Shameful Metoer cheats from a top EP guild NA Trueflame

KisoValley

Xsorus wrote: »

Rofl; I can't just help laughing at all the people crying about how the game is now doomed and will die now cause some cheat program that will probably be fixed within a week just popped up. The game didn't die when blinkxy was running around cheating it up; and that guy was around forever.

You do realise it's been around since beta right? People have been hiding their use of it since beta and still are.

ZOS have no way to track who is using it apart from the few people being caught on video.

KisoValley

Mako1132 wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

Wargaard wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDML4qKekGY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znZvXiU6f0E


Ban these idiots and FIX THIS PROBLEM. This is GAME BREAKING.

So tell me. Without these "idiots", who are blatantly and doing this openly (perhaps to prove a point?) how else would anyone know??
I mean I haven't seen you (and many now vocal others) campaigning against the very prevalent speed hacks....
Just sayin'.

On the other hand for the sake of the game ofc this needs to be fixed asap. Literally, ASAP.

Everyone doing this should be perma banned no questions asked.

ZOS is aware, and the people you're calling out have made them aware in the past. It's just not good form to publish hacks and exploits (and against the TOS). However, I believe there's a point where if something becomes as widespread as it seemingly is right now that it's ok to be vocal about it.

Exactly. ZOS have known about this all along, and because they've done nothing about it this is what has happened. Don't blame the players for exploiting it, ZOS are basically saying it's fine to do it seeing as they've done nothing about it for so long.

This happened precisely because of players spreading the knowledge and encouraging it. ZOS never said it was ok, or that you wouldn't be banned for it. You don't know what actions ZOS has taken regarding hackers/exploiters because they don't tell you about it. The only thing ZOS is guilty of is preventing use of the program for so long, but again that's not to say they haven't done anything. It's entirely on the players. Every one of us has the option to do what you know is the right thing to do.

It's been around forever. They literally have 0 protection against this and it's been going on for just as long, just people actually cared and made sure they didn't make it obvious when they were exploiting (apart from speed hacks, pretty difficult to hide that). I mean Jagex (who are a terrible company btw) run a terrible MMO called Runescape and even they have protection against Cheat Engine with far less money, resources and staff.

Blame the players all you want... ZOS brought it upon themselves.

I don't have a way of stopping someone from shooting me. That doesn't mean if I get shot, I brought it upon myself. The person with the gun is at fault. ZOS should be preventing this because they are capable of doing it (hopefully), but that doesn't mean they're at fault for the actions of certain players or that they somehow deserved it. Get real man.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Hi Jessica,

What are the chances of seeing some sort of reply after the investigation with a report of action taken (not name and shamed just an idea of whether its something which is actually enforced). Things like this seriously discredit the game and generally the lack of information furthers the problem. Thanks.

We'll see what we can do. It's not an unreasonable request, especially considering the circumstances.

Awesome

Actually, if you shoot them first, you've stopped them shooting you. Also if you don't *** their sister or whatever you did to *** them off to the point they'll shoot you that'll also stop them shooting you.

As for ZOS should hopefully be preventing this? They have no tools or people in place who can or know how to track who is using it. The only people who will get banned are those who just don't give a *** or don't take ZOS serious enough and let themselves be vidded exploiting.

Preyfar

ZOS should have GMs in game monitoring Cyrodiil on major fights. These exploits are REALLY easy to see live, and have killed PVP for me. And I say this as a former emp and someone who has put a ton of time into Cyrodiil. It makes me not want to go back.

KisoValley

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS should have GMs in game monitoring Cyrodiil on major fights. These exploits are REALLY easy to see live, and have killed PVP for me. And I say this as a former emp and someone who has put a ton of time into Cyrodiil. It makes me not want to go back.

Not all exploits are easy to see. Examples are: Infinite regen, or if someone is clever when using the infinite ult exploit. All it takes is someone to wear a costume, claim they're using BS/Tava's etc. and be smart about when they use ult. You're not going to calculate exactly when they have ult when fighting them but because they're wearing a costume you have no proof they're exploiting. Meanwhile they're in full DPS gear, with infinite regen/ult.

Some of course are easier to see.

