The Impenetrable Trait & Item Sets

Wollust

Impen is a vital trait for one big part of the game and deserves its place on all loot tables, especially if you consider the fact that a lot of the PvE dropped sets are of no use for PvE but make up for fantastic combinations in PvP. And you please every player who does not strictly seperate the game into PvP and PvE, and I believe that is a big community of players.
More people doing the content for whatever reason is always good.
You have a fantastic chance here to increase build variety by so much by simply adding this one trait to all loot tables. Use it.

Training is an awesome trait! However, it is not required on cap level end game gear. It has its place on crafted gear and on gear below 160 CP but nowhere else. Therefore, it should be removed from all loot tables on 160 CP.

Prosperous is a bad trait no matter what. You can save more gold by using Impen instead of Prosperous. The only way I see this trait getting useful is if farmable mobs with +100 gold drops are introduced. Which will never happen because inflation would rekt the economy. This trait gets its place on craftable gear and nowhere else. It has to be removed. It only causes frustration.

Remove 2 traits and add 1. You'll make the most people happy that way. You'll create a much better game with this simple step.
Afterwards, we can have discussions about trait changes or appropriate traits for each weight. But this is a good first step (together with the BoP tradeable gear) to improve the RNG and improve the game's build variety.

Cazzy

Yes to Impenetrable for ALL drops and removing Prosperous and Training!

chimneyswift_ESO

Yes, removing Prosperous and Training on all end-game sets (Trials, Dungeons, Monster Sets, VMA, etc.) is so needed. Leave those 2 traits as crafted only for those that want to use them. People hate nothing more than spending their valuable time to get gear that has a trait they'll never use. I understand you want some incentive, and can't give everyone an Infused head each run, but that's what Well-Fitted, Sturdy, and Reinforced are for. Those traits are still somewhat useful, and in certain builds more useful than others, such as a well-fitted roll dodge build or something. But by and large players prefer Infused & Divines (PvE) and Impen (PvP). So those are the desired traits. Nothing is a bigger kick in the nuts than getting the piece you want...but it's in Training or Prosperous.

BigBragg

I agree with taking Prosperous and Training off of all 160 CP loot tables, and adding Impenetrable in their place.

bebynnag

remove prosperous & training from all CR160 drop items.

include impen in all CR160 drop items

include sturdy in ALL CR160 heavy BoP drop sets

remove CR150 quest rewards for CR160 players (talking about things like wrothgar dailies here)

(edt: sorry this sounds a bit rude, but im too tired to be more polite)

svartorn

I support the removal of training/prosperous and the adding of impen for every set.

Here here! *raises glass*

*dreams of spell power cure impen set*

DPShiro

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

Ignore this guy please. More people doing the content is a good thing, and at least impen will give you more benefit than well fitted by saving you a bit of gold on repairs. If you are dodging enough in pve to need well fitted you're doing it wrong.

Oh I completely missed that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom only asked for your opinion, and not everyone's.

If I could choose, I would only have Divines, Infused as drops, as they are the only ones I use. But seeing as that isn't an option, I gave my opinion.

I consider well fitted, prosperous, training and impenetrable etc all equally useless, and would never use them.

Ghost-Shot

DPShiro wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

Ignore this guy please. More people doing the content is a good thing, and at least impen will give you more benefit than well fitted by saving you a bit of gold on repairs. If you are dodging enough in pve to need well fitted you're doing it wrong.

Oh I completely missed that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom only asked for your opinion, and not everyone's.

If I could choose, I would only have Divines, Infused as drops, as they are the only ones I use. But seeing as that isn't an option, I gave my opinion.

I consider well fitted, prosperous, training and impenetrable etc all equally useless, and would never use them.

Well I'm glad we could clarify, now move along.

DPShiro

Sandman929 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

You'd rather have something you consider useless...and everyone considers useless, than have something that others don't consider useless. Interesting.

I said that for me, everything except a few like Divines, Infused etc are equally worthless.
Actually training might be preferred to impenetrable.

DPShiro

rhapsodious wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

Not everyone wants to run a set that can only be obtained by PVP in PVP, though. Some sets work well in both modes, or can be obtained by one but work well in the other. I use Black Rose for PVE tanking but you can only get it from IC, a PVP zone. Likewise, things like monster sets or SPC are equally useful in PVP and PVE, but the latter can only be obtained in PVE. Adding Impenetrable back to PVE sets would make a lot of people happy.

Nothing is stopping you, use whatever set you want!
But impenetrable is useless in PVE, and since I don't PVP I don't want it any more than other useless ones.

BigBragg

DPShiro wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

Not everyone wants to run a set that can only be obtained by PVP in PVP, though. Some sets work well in both modes, or can be obtained by one but work well in the other. I use Black Rose for PVE tanking but you can only get it from IC, a PVP zone. Likewise, things like monster sets or SPC are equally useful in PVP and PVE, but the latter can only be obtained in PVE. Adding Impenetrable back to PVE sets would make a lot of people happy.

