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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 1, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
Shameful Metoer cheats from a top EP guild NA Trueflame
-
Jhunn✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's sad that top tier players will now have to live with the doubt. It's like pro cycling - everyone finishing top 10 in Tour de France is automatically accused of doping.
I do understand why Zazeer did this and in my opinion it was the only way to get ZOS' full attention, though the timing couldn't be any worse. But I don't expect ZOS to handle this good enough.Edited by Jhunn on May 30, 2016 6:00PMGave up.3 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.7 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.
I agree that I wouldn't have done it what he did, but I can definitely respect it. It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. In other words, the number crunchers at Zenimax have to decide whether the issue is worth fixing. If anything is going to convince them that it is worth fixing it is the current debacle.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Roehamad_Ali wrote: »At this point there's nothing left for me to do but ride out the storm and wait . Which is difficult because I get passionate about things I love and this game is one of them . I'm going to stay positive and only focus on the things I have control over . Right now the game masters are the only ones with the power to do anything , so I'm putting my positive thoughts out in their direction . I'll look out for updates and suggestions from them . All the best ZOS in tackling this once and for all .
This is what I am trying to do. I have been critical of ZOS in the past and many times today because I love this game and hate to see exploiting and cheating go the way it has here.
However I love the devs here and for all the games faults it's the only MMO in years to really capture me and keep be subbed for two years straight. Need to just find the fun and keep focused on that.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My guess is that if Zazeer and others didn't go full bore on showing the cheating that's possible and exposed this the "1vx community" would continue lying and saying bs like "animation cancelling skils" followed by the salt insults get gud and the latest and greatest "what exploit am I using?".
Many of us have always known you to be cheaters. It's obvious, we play the game and we know what is possible in it.
BANS and permanent bans are necessary or this game is over.
As for the cult of cheating that has been about trying to promote themselves on twitch, No one ever cared and everyone knows you didn't actually make scratch. Oh and you are a bunch of cheaters, and many of us already knew it.
The sad part of it is that still the strap hanger types that "worship" at the altar of false skill are still sadly and pathetically defending them.6 -
Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At least there will be plenty of PVE to keep me occupied in the next week or two if this isn't sorted.3 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Part of the issue I see here is the policy against "naming and shaming" and lack of communication on ZOS's part on dealing with these cheats.
Listen ZOS, most of us know cheats and exploits exist in any game like this, stopping the information about this isn't solving the issue, its simply making it so you have less reports of players that are bad and toxic in your game. You insulate these players so they work as poison inside your own game, finding more exploits, not reporting them, and talking *** to the community when they have a clear advantage. Its also what leads to a lot of folks never getting into PVP when they meet a guy using such a high amount of exploits its like trying to run up a cliff wall.
Now I'm not saying you have to mention names on folks that have been reported and were never found guilty, but those who are obviously guilty should be publicly know, especially if they are allowed to return. This builds in incentive for them not to hack or exploit again, but also gives players an indication if they should report someone that is acting mildly suspicious when they are being subtle in the use of their hacks. Keep in mind I'm not saying this for people that are accused of hacking/exploiting, but players that have been proven to be hacking/exploiting.
As for the hacks themselves, I've contacted you on this before, but you need to start exposing the community to what some of these hacks & exploits look like so they start reporting them. My offer still stands to take in someone with an anonymous name into the PTS and have them perform hacks on me (much the same way Zazeer did) but in a controlled testing environment. The purpose of it is so those of us that don't use these cheats understand the difference between legit skill and *** hacking/exploiting. What Zazeer did was over the top, so it got noticed, but there is still plenty of subtle exploits still going on that need to be exposed.
In closing, I'm sure you're working on everything you can to shut down these cheats, but please look at your own policies, they are only going to breed more harder to find cheats until we start being open with each other.7 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.
I agree that I wouldn't have done it what he did, but I can definitely respect it. It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. In other words, the number crunchers at Zenimax have to decide whether the issue is worth fixing. If anything is going to convince them that it is worth fixing it is the current debacle.
I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you ever posted.
