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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Exploiters at it Again!
-
Ritzey01✭✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You do realize you are completely wrong, dont you? Try telling the cop you didnt see any speed limit signs and see if that helps any, in case your wondering.......it wont.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But this has been stated by moderators and devs both that it is a know bug. So if you do it you are exploiting a known bug. NO EXCUSES!
If a country does make a law banning , like you say, sunglasses, it will be posted somewhere. Even if its just the minuets of the session. It is up to the citizen to be aware of laws and to not break them. Most are common sense and easy to know.3 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You do realize you are completely wrong, dont you? Try telling the cop you didnt see any speed limit signs and see if that helps any, in case your wondering.......it wont.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But this has been stated by moderators and devs both that it is a know bug. So if you do it you are exploiting a known bug. NO EXCUSES!
If a country does make a law banning , like you say, sunglasses, it will be posted somewhere. Even if its just the minuets of the session. It is up to the citizen to be aware of laws and to not break them. Most are common sense and easy to know.
Hey look another person that lives in reality.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.3 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not trying to be rude, all own needs to do is go back and re-read ZOS's statements carefully. What you've become accustomed to, or what you consider to be "cool mechanics", may in fact not be intended, is a long standing bug, exploitable, and a reportable offense.Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.
Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or
enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.
AND this should be enough evidence:
Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.
But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.
Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.
Resource towers have balconies? Which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the tower balconies are open to? Is it not the outside air?
Seriously, if you can fire arrows, abilities, and siege from those balconies, then it should be 100% fair game to get to them using abilities, as long as the abilities are functioning as intended and not doing something like breaking the vertical axis checks. That, by the way, is why leaping from the outer wall to the inner is a completely valid mechanic. The ability functions the same inside a keep as it does anywhere else. Nobody is breaking the code or exploiting a bug to make it work different from how it normally does. I'm sure the only reason the devs backpedaled and are considering it an exploit now is due to people complaining about DK still being able to do a cool thing. But if someone can leap from the inner to the outer and not be called an exploiter, why are they not open to the same counterattack? It's madness. Both players are in a valid range for the ability, let them hit each other.
I'd say most gap closers were not intended to allow you to fly into the air and in fact have been ignoring vertical checks, either for awhile, or just recently, as is the case with crit rush.
Edited by Cuyler on June 8, 2016 4:33PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You do realize you are completely wrong, dont you? Try telling the cop you didnt see any speed limit signs and see if that helps any, in case your wondering.......it wont.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But this has been stated by moderators and devs both that it is a know bug. So if you do it you are exploiting a known bug. NO EXCUSES!
If a country does make a law banning , like you say, sunglasses, it will be posted somewhere. Even if its just the minuets of the session. It is up to the citizen to be aware of laws and to not break them. Most are common sense and easy to know.
If you are willing to actually fight these things you would be surprised at the results. Thing is people don't fight them or have the resources to fight them.
Many of the things you mentioned can be fought and won... if the speed limit isn't clearly shown or is obstructed or is any way plausible that you could have missed it... as long as you weren't driving 95 mph you have a good chance of winning. You just can't be in clear violation of anything reasonable.
If you are driving 45 and the speed limit changes to 30 without good signage that can be reasonably argued you couldn't have missed... you will get off if you fight it.
People that dragon leap into keeps can not be reasonably assumed to have read what ZOS says or assumed to know it's not allowed.1 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You do realize you are completely wrong, dont you? Try telling the cop you didnt see any speed limit signs and see if that helps any, in case your wondering.......it wont.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But this has been stated by moderators and devs both that it is a know bug. So if you do it you are exploiting a known bug. NO EXCUSES!
If a country does make a law banning , like you say, sunglasses, it will be posted somewhere. Even if its just the minuets of the session. It is up to the citizen to be aware of laws and to not break them. Most are common sense and easy to know.
Wow you people are thick.
Lets assume there's a new road and signs are not yet posted. This road is in an area where all surrounding roads are 65mph. Because there's no signs up yet, you drive at 65mph. Reasonable assumption I'd say. Cop pulls you over because the speed limit is 40mph on this particular road. So you were speeding, even though you were not given the resources to know you were speeding, you still get the ticket.
