 toons, I honestly don't remember the last time I went more than 2 days without having a gold mat from it. (going by the above figures this appears about right).

24 writs for me is 8 days worth so an average of 1gold mat every 4 days from what I've experienced seems very low, which was why I asked does 2 gold mats in 3 days seem an average for you? as for me thats way out of line so wondered if they had lowered the RNG chances.

Cazzy

imnotanother wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

Freelance? Work from home? I always struggle to get motivated

xericdx

I would rather not participate in the snapping comments that as usual pollute the forum (with all due respect ).
But it would be indeed interesting to calculate the margin we make (or not) on the long run doing writs.

I believe that doing a real cost-opportunity analysis is out of question because you would have to compare the potential profit of the writs with the best single alternative for making money….good luck agreeing on that  (plus, it will depend on the DLC we have, the patients of doing boring but lucrative activities, personal preference because this is a game in the end, etc.).

Talking about blacksmith and clothing….

It would be easy to calculate if we had the probability of the following event:
- Getting an item to deconstruct (and, probability of it being intricate)
- Getting a Glass Fragment
- Getting a survey
- Getting a temper (Gold ones…)
- Not sure we care about the worthless trait material….
- Forgetting anything we can get from writs?
-
Then we would need to calculate the “value” of a survey by knowing the chance of:
- Getting a temper (of each quality)
- Again, I would not care much about the trait material (as well as green temper to be honest)
Having or not the Perk Plentiful harvest should also be taken into consideration….

With all this (if I am not forgetting anything), it will be easy to calculate the average net with MM prices (that will vary depending on the platform/server but that can easily adjusted on a table). With this, we can smile and decide whether or not it is worth its time (waiting for the already announced change in the writs that will improve the situation anyway). Everyone will be happy and free to choose whether to follow some basic economic rules or whatever he/she fancies.

I have unfortunately only 2 toons, one with blacksmith and one with clothing and cannot play every day, meaning that it will take forever for me to get the stats. Do you know if someone already produced something like this or do we have volunteers?
Someone at the beginning said 8 toons and 3 days but each char had both Blacksmith and Clothing? Thanks for the input, that’s a start but we would need more to have the real stats (and from my experience you were very unlucky… sorry).

Erock25

@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.

raasdal

imnotanother wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

In the case of your Blackberry Bushes;

Wether you paid workers to pick the berries, or you did it yourself with only the cost of your time, has no influence on the value of the Berries. You can sell them for the same amount, no matter how they came into your possession.

When you choose to give the berries away, or eat them, they are costing you value. You are eating berries that have a value. You are giving berries away that has a value. When you eat them, or give them away, your personal net worth is diminishing. Your total asset / fortune is getting smaller. Do you get what i am saying here? If you were to die, and you had just eaten 1 ton of berries, with a worth of USD 1000, there would be USD 1000 less for your family when they did your estate up.

There is NO difference in your loss when comparing;

1. Giving away 1 pound of berries at net worth of lets say 10 USD
With
2. Giving away 1 pound of milk ,that you purchased for 10 USD in the grocery market, using money you earned by spending time at your job.

The economic loss is still the same.

But i get where you are coming from. Problem is, you are not able to seperate economics from feelings. You do not feel like you lost anything, because you do not feel like you spent anything on aquiring those berries. But it simply does not matter what you spent, to get what you have. What matters is the value of what you have. It is as simple as that.

But happy berry picking none the less

imnotanother

Erock25 wrote: »

@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.

You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.

I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.

imnotanother

Cazzy wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

Freelance? Work from home? I always struggle to get motivated

I own and operate an independent record label.

reiverx

imnotanother wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

That was a good example of working to generate income.

imnotanother

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

I make money doing writs, more than it cost. (See list and definition above)

Crafting writs have NEVER rewarded more materials than it took to complete the quest.

I feel like I might be the only one that gets it.

No, I understand you. But Vangy has a point.

Depending on the state of the market for mats, it might or might not be more profitable to do the crafting writs or to sell the mats directly. When mats are cheap like now, it's possibly more profitable to do writs. When mats prices are high, it's definitely a loss.

You also have a very good point : crafting writs for equipment have NEVER been a way to gather mats, nor have they ever been meant to. It's merely a sink for extra mats for people who enjoy farming mats.

In short, if you have extra mats stocked up, you can choose between selling them directly or do writs. But if you don't have extra mats and you need to buy them to complete writs, you're better off not doing them at all.

This is only true if you buy your materials. If you farm them, there is not cost to your supply. Both scenarios, writs or straight sale, still would give a farmer pure 100% profit.