Except this. I don't care how much he donates to charity or how nice he is to his mother, as far as gamers go, Zaz is trash and his actions this weekend deserve nothing but contempt. When the world is being invaded by aliens and the existence of humanity is at stake, then I'll be a little more receptive to ends and means or cost-benefit analysis.
For all the miserable lag and dubious balance we have had to endure for two years, at least for the most part there was integrity to this game, where on most days and nights the competition was deemed on the level. I knew some jerks used a speed hack, but for the most part, the people I fought died and didn't pop an ultimate always at the most convenient time ... and if they were using a cheat engine, whatever it was before this weekend, it still couldn't enable them toovercome their suckitude to beat someone such as myself who is too lazy to even put weapon enchants on my swords or bother spending the money to make my gear legendary.
Now that's gone. Everyone who is halfway decent at this game will always be suspect of cheating because of jerks like Zaz who for a combination of being pissed off at a game they no longer care about and misguided sense of self-martyrdom decided to give ESO and the community that plays it a big middle finger because they felt their message was neglected.Edited by Joy_Division on May 30, 2016 6:36PM16 -
thelordoffelines✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »My guess is that if Zazeer and others didn't go full bore on showing the cheating that's possible and exposed this the "1vx community" would continue lying and saying bs like "animation cancelling skils" followed by the salt insults get gud and the latest and greatest "what exploit am I using?".
Many of us have always known you to be cheaters. It's obvious, we play the game and we know what is possible in it.
BANS and permanent bans are necessary or this game is over.
As for the cult of cheating that has been about trying to promote themselves on twitch, No one ever cared and everyone knows you didn't actually make scratch. Oh and you are a bunch of cheaters, and many of us already knew it.
The sad part of it is that still the strap hanger types that "worship" at the altar of false skill are still sadly and pathetically defending them.
The sad part is posts like this will be valid because of this program. No one will be safe from cheating accusations now.5 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since the thread where Rylana accused me of allowing this to happen in my guild, i feel i need to defend myself. First off, I have never cheated nor condone the behavior. In fact I have expressed the condemnation of such actions openly. For the record, we are casual gamer's we have no desire to cheat. We are also for the most part all over 30, family type gamer's we have no desire to cheat we simply enjoy playing the game. For you to openly on the forums accuse me or my guild of this is insulting. If you suspect a member of my guild of doing this send me a tell or a mail and I will take the necessary actions to remove them from my guild. As far as everything else we loose constantly, we are wiped all the time by more experienced groups so for you to simply smudge my guild of this when one of your own openly admits it on the forums is simply unconscionable. Grow up and take your speculations elsewhere.8 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thelordoffelines wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »My guess is that if Zazeer and others didn't go full bore on showing the cheating that's possible and exposed this the "1vx community" would continue lying and saying bs like "animation cancelling skils" followed by the salt insults get gud and the latest and greatest "what exploit am I using?".
Many of us have always known you to be cheaters. It's obvious, we play the game and we know what is possible in it.
BANS and permanent bans are necessary or this game is over.
As for the cult of cheating that has been about trying to promote themselves on twitch, No one ever cared and everyone knows you didn't actually make scratch. Oh and you are a bunch of cheaters, and many of us already knew it.
The sad part of it is that still the strap hanger types that "worship" at the altar of false skill are still sadly and pathetically defending them.
The sad part is posts like this will be valid because of this program. No one will be safe from cheating accusations now.
Truth is, most people that don't cheat don't get accused of it.
I know who you are and I know you don't cheat. I know Rylana doesn't cheat.
It's always been painfully obvious who cheats. So obvious, it's amazing it lasted this long.
2 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since the thread where Rylana accused me of allowing this to happen in my guild, i feel i need to defend myself. First off, I have never cheated nor condone the behavior. In fact I have expressed the condemnation of such actions openly. For the record, we are casual gamer's we have no desire to cheat. We are also for the most part all over 30, family type gamer's we have no desire to cheat we simply enjoy playing the game. For you to openly on the forums accuse me or my guild of this is insulting. If you suspect a member of my guild of doing this send me a tell or a mail and I will take the necessary actions to remove them from my guild. As far as everything else we loose constantly, we are wiped all the time by more experienced groups so for you to simply smudge my guild of this when one of your own openly admits it on the forums is simply unconscionable. Grow up and take your speculations elsewhere.
