Exploiters at it Again!

Rohamad_Ali

Just give me the whiskey , this place driving me nutz

Cuyler

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

rfennell_ESO

_Chaos wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

Reporting @Cuyler for being mean and making personal attacks.


Many people as well as myself have been leaping into keeps since the beginning of the game, nothings changed, and never will. See you on the inside of your keep tonight sweet cheeks!

P.S
Is it really exploiting if ZOS intentionally put it in the game after knowing full well that it worked this way?
j/k your opinion doesn't matter, it was a rhetorical question.

That's fine Chaos, I don't mind losing my forum acct if it means another exploiter is brought out from the toxic underbelly of the game. I don't need to continue either and you've sufficiently made everyone aware of your intentions here.

P.S. grow up

@Cuyler

If I host an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and provide a 60oz of Whiskey for all my members to drink, is it the fault of the AA members for drinking it? Or mine for bringing that whiskey?

It's really a bit of both are to blame.

In our current crisis in game... ZOS is certainly to blame, but so are the players doing these things.

ZOS_CoriJ

Regardless of what the discussion is in theme we expect that the forum rules are followed when posting.
This is particularly the case with specific users using an exploit as publicly singling these players out on the forums this way is a concern for unnecessary shaming and harassment. This should be reported to be addressed.

Reporting to the forums is informative in a situation where we are not aware of a bug or issue already. Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue. Developers have generally addressed exploit discussion on duplicate threads. You can find a response here and here. If you wish to further assist in the matter, the best way to provide information would be to report exploits in or to send the video to support.

SwaminoNowlino

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

Molag_Crow

Cuyler wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Why should players get permabanned for in-game faulty mechanics? they can get up a wall by using class abilities and not 3rd party programs, so.. they don't deserve any punishment.

Of course this should be addressed and fixed ASAP, but you know...

It's not up to us to decide, temp-ban, perma-ban, slap on the wrist, castration, etc. that's ZOS's job. It's up to us to report it. There's a difference between having used a faulty mechanic by accident and continually exploiting a faulty mechanic.

Common sense really, still amazes me though there's enough weak minded people around here to believe exploiters *** excuses why they should be able to exploit broken mechanics without consequence. It's a mindset, an ideology much like:

_Chaos wrote: »

I can't wait to get in-game and leap into keeps/towers onto plebs like the ones posting in this thread. And no, I will not get banned for doing so, suck on that

Once this mindset is allowed to run rampant in the game, it will ruin it for everyone, and ZOS has basically failed to provide a good gaming experience for everyone. Guy's like this are a virus. not only to the game, but society in general.

Well, I don't know if you're directing that at me, but...

1. I know that ZOS make the decisions when it comes to punishment/rule-breaking in their game.
2. I didn't suggest that the exploiters did it by accident, but to be honest, the whole "dragon leap up to the target on the wall" has been a thing since day 1(?) on console, anyway -- so we were used to it and accepted it as intentional, since it was left alone until ZOS actually stated that it's not intentional.
3. Of course players will take advantage of exploits and players who do, should get punished, BUT it depends on the level of the exploit. Simply leaping up onto a keep wall isn't exactly up there on list (especially after that whole cheat engine situation,) so it's not as serious as exploiting surveys for tons of materials and then gold, like someone I know, who now has over 13million gold already.
   
   So what I'm trying to say is that the problem with the wall exploit, and now it's gotten worse since Nightblades can do it easier(?) is because more and more players are doing it now and it's highlighting the issue once again, just like those guys who knew about the cheat engine then supposedly highlighted it, by clearly exploiting to cause an uproar, etc.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

Do you think in the tos it says they have the right to discontinue service when they want for whatever reason?

SwaminoNowlino

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Regardless of what the discussion is in theme we expect that the forum rules are followed when posting.
This is particularly the case with specific users using an exploit as publicly singling these players out on the forums this way is a concern for unnecessary shaming and harassment. This should be reported to be addressed.

Reporting to the forums is informative in a situation where we are not aware of a bug or issue already. Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue. Developers have generally addressed exploit discussion on duplicate threads. You can find a response here and here. If you wish to further assist in the matter, the best way to provide information would be to report exploits in or to send the video to support.

@ZOS_CoriJ Given what you stated, I have a question. If OP would have posted the video talking about some awesome footage he captured of cool combat that he really wanted to share because it was really cool, would it have been deleted? I mean I know the answer to this is no it would not have, I'm just asking for future reference should someone just post these things with reverse psychology?