Preyfar

KisoValley wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS should have GMs in game monitoring Cyrodiil on major fights. These exploits are REALLY easy to see live, and have killed PVP for me. And I say this as a former emp and someone who has put a ton of time into Cyrodiil. It makes me not want to go back.

Not all exploits are easy to see. Examples are: Infinite regen, or if someone is clever when using the infinite ult exploit. All it takes is someone to wear a costume, claim they're using BS/Tava's etc. and be smart about when they use ult. You're not going to calculate exactly when they have ult when fighting them but because they're wearing a costume you have no proof they're exploiting. Meanwhile they're in full DPS gear, with infinite regen/ult.

Some of course are easier to see.

Subtle things like slightly increased speed and dodge roll may not be easier to see, but the ultimate spamming is. Even Tava's won't let somebody spam meteors consecutively. But I get what you mean. Those who are smart about it are going to be hard to see, and may be too subtle to notice.

I started getting upset a month ago with the shuffle stacking, and everyone told me it was just skill. I've been PVPing since launch, and what I was seeing then wasn't skill. When I watch 10+ people attack one guy who's dodging every single attack, ignoring caltrops, meteors and more, even radiants... that's NOT normal. But everyone said it was just skill. After what I saw last night... eugh. I dunno.

I am just severely discouraged.

God_flakes

Zheg wrote: »

We cancelled raid tonight because of this. I solo'd on my v2 just to have some fun, and after not encountering any of this and a few guildies wanting to join, we started a small group. Ended up running with friends and getting a large group going, and I'll say this, not one of the enemy groups we fought did this BS, so THANK YOU. Regardless of whether we dislike each other or not, regardless of group size and the usual petty crap, we had only one instance of a single person spamming meteor early on in the night and it was during a fight that would have been a wipe for us even without that.

I was pretty disheartened watching this thread all day long, but to the few guilds on TF left playing, thanks for restoring at least a little faith in the pvp community.

Guard ran a small group last night (seemed most people didn't want to pvp) after we played in the sewers all day. I also didn't see any groups running anything suspicious but Barra and I did witness an EP running Go Go Gadget legs north of bleakers. They were running faster than any person I've ever seen in the game. I message them and of course called them out on it and their response was "I'm an Orc with maxed speed". <eyeroll>

I then had to sit there and wonder about all those times I saw someone with infinite health and infinite stamina and running so fast nobody could catch them and super fast WB's and people I've seen inside keeps that shouldn't have been able to get in there. I always knew something suspicious was going on but I guess I am naive to stuff like this. I had no idea there was some easily accessible program out there. Ixty has threatened to G-kick anyone using this program but I know he's the exception not the rule. I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. And it's so disheartening because there are so many of us who love this game and devote so much time to our characters and doing things RIGHT. Zos is actually punishing us at this point by not doing anything about this and for letting this go on as long as it has.

PrinceFabious

10/10 on how effective ZOS is at ruining their game
Welp, I had to step out of town without warning this weekend but it seems like I wont be returning to ESO. Hopefully I will see some of you guys in CU or Ark.

kalitoslime

This is garbage close the whole dam server until u fix it! Glad its not happening on console "yet'

Seri

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

We cancelled raid tonight because of this. I solo'd on my v2 just to have some fun, and after not encountering any of this and a few guildies wanting to join, we started a small group. Ended up running with friends and getting a large group going, and I'll say this, not one of the enemy groups we fought did this BS, so THANK YOU. Regardless of whether we dislike each other or not, regardless of group size and the usual petty crap, we had only one instance of a single person spamming meteor early on in the night and it was during a fight that would have been a wipe for us even without that.

I was pretty disheartened watching this thread all day long, but to the few guilds on TF left playing, thanks for restoring at least a little faith in the pvp community.

Guard ran a small group last night (seemed most people didn't want to pvp) after we played in the sewers all day. I also didn't see any groups running anything suspicious but Barra and I did witness an EP running Go Go Gadget legs north of bleakers. They were running faster than any person I've ever seen in the game. I message them and of course called them out on it and their response was "I'm an Orc with maxed speed". <eyeroll>

I then had to sit there and wonder about all those times I saw someone with infinite health and infinite stamina and running so fast nobody could catch them and super fast WB's and people I've seen inside keeps that shouldn't have been able to get in there. I always knew something suspicious was going on but I guess I am naive to stuff like this. I had no idea there was some easily accessible program out there. Ixty has threatened to G-kick anyone using this program but I know he's the exception not the rule. I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. And it's so disheartening because there are so many of us who love this game and devote so much time to our characters and doing things RIGHT. Zos is actually punishing us at this point by not doing anything about this and for letting this go on as long as it has.

