Exploiters at it Again!

Cuyler

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

What are you getting on about? go to the natch potes thread, the orginal message is there in black and white. I didn't edit ***. I'm editing my statements because what I want to say to you sympathizers the first time around would get me forum banned immediately. So I need to edit MY statements, after a few more sips of coffee.

And I'm not sure you actually know what critical thinking is at this point. You're describing a loop-hole that con-artist's use to get out of being labeled an exploiter as being reason to not fight the good fight here? first of all GG, second you're not thinking critically.

I realize that there are a few legitimate excuses, thanks Cpt. obvious. But clearly, as this thread shows there are those who will use these excuses to simply CON.

EDIT: here I'll even link it to you, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

I'm not entirely sure you understand the definition of critical thinking... I'll just leave this here for you, "Critical Thinking - the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

See the word objective? This is something I am able to be regarding this, as I am performing an objective analysis to point out why 90+% of the players are probably unaware that this is an exploit. You have already decided that anyone doing this is fully aware of it and is 100% unequivocally a cheater and must be punished. i.e. not objective.

No you're putting words in my mouth. Thanks for speaking for me. What I said, IT IS AN EXPLOIT. I posted clearly the basis for this FACT! and said it's up to us to report it. I singled out a specific player here, because of his statements to continue doing it WHILE KNOWING 100% IT IS NOT INTENDED. YOU sir have taken it upon yourself to put words in my mouth and say,

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

"You have already decided that anyone doing this is fully aware of it and is 100% unequivocally a cheater and must be punished. i.e. not objective.

What I said was that it's up to us to report them, and let ZOS figure it out. All you've essentially done here is muddy the issue further, while giving more ammunition to bad guys, GG I hope your impressed with yourself.

Cuyler

Recremen wrote: »

Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.

Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.

AND this should be enough evidence:

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.

Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.

Korah_Eaglecry

Logic of Exploiters and Hackers


It was there to break into. Its the store owners fault for putting those jewels on display where I could see them, and if I broke the glass I could take them. Dont blame me, blame the Jewelry Store Owner.

Ashtaris

_Chaos wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

Reporting @Cuyler for being mean and making personal attacks.


Many people as well as myself have been leaping into keeps since the beginning of the game, nothings changed, and never will. See you on the inside of your keep tonight sweet cheeks!

P.S
Is it really exploiting if ZOS intentionally put it in the game after knowing full well that it worked this way?
j/k your opinion doesn't matter, it was a rhetorical question.

That's fine Chaos, I don't mind losing my forum acct if it means another exploiter is brought out from the toxic underbelly of the game. I don't need to continue either and you've sufficiently made everyone aware of your intentions here.

P.S. grow up

@Cuyler

If I host an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and provide a 60oz of Whiskey for all my members to drink, is it the fault of the AA members for drinking it? Or mine for bringing that whiskey?

If ZOS hosts a game and provides faulty mechanics that originally worked, is it the fault of players for using the new mechanics that ZOS deemed fit, even though they could've kept the old ones in place?

You both share the blame. One for bringing the bottle to the meeting promoting the temptation for the members to take a drink, and the members for not having the willpower and resolve to leave the bottle alone. If you took the drink, then you are weak.

rfennell_ESO

People need to understand that while some of it is people rushing into keeps and dragon leaping into keeps or resources...

There are those using no clip to move through the walls to get in.

The smart ones do it after other got in via dragon leap...

Ever seen when you are defending a resource tower and a couple tanky builds get through and up to the 2nd level and when you go up there, well there are now 10 guys you didn't see run through the bottom up there? I have...

Docmandu

_Chaos wrote: »

Is it really exploiting if ZOS intentionally put it in the game after knowing full well that it worked this way?

Is it theft if you forget to lock your front door and I go shopping in your home?! Or if your lock doesn't work ok, you know it, but didn't have time to fix it.. so free for all inside your house.

Stop making stupid excuses.. you know damn well ZOS doesn't intend you to do this.. if you decide to do it anyway, be a man about it and admit to it instead of making up all these excuses.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

I've posted this elsewhere but it follows the theme in this thread. When I used to play I could have the ability to chain cast remembrance or p.i., this has to do the with lag I believe. Sometimes the chaining registered other times it did not, sometimes the first legitmate cast did not register but the second did. I was trying to heal, trying to work through the lag and trying to police myself as chain casting an ult feels like exploiting. In all those instances, work or not, the ult button was lit to fire.

But is it though or is it a 'clever use of game mechanics' since large fights produce lag and it becomes a factor unto itself in battle? ZoS has never answered this question, and usually players when I brought this up in other threads haven't engaged in answering either.

