Shameful Metoer cheats from a top EP guild NA Trueflame

Lava_Croft

Jhunn wrote: »

It's sad that top tier players will now have to live with the doubt. It's like pro cycling - everyone finishing top 10 in Tour de France is automatically accused of doping.

I do understand why Zazeer did this and in my opinion it was the only way to get ZOS' full attention, though the timing couldn't be any worse. But I don't expect ZOS to handle this good enough.

A ton of top tier players happily exploited *** like Overload bar or dual Mundus, so they can cry me a river. They've had to live with the doubt they cast on themselves for so long already that I think they're pretty much used to it by now.

And ZOS? They're pretty much screwed at this point, since this Cheat Engine hacking isn't going anywhere anytime soon. People who will use this tool to hack without going overboard with the values they change will go unnoticed for a long, long time.

Hammy01

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Well now we've also learned that the 3 hit combo in 1 second is not good animation canceling but in fact a byproduct of the cheat engine speed up dynamic . Great . So now anytime someone gets killed instantly by a 3 hit combo expect to get reported as well with the cheat engine as the culprit . I always wondered why I couldn't duplicate it , now I know .

It's funny you bring this up but in almost every "Macro" thread you have people claiming that it was not possible to use multiple skills in one second due to cooldowns and that players just needed to learn how to play "git gud".... now that the cat is out of the bag I wonder if these same players are still singing the same song?

For the record though.. if any PC players really love the game but don't want to put up with the cheaters.. come on over to the consoles. I mean we don't have addons to help us out nor do we have text chat (yet) but the game is still fun and enjoyable!

Hammy!!

Rohamad_Ali

Hammy01 wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Well now we've also learned that the 3 hit combo in 1 second is not good animation canceling but in fact a byproduct of the cheat engine speed up dynamic . Great . So now anytime someone gets killed instantly by a 3 hit combo expect to get reported as well with the cheat engine as the culprit . I always wondered why I couldn't duplicate it , now I know .

It's funny you bring this up but in almost every "Macro" thread you have people claiming that it was not possible to use multiple skills in one second due to cooldowns and that players just needed to learn how to play "git gud".... now that the cat is out of the bag I wonder if these same players are still singing the same song?

For the record though.. if any PC players really love the game but don't want to put up with the cheaters.. come on over to the consoles. I mean we don't have addons to help us out nor do we have text chat (yet) but the game is still fun and enjoyable!

Hammy!!

I know right . My Son took the Ps4 . My gift for straight A's . Otherwise I would because I did get an account copy .

Mako1132

Hammy01 wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Well now we've also learned that the 3 hit combo in 1 second is not good animation canceling but in fact a byproduct of the cheat engine speed up dynamic . Great . So now anytime someone gets killed instantly by a 3 hit combo expect to get reported as well with the cheat engine as the culprit . I always wondered why I couldn't duplicate it , now I know .

It's funny you bring this up but in almost every "Macro" thread you have people claiming that it was not possible to use multiple skills in one second due to cooldowns and that players just needed to learn how to play "git gud".... now that the cat is out of the bag I wonder if these same players are still singing the same song?

For the record though.. if any PC players really love the game but don't want to put up with the cheaters.. come on over to the consoles. I mean we don't have addons to help us out nor do we have text chat (yet) but the game is still fun and enjoyable!

Hammy!!

It is possible to have three shots hit in one second, though.

Daveheart

When I found out about the double Mundus exploit and how it worked, I immediately went to test it, screenshot everything, report it to ZOS with exact steps to replicate it, and then fixed myself. I then spent about three hours with Gilliam testing every armor set we could think of to make sure that the same exploit wouldn't also apply to other sets. If it had been a set or set of actions that could only really be tested against other characters, we'd have likely enlisted an ally (neither of us had alts on a different alliance at the time) and gone into Cyrodiil for testing. We'd have found some out of the way spot if it were only working on live and just tested there. Under no circumstances would we have introduced something like this into general combat for PvP, and I think almost every single one of the other theorycrafters I know would have worked in the same manner.