You know, I was going to agree with that post, but then you had to go and say

I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge.

I mean, c'mon. Are you really going to suggest that a) EP as a faction are unique in 40v5, and b) because people would steamtrain zerg that those people would also be into hacking the game client? That's complete and utter garbage.

God_flakes

Seri wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

We cancelled raid tonight because of this. I solo'd on my v2 just to have some fun, and after not encountering any of this and a few guildies wanting to join, we started a small group. Ended up running with friends and getting a large group going, and I'll say this, not one of the enemy groups we fought did this BS, so THANK YOU. Regardless of whether we dislike each other or not, regardless of group size and the usual petty crap, we had only one instance of a single person spamming meteor early on in the night and it was during a fight that would have been a wipe for us even without that.

I was pretty disheartened watching this thread all day long, but to the few guilds on TF left playing, thanks for restoring at least a little faith in the pvp community.

Guard ran a small group last night (seemed most people didn't want to pvp) after we played in the sewers all day. I also didn't see any groups running anything suspicious but Barra and I did witness an EP running Go Go Gadget legs north of bleakers. They were running faster than any person I've ever seen in the game. I message them and of course called them out on it and their response was "I'm an Orc with maxed speed". <eyeroll>

I then had to sit there and wonder about all those times I saw someone with infinite health and infinite stamina and running so fast nobody could catch them and super fast WB's and people I've seen inside keeps that shouldn't have been able to get in there. I always knew something suspicious was going on but I guess I am naive to stuff like this. I had no idea there was some easily accessible program out there. Ixty has threatened to G-kick anyone using this program but I know he's the exception not the rule. I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. And it's so disheartening because there are so many of us who love this game and devote so much time to our characters and doing things RIGHT. Zos is actually punishing us at this point by not doing anything about this and for letting this go on as long as it has.

You know, I was going to agree with that post, but then you had to go and say

I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge.

I mean, c'mon. Are you really going to suggest that a) EP as a faction are unique in 40v5, and b) because people would steamtrain zerg that those people would also be into hacking the game client? That's complete and utter garbage.

Fine. And I will say this this...I find this all very coincidental just a mere few days after the infamous PM thread/video where PM can be heard to be accusing certain people of cheating. Those people came here with their righteous indignation and demanded apologies. Now some in this community are left to wonder, is it true? Was PM right? Have their experience with certain people led them to suspect an "edge"? 3, 2, 1 to when those people come here and blast me and *insist* on an apology from me, as well. There are people who are "good" and then there are people who seem strangely good. And I do believe a hyper competitive personality often is driven to cheat to sustain their ego. All I am saying is I wouldn't be knocked over by a feather if it came out that many people are cheating with this very easy to obtain program...many more than we think and many the community has had naive respect for.

Zheg

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Knowing nothing about that fight and how many bodies were involved, that certainly could be a legit death recap if the shooting star hit enough people/got enough KBs to generate enough ult for a dawnbreaker immediately after. A lot of people do this, and it's not an exploit.

Francis_Toliver

Naphariel wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

EP HAS NO HONOR.

It's not just EP! Just saw an AD doing it at allessia. We got it recorded.

All factions have players doing this.
Don't blame the players though, it's ZOS fault for ignoring the problem for so long.
This game needs an actual cheat protection implemented and a GM team that actually enforces the rules by banning those breaking them for longer than 24 hours.
Meanwhile, the current ZOS policy on cheating seems to be "lol just delete all forum posts and pretend nothing happened".

Don't blame the players!?!

So if a bank is robbed because someone figured a way to break in we shouldn't blame the robbers, right? After all the bank didn't protect the money....enough!

What incredibly stupid logic.

Someone that cheats is repugnant. Of course they ought to be blamed! And permanently band from the game. This was not some impulse action! This was thought out and required multiple steps to accomplish. It was without honor and these players are the stuff one needs to scrape of our shoes.

Whether ZOS needs to step up their protections or not is another topic. Yes they need to (and one hopes they are!).

