Cyrodiil, Cheating/Exploiting, & You

Alishka_Gunter

Why is anyone even remotely using the argument "we told you in PTS, it's not our fault!!! Fix your game" ?

Seriously.

I guarantee you that you will not be banned if you ambush a dude through a postern by mistake and make an effort to leave the keep asap. Same for the mistaken critical rushes I to outposts through the grate or up onto walls via the stairs. If it accidentally happens, just jump off. Christ people. It's really simple.

The bans to at least two "infamous" DC members on azuras star was due to rampant abuse of the exploit while being emperor and having a heal bot (and others but they weren't caught) go into walls to clear it out. They did this to AD and EP multiple times. Screenshot of conversations with them admitting to knowing it was an exploit but they didn't care because Zos wouldn't do anything about it - or - using the excuse "zos put it in the game so it's ok to use" were what would have gotten them banned. Or it could have been the seven videos I knew about that were submitted clearly showing them running up to the walls, getting into a specific position to gap close onto them. My personal favourite was watching the emperor use the mages at the front gates of a keep, he presumed was empty but was actually being recorded (lol), to get into a keep while no one was there.

To compound this fact, these two players were told it was officially labelled an exploit and to check the forums yet they continued to do so.

The bans that were handed out recently were not from one off, mistaken gap closures into a keep. They were done by two very experienced members from a well known guild on all NA servers to grief and troll other players. They openly admitted to this many times, even on these forums.

Pls note this was typed on my cell and wasn't checked for spelling or grammar lol

Stratforge

wtb a wall of shame for devs who knowingly implement broken mechanics and then ban people for using them

darjobuno

Cheating and Exploiting....

I will try very hard to behave myself and not be too much of a turd. Please be aware my history with the game runs very deep. I have played since the start with one account or another. This is what I see and have seen in that time.

Spamming cinema killing skills to remove threats via game mechanics.(cheat)
Use of skills to fly up onto walls of castles. (cheat)
I have seen one vet eliminate 5 well made vets hardly losing any life bar at all. (cheat)
I have fought individuals 1 on 1 in areas where AOE only effected the two of us nearly had them dead and suddenly as if the flick of a switch my screen started freezing and I suddenly was hit with 10 attacks and died. (cheat)
I have watched DC attack a castle while EP took out the resources (cheat)
I have spoken with guilds in PvP who will "TRAIN" you to fight in PvP before you get to join in battles with them. This training consists of learning skills that effect cinema and the proper way to apply those skills to do so (cheat)

I have a super easy fix for this issue. Won't take anything away from your current programming. Won't cost you any major reprogramming time.

Remove the ability to use add-ons. Then add in a third party detector to the system that instantly bans anyone trying to fuss with the game's function. Problem solved. If you don't want to apply this to the whole game, apply it to just the PvP section of the game to promote a safe and fair gaming arena.

Rohamad_Ali

Jazbay_Grape wrote: »

I'm not smart enough to do any of these things. Plus, I'm pretty much just an AP PEZ dispenser.

You can group with me anytime .

doublestuffed

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.

Please tell the devs to fix gap closers this patch. I have little faith in you guys already. What if I accidentally gap close into a keep? Will I get banned? You're losing my trust quickly.

AJ_1988

Alishka_Gunter wrote: »

Why is anyone even remotely using the argument "we told you in PTS, it's not our fault!!! Fix your game" ?

Seriously.

I guarantee you that you will not be banned if you ambush a dude through a postern by mistake and make an effort to leave the keep asap. Same for the mistaken critical rushes I to outposts through the grate or up onto walls via the stairs. If it accidentally happens, just jump off. Christ people. It's really simple.

The bans to at least two "infamous" DC members on azuras star was due to rampant abuse of the exploit while being emperor and having a heal bot (and others but they weren't caught) go into walls to clear it out. They did this to AD and EP multiple times. Screenshot of conversations with them admitting to knowing it was an exploit but they didn't care because Zos wouldn't do anything about it - or - using the excuse "zos put it in the game so it's ok to use" were what would have gotten them banned. Or it could have been the seven videos I knew about that were submitted clearly showing them running up to the walls, getting into a specific position to gap close onto them. My personal favourite was watching the emperor use the mages at the front gates of a keep, he presumed was empty but was actually being recorded (lol), to get into a keep while no one was there.