So this, amongst other reasons is why I deinstalled, policing your own actions in a game because the game itself isn't working properly isn't fun. ZoS pushed this change and now asks players to police their behavior. I remember watching the pts videos of this happening, there is no fun in policing your own behavior because of shotty coding.

Moreover does this also mean nbs tracking through doors is also an exploit? I see dragonknights specifically mentioned but not nbs. The only reason, to me, this is now a big deal is because all classes can acheive what dks and nbs have done for years.

At least nobody needs to worry about me exploiting in game.

Cuyler

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

I've posted this elsewhere but it follows the theme in this thread. When I used to play I could have the ability to chain cast remembrance or p.i., this has to do the with lag I believe. Sometimes the chaining registered other times it did not, sometimes the first legitmate cast did not register but the second did. I was trying to heal, trying to work through the lag and trying to police myself as chain casting an ult feels like exploiting. In all those instances, work or not, the ult button was lit to fire.

But is it though or is it a 'clever use of game mechanics' since large fights produce lag and it becomes a factor unto itself in battle? ZoS has never answered this question, and usually players when I brought this up in other threads haven't engaged in answering either.

So this, amongst other reasons is why I deinstalled, policing your own actions in a game because the game itself isn't working properly isn't fun. ZoS pushed this change and now asks players to police their behavior. I remember watching the pts videos of this happening, there is no fun in policing your own behavior because of shotty coding.

Moreover does this also mean nbs tracking through doors is also an exploit? I see dragonknights specifically mentioned but not nbs. The only reason, to me, this is now a big deal is because all classes can acheive what dks and nbs have done for years.

At least nobody needs to worry about me exploiting in game.

It's not just DKs, it's all classes. Jessica response is framed towards DKs because the question was asked about DKs. The premise is simple however.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.

_Chaos

Cinder blocks can come up with better counter arguments than you plebs.

Social Justice Warriors, Unite! Together you can make debates last hours while having no ground to stand on.

@yodased So if I didn't make a forum account, I wouldn't be exploiting? Great reasoning LOL

Ritzey01

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Logic of Exploiters and Hackers


It was there to break into. Its the store owners fault for putting those jewels on display where I could see them, and if I broke the glass I could take them. Dont blame me, blame the Jewelry Store Owner.

This is too true!!!

yodased

_Chaos wrote: »

Cinder blocks can come up with better counter arguments than you plebs.

Social Justice Warriors, Unite! Together you can make debates last hours while having no ground to stand on.

@yodased So if I didn't make a forum account, I wouldn't be exploiting? Great reasoning LOL

no actually my argument was the exact opposite, even if you don't know you are exploiting and you do it, you still should be banned for it.

Recremen

Cuyler wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.

Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.

AND this should be enough evidence:

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.

Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.

But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.

Xjcon

_Chaos wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

_Chaos wrote: »

Reporting @Cuyler for being mean and making personal attacks.


Many people as well as myself have been leaping into keeps since the beginning of the game, nothings changed, and never will. See you on the inside of your keep tonight sweet cheeks!

P.S
Is it really exploiting if ZOS intentionally put it in the game after knowing full well that it worked this way?
j/k your opinion doesn't matter, it was a rhetorical question.

That's fine Chaos, I don't mind losing my forum acct if it means another exploiter is brought out from the toxic underbelly of the game. I don't need to continue either and you've sufficiently made everyone aware of your intentions here.

P.S. grow up

@Cuyler

If I host an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and provide a 60oz of Whiskey for all my members to drink, is it the fault of the AA members for drinking it? Or mine for bringing that whiskey?

If ZOS hosts a game and provides faulty mechanics that originally worked, is it the fault of players for using the new mechanics that ZOS deemed fit, even though they could've kept the old ones in place?

Your analogy Is flawed. There is no rule/law that says those people can't indulge in alcohol. AA is about a person's self control. And anyone serious about not drinking wouldn't take up that offer.

If you turn on a road and the speed limit is 45 but your cars governor is 160, does that mean it's perfectly fine to do 160 anytime you please? No. And if you were reported doing 160 on a street with a 45 MPH you would likely lose the privilege to drive.

ESO has rules about using bugs or exploits, just because your a person that thinks it's OK to use exploits doesn't make it OK.

Like @cuyler said it will be a step in the right direction if ZoS started to ban players more frequently.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

@Cuyler That's good to know.

Do you have an opinion on my ult quandary?

Molag_Crow

Some still don't understand. If an exploit exists in a game and is recognized as an exploit, then it needs to be fixed ASAP.

It shouldn't have to come down to the player policing him/herself.