The OP's point was saying it is not profitable to do writs and that is a false statement.

My point ha been that farming mats is free. Selling them in any form is pure profit.

I hope you are not in charge of anything financial in any way.

Wether you farm your materials, or you purchase them is irrelevant. When your forgo the net income you would get by selling said materials, you are effectively spending that money. That is a basic financial principle. I can also put it into some everyday concept for you;

You are walking down the street, and find a diamond ring on the pavement. it is worth USD100, which you can get for it, in the pawn store right next to you. Alternatively, you can give it to your girlfriend and make her happy. If you choose to give this to your girlfriend, i imagine you would think that you did not loose any money right? The reality is, that you are actually loosing USD100, by giving it to your girlfriend, instead of selling it.

To put above in perspective; Now, same thing happens, but this time you find a clean 100 USD bill on the floor. Right next to you are the Jewelry store. Now you can either pocket the 100 USD or you can buy the ring for her. Would you still claim that the ring was for free?

In the end, the most basic explanation i can give, is that it does not matter how you earned the value you have - wether is be materials, gold etc. Wether you purchased it, or spend time gathering it. The item you have, have a value, which you are loosing by using it for ANYTHING that is not actually selling said item, and converting it to gold.

Learn to finance...

Thank you for the insults but in your examples, there is never a loss of money on my end. I gain 100 dollars or a happy girlfriend who may reward me infinitely for the gift. I either have a 100 or a diamond ring. But I never did I lose money that was already in my pocket. I gained something.

Now you, and others, say learn to finance. This is a video game were you literally harvest materials from the wild wih a button push. The cost is free because I am not paying the farmer, processor, blacksmith, etc to be able to have the crafting materials. Sure you can say that I could make more selling mats directly, I am not arguing that.

Example
I have thousands of wild blackberry bushes on my property. I go out there in the early summer and am able to pick several pounds (close to 100lbs). This is done on my time for free/fun. My family eats some, we give a lot away to friends/family, and then I sell the rest to my farmers market for money. With your logic, I lost money instead of making a profit. But my heavy wallet says differently.

But like I said, thank you for your concern over my business handling abilities. I'll ensure my employees that you are paying their paychecks this week, since you know more.

In the case of your Blackberry Bushes;

Wether you paid workers to pick the berries, or you did it yourself with only the cost of your time, has no influence on the value of the Berries. You can sell them for the same amount, no matter how they came into your possession.

When you choose to give the berries away, or eat them, they are costing you value. You are eating berries that have a value. You are giving berries away that has a value. When you eat them, or give them away, your personal net worth is diminishing. Your total asset / fortune is getting smaller. Do you get what i am saying here? If you were to die, and you had just eaten 1 ton of berries, with a worth of USD 1000, there would be USD 1000 less for your family when they did your estate up.

There is NO difference in your loss when comparing;

1. Giving away 1 pound of berries at net worth of lets say 10 USD
With
2. Giving away 1 pound of milk ,that you purchased for 10 USD in the grocery market, using money you earned by spending time at your job.

The economic loss is still the same.

But i get where you are coming from. Problem is, you are not able to seperate economics from feelings. You do not feel like you lost anything, because you do not feel like you spent anything on aquiring those berries. But it simply does not matter what you spent, to get what you have. What matters is the value of what you have. It is as simple as that.

But happy berry picking none the less

Thanks. I'll run what you said by my CPA.

kylewwefan

You can respec your characters to lev 9 crafting for those to save some good mats. I know it's not a good solution, but something you could do til they get things straightened out. Im not sure if you get the same gold and chances of legendary upgrades?

Erock25

imnotanother wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

@imnotanother still doesn't get it. I wonder how many people it would take telling him he's wrong to change his mind. Your BlackBerry analogy is flawed because this conversation about crafting writs is in the context of maximizing profit. Sure you made money on your BlackBerrys, but you did not maximize your profits. No one is trying to tell you that if you harvest your own mats that at the end of the day you'll have negative gold. They're telling you that you'd have more gold (over the long run) by selling the unrefined or refined mats directly instead of doing the writ.

You need to go back a read because I've only been stating that you make a profit doing writs as well as selling directly.

I never said writs earn more gold. Just said they are still profitable. Everyone is arguing that you lose money.

You lose money compared to if you would just sell the mats. I understand your position, that harvesting mats doesn't bother you so no matter what you win. You're being intentionally obtuse though if you don't understand what everyone else is saying in that after you have the mats harvested, you'd be better off financially just selling them and not doing the writ.