But don't blame the players?!? Geeze!

Of COURSE blame the players! They are cheaters! How do you defend that! Its o.k. to cheat if you can? Only someone with some pretty distorted thinking, and pretty unethical ideas would even suggest that!?!

It is NOT o.k. to cheat. Period.

Seri

God_flakes wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

We cancelled raid tonight because of this. I solo'd on my v2 just to have some fun, and after not encountering any of this and a few guildies wanting to join, we started a small group. Ended up running with friends and getting a large group going, and I'll say this, not one of the enemy groups we fought did this BS, so THANK YOU. Regardless of whether we dislike each other or not, regardless of group size and the usual petty crap, we had only one instance of a single person spamming meteor early on in the night and it was during a fight that would have been a wipe for us even without that.

I was pretty disheartened watching this thread all day long, but to the few guilds on TF left playing, thanks for restoring at least a little faith in the pvp community.

Guard ran a small group last night (seemed most people didn't want to pvp) after we played in the sewers all day. I also didn't see any groups running anything suspicious but Barra and I did witness an EP running Go Go Gadget legs north of bleakers. They were running faster than any person I've ever seen in the game. I message them and of course called them out on it and their response was "I'm an Orc with maxed speed". <eyeroll>

I then had to sit there and wonder about all those times I saw someone with infinite health and infinite stamina and running so fast nobody could catch them and super fast WB's and people I've seen inside keeps that shouldn't have been able to get in there. I always knew something suspicious was going on but I guess I am naive to stuff like this. I had no idea there was some easily accessible program out there. Ixty has threatened to G-kick anyone using this program but I know he's the exception not the rule. I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. And it's so disheartening because there are so many of us who love this game and devote so much time to our characters and doing things RIGHT. Zos is actually punishing us at this point by not doing anything about this and for letting this go on as long as it has.

You know, I was going to agree with that post, but then you had to go and say

I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge.

I mean, c'mon. Are you really going to suggest that a) EP as a faction are unique in 40v5, and b) because people would steamtrain zerg that those people would also be into hacking the game client? That's complete and utter garbage.

Fine. And I will say this this...I find this all very coincidental just a mere few days after the infamous PM thread/video where PM can be heard to be accusing certain people of cheating. Those people came here with their righteous indignation and demanded apologies. Now some in this community are left to wonder, is it true? Was PM right? Have their experience with certain people led them to suspect an "edge"? 3, 2, 1 to when those people come here and blast me and *insist* on an apology from me, as well. There are people who are "good" and then there are people who seem strangely good. And I do believe a hyper competitive personality often is driven to cheat to sustain their ego. All I am saying is I wouldn't be knocked over by a feather if it came out that many people are cheating with this very easy to obtain program...many more than we think and many the community has had naive respect for.

Well sure, you can say that, because that still isn't making the broad leap of 'faction zerged 40v5' -> 'faction must use programs to cheat'. You've been around long enough to know that all factions will blob quite happily when the time is right. Just as someone who's played EP predominantly since launch, I refuse to be painted with the same brush as those that are cheating, and I suspect many of my fellow EP would be in a similar boat.

Rohamad_Ali

Zheg wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Knowing nothing about that fight and how many bodies were involved, that certainly could be a legit death recap if the shooting star hit enough people/got enough KBs to generate enough ult for a dawnbreaker immediately after. A lot of people do this, and it's not an exploit.

That's a shooting star and TWO Dawnbreakers off in the same death recap by the same caster . I might not be suspicious if it was one and one because DB does generate fast but two .... Hmmmm

mook-eb16_ESO

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I've witnessed how dishonorable EP as a faction can be when they stack 40 players against 5. I don't believe for a minute those same players wouldn't totally take advantage of something like this to give them an edge. .

So they stack 40 against 5 you cant kill them obv ,so they have to resort to cheating , that's just not logical. you just got zerged always best to try to have a contingency for that sort of thing.
All factions zerg and get zerged that doesn't make them cheaters and there was never any honour in this game its warfare!!
Most of us try and work within the framework that is eso no matter what faction. zerging comes from frustration of not winning or lacking the tools to develop groups with good skills.
Cheating is just for poor players, script kiddies, programmers and trolls; who really have no interest in their actual skill as a players, developing a group that has good group skills the or eso gaming community as a whole. They are the sort of people who if they were athletes' they would be taking every enhancing drug because they think wining is better than achieving their best, and for them their best is not good enough. In essence they are loosers.

