Cyrodiil, Cheating/Exploiting, & You

blindy107

The difference is, my "company" didn't hand me the pipe.

Robbmrp

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, @Wrobel

Regardless of the current situation on these exploits they need to be fixed. Update ALL gap closers so that their travel distance is shorter than the length of a keep wall. This will ensure that no one can fly up to keep walls and outpost desks as they are much higher.

Malubeth, if people are getting a 6k tick every second and I've seen screen prints showing 11k ticks, reduce the healing by 90% on the tick. Problem solved.

Any "exploit" regardless of how it entered into the game needs to be the top priority for resolution as they are very detrimental to the game. They help people complete content easier than intended with really high leader board scores. They let people amass massive amounts of AP that guarantee's that they can keep Emp for the entirety of the campaign.

It's time that these things are fixed asap in the weekly patches. Fixes on these cannot take months and months.

There should also be a written form of disciplinary action for people that use these exploits. The first action should be a warning to stop it immediately or face a minimum of a 3 day ban and loss of AP gained over the past 3 days. The second action being probation for the use of the exploit to last 30 days. Any repeat usage of the exploit after the 3 day ban turns into a 2 week ban and loss of all AP gained during the probation period. This will ensure that this player cannot return and easily become Emp again without effort. Any repeat usage of exploits after a player has received a 2 week ban and any point, even a year later should result in a permanent ban as it shows consistency. They care nothing for the rules and are only trying to take short cut cheats in the game.

No one wants to lose AP and that may be one of the best actions to take against players who use exploits. Why should they get to keep the massive AP that the gained unfairly.

The bottom line is they shouldn't.

Lava_Croft

darjobuno wrote: »

Okay been reviewing all the threads again, and I am fairly sold that the Add-On portion of the system should just be disabled completely in the PvP arena. If no third party programs are available for use you eliminate the chance of cheating.

Only things I see suffering from this is Add-Ons like skyshards, lorebooks, publicdungeonchampion, and Auto Invite. Any other Add-On especially ones that alter the UI create a potential for cheating.

The combat add-ons just eat up processing anyway.

So just turn off the Add-Ons in the PvP sandbox. Problem solved.

I applaud the attempt, but you have no clue what you are talking about. Anything the add-on API can do is not in any way considered a cheat. This thread is about exploiting in-game bugs, using external third-party programs to cheat and how ZOS is never really going to permaban you for exploiting or cheating, as long as you don't have an offensive character name and don't disturb other people's role playing events.

OtarTheMad

bikerangelo wrote: »

Oh please, you need to help us "curb this behavior." Fix the problem, end the witch hunts, implement anti-cheat software (like you should have at the game's inception), and earn our trust back.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account.

You can't be serious with this. Going underground, gap closing into loading screens, those are all accidental occurences and are never intentional. Citing these as bannable offenses is just offensive. Your combat team made these changes and we gave them feedback on the PTS, yet it's our fault when we use basic mechanics that we can't avoid?

How much more tacky can your policies get? Admit you made a mistake, admit you didn't take our feedback seriously, then fix the problem. Geezus.

EDIT: I missed this gem for some reason.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

Translation: if you see someone who's doing something that remotely looks like cheating, you are at 100% liberty to report them for, potentially, a permanent ban. Have fun in pvp, you could be surrounded by hundreds of cheaters and exploiters whom we will ban at your discretion.

G. G.

While I do mostly agree with what you said because I saw what they were doing with gap closers when it was in PTS and saw how many called it out but what I don't think you see is the underground thing.

What certain groups/guilds were doing was getting under the world in certain locations to make themselves somewhat invincible. Even if they died, the person who was underground and not dead would rez everyone and then they would stay underground almost barely able to be attacked but yet they could attack you... sometimes the group that exploited under the world would chain pull you into them and then kill you and since it's a outnumbered situation you wouldn't be able to do much. It's not like the group who got underground would simply do /stuck and report it... no... they'd stay there for a while and be (basically) unkillable and proceed to kill enemies fairly easily.

Also players were using gap closers to get into keeps without attacking the keep itself and in some cases it was the Emperor who did so and would stay there on purpose and kill anyone who showed up. That is not an accidental occurrence, the player knew what they were doing, knew it was an exploit and didn't care and did it multiple times.

OtarTheMad

Sharee wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

If I accidentally misclick my gap-close button and charge onto a keep wall (it's really that easy to do), does that mean I'm at risk of being banned if someone reports me?

Should we all unslot Critical Charge until this mess is fixed?

If you accidentally charge onto a keep wall, just jump right off. You won't get banned without video evidence, and if the video shows you jumping off the wall right after you got there, it will be clear that you got there unintentionally.