To compound this fact, these two players were told it was officially labelled an exploit and to check the forums yet they continued to do so.

The bans that were handed out recently were not from one off, mistaken gap closures into a keep. They were done by two very experienced members from a well known guild on all NA servers to grief and troll other players. They openly admitted to this many times, even on these forums.

Pls note this was typed on my cell and wasn't checked for spelling or grammar lol

Love it, I've done a similar thing where someone has faction swapped to allow their mates to get into the keep and get the scroll. Little do they know. I was stealthed recording it and as they ran fine the stairs they were met by a bunch of people and ballistas lol. They didn't know what to do and ran off with their tails between their legs only to have another group waiting up top. Karma is awesome.

Hookgrin

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

"We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed..."

...

"...do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban..."

So do you "generally frown upon it" < or > "Don't do it. If we catch you ... even once ...action up to and including a permanent ban..."

These two paragraphs are describing the same thing but express ZOS's view on it at about 160 degrees opposite of each other. This kind of fudgeyness leads to issues later on.

TrueGreenSmoker

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Glad to see the rules get a stickie . I hope an ingame message goes out for those not using forums .

I agree if something is broken and seen as an exploit and people dont read the forums then do a message Pop up on PC/Console everytime you log in to keep us reminded

Alishka_Gunter

Hookgrin wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

"We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed..."

...

"...do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban..."

So do you "generally frown upon it" < or > "Don't do it. If we catch you ... even once ...action up to and including a permanent ban..."

These two paragraphs are describing the same thing but express ZOS's view on it at about 160 degrees opposite of each other. This kind of fudgeyness leads to issues later on.

Whether they frown on it or take action is irrelevant if you aren't trying to exploit, cheat, abuse mechanics or harass others. They will not ban folks for accidental incidents! if it happens, jump off the ledge or if you went through the postern then make every attempt to leave the keep immediately. Don't try to gang people, just leave.

Orchish

You need to be REALLY careful about labelling players exploiters and banning them for things such as being underground. If i play on average 4-5 hours per day. I can find my self falling through the floor at least once per day when using Stampede on inclines which by the way 90% of the time no longer work since the changes to gap closers.

How on earth is it we have ended up with gap closers allowing us to fly up onto keeps with a single button press yet completely failing to work on the smallest of inclines in the open fields of Cyrodiil. Now we are told we can be banned for this. This is widespread i see COUNTLESS players doing it every day, and i refuse to report anyone because i believe this is soemthing ZoS needs to patch right away and not wait for the next DLC. I Seriously do not understand why things like this are not hotfixed and instead we must wait months for a potential fix. Going by past expereinces the potential fix will likely break something else.

TheValkyn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Lately, we’ve seen a lot of questions about what we consider cheating and/or exploiting in ESO. The amount of people using exploits, especially in Cyrodiil, has also been on the rise. Due to this, and our recent efforts to take a stronger stance against exploiting and cheating in ESO, this has become a hotly debated topic within our community. We’d like to help shed some light on what we consider cheating and exploiting and how you can help us curb this behavior.

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) using third party tools or taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities. In plain English: if it looks or feels like cheating, then try it out at your own risk. Or better yet, don’t try it at all.

We have a zero tolerance policy for cheating/exploiting/using unapproved third party tools (such as Cheat Engine), so you should also know that even a single instance can lead to a 72-hour suspension, or even a permanent ban, depending on the offense. And in the specific case of Cheat Engine, even the first offense will result in a permanent ban.

There are certain things we’re working on fixing on our end to make this behavior no longer possible, but that does not mean it’s okay to exploit these issues in the meantime.

To summarize, if you are using abilities such as gap closers to do things that are not within the realm of intended design and/or bypassing core game mechanics, such as entering keeps without downing doors and/or walls and getting under the environment (ground, water, etc.), you are exploiting. In short: don’t do it. If we catch you exploiting and/or cheating, even once, it is grounds for disciplinary action up to and including a permanent ban of your game account. If in doubt about whether or not certain actions or activity are considered exploiting, you are welcome to ask us here on the forums.