Zheg

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Knowing nothing about that fight and how many bodies were involved, that certainly could be a legit death recap if the shooting star hit enough people/got enough KBs to generate enough ult for a dawnbreaker immediately after. A lot of people do this, and it's not an exploit.

That's a shooting star and TWO Dawnbreakers off in the same death recap by the same caster . I might not be suspicious if it was one and one because DB does generate fast but two .... Hmmmm

Death recaps are also buggy though and that 'two' dawnbreakers could just be the initial hit and the 2nd is registering the dot damage separately. Again, I know nothing about that fight so tam can clarify if there actually was ult spamming, but that wasn't a death recap I would chicken little over without tam saying that's what happened.

James-Wayne

I love especially how the death recap doesn't lie or cheat you... About the only honest thing you can count on!

TrueGreenSmoker

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Shooting Star it give ultimate with each person it hits and on a Sorc with its passives Dawnbreaker goes from 100 Ulti to 85 ulti and if this person has the PvP combat frenzy passive its easy to get ulti back then I do this myself too Mostly use a combo for this Det Curse Entropy Shooting Star and if i hit/kill enough i pop a Dawnbreaker right after this is happening on console too its not a hack or anything its fast ulti regen legit. what these hackers use is straight up damage like Ice Comet which does more damage and snares instead of giving ulti for each hit

mook-eb16_ESO

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

That' doesn't look like cheat really jusk valkyn scoria proc, eternal hunt dodge roll , dawn breaker then mages wrath finsher. and even if not valkyn skoria if he hit enough ppl with the shooting star it might generate ulti get the dawn breaker.

Rohamad_Ali

Zheg wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Knowing nothing about that fight and how many bodies were involved, that certainly could be a legit death recap if the shooting star hit enough people/got enough KBs to generate enough ult for a dawnbreaker immediately after. A lot of people do this, and it's not an exploit.

That's a shooting star and TWO Dawnbreakers off in the same death recap by the same caster . I might not be suspicious if it was one and one because DB does generate fast but two .... Hmmmm

Death recaps are also buggy though and that 'two' dawnbreakers could just be the initial hit and the 2nd is registering the dot damage separately. Again, I know nothing about that fight so tam can clarify if there actually was ult spamming, but that wasn't a death recap I would chicken little over without tam saying that's what happened.

On the basis of the main topic , these questionable things are what have brought us here . Starring at our peers suspiciously as we mozy over bugged death recaps and try to stir personal character into the probability of foul play afoot . Tamriel Vice says everyone is a suspect ! At least until Micheal Chiklis has completed his investigation or the right palms have been greased thoroughly ...

Preyfar

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Whether ZOS needs to step up their protections or not is another topic. Yes they need to (and one hopes they are!).

But don't blame the players?!? Geeze!

The players are 100% to blame. ZOS didn't install the software on their PCs that enabled players to cheat. They chose to do that themselves. The ONLY thing I could blame ZOS is if they don't stand up and take action against this issue, especially if those players just get a slap on the wrist after the banker/survey exploit.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS' leniency in with the banker exploit gave a lot of players the idea that they won't get punished with more than a slap on the wrist for openly exploiting and cheating. The popularity and rise of the this tool seemed to skyrocket after than incident, especially given the fact this tool is not something new. I think a lot of players feel they're under the assumption that if they get caught they'll just get a slap on the wrist while still getting to keep their ill-gotten gains.

CyrusArya

Looks like the "quick to cry exploit" scrubs will have more fervor now in accusing everyone who outplays them of being cheaters. You can already see them getting hyped up in this very thread. It just really sucks that this lamest of player mentalities is gonna be enabled from here on out. It opens the door for pretty much anyone's legitimacy to be brought into question, wether they are cheaters or not.

The true collateral damage of hackergate 2016 is gonna be the trust and confidence among the community, and by extension, the competitive spirit of the game. If that dies, so does the game as far as I'm concerned. Looks like ZOS will get their online RPG ropleplaying questers paradise after all.