Nothing is stopping you, use whatever set you want!
But impenetrable is useless in PVE, and since I don't PVP I don't want it any more than other useless ones.

While each person has thier own tastes in what they like, reducing the amount of unused traits by a net of one on a table should still be desirable to you. It will increase the chances of acquiring the traits you do desire.

DPShiro

BigBragg wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Remove Training and Prosperous, but don't add Impenetrable please.
Keep Impenetrable on PVP sets for those that play that mode, but don't force us PVE players to get that crap.
I'd rather have well fitted or something equally useless than Impenetrable.

Not everyone wants to run a set that can only be obtained by PVP in PVP, though. Some sets work well in both modes, or can be obtained by one but work well in the other. I use Black Rose for PVE tanking but you can only get it from IC, a PVP zone. Likewise, things like monster sets or SPC are equally useful in PVP and PVE, but the latter can only be obtained in PVE. Adding Impenetrable back to PVE sets would make a lot of people happy.

Nothing is stopping you, use whatever set you want!
But impenetrable is useless in PVE, and since I don't PVP I don't want it any more than other useless ones.

While each person has thier own tastes in what they like, reducing the amount of unused traits by a net of one on a table should still be desirable to you. It will increase the chances of acquiring the traits you do desire.

Of course, I have no problem with removing two, adding one. I just stated my opinion, like we were asked to, and I personally see no value in a PVP trait from PVE content.

starkerealm

So... stupid thought, but what if, instead of getting mistraited items we could get a token system where we could actually pick the right trait and weight for the head piece we just got. And instead of just randomly cracking chests, we could pick a shoulder piece's weight and trait?

Grumble_and_Grunt

YES to removing training and prosperous on end game gear.
YES to including impenetrable to ALL item sets.
NO to excluding impenetrable from end game trials sets.

Now ZOS have finally responded to feedback regarding impenetrable with this thread it simply has to happen. Not removing training and prosperous will simply infuriate numerous players, given the RNG system, but not going through with at least adding impen to the loot tables and especially the comment about not including them on end game trials gear is basically casting aside and segregating the whole PvP community on the basis of what?

If training and prosperous is removed the chances of dropping a Divine piece (most desirable trait for PvE) is significantly increased, so the argument about diluting the RNG system with more needless traits such as impenetrable is not a valid argument in my opinion. Even the argument about how impenetrable is not valuable in PvE because mobs do not crit therefore should not drop is invalid and seriously concerns me and frustrates me at the whole PvP/PvE division in the community. Yes some prefer one aspect of the game to the other. But a lot of members of community still enjoy both, the items were previously BoE so there is money to be made regardless if you were to drop a piece in impenetrable since the PvP players who do not enjoy the PvE aspect of the game can still have access and PvE players are still rewarded. So ZOS DO NOT make ALL sets BoP this gives values to either side.

As @Wollust highlighted in going forward and about the game as a whole there are a lot of unique items sets in the game likewise in trials that are just that unique. Unique in PvE is not necessarily important if at all in comparison to min/max is. So a lot of the unique sets are wasted and just another dilution to loot tables. Min/max players will still choose TBS over most of the sets and even if new sets were to replace TBS still the point I make that PvE gear is always funnelled into what's mathematically superior to achieve max dps or buff support. Why as on the other hand PvP is in some aspects min/max to a great extent also if you build that way. Though it is also situational. PvP is not controlled therefore unique builds have a niche here for effectiveness and for FUN. Of course you can do the same in PvE too, but there is less desire or need, but that point is irrelevant because if you wanted to you could. Impenetrable is the most desirable trait in PvP hands down. It opens up a lot of opportunities for various fun builds for various situation which all helps for more interesting PvP encounters and less stagnant ones. This thread as you can see from PvP community has generated a lot of excitement because of this. So I see no valid reason to segregating the impenetrable trait on trials gear because that then voids all the new sets for one half of the community and has no diabolical impact on the other either. All parties win, besides those using prosperous gear I guess... Unless anyone disagrees and would like to propose a counter argument to what I and numerous others have said about it.

Sedrethi

I'm probably just echoing the sentiments of many players in this thread already, but I figure I may as well add my on input on the subject.

First and foremost, this should apply to ALL end-game dropped sets that use the variable trait system. Trials aside, that includes dungeons, undaunted chests, containers such as those that drop Bahraha's Curse or Flanking Strategist, enemy loot, etc.

Prosperous is a trait that was added that was supposed to be an improvement to what it was prior, which I don't believe it has achieved. It's especially foolish to have a non-combative trait on end-game equipment that was meant to be used in combat. It's self-defeating and both a hindrance and annoyance; a slap in the face after completing a difficult task for many.

Training is a little more useful, but hardly serves a purpose once one has reached the content cap.

Impenetrable—and Sturdy where applicable, if not already included—would be a decent step towards getting away from the two dreaded "garbage" traits, as it gives the poor tanks a little bit more variety and the PvP-ers some added survival.