YAAP SOUNDS REASONABLE
BTW A shining example of common sense would be assuming you can use the ability "Dragon Leap" to leap up onto things such as walls and towers.
Edited by _Chaos on June 8, 2016 4:35PM'Chaos0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭.
I'm not trying to be rude, all own needs to do is go back and re-read ZOS's statements carefully. What you've become accustomed to, or what you consider to be "cool mechanics", may in fact not be intended, is a long standing bug, exploitable, and a reportable offense.Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.
Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.
AND this should be enough evidence:
Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.
But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.
Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.
Resource towers have balconies? Which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the tower balconies are open to? Is it not the outside air?
Seriously, if you can fire arrows, abilities, and siege from those balconies, then it should be 100% fair game to get to them using abilities, as long as the abilities are functioning as intended and not doing something like breaking the vertical axis checks. That, by the way, is why leaping from the outer wall to the inner is a completely valid mechanic. The ability functions the same inside a keep as it does anywhere else. Nobody is breaking the code or exploiting a bug to make it work different from how it normally does. I'm sure the only reason the devs backpedaled and are considering it an exploit now is due to people complaining about DK still being able to do a cool thing. But if someone can leap from the inner to the outer and not be called an exploiter, why are they not open to the same counterattack? It's madness. Both players are in a valid range for the ability, let them hit each other.
I'd say most gap closers were not intended to allow you to fly into the air and in fact have been ignoring vertical checks, either for awhile, or just recently, as is the case with crit rush.
To be fair it is also confirmed that they will do nothing about it. So this thread will go no where.
Edits cause quoting is to hard for me it seems.Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on June 8, 2016 4:39PM0 -
jcasini222ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
2 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's the thing......report them! When they use the excuse "I didn't know" the first time, great, bad guy 1, good guys 0.
NEXT TIME, dude can't use that same excuse again? amirite? He HAD been made aware. What's he say now?
The legitimate ppl, will stop after being made aware.
The *** however will either stop exploiting, or gets what's coming to him when they continue well-knowing @_ChaosEdited by Cuyler on June 8, 2016 4:40PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You do realize you are completely wrong, dont you? Try telling the cop you didnt see any speed limit signs and see if that helps any, in case your wondering.......it wont.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But this has been stated by moderators and devs both that it is a know bug. So if you do it you are exploiting a known bug. NO EXCUSES!
If a country does make a law banning , like you say, sunglasses, it will be posted somewhere. Even if its just the minuets of the session. It is up to the citizen to be aware of laws and to not break them. Most are common sense and easy to know.
Wow you people are thick.
Lets assume there's a new road and signs are not yet posted. This road is in an area where all surrounding roads are 65mph. Because there's no signs up yet, you drive at 65mph. Reasonable assumption I'd say. Cop pulls you over because the speed limit is 40mph on this particular road. So you were speeding, even though you were not given the resources to know you were speeding, you still get the ticket.
YAAP SOUNDS REASONABLE
BTW A shining example of common sense would be assuming you can use the ability "Dragon Leap" to leap up onto things such as walls and towers.
Cops still giving you the ticket though.
You CAN fight it... but that's ofttimes too much trouble for the value.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Lets assume there's a new road and signs are not yet posted. This road is in an area where all surrounding roads are 65mph. Because there's no signs up yet, you drive at 65mph. Reasonable assumption I'd say. Cop pulls you over because the speed limit is 40mph on this particular road. So you were speeding, even though you were not given the resources to know you were speeding, you still get the ticket.
Ok in this super specific case then you more than likely would be getting a ticket you could get out of and you would be getting that ticket unfairly because of the situation.
You would then go to court and appeal the ticket, which you would get out of, sure.
The point you are making though, is that you could theoretically go back to that same exact situation and do the same exact thing and expect it to be ok, because there is no sign.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
Yep.
Here is the thing related to this game and a TOS.