Zaz was booted the moment we had the chance to convene the officers. We didnt defend his actions, we didnt deny what he had done, there is no damage control needed, we simply acted.
You however have no less than three people in your little squad abusing the hell out of this, and are being quite open about it. (the five soul harvests from the same nightblade death recap was hilarious) Whats good for the goose is good for the gander? No, I wont send you a tell, i simply gathered evidence and straight up reported them to ZoS.
I have protested your shenanigans regarding zerging and the like in the past, that fell on deaf ears. You cannot be worked with. Therefore I will skip the middleman and go straight to support until either they or you correct the problem.
This will continue as long as is necessary to stop the abuse of this 3rd party program. Have a wonderful day.Edited by Rylana on May 30, 2016 6:53PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin7 -
SirKool✭✭So the company is always this slow at finding a fix to cheaters? I know other games would have already taken servers down to apply hot fixes, seems this is something that should have been done already. Really starting to worry about this game! Also maybe tomorrows patch should be put off until fixed!"I know now what I was born to do."
―Martin Septim[src]1 -
Azurethe✭✭✭I think it's pretty sad that the thread that Zazeer tried to explain himself, and people were discussing his actions, and discussing how he and the game should have taken care of it. But ZOS instead labeled that thread a "Goodbye" thread and closed it mid discussion on a very important topic that is floating around
Why6 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Probably because ZOS don't give a damn about him now. He broke their trust and treated them like trash, why would they want to give him a platform to preach about how he did it "for the good of the people"?I think it's pretty sad that the thread that Zazeer tried to explain himself, and people were discussing his actions, and discussing how he and the game should have taken care of it. But ZOS instead labeled that thread a "Goodbye" thread and closed it mid discussion on a very important topic that is floating around
Why
Had he acted in a better way maybe they would have given him some respect and let his thread stay open a bit longer or even let the discussion continue.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."7 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So the company is always this slow at finding a fix to cheaters? I know other games would have already taken servers down to apply hot fixes, seems this is something that should have been done already. Really starting to worry about this game! Also maybe tomorrows patch should be put off until fixed!
It's not a problem that can be immediately fixed. A solution needs to be engineered. In the short term, ZOS may be able obfuscate values in memory, but that is a cat and mouse game that won't even slow down a cheater with strong technical skills -- which, in 2016, are common skills for IT professionals/enthusiasts.
Again, the problem isn't someone putting on a meteor show. That is only an annoyance. The problem is the potential that there are established members of our community who may have been subtly cheating for years. This has surely been the case. Unless ESO PVP is a game played only by saints.
ZOS needs to implement something like VAC.1 -
forzajuve212✭✭✭✭✭RoxyPhoenix wrote: »the cat is out of the bag, having said that makes me wonder how many ppl whom I previously respected and admired for their skills are actually dirty cheaters.
This.1 -
Lord-Stien✭✭✭I think it's pretty sad that the thread that Zazeer tried to explain himself, and people were discussing his actions, and discussing how he and the game should have taken care of it. But ZOS instead labeled that thread a "Goodbye" thread and closed it mid discussion on a very important topic that is floating around
Why
in essence.. his actions were a (goodbye) in a scene ...Sometimes the real enemy are the one who moderate it.
BannHammer
PVP Officer
Alliance Cord
When in doubt, frag out
Heart of Daggerfall-=Iron Legion=- Founding Member
The one and only LordSteindeath0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.
I agree that I wouldn't have done it what he did, but I can definitely respect it. It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. In other words, the number crunchers at Zenimax have to decide whether the issue is worth fixing. If anything is going to convince them that it is worth fixing it is the current debacle.
I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you ever posted.