Jules

Lisbette wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Everyone knows he wasn't permabanned for hacking OR exploiting. It was a silly reason and everyone remembers. Who are you trying to fool?

Jules really? You believe what he tells you, just go from there mmkay? Goodnight.

I've seen the emails.

manny254

Jules wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Lisbette wrote: »

This makes me sick, an EP kid who was already permabanned for hacking/exploiting and bought the game again did this to me 2 months ago. I should have reported him then.

-TAMERLIN

Everyone knows he wasn't permabanned for hacking OR exploiting. It was a silly reason and everyone remembers. Who are you trying to fool?

Jules really? You believe what he tells you, just go from there mmkay? Goodnight.

I've seen the emails.

Does what happened in the past even mater? Why are you defending someone who is known to have used the speed hack?

Arthg

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Naphariel wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

EP HAS NO HONOR.

It's not just EP! Just saw an AD doing it at allessia. We got it recorded.

All factions have players doing this.
Don't blame the players though, it's ZOS fault for ignoring the problem for so long.
This game needs an actual cheat protection implemented and a GM team that actually enforces the rules by banning those breaking them for longer than 24 hours.
Meanwhile, the current ZOS policy on cheating seems to be "lol just delete all forum posts and pretend nothing happened".

Don't blame the players!?!

So if a bank is robbed because someone figured a way to break in we shouldn't blame the robbers, right? After all the bank didn't protect the money....enough!

What incredibly stupid logic.

Someone that cheats is repugnant. Of course they ought to be blamed! And permanently band from the game. This was not some impulse action! This was thought out and required multiple steps to accomplish. It was without honor and these players are the stuff one needs to scrape of our shoes.

Whether ZOS needs to step up their protections or not is another topic. Yes they need to (and one hopes they are!).

But don't blame the players?!? Geeze!

Of COURSE blame the players! They are cheaters! How do you defend that! Its o.k. to cheat if you can? Only someone with some pretty distorted thinking, and pretty unethical ideas would even suggest that!?!

It is NOT o.k. to cheat. Period.

Of course, you're right.
Let me try to show you why I think you're also wrong, though.

After the black Tuesday crash in 1929 and before the end of the Prohibition, there developed a situation in the US which sociologist Robert Merton coined "anomie" (absence of laws in Greek): people still believed in the American dream, but the institutions failed to provide honest people with honest means to make that dream come true. This led to a rise in crime and murders. In other words, goals and means didn't fit. A symptom of that situation was the then-new glorification by Hollywood of gangster figures.

I believe what we're experiencing right now in the game is "anomie" : players still want to play ESO, and win, but there is no way you can be honest and win.

You have to feel for competitive players who spent time honing their PVP skills or trying to get on the vMSA, vMOL etc. leaderboards.
When honest players are forced to be dishonest to win, that's when you know the system is rotten to the core.
Also, some blatant cheaters may actually be whistle-blowers: it may be the only way they found to attract ZOS's attention to an endemic situation.

I for one blame it all on ZOS for letting that endemic situation develop. It's what happens when you fail to enforce clear rules and deter players from cheating. I'm convinced a lot of the most blatant cheaters just did it out of contempt for the game, contempt that was bred out of desperation after witnessing ZOS's repeated leniency and aloofness.

Rylana

Preyfar wrote: »

Francis_Toliver wrote: »

Whether ZOS needs to step up their protections or not is another topic. Yes they need to (and one hopes they are!).

But don't blame the players?!? Geeze!

t enabled players to cheat.

They enabled it by not securing their client like every other major MMO has since Ultima. Cheat engine isnt new by any stretch, its been around for close to 20 years. How a AAA MMO company left that door wide open is baffling to say the least, but that onus is definitely fully in ZOS's yard.

Preyfar

Rylana wrote: »

They enabled it by not securing their client like every other major MMO has since Ultima. Cheat engine isnt new by any stretch, its been around for close to 20 years. How a AAA MMO company left that door wide open is baffling to say the least, but that onus is definitely fully in ZOS's yard.

Having been on the UO support team, I can tell you that no... Ultima did not have things secured, not for the longest time. ExtremeUO was the bane of the game, and could auto target players, auto cast spells and do more damage than not -- and it existed that way for years. Trying to stop programs like EUO was a nightmare, and often times relied on GMs and the CRs to monitor, track and watch players for extended periods of time to determine the best course of action. Those on the EU shards may remember me as GM Saracen.