If I'm on a DK and I'm outside of a keep's wall with a bunch of enemy players standing on the edge, you can bet that I'll try to use my range abilities, especially dragon leap, because it's an ultimate, it's a range ability to be used whenever you desire, and if it just so happens that the ability will register and throw me up onto that wall with the enemies, then so be it. Is it my fault for trying? should I have not pressed my ultimate? am I naughty for pressing my ultimate at a target up on a wall?...

I'm not promoting exploiting, I'm just trying to explain that it's one of those exploits that isn't hiding behind some shady use of mechanics, or some cheat engine, it's blatant, it's obviously, it's.. it's PART of the game! you don't just stop there and think "Right, should I use my dragon leap on my target?" because in the heat of battle, especially when your team's trying to break into a keep, you'll use everything you've got on the enemies players standing on the edge of a wall, exposing themselves. Siege weapons and range abilities. It just so happens that THAT ability would launch you up to your target.

Fix it though, sure. We actually want players to use siege weapons to get into keeps, not leaping, I know, I get that.

Cuyler

Recremen wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.

Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.

AND this should be enough evidence:

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.

Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.

But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.

Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?

yodased

Honestly it is not going to change anyone's mind about this talking about it.

Those that see exploitative behavior as the problem of the creator will never agree with those who feel exploitative behavior is the problem of the exploiter.

_Chaos

@yodased

Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?

yodased wrote: »

Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.

Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?

yodased wrote: »

You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.

What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.

yodased wrote: »

you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.

If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.

Cuyler

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Cuyler That's good to know.

Do you have an opinion on my ult quandary?

I'm assuming you mean policing yourself? yea it sucks. And no I don't have an answer other than hold ZOS accountable for the development of this game, or close you acct. I think you did what was best for you.

rfennell_ESO

yodased wrote: »

Honestly it is not going to change anyone's mind about this talking about it.

Those that see exploitative behavior as the problem of the creator will never agree with those who feel exploitative behavior is the problem of the exploiter.

There are certain resource towers that you can jump into with a horse. There was a keep where you could do the same thing.

There are some towers you can ambush/lotus/'dragon leap and now crit rush into.

Those things are mostly on ZOS.

But do yourself a favor and start counting how many got in that way with some of these cheats. You will note that after the first rush of them to the keep or tower... others will get in another more sinister way.

_Chaos

Hey guys we're going to ban anyone using Remembrance, because it produces an exploit where other people get teleported all around the map, even though you didn't know about it we're still banning you. Because @yodased.

amirite

yodased

_Chaos wrote: »

@yodased

Lets break it down real slow for you, mmkay?

yodased wrote: »

Real world examples is driving 100mph on a 65mph zone and stating you didn't know the speed limit, so it's acceptable.

Even when there's no speed limit signs posted anywhere?

This is the breakdown because a reasonable expectation of following rules here follows society. You know that there are not roads that are 100mph, because you did not see a sign does not mean it was not posted. Also take that to court and tell them you didn't see the posted speed limit so you figured there wasn't one. Let me know how that works out for you.

Lets look at california, cause its cool
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/speed_limits+

"The maximum speed limit on most California highways is 65 mph. You may drive 70 mph where posted. Unless otherwise posted, the maximum speed limit is 55 mph on a two-lane undivided highway and for vehicles towing trailers."

So take that "THERE IS NO RULES IF THERE IS NO SIGN" logic right outta here.

yodased wrote: »

You accept that every rule that they make you will not break, if you know them or not, when you sign your name to that Terms of Service.

What rule? Rules have to be made before they can be broken, where are you seeing this rule in-game? Forum posts are not official game rules FYI, if that were the case it would be mandatory to have a forum account, which is not the case.

The fact that there are clear barriers to entry and people are using illegitimate ways to access those areas, or you think that clipping through a wall is ok.

yodased wrote: »

you don't have to specifically search for everything, you make a blanket acceptance of these rules, made known or not.

If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.

This is obviously a strawman here and doesn't even make sense.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Indeed, that's literally the point I was at, logging in and playing was too utterly stressful. I felt very conflicted at the time because I think ESO is a wonderful world and been playing these games since morrowind (watched my bro play daggerfal) but after a day that stress went all away. It certainly was the right desicion but I do come back here hoping to read changes that will better those performance issues.

yodased

_Chaos wrote: »

Hey guys we're going to ban anyone using Remembrance, because it produces an exploit where other people get teleported all around the map, even though you didn't know about it we're still banning you. Because @yodased.

amirite

Like I said, we are opposed views here. You feel the onus is on the developer for making exploits possible, I feel the onus is on the player to not use them.

Whichever, it doesn't matter, neither of us is "right", but your line of thinking will put you in situations a lot more often where you have to explain yourself than mine.

To make sure you understand also, I am talking about people using ambush, crit charge or leap to go through walls and doors, not jumping from postern to keep or rock to tower.