Except this. I don't care how much he donates to charity or how nice he is to his mother, as far as gamers go, Zaz is trash and his actions this weekend deserve nothing but contempt. When the world is being invaded by aliens and the existence of humanity is at stake, then I'll be a little more receptive to ends and means or cost-benefit analysis.
For all the miserable lag and dubious balance we have had to endure for two years, at least for the most part there was integrity to this game, where on most days and nights the competition was deemed on the level. I knew some jerks used a speed hack, but for the most part, the people I fought died and didn't pop an ultimate always at the most convenient time ... and if they were using a cheat engine, whatever it was before this weekend, it still couldn't enable them toovercome their suckitude to beat someone such as myself who is too lazy to even put weapon enchants on my swords or bother spending the money to make my gear legendary.
Now that's gone. Everyone who is halfway decent at this game will always be suspect of cheating because of jerks like Zaz who for a combination of being pissed off at a game they no longer care about and misguided sense of self-martyrdom decided to give ESO and the community that plays it a big middle finger because they felt their message was neglected.
It's definitely a controversial issue. I see and understand both sides. My standpoint is that I am not content with relying on general ignorance of how to cheat as a mechanism to prevent cheating.
People are calling it a hack, but it isn't even really hacking. In a technical sense they are more like script kiddies. It's so easy to hack ESO that you don't even need to have any knowledge of encryption, programming, or networking. If application engineers were reverse engineering the client and then rebuilding it in order to hack I would be okay, but they are literally just downloading an application and following a few easy steps. There is no way to stop an equally determined and skilled hacker, but it shouldn't be easy. For a game this old I find that so unacceptable that I am giving Zaz a pass for bringing it into the light.Edited by timidobserver on May 30, 2016 7:27PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.
I agree that I wouldn't have done it what he did, but I can definitely respect it. It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. In other words, the number crunchers at Zenimax have to decide whether the issue is worth fixing. If anything is going to convince them that it is worth fixing it is the current debacle.
I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you ever posted.
Except this. I don't care how much he donates to charity or how nice he is to his mother, as far as gamers go, Zaz is trash and his actions this weekend deserve nothing but contempt. When the world is being invaded by aliens and the existence of humanity is at stake, then I'll be a little more receptive to ends and means or cost-benefit analysis.
For all the miserable lag and dubious balance we have had to endure for two years, at least for the most part there was integrity to this game, where on most days and nights the competition was deemed on the level. I knew some jerks used a speed hack, but for the most part, the people I fought died and didn't pop an ultimate always at the most convenient time ... and if they were using a cheat engine, whatever it was before this weekend, it still couldn't enable them toovercome their suckitude to beat someone such as myself who is too lazy to even put weapon enchants on my swords or bother spending the money to make my gear legendary.
Now that's gone. Everyone who is halfway decent at this game will always be suspect of cheating because of jerks like Zaz who for a combination of being pissed off at a game they no longer care about and misguided sense of self-martyrdom decided to give ESO and the community that plays it a big middle finger because they felt their message was neglected.
It's definitely a controversial issue. I see and understand both sides. My standpoint is that I am not content with relying on general ignorance of how to cheat as a mechanism to prevent cheating.
People are calling it a hack, but it isn't even really hacking. In a technical sense they are more like script kiddies. It's so easy to hack ESO that you don't even need to have any knowledge of encryption, programming, or networking. If application engineers were reverse engineering the client and then rebuilding it in order to hack I would be okay, but they are literally just downloading an application and following a few easy steps. There is no way to stop an equally determined and skilled hacker, but it shouldn't be easy. For a game this old I find that so unacceptable that I am giving Zaz a pass for bringing it into the light.
No message to call out ZOS' negligence is worth slamming a wedge in the pvp community. Ever.3 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
My biggest fear is that they will not fix this issue, or they won't fix it for a long time. Meanwhile we will be left with a witch hunt for anyone who has ever been successful. With the logic essentially being we lost, cheats exist, and therefore you are cheating. Anyone who has ever taken advantage of this program needs to be perma banned, but a witch hunt will only divide the already dying pvp community. This needs to be fixed now, and I really can't believe they have no way of detecting it.