_Chaos

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

@Cuyler
Is that on a tool-tip in game? In the tutorial? ANYWHERE BUT THE FORUMS?!
As @SwaminoNowlino so politely put it (thanks, I don't have the patience anymore) players have no way to know that what they are doing is breaking the rules. ZOS has left the dragon leap mechanic in place for over TWO YEARS. It's reasonable to assume that you can use a leaping ability to leap onto things.

They knew about the gap closer mechanics before pushing it to the live servers, but lo and behold, they did it anyways, which not only gives people the idea that its working as intended, but they haven't put anything in place to warn players that it isn't allowed and a bannable offense.

Perma what you say?
Perma-doomed ESO if it continues to be managed so inefficiently.

I challenge you to refute the above points and not just copy and paste some obscure dev post that's buried deep within the hundreds of thousands of forum bickering.

A forum post in a thread on a website with thousands of other threads is not the same as providing players in-game with knowledge that what they're doing is an "exploit"


@ZOS_MattFiror Shame on you for forcing your community into laying this out in such a manner. It's destructive, and the root of all evil that bars this community from ever having intelligent conversations.

Zheg

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Regardless of what the discussion is in theme we expect that the forum rules are followed when posting.
This is particularly the case with specific users using an exploit as publicly singling these players out on the forums this way is a concern for unnecessary shaming and harassment. This should be reported to be addressed.

Reporting to the forums is informative in a situation where we are not aware of a bug or issue already. Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue. Developers have generally addressed exploit discussion on duplicate threads. You can find a response here and here. If you wish to further assist in the matter, the best way to provide information would be to report exploits in or to send the video to support.

While a separate issue from the OP entirely, the fact that you guys consider that "addressing exploits" is a travesty.

Molag_Crow

@SwaminoNowlino That's a trick question, but I believe that it wouldn't receive the same action if it was presented in that way, like "Check this out! how awesome!" etc

hamgatan

Gallifreyy wrote: »

it disturbs me to think that so many of you down know what cheating is. @_Chaos thank you for being reasonable human being

...says the star of the video.

SwaminoNowlino

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

Do you think in the tos it says they have the right to discontinue service when they want for whatever reason?

Yeah, most TOS have that clause that the product is still the property of the company and is considered on lease to the user, and that this lease can be revoked at any time the company wishes with no ramifications.

Not sure what this has to do with this discussion, ZOS can definitely ban someone for doing this if they want, I'm not arguing that. I'm just asking people to use a little critical thinking before rushing to the forums to label folks as cheaters.

Using CE to fly and drop meteors is blatantly against the TOS, but using Take Flight onto a wall is not, as its not stated anywhere except within specific forum threads that I am not required as a user to read. So there are really two solutions, ZOS can be transparent about the bug and stick it in the launcher or send it to every character as mail, or they can fix it. Then anyone doing it after that you would be within your rights to label as a cheater.

Cuyler

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

What are you getting on about? go to the natch potes thread, the orginal message is there in black and white. I didn't edit ***. I'm editing my statements because what I want to say to you sympathizers the first time around would get me forum banned immediately. So I need to edit MY statements, after a few more sips of coffee.

And I'm not sure you actually know what critical thinking is at this point. You're describing a loop-hole that con-artist's use to get out of being labeled an exploiter as being reason to not fight the good fight here? first of all GG, second you're not thinking critically.

I realize that there are a few legitimate excuses, thanks Cpt. obvious. But clearly, as this thread shows there are those who will use these excuses to simply CON.

EDIT: here I'll even link it to you, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

Molag_Crow

We've been seeing Dragon Knights leaping into our keeps for over a year now and we've just treated it as the norm, since we'd usually just kill the DK after he leaps up anyway, or push him down, etc.

Honestly, I thought it was intentional (For DK's leap only, though) until ZOS stated it wasn't. I play a Templar so I'm not exactly sticking up for the DKs and NBs who can do this.

SwaminoNowlino

Molag_Crow wrote: »

@SwaminoNowlino That's a trick question, but I believe that it wouldn't receive the same action if it was presented in that way, like "Check this out! how awesome!" etc

Yeah that's kind of my point. FENGRUSH posted a video the other day of him getting catapulted by the templar ulti heal, it was funny and remains up. If someone posted that same video and had "cheat" in the title or the post, it would be removed immediately.

DHale

Good luck with that not an exploit at all.

Ritzey01

DHale wrote: »

Good luck with that not an exploit at all.