You can't generally agree to things that haven't occurred yet.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
Again, fine in this particular instance you were technically correct because the signage was unfairly blocked and you could not know there was a dip in the speed limit. That is nowhere near the same thing as driving 130 mph in that 65mph zone because you didn't see a 65mph speed limit.
It's a asinine conversation that only shows that people want to get any advantage possible, fair or unfair, and then will justify those actions to themselves as 'correct'Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not trying to be rude, all own needs to do is go back and re-read ZOS's statements carefully. What you've become accustomed to, or what you consider to be "cool mechanics", may in fact not be intended, is a long standing bug, exploitable, and a reportable offense.Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.
Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.
AND this should be enough evidence:
Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.
But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.
Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.
Resource towers have balconies? Which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the tower balconies are open to? Is it not the outside air?
Seriously, if you can fire arrows, abilities, and siege from those balconies, then it should be 100% fair game to get to them using abilities, as long as the abilities are functioning as intended and not doing something like breaking the vertical axis checks. That, by the way, is why leaping from the outer wall to the inner is a completely valid mechanic. The ability functions the same inside a keep as it does anywhere else. Nobody is breaking the code or exploiting a bug to make it work different from how it normally does. I'm sure the only reason the devs backpedaled and are considering it an exploit now is due to people complaining about DK still being able to do a cool thing. But if someone can leap from the inner to the outer and not be called an exploiter, why are they not open to the same counterattack? It's madness. Both players are in a valid range for the ability, let them hit each other.
I'd say most gap closers were not intended to allow you to fly into the air and in fact have been ignoring vertical checks, either for awhile, or just recently, as is the case with crit rush.
Except when the game came out they made no statements about leaping into keeps, and them having any input on the matter is a recent phenomenon. I'm more inclined to believe that the devs who designed the abilities and the keeps knew full well that you would be able to get to the inner from the outer. It would be an enormous oversight not to see that. They clearly intended those oil ledges by the doors to be a place for pre-breach combat or the walls wouldn't have caps to fire abilities through. I maintain that it's only considered "unintended" now because a few people were too loud complaining about a completely fair mechanic.
Gap-closers like crit rush are likewise working as intended. They never had a vertical check before because most of them used to trace a path along the ground to the target. Thus, if you had a vertical limit, you wouldn't be able to do something totally normal like charge up a hill. In the recent patch, ZOS changed them to work like a teleport instead, which is why people are flying around all over the place. They did, of course, know that this would lead to people being able to get into resource towers and the like, but went through with the change anyway. If anything, you should be petitioning to change the designation so that this is not considered an exploit, as the abilities are working exactly as described and exactly as intended.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster2 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You make an interesting point. Do you make sure someone puts up a sign in front of your toilet that says the tank is not a backstop for your urine? Or perhaps you would argue that because there is no sign, you should just drop the used toilet paper on then ground.
Regardless of a new law or not if you are ignorant to it you will still face the penalty.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB2 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Permaban players for something ZOS intentionally put in the game?! Get [snip]ed bud.
& don't you dare try to argue it wasn't intentional, we reported it on PTS and the forums, showing videos clear as day. All they had to do was revert the changes, if anything permaban the ones that let this go live.
so by your logic because ZOS chose to intentionally write certain integer values to client side RAM, players who fiddled with those values should not be permabanned also.... because ZOS made the mistake of not keeping it controlled?
people knew it was exploitable. they exploited it to gain an advantage.
yaw'll knew this was exploitable from the PTS.. and you still exploit it in live.
no respect or sympathy. stop making excuses.
There is a huge difference between using a tool outside of the game to meddle with the game's interactions with the servers and exploiting a set of in game mechanics the Developers were well aware of when they released the Update. This are in game mechanics, like or not, until Zenimax fixes their mistakes, it is their greed that leads the company to replease content that while tested, was not properly fixed. ESO has suffered with this from the very start, considering ZOS released ESO with Nightblades being barely functional and so many quest bugs In Game admins had to constantly go around manually resetting instances and NPCs.0 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You make an interesting point. Do you make sure someone puts up a sign in front of your toilet that says the tank is not a backstop for your urine? Or perhaps you would argue that because there is no sign, you should just drop the used toilet paper on then ground.