Exactly this, I dont even want to play right now. It's like a double edge sword, we win a fight and get accused of cheating, lose a fight and have no idea if we got out played or they were cheating. Not worth.
See you all in CU.2 -
Mako1132✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking#latest
After reading this thread from Zazeer, I have to say that I agree with him. To the point that I think he should be unbanned and any gkicks rescinded. Given a choice between a dude running around spamming ultimates and a bunch of L2P screaming batmans running around being subtly faster, with subtly better stats, with subtly better resource sustain, with subtly better animation cancelling, and taking sutbly less damage, I am going to go with the dude spamming ultimates. It demonstrates the problem and gives the issue enough exposure that ignoring it is not a valid response.
Since everybody has been choosing the blue pill on this, Zaz decided to force feed everybody the red pill.
Absolutely not. Solid video proof on Live in the middle of some field with just a friend to demonstrate on would have sufficed and generated enough of a frenzy that ZOS would have been forced to react. There was ZERO need to explain to people how it's done and ZERO need to help point them in the direction of what program to use. He did that out of ego and a need for attention. If this is something that ZOS can't fix right away (and probably isn't given how old it is) now we have to deal with all the yahoos trying it out.
Just because he fancies himself an Anonymous or snowden does NOT mean he was in any way right in how he went about this. He chose the scorched earth tactic and deserves no praise, nor access to account ever again.
If it were just some exploitable bug in a skill I would agree because it doesn't take a lot of resources to fix a skill. However, as I understand it, fixing this issue could be costly, which is why it hasn't been fixed despite all of the evidence that has purportedly been given to ZOS in the past. For that reason, a major incident needed to occur for it be given more priority. Now, assuming that they don't have to rebuild the entire game to fix it, it will probably be fixed sooner than later.
Almost everyone in here has railed on ZOS for their policy regarding exploits and snail-paced fixes, including myself. I'm just as frustrated, more in fact, because I NEVER would have invited that sorc to my guild, nor would I have stood for it if for some reason bulb lost his mind and sent an invite - so I'm of the line of thinking that Zaz was already more lax on exploits than others. With that said, if I, and pretty much every pvp'er I know of would have been in Zaz's position none of us would have taken his scorched earth route. That's on him, he deserves no praise, no defense, no nothing.
The 'major incident' could have been one video on the forums and generated the necessary oomph to force ZOS to react without giving every random an instruction guide to the exploit so that pvp is ruined while we wait for a fix. If ZOS continued to drag their feet and nothing was done, THEN you can try upping the ante, you don't opt for nuclear winter as your first option. Again, this was the first concrete video evidence posted, and that's all it would have taken to get the player-base behind it.
I agree that I wouldn't have done it what he did, but I can definitely respect it. It all comes down to cost benefit analysis. In other words, the number crunchers at Zenimax have to decide whether the issue is worth fixing. If anything is going to convince them that it is worth fixing it is the current debacle.
I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you ever posted.
Except this. I don't care how much he donates to charity or how nice he is to his mother, as far as gamers go, Zaz is trash and his actions this weekend deserve nothing but contempt. When the world is being invaded by aliens and the existence of humanity is at stake, then I'll be a little more receptive to ends and means or cost-benefit analysis.
For all the miserable lag and dubious balance we have had to endure for two years, at least for the most part there was integrity to this game, where on most days and nights the competition was deemed on the level. I knew some jerks used a speed hack, but for the most part, the people I fought died and didn't pop an ultimate always at the most convenient time ... and if they were using a cheat engine, whatever it was before this weekend, it still couldn't enable them toovercome their suckitude to beat someone such as myself who is too lazy to even put weapon enchants on my swords or bother spending the money to make my gear legendary.
Now that's gone. Everyone who is halfway decent at this game will always be suspect of cheating because of jerks like Zaz who for a combination of being pissed off at a game they no longer care about and misguided sense of self-martyrdom decided to give ESO and the community that plays it a big middle finger because they felt their message was neglected.