Thank you all for your cooperation in helping us keep ESO free of cheating and exploiting, and a fun, fair environment for all.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Unless you're a streamer or have a YouTube channel, right?

Ghost-Shot

I don't believe you, re-ban all the people you un-banned and this post might be taken seriously.

Rohamad_Ali

Good grief . Is really so hard to just play with some integrity for the game ? So many people whining about technicality after technicality . It's a flipping GAME . Certainly there can't really be this many morally bankrupt personalities to squabble over every scribble , uncrossed T and undoted i in the playbook ?!

..there it goes .That damn twitch in my eye ...

out51d3r

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We would generally frown upon (and potentially take action as a result of) .... taking an advantage of an in-game mechanic that is not currently working as designed to in any way provide an advantage to your playing abilities.

Here's the problem with that: I don't necessarily know when a mechanic isn't working as designed(because I'm not the one designing the mechanics). From all accounts, ZOS was repeatedly made aware that gap closers were functioning in this fashion on the test server. ZOS chose to ignore those reports and put it into the live game this way. If you didn't treat it as a bug(by fixing it or not allowing it to go live or at least acknowledging it as a bug), how is the playerbase to know that you actually consider it a bug? It's reasonable to assume at that point that the new functionality is actually intended or at least tolerated.

I should feel safe using my 22m teleport to teleport 22m. I shouldn't have to ask myself if I will get retroactively punished for using a mechanic that you guys knowingly let into the game and have not openly declared as punishable.

Wtrenga

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno thank you for the clarifications.

Could you please arrange some pop-up message ingame for these kinds of communication? Maybe right after loging in? That way everyone would get the warnings and not only forum readers!

Thanks for your support
Wtrenga

Wollust

This is stupid on many levels, primarily because

1) leaping and ambushing into keeps has been in the game for what? Since launch or so? And never did you think about doing something against it. So people just assumed that it is part of the game and accepted it.

2) you were warned months ago about this issue of the overperforming gap closers. My buddy made a video, a thread and showed how multiple gap closers made you capable of jumping from wall to wall and scaling any height whatsoever. And what happened? Your mods went on and deleted a thread about a malfunction on the damn PTS instead of saying they are looking into it.

3) you decide after over a month to finally come out and say anything about it Instead of doing so the moment you knew (on the PTS!) that there was something wrong? This is stupid on many levels. People may have as well just assumed that it's okay if it went from PTS to live and no one said anything.

4) most people don't even read the forums. I wish you'd finally get a way of making stuff like this clear for everyone, even those who aren't regular forum visitors.

5) the discrepancy between how you deal with this particular issue and the cheat engine thing is just beyond ridiculous. But whatever.

Now that I read the statement I guess I have a reason for not jumping into keeps, even if it added more fun imo.
But the way you deal with this?
Pathetic at best.

Tavore1138

Good call on announcing this so there can be no doubts and it is kind of funny seeing people who have been using this to get all the way into undefended keeps and siege to 50% from inside to flip flags suddenly trying to claim they did all that by accident...

As for communications this has been widely discussed in all the guilds I am active in for weeks now so hard to claim only forum users know about this or that most players consider it cheating...

Laggus

Father_Of_Vape wrote: »

C'mon ZOS. Please

Perma ban someone who may not read the forums very often TO EVEN KNOW IT IS A OFFICIALLY LABELED EXPLOIT.

0 communicated with anyone who is not active on the forums, and you have the justification to PERMA ban someone?

I think this banning system, along with the auto ban system is messed up. How about trying out a say warning. 72 hour - 1 week ban, then a perma ban. Or should we just skip anyone communication with anyone found cheating and just go right to the BAM you gone now see ya

Its also all over Zone chat and no doubt discussed in TS, so believe me word has spread in game fast. Anyone that isn't aware at this stage has blinkers on if they don't know. Guild Masters should help by informing all their members too.

Tonnopesce

While i do appreciate the effort to STOP the exploiters/cheaters i'm a little concerned on how this nothing is permitted policy will be promoted among the players, i believe that 10/20% of the entire game population is currently active in forums (official, reddit or guild forums) so the remaining may be not aware of the issue @ZOS_JessicaFolsom how zos intend to make the players aware of this?