There have already been a lot of accusations flying about, and while some of them are probably landing on the mark, I think many of these are still hitting 100% innocent people. I also feel like at some point I'm going to get some idiot casting shade on me for something that was completely legitimate. Do people really think that everyone who's ever made a 1vX video is using this software? If so, that's pretty sad too.

Hammy01

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Hammy01 wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Well now we've also learned that the 3 hit combo in 1 second is not good animation canceling but in fact a byproduct of the cheat engine speed up dynamic . Great . So now anytime someone gets killed instantly by a 3 hit combo expect to get reported as well with the cheat engine as the culprit . I always wondered why I couldn't duplicate it , now I know .

It's funny you bring this up but in almost every "Macro" thread you have people claiming that it was not possible to use multiple skills in one second due to cooldowns and that players just needed to learn how to play "git gud".... now that the cat is out of the bag I wonder if these same players are still singing the same song?

For the record though.. if any PC players really love the game but don't want to put up with the cheaters.. come on over to the consoles. I mean we don't have addons to help us out nor do we have text chat (yet) but the game is still fun and enjoyable!

Hammy!!

I know right . My Son took the Ps4 . My gift for straight A's . Otherwise I would because I did get an account copy .

Lolll... well maybe if his grades slip you can take it back ... J/k I really hope he continues with the straight A's.

Muizer

Well I'd rather be told about these things than be kept in the dark because someone else has decided it's "for the good of the community".

DUTCH_REAPER

Multiple problems here. The software that allows this crap to happen and players who use it.

I use to say the real enemy in pvp is the lag...but I was wrong. It's people who do that crap. ZOS we await your action on this because many will either have yet another reason to stop playing and move on to another game or wait and see if you take the appropriate actions needed for the people who don't do crap like that.

Mako1132

I actually believe it and something like this really worries me. ZOS has had a past of banning people simply for receiving too many reports about the person.

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Jhunn

I know a couple innocent EU players with lots of 'cheating' reports who's been banned today. Doesn't look good.

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rfennell_ESO

Before people start randomly defending people they like...


There are a whole bunch of templars whose jabs spam was way faster than it should have been.

They all claim skill... but it was obviously not skill.

Glory

I actually believe it and something like this really worries me. ZOS has had a past of banning people simply for receiving too many reports about the person.

Collateral damage incoming. I have a feeling many who are hacking will receive temp bans to damage control alongside some wrongful temp bans.

My opinion: those who have definitive proof (eg. video) of said hacks should receive the permaboot and those without should be thoroughly investigated to determine if permaban is necessary.

Edit: May be a good idea to avoid ESO altogether for the next couple days to hide from the "I lost so you're a hacker" reports that are undoubtedly wrongfully going around. Not saying actual reports aren't valid, but ZOS may be doing carpet banning on all reports.

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Ghostbane

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Now you see them all proclaim their innocence.

I've been wronged!

Lol.

Can't wait till I see you complaining about being locked out.

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Ishammael

Azurethe wrote: »

Funny, I just a couple minutes ago got banned from ESO. It appears some people who weren't very good at the game decided to all send in tickets reporting me for using the Cheat Engine. So now I'm stuck for a couple days, and on top of that I lost the chance to buy that epic mount. Like really, F*ck you ZOS, how about reviewing me account before banning me

This here is case in point of why zazeer's actions were wrong. Now accusations can fly -- and be believed without proof.

Lava_Croft

Jhunn wrote: »

I know a couple innocent EU players with lots of 'cheating' reports who's been banned today. Doesn't look good.

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The problem with these things is that unless you sit next to them as they play, you cannot know if they are innocent or not. Not saying they are guilty at all, but you can't as easily say the opposite either. There will most likely be a host of false bans the coming time, just as a lot of positive bans.

Flake

Zenimax should ban them all. We the community should tarnish their names, not only in this game but the next.

Zenimax get moving on deploying something like GG.

Xsorus

PosternHouse wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rofl; I can't just help laughing at all the people crying about how the game is now doomed and will die now cause some cheat program that will probably be fixed within a week just popped up. The game didn't die when blinkxy was running around cheating it up; and that guy was around forever.