Regardless of a new law or not if you are ignorant to it you will still face the penalty.
Do you ban people for using a leap ability to leap onto things?'Chaos0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
Again, fine in this particular instance you were technically correct because the signage was unfairly blocked and you could not know there was a dip in the speed limit. That is nowhere near the same thing as driving 130 mph in that 65mph zone because you didn't see a 65mph speed limit.
It's a asinine conversation that only shows that people want to get any advantage possible, fair or unfair, and then will justify those actions to themselves as 'correct'
They dont actually have to justify themselves. No one is getting punished for jumping into buildings. All they are doing is trolling you on the forums about it, and still doing it.
In your 130mph example, say no one pulled them over. No one did anything. Would the person driving 130mph have to justify it? Not at all.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you ban people for using a leap ability to leap onto things?
Ok remove leap from the equation as that is completely a different conversation and you seem to be focusing on that one thing.
Do you feel that being able to use a horizontal based, ground transportation skill to be able to travel 20-30 feet vertically or through physical barriers like walls and doors, is exploitative of the physics of the game itself?
If you don't believe that it is, why not?
If you do believe it is, why should you not be banned for using this broken mechanic before it gets fixed?
That I think will clear up a lot of issues here.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@yodased
Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?
Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.
What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.
If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.
You make an interesting point. Do you make sure someone puts up a sign in front of your toilet that says the tank is not a backstop for your urine? Or perhaps you would argue that because there is no sign, you should just drop the used toilet paper on then ground.
Regardless of a new law or not if you are ignorant to it you will still face the penalty.
Do you ban people for using a leap ability to leap onto things?
I think they're coming from a perspective where using leap to move around a keep is considered "obviously" unintended, to the point where any reasonable person would agree that you shouldn't use it that way. This is clearly not, however, as obvious as they wish it to be, given how many people vocally disagree. The population is quite divided on what a "reasonably prudent" person would do in this situation.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
Again, fine in this particular instance you were technically correct because the signage was unfairly blocked and you could not know there was a dip in the speed limit. That is nowhere near the same thing as driving 130 mph in that 65mph zone because you didn't see a 65mph speed limit.
It's a asinine conversation that only shows that people want to get any advantage possible, fair or unfair, and then will justify those actions to themselves as 'correct'
Well one of the biggest arguments you will see in law is what does reasonable mean?
Obviously doing 135 mph is unreasonable no matter the signage.
Jumping into a keep with dragon leap isn't 135 mph unreasonable...
CE and whatnot is your proverbial 135 mph, many other things are more like the missed sign.Edited by rfennell_ESO on June 8, 2016 4:52PM1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »Lol just going to throw this out there. But I got out of a speeding ticket, obviously appeared in court it was the judge discretion, because the sign listing 55 was obstructed from view.
There was tree branches in front of it which I didnt know at the time. I told the officer that I didn't see a sign posted (this was a speed trap 65 to 55 then back to 65 in a short distance) the officer wasnt hearing that. So before this court date I looked up where the sign would be posted, took a picture of the sign with branches in front of it, went to court with it and viola the speeding ticket was overturned. The officer didn't seem to pleased, the judge even less so but I'm guessing for different reasons.
Again, fine in this particular instance you were technically correct because the signage was unfairly blocked and you could not know there was a dip in the speed limit. That is nowhere near the same thing as driving 130 mph in that 65mph zone because you didn't see a 65mph speed limit.
It's a asinine conversation that only shows that people want to get any advantage possible, fair or unfair, and then will justify those actions to themselves as 'correct'
Well one of the biggest argument you will in law is what does reasonable mean?
Obviously doing 135 mph is unreasonable no matter the signage.
Jumping into a keep with dragon leap isn't 135 mph unreasonable...
CE and whatnot is your proverbial 135 mph, many other things are more like the missed sign.
And I am NOT arguing that
If you read what I'm saying, its never been about leap, its always been about breaking the physical world barriers.
Leap is a different discussion all together because there already is a z-axis involved.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
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You totally lost me. You're letting your opinion of the mechanic get in the way of what's been stated to be intended or not. I'm not here to speculate. Is it intended, is it not? that's really all I care about.