ToRelax

Exactly because it's unclear what is working as designed I'd like ZOS to clearly tell us when something is considered an exploit. The tooltips on skills, items etc. contain very little information about how they are actually supposed to work.

Altercator

Fix your game and stop blaming players.

darjobuno

Oh I was reading this and just thought of something our guild had done once and I wonder if it is cheating.

A small contingent of us hid inside the castle after it was claimed by a rival force. Waiting for that force to leave we started attacking the castle from the inside. Is that cheating or just good tactics?

TequilaFire

Just make the inside of keep an instant death zone to enemy players unless the wall is down.
Many problems solved.

Rylana

To the Devs: Fix game. Also give your threats teeth and stop unbanning people that call/email in and beg for their account back, especially streamers and youtubers with large fanbases.

To the players: Stop being indignant and stop cheating/exploiting in the first place. I havent resorted to any of this garbage, not even once, so why are you so entitled? All of the strawmans being thrown around (accidental, its zenimaxes fault, blahblahblah) are just more weak justifications for your own disgusting behavior. Man up or get out.

Cogo

Banning muppets who use programs or whatever to cheat or other dumb things in ESO = Great

Abusing known bugs because they can't play? = Don't give a **** and killing people who abuse bugs tastes gooood!

Armitas

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom You need to be more clear about gap closers. Can I gap close accross an impassable gap? Can I streak accross it. If I am inside a keep can I gap close from the bottom floor to the top floor with chains which is a logical conclusion of that skill? If I am defending a keep can I cap close from the inner to the outer?

I know you are inclined to keep things vague but all that does is make us think that ZOS is not taking this seriously. There needs to be clear rules not vague ones. Clear rules makes you sound serious, vague ones makes it sound like you are just throwing out nets randomly to see what turns up.

Also can you make a clear statement on macros? Its easy to distinguish between outfit macros and combat rotation macros in your description.

WillhelmBlack

Hello my name is Will, I'm 33 years old and from the north of England. I ambushed through a keep door unintentionally yesterday. I felt guilty so allowed myself to be killed.

yodased

Rylana wrote: »

To the Devs: Fix game. Also give your threats teeth and stop unbanning people that call/email in and beg for their account back, especially streamers and youtubers with large fanbases.

To the players: Stop being indignant and stop cheating/exploiting in the first place. I havent resorted to any of this garbage, not even once, so why are you so entitled? All of the strawmans being thrown around (accidental, its zenimaxes fault, blahblahblah) are just more weak justifications for your own disgusting behavior. Man up or get out.

Coming from one of your own and not a hyper vigilant, faith Militant, therapist care bear must sting a bit

Alishka_Gunter

I thought it was extremely clear.

If the door isn't down or the walls have been breached, gap closing to get into keeps is not intended and therefore not allowed. Plain and simple.

Why wouldn't you be able to gap close out of the keep or over a breach? Unless you are abusing a bug to get to an area that you cannot normally get to, which would be an exploit, then you shouldn't have to worry.

I'm not even sure why alot of this has come into question. It's called integrity folks. It seems there are a lot of self entitled people who believe they can do something because it is capable of doing. Just because the shoulder of the highway is capable of being driven on doesn't mean you are allowed to do it. Folks do it all the time and police pull you over and ticket you just the same.

Like Jessica said, if it feels wrong don't do it. Blaming others for your actions (zenimax didn't fix this! It's their fault I chose to break the agreement I acknowledged upon playing this game!) seriously folks, the argument is weak. Just like the guy who said "I talked to the guy who got banned abd he didn't know it was an exploit". That's utter bull because I know the very same person and in fact was his GM when Eso was released. When I saw him doing this, I told him it was an exploit and pointed him here. His response was "they left it in the game so I can do it. They won't ban me."

Armitas

Alishka_Gunter wrote: »

I thought it was extremely clear.

If the door isn't down or the walls have been breached, gap closing to get into keeps is not intended and therefore not allowed. Plain and simple.

Then it should be stated as such, not as it is now where it is intentionally vague and left open ended in case of unforeseen events. All that does is prey on people to overcompensate and gimp thier potential while others access their full potential while appearing to stand in the gray area but actually standing within ZOS's intentions.