Perfectly said Joy.1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think it's pretty sad that the thread that Zazeer tried to explain himself, and people were discussing his actions, and discussing how he and the game should have taken care of it. But ZOS instead labeled that thread a "Goodbye" thread and closed it mid discussion on a very important topic that is floating around
Why
I gave that moderator a awesome . Goodbye threads aren't permitted .... lol I love a witty moderator . 10/102 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except this. I don't care how much he donates to charity or how nice he is to his mother, as far as gamers go, Zaz is trash and his actions this weekend deserve nothing but contempt. When the world is being invaded by aliens and the existence of humanity is at stake, then I'll be a little more receptive to ends and means or cost-benefit analysis.
For all the miserable lag and dubious balance we have had to endure for two years, at least for the most part there was integrity to this game, where on most days and nights the competition was deemed on the level. I knew some jerks used a speed hack, but for the most part, the people I fought died and didn't pop an ultimate always at the most convenient time ... and if they were using a cheat engine, whatever it was before this weekend, it still couldn't enable them toovercome their suckitude to beat someone such as myself who is too lazy to even put weapon enchants on my swords or bother spending the money to make my gear legendary.
I disagree. There was only an illusion of integrity because it wasn't trivial for any idiot to cheat in this way. I prefer my eyes to be wide open. My experience tells me that there were surely many others cheating only subtly to achieve fame.
Previously, there had been plenty of video evidence of the existence of active memory hacking that the larger community ignored. Now it can't. Now everyone knows and ZOS is, at least at the moment, facing true pressure.
I do not agree with Zazeer's methods. I don't think he and his friends are heroes. I definitely don't think anyone should be unbanned. But I am glad this has all come out.2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think it's pretty sad that the thread that Zazeer tried to explain himself, and people were discussing his actions, and discussing how he and the game should have taken care of it. But ZOS instead labeled that thread a "Goodbye" thread and closed it mid discussion on a very important topic that is floating around
Why
Because rather than fix the problem ZOS is going to temp ban a couple of cheaters and then try to sweep the entire fiaco under the rug.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since the thread where Rylana accused me of allowing this to happen in my guild, i feel i need to defend myself. First off, I have never cheated nor condone the behavior. In fact I have expressed the condemnation of such actions openly. For the record, we are casual gamer's we have no desire to cheat. We are also for the most part all over 30, family type gamer's we have no desire to cheat we simply enjoy playing the game. For you to openly on the forums accuse me or my guild of this is insulting. If you suspect a member of my guild of doing this send me a tell or a mail and I will take the necessary actions to remove them from my guild. As far as everything else we loose constantly, we are wiped all the time by more experienced groups so for you to simply smudge my guild of this when one of your own openly admits it on the forums is simply unconscionable. Grow up and take your speculations elsewhere.
Zaz was booted the moment we had the chance to convene the officers. We didnt defend his actions, we didnt deny what he had done, there is no damage control needed, we simply acted.
You however have no less than three people in your little squad abusing the hell out of this, and are being quite open about it. (the five soul harvests from the same nightblade death recap was hilarious) Whats good for the goose is good for the gander? No, I wont send you a tell, i simply gathered evidence and straight up reported them to ZoS.
I have protested your shenanigans regarding zerging and the like in the past, that fell on deaf ears. You cannot be worked with. Therefore I will skip the middleman and go straight to support until either they or you correct the problem.
This will continue as long as is necessary to stop the abuse of this 3rd party program. Have a wonderful day.
Feel free to do so. Your nothing more than a propaganda machine spewing sewage. I have a couple nightblades that runs with us in group one of them is over 50 and wouldn't know the first thing about cheats the other i know personally and absolutely does not use cheats. You are so full of crap its funny. As far as me zerging. Oh yes i zerg with 16 man groups and control all of AD to come to my aide every second of every day that i am playing. You are laughable. Lets guess what your next attack will center on. Maybe it will be some insult that i have never had EMP.....please get a something new to say about me because nothing you have tried in the last 2 years has ever been even a half truth.2
This discussion has been closed.