How is that even a discussion? One is a clear exploit of the games physical barriers, one is a gray area using skills as intended.

Also, if you saw that you were glitching people out using remeberance and continued to do it, then yes you should be banned because you knowingly were exploiting something.

See the issue is you feel you are entitled to use physics breaking actions because they are there and I don't feel that entitlement.

Recremen

Cuyler wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Wait, so folks aren't allowed to get into RESOURCE TOWERS either now? Using mechanics that are working entirely as intended? Some of these towers you can straight up use your mount to leap onto!! I highly doubt that this is not intended or the terrain wouldn't be like that around those resource towers.

Hopefully reporting enough people that do it, will prompt either A) a response from ZOS, or enough players banned for it, where we can derive the exact answer.

AND this should be enough evidence:

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Reposting the same exploit serves to get players discussing but does not serve to address the issue.

Cori, refers to this as an exploit here, in this thread. however may be unintentional.

But Cori is a forum moderator, not one of the devs, far as I know, OP preconditioned her to calling it an exploit, so that's not really good enough on its own. It's bad enough that players are complaining about leaping onto the inner wall from the outer wall and ruining a perfectly valid mechanic, it's downright zealotry to be whining about getting into resource towers, which don't have a wall.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug.

Resource towers have doors? which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the resource tower is made of? is that not a wall? And could you please post where you got that jumping from outer to inner walls is a valid mechanic?

Resource towers have balconies? Which I'm assuming are there for a reason. What is that thing the tower balconies are open to? Is it not the outside air?

Seriously, if you can fire arrows, abilities, and siege from those balconies, then it should be 100% fair game to get to them using abilities, as long as the abilities are functioning as intended and not doing something like breaking the vertical axis checks. That, by the way, is why leaping from the outer wall to the inner is a completely valid mechanic. The ability functions the same inside a keep as it does anywhere else. Nobody is breaking the code or exploiting a bug to make it work different from how it normally does. I'm sure the only reason the devs backpedaled and are considering it an exploit now is due to people complaining about DK still being able to do a cool thing. But if someone can leap from the inner to the outer and not be called an exploiter, why are they not open to the same counterattack? It's madness. Both players are in a valid range for the ability, let them hit each other.

kadar

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We've removed the video from the opening post of this discussion due to naming and shaming. We are aware of this bug. If you wish to report someone for exploiting you should use the report function in-game.

Wait... am I going to get reported for getting into resource towers? I mean I can freaking jump into some of them without using any sort of gap closer or Ultimate. Am I exploiting?

I've always thought that the possibility of someone finding a say into a tower or onto a keep wall was a cool thing. Adds flavor and unpredictability, imo. (using mechanics and tools given to us by ZOS that are working as intended like...jumping or gap closing.)
Why should Ambush, for example, that teleports the user through the shadows, not allow me access into a tower if someone is dumb enough to stand there hitting me with resto light attacks?

pjwb16_ESO

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

People still PvP in ESO?

best guy ever, my mvp

Lenikus

_Chaos wrote: »

If Canada outlawed Oakleys and didn't tell anyone, you'd really blame the people wearing the designer sunglasses? Because known or not, you are a citizen of Canada and that's against the law. SURPRISE MOTHER*&%*ER, you're being deported. L2ReadMinds.

You don't really understand how the ToS work..
You agree'd to every rule the moment you click'd Agree and started playing.

As for the exploit, Just use the in-game report function.
And i'm not sure anyone is even reporting teh people who made use of the bug'd skills Leap and Crit. Charge, but OP surely gonna get suspended by his posts due to repeated disrespect towards ZoS, teh game, and other players.

Rohamad_Ali

Day 8

Still can't PvP

Uno dos tres cuatro ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NiwqRSCWw2g

Xjcon

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It is not intended that players can completely bypass core Keep capture mechanics by leaping onto walls and into enemy Keeps. You should always have to enter enemy Keeps by taking down a door or wall - any other way is a bug. We are aware that Dragonknights have been able to do this for a while, and and are working to change it.

Read this again^, until it really sinks in. All these excuses are just BS, get some self control, pls.

Keep posting and editing it man, it aint worth a damn. If we went to court about this and you tried to use that, any judge would laugh you out of the court room. No where in the TOS does it say I have to search the forums every patch about every possible permutation of ability usage. No where in the TOS does it even say I have to know the forums exist. So I could easily argue, and win 100% of the time that I had no way of knowing it was an "exploit."

But please continue to live in your world without nuance or critical thinking. It makes these forums so much more interesting.

Ignorance won't ever win in a court of law. Any Resonably prudent person would see that it's a "Bug" not a "Feature".