If possible, some thematic choices that (somewhat) fit the traits with their armor's "role" would be interesting. Such as:

• Light — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Nirnhoned? (probably unlikely)
• Medium — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Well-fitted
• Heavy — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Reinforced, Sturdy

Finally, although not necessarily related, could the Imperial City Prison and White-Gold Tower trophy vault chest be revisited? For some time now, they've been dropping items in the Breton motif (bleh) style, rather than their usual Xivkyn.

NagualV

I will say that training and prosperous need to be removed from trial sets. Probably anything CP 160.

Impenetrable should be a trait that is available for all sets.

Thank you all for listening to the community, it is much appreciated.

Waseem

Armors:
remove prosperous and training from everything outside the champion levels..
improve drop rates to favour most desired trait, for example, people like divines.. make the overall chance for a dropped piece to be divines 30% instead of equally dividing same drop chance on all items.
also, consider adding sturdy to any set that can be used for tanking ( no light armor shall drop in sturdy for example)

Weapons:
adjust the drop chances of endgame weapons. we DO NOT want a destruction staff to have the powered(increase healing) trait . and treat the weapons drop chances as mentioned above, people like sharpened and precise... make the chance to acquire weapons with those traits more than the chance to aquire a defending/infused trait.
remove the infused trait from vMA loot table because it misses the Maelstrom enchantment (?)

in short, favor the most demanded traits by giving them higher chances to drop and delete the totally unnecessary traits.

HoolDog

Remove prosperous and training... Worthless at CP 160.

Add impen back to all loot tables otherwise most Pvp players have no reason to do trails, dungeons, trials. Impen is a very important trait to a large player base. Having to wait for a random trader to even have a chance at one impen impen monster piece is shocking... Especially when the trader is obsessed with maw of the infernal.

Personofsecrets

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please be aware that many players would gladly pay $50 for a forge that has the capability of changing item traits and appearances.

Changing traits, this would ruin end-game grinding. Changing appearance, i would like this for monster sets and dropped sets.

Now back to discussion.

Please, please, please, please, please ruin end game grinding

>ruin

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno , please consider passing on the idea that players should have a way of increasing the level of their item.

Level item increase, trait change, jewelry trait change, jewelry, and appearance change crafting would be the greatest quality of life update to happen to this game ever.

Forztr

The fact you even have to ask the question just shows how clueless you are about your own game.

me_ming

1. Definitely, DEFINITELY remove training and prosperous. Thank you. >.<

2. Bring back impen to PvE content would be amazing, as some players do PvE and PvP contents of the game. Not only that it will attract hardcore PvP players to at least try trials.

Curragraigue

Remove prosperous and training from end game drops. Add impenetrable to end game loot tables.

starkerealm

Sedrethi wrote: »

If possible, some thematic choices that (somewhat) fit the traits with their armor's "role" would be interesting. Such as:

• Light — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Nirnhoned? (probably unlikely)
• Medium — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Well-fitted
• Heavy — Divines, Infused, Impenetrable, Reinforced, Sturdy

Honestly, it wouldn't be the worst thing to start sticking Nirn in more places. If only to give players more research options. I mean, some people would complain, but there's no helping that. And that is a trait that's useful to have researched (if not so much with actually using).

starkerealm

me_ming wrote: »

1. Definitely, DEFINITELY remove training and prosperous. Thank you. >.<

2. Bring back impen to PvE content would be amazing, as some players do PvE and PvP contents of the game. Not only that it will attract hardcore PvP players to at least try trials.

Well, also now that Impen isn't completely non-functional in PvE.

redspecter23

Adding Impen is a nice gesture and thinking about removing Training and Prosperous has me absolutely giddy. However, please understand this is a band aid solution. The best situation is one where EVERY trait is desirable so you don't even have to think about excluding any of them because players want them all at least in some situation. If you solve that core issue, then these other collateral issues all disappear.

We have a running gag among groups that so and so got another useless Prosperous item or just auto decon all these items that are little better than trash. We should be happy about the loot we get, not making jokes about the itemization team behind their backs.

OrphanHelgen

actually, vicious ophidian prosperous is actually a nice gear for gold farm... if gold farm was a think from mobs.

a_hero

Edit: Double post

a_hero

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

-Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials

I agree with the idea behind this but I also wouldn't mind Trials loot including the Impenetrable trait in place of Prosperous and Training.

-Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

This. 100%. I would also love for both of these traits to be removed from the Undaunted key loot rewards and Impenetrable to be added in their place.

There is no reason for Prosperous and/or Training to be on end game gear in my opinion.

code65536

Add Impenetrable to ALL endgame content. Trials, ICP/WGT/Cradle/Mazzatun, Undaunted chests.

-AND-

Remove Prosperous from ALL endgame content.

Additionally, I'd also love to see Training removed from all endgame content, but between Training and Prosperous, the latter is by far the more useless one.