Cheatengine, one of the programs in question, has worked with ESO since beta. The only thing people would do with it before is increase their run speed, which also had the side effect of reducing their GCD's. A actual hacker with some actual talent poked and prodded ESO and found that they could do so much more. Client side values are being manipulated.

Blinxey and Bishop of souls were two people who did tickle DPS and tanked lawts of damage. We now have dozens and dozens of people spamming ultimates, multiplying their regen values, and etc. Maybe there is a way ZoS can implement server side detection of the cheat ... but they haven't even managed to spot Cheatengine speedhack.

The game is dead. It won't come back from this unless ZoS takes immediate and drastic action ... which they won't. See you in CU.

As someone who's been playing MMOs for a very long time, and deal with a whole lot of people cheating in certain ones *cough* radar *cough*....Its not dead..quit being hyperbolic...

frozywozy

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

This better be fixed by the time DB patch comes out. I still wanna play some DB, but will be waiting until after this is dealt with.

Edit: Also the issues with gap closers better be fixed before the patch goes live to. Delay the patch if you have to.

This will not be fixed for DB, from what I've heard. Zenimax will focus on releasing DB without any major bug. Then they will most likely spend the next month fixing new bugs coming up with DB. And then they will start working on solving the issues with hacks. In the meantime I think the least they could do would be to engage more staff to take care of reports and to ban permanently anybody caught using it.

Xsorus

KisoValley wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rofl; I can't just help laughing at all the people crying about how the game is now doomed and will die now cause some cheat program that will probably be fixed within a week just popped up. The game didn't die when blinkxy was running around cheating it up; and that guy was around forever.

You do realise it's been around since beta right? People have been hiding their use of it since beta and still are.

ZOS have no way to track who is using it apart from the few people being caught on video.

Yea that don't help the argument the game is going to die if the program has been around since beta....

Xsorus

Rylana wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

They enabled it by not securing their client like every other major MMO has since Ultima. Cheat engine isnt new by any stretch, its been around for close to 20 years. How a AAA MMO company left that door wide open is baffling to say the least, but that onus is definitely fully in ZOS's yard.

Having been on the UO support team, I can tell you that no... Ultima did not have things secured, not for the longest time. ExtremeUO was the bane of the game, and could auto target players, auto cast spells and do more damage than not -- and it existed that way for years. Trying to stop programs like EUO was a nightmare, and often times relied on GMs and the CRs to monitor, track and watch players for extended periods of time to determine the best course of action. Those on the EU shards may remember me as GM Saracen.

I was part of the EU team that watched over Europa and Drachs. These kinds of issues plague all games, but usually don't erupt into the all-out, full fledged exploiting parties we're seeing now. The last time I've seen something like this was an exploit in Planetside which allowed players using cheat programs to teleport other players into a corner of a map and instantly kill them, causing the entire server to shut down at times. I was fairly well known in the Planetside community, and helped run one of the largest outfits in the game for several years.

Having had experience working with this first hand, and assisting other MMO dev teams in tracking down problems in the past, I can assure you that these kinds of issues can and do crop up, but it's the reactions and the actions of the ZOS team that will determine the outcome.

Ultima was the first real MMO, I am sure it was exploited to hell and back, but being the pioneer, it taught developers what NOT to do, and what to watch out for. Nearly every game since has adopted anti-cheat methods. SWG was a good example of this, it was nearly impossible to cheat at that game, though there was one glaring leveling exploit involving client side dat files that was never caught, you couldnt inject or modify the client. That game came out over 10 years ago. WoW set the industry standard for bot and hack protection, TOR has protection, EQ, EQ2 have CE protection, Guild wars, DaoC, LotRO, just innumerable MMOs that all had or have significant market share... they cant be cheated as easily or even at all.

So how does a modern MMO launched in 2014 and developed during the time all of these major titles were running, not have the same protections in place?

That is where ZoS failed.

I'm sorry, going to have to call *** here.