^ THIS

I accidentally gap closed into an outpost because I hit the 2 key (which was Explosive Charge) instead of 3 (which was Javelin) I immediately jumped off the roof and even whispered the player I hit saying "sorry, didn't mean to jump in the keep". I hope by admitting this I don't get in trouble because I meant to knock the guy that was on the grate off of it and to the ground... not jump in.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom What about using Dragon Leap to get into a keep. That has been debated for years and never really got an answer. Someone said it was an exploit and someone else said because it's an ultimate it's sort of okay. Some clarity would be cool. Thank you.

Lil_Willie

Thanks for taking the time to talk about nothing because if ZOS was all so serious about the gap closing issue, it would've been patched a while ago

Junipus

Alcast wrote: »

1 Forumpost and everything is good? 99% of ESO Players do NOT EVEN READ THE FORUM.

I'm sure it's a lot less than 99%, especially since most PvP guilds know about it and the exploiting information is shared within zone chat everytime it happens. If you spent time in Cyrodiil in between PvE runs you'd see that.

Less hyperbole and more using your media to advertise to your followers that ZOS now sees such things as bannable offences. Seems like the right thing to do eh Alcast?

_Chaos

Junipus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

1 Forumpost and everything is good? 99% of ESO Players do NOT EVEN READ THE FORUM.

I'm sure it's a lot less than 99%, especially since most PvP guilds know about it and the exploiting information is shared within zone chat everytime it happens. If you spent time in Cyrodiil in between PvE runs you'd see that.

Less hyperbole and more using your media to advertise to your followers that ZOS now sees such things as bannable offences. Seems like the right thing to do eh Alcast?

OR they have an in-game message every time you enter Cyrodiil. Or an in-game mail.
gtfo with your "use your media" bs

Publius_Scipio

Let disciplinary actions for things such as gap closer mechanic exploits be the law of the land going forward, let the retroactive stuff go.

3rd party cheat software bans should continue (and continue aggressively). Those banned for cheat engine should have never been allowed to return to the game. Those individuals literally knowingly sought out and acquired software that would manipulate the way the game functioned to their advantage. Sit back and think about it. They literally used 3rd party software titled Cheat Engine. Those players (men and women alike) are digital bums and disrespected the men and women of ZOS, fellow players, and ESO itself. They should be banned never to return.

Within the game client, login screen, and IN-GAME MAIL (which ZOS should send every so often. Not a hassle to delete a mail message after having read it once before) sent to all players. All these posts/messages should link to the forums, specifically the op of this thread.

Ahk1lleez

Here's an idea for a simple way to solve this problem. Raise the height of the walls so the people standing on them would be out of range of gap closing abilities. Understandably this would have the consequence of those attacking the keep having to be closer to the wall itself to attack anyone standing on it, but this could help to get people to stop standing on the walls when they should be on the ground fighting. This way you won't have to roll back your improvements on gap closers firing more consistently and no one would be able to exploit their way into keeps.

ToRelax

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

Here's an idea for a simple way to solve this problem. Raise the height of the walls so the people standing on them would be out of range of gap closing abilities. Understandably this would have the consequence of those attacking the keep having to be closer to the wall itself to attack anyone standing on it, but this could help to get people to stop standing on the walls when they should be on the ground fighting. This way you won't have to roll back your improvements on gap closers firing more consistently and no one would be able to exploit their way into keeps.

Now if only redesigning keeps was a simple solution.

Lava_Croft

I think the only real solution is to buff StamBlades.

Ackwalan

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

Here's an idea for a simple way to solve this problem. Raise the height of the walls so the people standing on them would be out of range of gap closing abilities. Understandably this would have the consequence of those attacking the keep having to be closer to the wall itself to attack anyone standing on it, but this could help to get people to stop standing on the walls when they should be on the ground fighting. This way you won't have to roll back your improvements on gap closers firing more consistently and no one would be able to exploit their way into keeps.

Maybe a moat could be added.

Rohamad_Ali

The silence from ZOS on gap closer fixes is really bad . Someone should at least say they're working on it or they gave up . Making clear rules on broken mechanics is great , never fixing the problem is terrible .

TankinDat

Why is a mechanic, gap closing to fly into keeps, that was brought up to you on the PTS a month before it was released to live considered exploiting now? You cannot retroactively ban people for a mistake on your part. It should have been removed/fixed in the PTS when this was brought to your attention. It should have never made it to the live servers. And what about teleport strike or any morph of it for nightblades? It is considered a 'gap closer' but it literally is supposed to teleport you to an enemy. Is that an exploit? The way 'gap closers are exploits' is worded is so vague and the way your pushing the blame onto the player is, in all honestly, appalling. What about someone who doesn't even come onto the forums to read what you consider an exploit? How are they supposed to know? You really dropped the ball on this one ZOS and the blame for something like this is on you and should not be pushed onto the player for your laziness. Very disappointed in how you are handling this. When it is brought up on the PTS, you should handle it accordingly. Not push it to live and go, 'OH WELL! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU USE IT! BANNED!' That whole concept is ridiculous.