I was part of the EU team that watched over Europa and Drachs. These kinds of issues plague all games, but usually don't erupt into the all-out, full fledged exploiting parties we're seeing now. The last time I've seen something like this was an exploit in Planetside which allowed players using cheat programs to teleport other players into a corner of a map and instantly kill them, causing the entire server to shut down at times. I was fairly well known in the Planetside community, and helped run one of the largest outfits in the game for several years.

Having had experience working with this first hand, and assisting other MMO dev teams in tracking down problems in the past, I can assure you that these kinds of issues can and do crop up, but it's the actions of the ZOS team that will determine the outcome.

The players are 100% at fault for this. And it's ZOS' job to fix it.

Rylana

Preyfar wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

They enabled it by not securing their client like every other major MMO has since Ultima. Cheat engine isnt new by any stretch, its been around for close to 20 years. How a AAA MMO company left that door wide open is baffling to say the least, but that onus is definitely fully in ZOS's yard.

Having been on the UO support team, I can tell you that no... Ultima did not have things secured, not for the longest time. ExtremeUO was the bane of the game, and could auto target players, auto cast spells and do more damage than not -- and it existed that way for years. Trying to stop programs like EUO was a nightmare, and often times relied on GMs and the CRs to monitor, track and watch players for extended periods of time to determine the best course of action. Those on the EU shards may remember me as GM Saracen.

I was part of the EU team that watched over Europa and Drachs. These kinds of issues plague all games, but usually don't erupt into the all-out, full fledged exploiting parties we're seeing now. The last time I've seen something like this was an exploit in Planetside which allowed players using cheat programs to teleport other players into a corner of a map and instantly kill them, causing the entire server to shut down at times. I was fairly well known in the Planetside community, and helped run one of the largest outfits in the game for several years.

Having had experience working with this first hand, and assisting other MMO dev teams in tracking down problems in the past, I can assure you that these kinds of issues can and do crop up, but it's the reactions and the actions of the ZOS team that will determine the outcome.

Ultima was the first real MMO, I am sure it was exploited to hell and back, but being the pioneer, it taught developers what NOT to do, and what to watch out for. Nearly every game since has adopted anti-cheat methods. SWG was a good example of this, it was nearly impossible to cheat at that game, though there was one glaring leveling exploit involving client side dat files that was never caught, you couldnt inject or modify the client. That game came out over 10 years ago. WoW set the industry standard for bot and hack protection, TOR has protection, EQ, EQ2 have CE protection, Guild wars, DaoC, LotRO, just innumerable MMOs that all had or have significant market share... they cant be cheated as easily or even at all.

So how does a modern MMO launched in 2014 and developed during the time all of these major titles were running, not have the same protections in place?

That is where ZoS failed.

Preyfar

Rylana wrote: »

So how does a modern MMO launched in 2014 and developed during the time all of these major titles were running, not have the same protections in place?

That is where ZoS failed.

Given ZOS' response to the initial issues from the game's launch I think they've been fairly on point in trying to stop major issues like botting, gold sellers and other exploits. It's not perfect, but ZOS has been rather responsive in the past.

This situation, frankly, sucks. I don't even want to PVP because of this issue. I can't trust the people I'm fighting NOR the people I'm fighting with. It needs to be fixed, and fast.

Khamira

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

That's a shooting star and TWO Dawnbreakers off in the same death recap by the same caster . I might not be suspicious if it was one and one because DB does generate fast but two .... Hmmmm

You know, Dawnbreaker have a DoT, so I always thought - I died because of DoT. Meteor have a DoT too, Soul Tether sucks out your HP too, so I always thought - I need to be careful, I need to watch out, I'm a squishy squish and I has dieded very deathingly.

When I died of "one shots" - dude has mastered animation canceling, and server lag is laggy, and my ping is pingy, that's why I received 3 heavy attacks 2 surprise attacks and Executioner in one second while in the middle of a WW transformation. WTH, how they want to even balance this game if they have powerful long casting spam ability, that's powerful because, well, cast time, and you can just CANCEL cast time and even hit your target with something else. That's why people are not very suspicious when they get hit by 3 attacks in one second, because getting hit by two is totally normal...