DAOC had a bunch of hack programs that worked with it....and for a better part of its life suffered from people using Radar and people using speed hacks.

and WoW had bot protections? You realize I botted like 10 toons in that game to level 80 right? That games bot detection consisted of me reporting you if I saw you botting...And it took like 10 minutes using the bot program that I had to see that around 40% of the players in a BG were actually botting all the time. Pretty much every MMO can be hit by these programs, and depending on the security most of them rely on someone to report the player...The one I know for sure that will generally get you banned 100% of the time cause the server can detect it is Speedhack...But things like botting..Yea...Good luck stopping that.

AbraXuSeXile

Would love a name and shame list will be interesting to see.

Flynch

ZOS simply can't and won't perma-ban players over this. Each and every one of those banned will create a huge strain on resources by countering the ban. Even with video and parsed data as evidence, how can they be sure everyone banned is 100% legit hacking. It's a moral compunction to make sure that the people banned are definitely hackers. not 'maybes'.

Would you prefer a company that doesn't ban hard enough, or a company that bans completely without fidelity?

No, sadly all they can realistically do is find a way to stop the hacking by introducing a secure and steadfast system between the server and client.

And I bloody well hope they do, because right now, the game is getting whipped.

Master_Kas

Jhunn wrote: »

I know a couple innocent EU players with lots of 'cheating' reports who's been banned today. Doesn't look good.

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This.

One got suspended/banned for dropping to many ultimates (while being emp which gives pretty fast ulti gen)

This is disgusting.

Mako1132

Flynch wrote: »

ZOS simply can't and won't perma-ban players over this. Each and every one of those banned will create a huge strain on resources by countering the ban. Even with video and parsed data as evidence, how can they be sure everyone banned is 100% legit hacking. It's a moral compunction to make sure that the people banned are definitely hackers. not 'maybes'.

Would you prefer a company that doesn't ban hard enough, or a company that bans completely without fidelity?

No, sadly all they can realistically do is find a way to stop the hacking by introducing a secure and steadfast system between the server and client.

And I bloody well hope they do, because right now, the game is getting whipped.

How I see it happening, and how it looks. Confirmed = permaban, under investigation = temp ban.

frozywozy

Preyfar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So how does a modern MMO launched in 2014 and developed during the time all of these major titles were running, not have the same protections in place?

That is where ZoS failed.

Given ZOS' response to the initial issues from the game's launch I think they've been fairly on point in trying to stop major issues like botting, gold sellers and other exploits. It's not perfect, but ZOS has been rather responsive in the past.

This situation, frankly, sucks. I don't even want to PVP because of this issue. I can't trust the people I'm fighting NOR the people I'm fighting with. It needs to be fixed, and fast.

There are a tons of things to do in the meantime. For example, you can level up a new magplar and get ready to beam @Zheg or @Joy_Division

Seri

God_flakes wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

We cancelled raid tonight because of this. I solo'd on my v2 just to have some fun, and after not encountering any of this and a few guildies wanting to join, we started a small group. Ended up running with friends and getting a large group going, and I'll say this, not one of the enemy groups we fought did this BS, so THANK YOU. Regardless of whether we dislike each other or not, regardless of group size and the usual petty crap, we had only one instance of a single person spamming meteor early on in the night and it was during a fight that would have been a wipe for us even without that.

I was pretty disheartened watching this thread all day long, but to the few guilds on TF left playing, thanks for restoring at least a little faith in the pvp community.

Guard ran a small group last night (seemed most people didn't want to pvp) after we played in the sewers all day. I also didn't see any groups running anything suspicious but Barra and I did witness an EP running Go Go Gadget legs north of bleakers. They were running faster than any person I've ever seen in the game. I message them and of course called them out on it and their response was "I'm an Orc with maxed speed". <eyeroll>

I then had to sit there and wonder about all those times I saw someone with infinite health and infinite stamina and running so fast nobody could catch them and super fast WB's and people I've seen inside keeps that shouldn't have been able to get in there. I always knew something suspicious was going on but I guess I am naive to stuff like this. I had no idea there was some easily accessible program out there. Ixty has threatened to G-kick anyone using this program but I know he's the exception not the rule. I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. And it's so disheartening because there are so many of us who love this game and devote so much time to our characters and doing things RIGHT. Zos is actually punishing us at this point by not doing anything about this and for letting this go on as long as it has.