It has already been stated that it IS an exploit of a known bug. Theres no getting around it.

yodased

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

Lack of knowledge you are breaking a rule is not elimination of responsibility, sir.

Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable. Driving a car with a passenger who has drugs? You are on the hook friend, you should know who and what is in your car, you have control.

You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.

LoL you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.

Also, for someone to think that a judge would look at this situation and reasonably decide that a person playing a MMORPG does not realize there are official means of contact and forums for the game is laughable.

That being said, horizontally leaping into a keep from a DK is one of the coolest parts of this game, why take it out?

SwaminoNowlino

Cuyler wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

What are you getting on about? go to the natch potes thread, the orginal message is there in black and white. I didn't edit ***. I'm editing my statements because what I want to say to you sympathizers the first time around would get me forum banned immediately. So I need to edit MY statements, after a few more sips of coffee.

And I'm not sure you actually know what critical thinking is at this point. You're describing a loop-hole that con-artist's use to get out of being labeled an exploiter as being reason to not fight the good fight here? first of all GG, second you're not thinking critically.

I realize that there are a few legitimate excuses, thanks Cpt. obvious. But clearly, as this thread shows there are those who will use these excuses to simply CON.

EDIT: here I'll even link it to you, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

I'm not entirely sure you understand the definition of critical thinking... I'll just leave this here for you, "Critical Thinking - the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

See the word objective? This is something I am able to be regarding this, as I am performing an objective analysis to point out why 90+% of the players are probably unaware that this is an exploit. You have already decided that anyone doing this is fully aware of it and is 100% unequivocally a cheater and must be punished. i.e. not objective.

Molag_Crow

Rules are rules, but in my opinion, I totally agree that the players should be named & shamed for using real exploits, but leaping up onto keep walls?... come on.

That's been in the game since the start (primary DKs though.) ZOS are still working on a fix for this so instead of getting all angry on the forums like "this player is cheating!!!!" why don't you just try to counter the players who're leaping up onto the walls for the time being? or are they too powerful for you? just saying.

Cuyler

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

Why should players get permabanned for in-game faulty mechanics? they can get up a wall by using class abilities and not 3rd party programs, so.. they don't deserve any punishment.

Of course this should be addressed and fixed ASAP, but you know...

It's not up to us to decide, temp-ban, perma-ban, slap on the wrist, castration, etc. that's ZOS's job. It's up to us to report it. There's a difference between having used a faulty mechanic by accident and continually exploiting a faulty mechanic.

Common sense really, still amazes me though there's enough weak minded people around here to believe exploiters *** excuses why they should be able to exploit broken mechanics without consequence. It's a mindset, an ideology much like:

_Chaos wrote: »

I can't wait to get in-game and leap into keeps/towers onto plebs like the ones posting in this thread. And no, I will not get banned for doing so, suck on that

Once this mindset is allowed to run rampant in the game, it will ruin it for everyone, and ZOS has basically failed to provide a good gaming experience for everyone. Guy's like this are a virus. not only to the game, but society in general.

Well, I don't know if you're directing that at me, but...

1. I know that ZOS make the decisions when it comes to punishment/rule-breaking in their game.
2. I didn't suggest that the exploiters did it by accident, but to be honest, the whole "dragon leap up to the target on the wall" has been a thing since day 1(?) on console, anyway -- so we were used to it and accepted it as intentional, since it was left alone until ZOS actually stated that it's not intentional.
3. Of course players will take advantage of exploits and players who do, should get punished, BUT it depends on the level of the exploit. Simply leaping up onto a keep wall isn't exactly up there on list (especially after that whole cheat engine situation,) so it's not as serious as exploiting surveys for tons of materials and then gold, like someone I know, who now has over 13million gold already.
   
   So what I'm trying to say is that the problem with the wall exploit, and now it's gotten worse since Nightblades can do it easier(?) is because more and more players are doing it now and it's highlighting the issue once again, just like those guys who knew about the cheat engine then supposedly highlighted it, by clearly exploiting to cause an uproar, etc.

Not directed at you, just addressing the topics you brought up.

hamgatan

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Are the players OP referring to aware that they are "exploiting" a broken mechanic? Maybe, heck I'd even lean towards probably. But does OP know that for certain? Even if they do actually know it, they have a darn good argument if ZOS tries to punish them that they have absolutely zero way of knowing its not.