I'm not trying to be rude, all own needs to do is go back and re-read ZOS's statements carefully. What you've become accustomed to, or what you consider to be "cool mechanics", may in fact not be intended, is a long standing bug, exploitable, and a reportable offense.Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.
Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.
AND this should be enough evidence:
Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.
But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.
Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.
Resource towers have balconies? Which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the tower balconies are open to? Is it not the outside air?
Seriously, if you can fire arrows, abilities, and siege from those balconies, then it should be 100% fair game to get to them using abilities, as long as the abilities are functioning as intended and not doing something like breaking the vertical axis checks. That, by the way, is why leaping from the outer wall to the inner is a completely valid mechanic. The ability functions the same inside a keep as it does anywhere else. Nobody is breaking the code or exploiting a bug to make it work different from how it normally does. I'm sure the only reason the devs backpedaled and are considering it an exploit now is due to people complaining about DK still being able to do a cool thing. But if someone can leap from the inner to the outer and not be called an exploiter, why are they not open to the same counterattack? It's madness. Both players are in a valid range for the ability, let them hit each other.
I'd say most gap closers were not intended to allow you to fly into the air and in fact have been ignoring vertical checks, either for awhile, or just recently, as is the case with crit rush.
Except when the game came out they made no statements about leaping into keeps, and them having any input on the matter is a recent phenomenon. I'm more inclined to believe that the devs who designed the abilities and the keeps knew full well that you would be able to get to the inner from the outer. It would be an enormous oversight not to see that. They clearly intended those oil ledges by the doors to be a place for pre-breach combat or the walls wouldn't have caps to fire abilities through. I maintain that it's only considered "unintended" now because a few people were too loud complaining about a completely fair mechanic.
Gap-closers like crit rush are likewise working as intended. They never had a vertical check before because most of them used to trace a path along the ground to the target. Thus, if you had a vertical limit, you wouldn't be able to do something totally normal like charge up a hill. In the recent patch, ZOS changed them to work like a teleport instead, which is why people are flying around all over the place. They did, of course, know that this would lead to people being able to get into resource towers and the like, but went through with the change anyway. If anything, you should be petitioning to change the designation so that this is not considered an exploit, as the abilities are working exactly as described and exactly as intended.
We've got official confirmation that it's NOT intended for KEEPS. Your opinion on the matter is great, and maybe I agree, but that belongs in the suggestions and feedback thread, not in a discussion about what is intended or not.
Now what hasn't been confirmed explicitly is if this extends to Resource towers as well. However, it was implied, from statements by ZOS here, that it is considered a bug. I'm not making this *** up here.
Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait really tho, question: Do you guys report people who get into towers for exploiting?
Didn't even occur to me that people might get reported for this.
0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Outsider wrote: »Wait really tho, question: Do you guys report people who get into towers for exploiting?
Didn't even occur to me that people might get reported for this.
For me that sounds pretty silly. 'Oh, I am going to report you because you used your ability as the game allows you too without using any special code or cheat...'
Zenimax is aware this is happening, they were made aware of it in the PTS, they didn't cared and released the game with the bug... Why should players avoid using this if the Devs them selves couldn't care less?1 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
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You're serious? like really? can we get off the "Zeni put it there so I ccan use it". It's ridiculous. And quite frankly ruinous to the game. My suggestion, don't make yourself a part of the problem, be a part of a solution.The_Outsider wrote: »Wait really tho, question: Do you guys report people who get into towers for exploiting?
Didn't even occur to me that people might get reported for this.
For me that sounds pretty silly. 'Oh, I am going to report you because you used your ability as the game allows you too without using any special code or cheat...'
Zenimax is aware this is happening, they were made aware of it in the PTS, they didn't cared and released the game with the bug... Why should players avoid using this if the Devs them selves couldn't care less?
Infinite trap damage and infinite backlash damage were/are there too, should we all just accept it as intended as go craxy with the stuff? gtfoh
Edited by Cuyler on June 8, 2016 5:04PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]1 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭This thread is why we have to put warnings and cautions about absolutely stupid things, like not using a hair dryer while taking a shower.