You know, I was going to agree with that post, but then you had to go and say

I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge.

I mean, c'mon. Are you really going to suggest that a) EP as a faction are unique in 40v5, and b) because people would steamtrain zerg that those people would also be into hacking the game client? That's complete and utter garbage.

Fine. And I will say this this...I find this all very coincidental just a mere few days after the infamous PM thread/video where PM can be heard to be accusing certain people of cheating. Those people came here with their righteous indignation and demanded apologies. Now some in this community are left to wonder, is it true? Was PM right? Have their experience with certain people led them to suspect an "edge"? 3, 2, 1 to when those people come here and blast me and *insist* on an apology from me, as well. There are people who are "good" and then there are people who seem strangely good. And I do believe a hyper competitive personality often is driven to cheat to sustain their ego. All I am saying is I wouldn't be knocked over by a feather if it came out that many people are cheating with this very easy to obtain program...many more than we think and many the community has had naive respect for.

Well sure, you can say that, because that still isn't making the broad leap of 'faction zerged 40v5' -> 'faction must use programs to cheat'. You've been around long enough to know that all factions will blob quite happily when the time is right. Just as someone who's played EP predominantly since launch, I refuse to be painted with the same brush as those that are cheating, and I suspect many of my fellow EP would be in a similar boat.

Why am I surprised you glossed over my nod to PM (whom I detest because of their dishonorable pvp behavior, and I'm not just talking stacking 40 on 5, there are many things EP has done the past 2 months that demo their overall anticompetitive behavior and all have been hashed over here again and again) and rather got hung up on one issue? I am trying to redeem PM and validate their claims in that video and at least give them the benefit of the doubt (because I'm sure PM has lots of players who aren't cheating) that their run-ins with certain top tier players may have been what has caused their accusations and suspicions. I admit I have had the same run-ins and suspicions.

I glossed over it because I have no idea who or what that PM video thread you're referring to is. You mentioned the video, then suggested EP as a faction would cheat, which is a garbage claim. Only thinking about it now I assume you're referring to Pact Militia. Do not lump me with them. I am not one of them, do not group with them, and if TF is red or turning red, will usually be in PvE land, another campaign or sometimes my DC.

Turelus

Mako1132 wrote: »

I actually believe it and something like this really worries me. ZOS has had a past of banning people simply for receiving too many reports about the person.

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Pretty sure if this was true @AbraXuSeXile would have vanished ages ago.

I don't know if I can think of a single other player who I have heard be reported more than him on the EU servers. He was the troll of our hearts.

Flynch

Mako1132 wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

ZOS simply can't and won't perma-ban players over this. Each and every one of those banned will create a huge strain on resources by countering the ban. Even with video and parsed data as evidence, how can they be sure everyone banned is 100% legit hacking. It's a moral compunction to make sure that the people banned are definitely hackers. not 'maybes'.

Would you prefer a company that doesn't ban hard enough, or a company that bans completely without fidelity?

No, sadly all they can realistically do is find a way to stop the hacking by introducing a secure and steadfast system between the server and client.

And I bloody well hope they do, because right now, the game is getting whipped.

How I see it happening, and how it looks. Confirmed = permaban, under investigation = temp ban.

Yeah that's basically the only way it can possibly go down.

But the main issue is, where do you even start? The breach has been around for such a long time now. The amount of resources needed is probably insurmountable at this point, and I believe this is where the compromise will stem from.

rfennell_ESO

Ghostbane wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Now you see them all proclaim their innocence.

I've been wronged!

Lol.

Can't wait till I see you complaining about being locked out.

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You can wait, but it won't happen.

PrinceFabious

Every single wanna-be 1vXer like Kodi and Reyals have just been exposed. It all makes sense now.
Anyways, whats games are yall going to he playing now?