Well put it this way.. before I fired up the screen recorder.. (this was the reason I started it up).. I was off to the side of the balcony level of the tower. They (DC) were lined up single file on the same rock.. taking turns one by one to dragon leap and crit rush up onto the tower. 6 or 7 of them in a row. When they dropped down they repeated this same action.

Coordinated accident perhaps?

SwaminoNowlino

yodased wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

Lack of knowledge you are breaking a rule is not elimination of responsibility, sir.

Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable. Driving a car with a passenger who has drugs? You are on the hook friend, you should know who and what is in your car, you have control.

You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.

LoL you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.

Also, for someone to think that a judge would look at this situation and reasonably decide that a person playing a MMORPG does not realize there are official means of contact and forums for the game is laughable.

That being said, horizontally leaping into a keep from a DK is one of the coolest parts of this game, why take it out?

Where your logical argument breaks down is that if the road is not clearly marked with a speed limit, you can claim and easily win against that ticket. A lot of states have provisions that read similar to the following "The speed limit on unmarked roadways should be considered 55mph." So if I, the state, wanted people to drive 30 on that road, I'd better put up signs stating that, otherwise I lose that argument if the guy was driving 55. ZOS has failed to put up those signs.

Molag_Crow

It started out as accidental because, think about it, if you had an ultimate which caused you to leap up into the air at your target, you'd surely try to use it at your target who is up on top of a platform/wall, and obviously that has been successful in a lot of cases, so the word has spread, more and more DK's would then purposely do it, just because they know they can.

DocFrost72

I think ZOS can fix the issue of keep hopping, actually. Wouldn't require much effort.

In WGT, during the first boss you can be placed in a cage. You cannot walk out of the cage, you must break the lock. It is a solid wall to your person...

But you can shoor ranged spells out of it, and the mobs can walk in.

So, a semi permeable barrier could help keep players from entering, if wound along the tops of keep walls. This would not stop ranged spells from either side, or the epic jump down into the fray ability either.

Recremen

Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.

yodased

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

Lack of knowledge you are breaking a rule is not elimination of responsibility, sir.

Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable. Driving a car with a passenger who has drugs? You are on the hook friend, you should know who and what is in your car, you have control.

You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.

LoL you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.

Also, for someone to think that a judge would look at this situation and reasonably decide that a person playing a MMORPG does not realize there are official means of contact and forums for the game is laughable.

That being said, horizontally leaping into a keep from a DK is one of the coolest parts of this game, why take it out?

Where your logical argument breaks down is that if the road is not clearly marked with a speed limit, you can claim and easily win against that ticket. A lot of states have provisions that read similar to the following "The speed limit on unmarked roadways should be considered 55mph." So if I, the state, wanted people to drive 30 on that road, I'd better put up signs stating that, otherwise I lose that argument if the guy was driving 55. ZOS has failed to put up those signs.

We will have to agree to disagree, but I would think you could make a lot of money as a trial litigator with that line of thinking.

So you are presenting this as: Because you didn't tell me I shouldn't circumvent obvious rules, I should not be punished for doing so.

So switch it around then, what happens when you drive on the other side of the road then? There are no clear marked signs to drive on the left or the right, and when I took my license test I agreed to it, but you didn't explicitly tell me that this road I should drive on the right, so I am going to drive on the left.

When I run into oncoming traffic and kill 45 people, please don't tell me I was wrong, because you didn't explicitly mark on this road I shouldn't drive here its your fault.

LOL ok.

SwaminoNowlino

hamgatan wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Are the players OP referring to aware that they are "exploiting" a broken mechanic? Maybe, heck I'd even lean towards probably. But does OP know that for certain? Even if they do actually know it, they have a darn good argument if ZOS tries to punish them that they have absolutely zero way of knowing its not.

Well put it this way.. before I fired up the screen recorder.. (this was the reason I started it up).. I was off to the side of the balcony level of the tower. They (DC) were lined up single file on the same rock.. taking turns one by one to dragon leap and crit rush up onto the tower. 6 or 7 of them in a row. When they dropped down they repeated this same action.

Coordinated accident perhaps?

I don't disagree with you. I know they were likely doing it on purpose. I'm just pointing out that they could quite easily argue they didn't know it was wrong, and thats a failure on the part of ZOS.

SwaminoNowlino

@yodased All I am arguing is that it is not obvious. Its a mechanic that has been in the game from the beginning, and ZOS has never publically stated outside of these forum posts that its wrong. I'm just asking for them to put up a sign.

And your argument is a logical fallacy. When you become licensed to drive, signing the TOS in this metaphor, things such as that are clearly stated.