Lore_lai

Wait.
You're RETROACTIVELY banning people for your own mistakes and sloppy coding (which was even reported to you but you let it go live)?
And you're not even delivering what you now consider an exploit through the proper channels.
In game. Everyone should get a message in game. An email, a splash screen, anything. Not here on the forums where you are not even told that you have to check to keep up to date with the rules.
If you decide to deliver these via-forums then ALL of your users have to be notified in-game that this place is where you announce stuff like this.

Meanwhile people who used Cheat Engine are getting un-banned.
SMH.

MoreDino

The only person I know of that's been permabanned was for violating the ToS. What that means, I have no idea and it's not my place to speculate. As far as I know, nobody has been banned retroactively for gap closing into keeps.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

roehamid alley cat

behavioral controls are easier to implement than engineering controls. I think the exploit notice will buy zennymacks moar thyme to feex the giap closures.

... oh and i have it on good authority that if you take the bell off of your collar, your sneak will improve.

Alishka_Gunter

MoreDino wrote: »

The only person I know of that's been permabanned was for violating the ToS. What that means, I have no idea and it's not my place to speculate. As far as I know, nobody has been banned retroactively for gap closing into keeps.

This is correct. Two players were banned, neither retroactively. One was back after their three day hiatus and has since not gap closed into walls. The other was perma-banned for circumventing his first ban.

Roechacca

Interesting read.

Some_Guy

Just read an article about people abusing the ToS of the new Pokemon Go app and the words "swift" and "without mercy" were used in reference to the topic of Niantic banning said individuals.
Someone should be taking notes

ZoM_Head

I actually have a list of players that are constantly exploting this gap closer into keeps, before and after this thread was created.

I also made note of some players that were banned for using a cheat engine and currently back in game.

Seriously Zenimax, you really need to take this seriously, and stop saying things like "we know, we are working on it", actually take action.

I have a screenshot and video of every single one of the players that exploited with gap closers, some are even well known PvP players as well, and no matter what they still abuse it.

This is very very common now on Trueflame EU, please take this seriously, but in all honestly it is your fault Zenimax to begin with because we gave you ALL the feedback back on PTS and you still did not do anything about it and pushed it on live.

The Uninvited

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Is the CP160 loot drop in Sanctum Ophidia, when scaled to below level 50, considered an exploit/bug?

_Chaos

The Uninvited wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Is the CP160 loot drop in Sanctum Ophidia, when scaled to below level 50, considered an exploit/bug?

HUSH YOU

The Uninvited

_Chaos wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

Is the CP160 loot drop in Sanctum Ophidia, when scaled to below level 50, considered an exploit/bug?

HUSH YOU

Just don't want some friends banned

donJay

Just stopping by to say that if you used cheat engine even once, you should be permabanned with absolutely no unbanning. This should be a ruthless and nondiscriminatory process by Zos, which I've heard they have failed to follow through. Don't compromise the integrity of the staff nor the game because "you feel bad" or for whatever reason the unbanning was called upon. Second chances to cheaters are for games who deserve a *** legacy with no looking back.

Rylana

donJay wrote: »

Just stopping by to say that if you used cheat engine even once, you should be permabanned with absolutely no unbanning. This should be a ruthless and nondiscriminatory process by Zos, which I've heard they have failed to follow through. Don't compromise the integrity of the staff nor the game because "you feel bad" or for whatever reason the unbanning was called upon. Second chances to cheaters are for games who deserve a *** legacy with no looking back.

This.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes please stop unbanning cheat engine users @ZOS_JessicaFolsom . It's not like they go "oops , my finger slipped on the cheat engine button , my bad ..." . It's a lot more deliberate .

altemriel

ZoM_Head wrote: »

I actually have a list of players that are constantly exploting this gap closer into keeps, before and after this thread was created.

I also made note of some players that were banned for using a cheat engine and currently back in game.

Seriously Zenimax, you really need to take this seriously, and stop saying things like "we know, we are working on it", actually take action.

I have a screenshot and video of every single one of the players that exploited with gap closers, some are even well known PvP players as well, and no matter what they still abuse it.

This is very very common now on Trueflame EU, please take this seriously, but in all honestly it is your fault Zenimax to begin with because we gave you ALL the feedback back on PTS and you still did not do anything about it and pushed it on live.

that is really great that you have screenshots and the list, but do not post it only here, use the reporting tool in the game and spam zos with screenshots and names every day!!!

maybe they wake up and take some action finally!!

good luck and thank you!!!

Crom_CCCXVI

A dragon leap up into a keep is now an exploit?

I always assumed that was intentional. wow