In most cases, it's pretty damn obvious when something in the game isn't behaving like it should. Knowingly abusing such circumstances is just like saying "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to shower while using a hair dryer!". Well, yeah you did. You're just feigning ignorance to get out of trouble (or get a huge payday).
Go ahead and exploit away. Maybe you'll get caught, and maybe you won't. But don't come searching for sympathy if you get banned or permabanned.Edited by Xylphan on June 8, 2016 5:04PM5 -
Orlacc✭✭✭Reporting @Cuyler for being mean and making personal attacks.
Many people as well as myself have been leaping into keeps since the beginning of the game, nothings changed, and never will. See you on the inside of your keep tonight sweet cheeks!
P.S
Is it really exploiting if ZOS intentionally put it in the game after knowing full well that it worked this way?
j/k your opinion doesn't matter, it was a rhetorical question.
Let's just put this to bed then. ZOS, is this "working as intended?" If so we will have to live with it. If not, please fix it. Seems simple.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
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You're serious? like really? can we get off the "Zeni put it there so I ccan use it". It's ridiculous.The_Outsider wrote: »Wait really tho, question: Do you guys report people who get into towers for exploiting?
Didn't even occur to me that people might get reported for this.
For me that sounds pretty silly. 'Oh, I am going to report you because you used your ability as the game allows you too without using any special code or cheat...'
Zenimax is aware this is happening, they were made aware of it in the PTS, they didn't cared and released the game with the bug... Why should players avoid using this if the Devs them selves couldn't care less?
Infinite trap damage and infinite backlash damage are there too, should we all just accept it as intended as go craxy with the stuff? gtfoh
If it is possible to do those things without using hacks, if it is a in game mechanics Zenimax is aware of and failing to fix, then yes... You should be allowed to use it. People may be pissed at you for doing it, but it is not a ban worth offense. This is the developers fault, they were made aware of this problem just they were made aware of many problems before and they still chose to release the game with the bugs.
Don't get me wrong, I don't use exploits, actually I hardly ever PvP, it is too laggy, and no, I don't think using this 'bugs' is nice, I just don't think those using them should be banned. You should be complaining about the Devs, not the players using the game mechanics to win.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »Wait really tho, question: Do you guys report people who get into towers for exploiting?
Didn't even occur to me that people might get reported for this.
For me that sounds pretty silly. 'Oh, I am going to report you because you used your ability as the game allows you too without using any special code or cheat...'
Zenimax is aware this is happening, they were made aware of it in the PTS, they didn't cared and released the game with the bug... Why should players avoid using this if the Devs them selves couldn't care less?
There it is, this is exactly the line of reasoning that I was looking for.
The issue is when they are reported and Zenimax sends them a message to not *** do that, I know that they do that because I GOT one of those messages way back when leap worked from the ground to the castle.
I was leaping like a maniac with panda back in the day, I had no idea it wasn't supposed to work that way. Well someone must have reported me, then I was informed that its a no no so i stopped doing it.
So you are on the forums, you know it's against the rules, but you are going to do it anyways because *** ZOS and their incompetence?
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do you ban people for using a leap ability to leap onto things?
Ok remove leap from the equation as that is completely a different conversation and you seem to be focusing on that one thing.
Do you feel that being able to use a horizontal based, ground transportation skill to be able to travel 20-30 feet vertically or through physical barriers like walls and doors, is exploitative of the physics of the game itself?
If you don't believe that it is, why not?
If you do believe it is, why should you not be banned for using this broken mechanic before it gets fixed?
That I think will clear up a lot of issues here.
ZOS put it in the game themselves, why would it NOT be allowed?
We warned them about this. Many times, and for up to a month before releasing it to the live version.
They still released it. If it got pushed into the live version, it surely must've been within their own rule-set right?
I mean, why wouldn't they just revert the changes if it was going to be an "exploit"?
Are you going to now tell me that it would have been too hard to copy/paste the old code while they work on ironing out the issues in the new version?'Chaos0