Who actually wants those poisons?

vortexman11

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Maybe this is why polls were disabled here? Because ZOS knew we'd disagree with every change they make...

Khaos_Bane

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

No they make a lot of very good changes to the game. This game is FAR better than what it was. But they also make very puzzling changes as well. Like nerfing class skills for PvP then making these incredibly powerful poisons. It's just a WTF were they thinking moment.

ToRelax

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

STEVIL wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KingShocker wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's pretty safe to say that if you don't like running in a big group of pugs or a lag inducing train of proxdet spamming purgebots, ESO's PvP wants you gone.

Haven´t you heared - if you´re outnumbered you´re going to die anyway. So why not implement a mechanic that makes sure the struggle won´t last too long and you get a nice and fast respawn

Agree
So when the campaign is outnumbered 10:1
What is the point of even showing up..let alone fighting ?
By ZOS interpretation of outnumbered people must die.....there is no point.

Personally I like to feel I am makin gmore of a contribution than being a source of guaranteed AP for the largest population.

I wish I could click on "agree" and "awesome" for this.

Already some of the main campaigns are so dominated by one faction that the others just give up. Why keep fighting when the enemy outnumbers you significantly, and has emp buff, and has scroll buffs... and has so many poisons that you melt when their zerg looks at you?

So, to see if i get this straight, BEFORE poisons it is already the case that others give up due to one faction dominance and outnumbering no chsnce etc... but POISONS will let zergs melt you?

What is the diff between the death of a thousand jesus beams and poisons?

Really, the new more powerful more frequent enchantments seem the better choice for way outnumbered meltdown. Why use expendables for over time effects when its a squash?

Maybe it has to do with the ones who still fight ounumbered, and now get another huge disadvantage... I know it must be hard to believe for you, but not everyone dies as soon as he is being attacked by a half dozen players at once. At least so far.

Nice little graph but has ZERO to do with my comments you quot.

If as the poster said its already pre-poisons one side dominant buffed numbered etc crushing with emp buff blah blah so that they "just give up" how do poisons become the new boogeyman end of days cats and dogs sleeping together scapegoat?

Like i said, when outnumbering and looking for a squash down, the long cooldown overtime poisons arent the best option. The new 3-4x enchants arent expended and have much faster cooldown. The poisons will serve more for longer fights.

For outnumbered scenarios ANY offensive buff everyone can use or defensive nerf shifts the odds to the group.

Adjusting the balance place for one-v-many isnt going to be achieved by ostriching any and every new thing but by actual direct rules change deliberatelt adjusting for one-v-many. For instance "if damage from 3 or more hits within 10 seconds all damage is reduced by 90% for 60 seconds" wpuld pretty much stop gangs from quickly burning down solo or pairs.

It would let solo or pairs of experienced elite players in superior gear lay into groups of weaker players with impunity, as god intended. New pvp players would learn grouping for safety did not work out as well and since they know they wont beat the elite-w-gesr 2-on-2 they would likely stay awsy more often leaving pvp the dueling ground of the elite with less roafkill essy picking slow meat.

Get the rules to favor your preferred outcome directly and then you dont have to be afraid everytime something new is added.

Actually my post fits perfectly well because I specifically spoke about the players who still do fight outnumbered - not the ones who give up.

As for balancing the game to favor the smaller group, that is just as stupid as favoring the larger one. Mechanics designed to help the smaller group should at best scale proportional with the number of enemies.

Xsorus

From what I understand, the more poisons applied to the target, basically the weaker they come. Meaning in a 1v1 if a person is using the stamina cost increase one it'll last for say 5 seconds (if its the only poison), however if multiple people are applying poisons to the target it decreases the duration (down to for example..0.5 seconds). It seems to have a built it disadvantage for multiple people hitting one target.

At least if that's the way i understand it working.

STEVIL

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

ToRelax wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KingShocker wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's pretty safe to say that if you don't like running in a big group of pugs or a lag inducing train of proxdet spamming purgebots, ESO's PvP wants you gone.

Haven´t you heared - if you´re outnumbered you´re going to die anyway. So why not implement a mechanic that makes sure the struggle won´t last too long and you get a nice and fast respawn

Agree
So when the campaign is outnumbered 10:1
What is the point of even showing up..let alone fighting ?
By ZOS interpretation of outnumbered people must die.....there is no point.

Personally I like to feel I am makin gmore of a contribution than being a source of guaranteed AP for the largest population.

I wish I could click on "agree" and "awesome" for this.

Already some of the main campaigns are so dominated by one faction that the others just give up. Why keep fighting when the enemy outnumbers you significantly, and has emp buff, and has scroll buffs... and has so many poisons that you melt when their zerg looks at you?

So, to see if i get this straight, BEFORE poisons it is already the case that others give up due to one faction dominance and outnumbering no chsnce etc... but POISONS will let zergs melt you?

What is the diff between the death of a thousand jesus beams and poisons?

Really, the new more powerful more frequent enchantments seem the better choice for way outnumbered meltdown. Why use expendables for over time effects when its a squash?

Maybe it has to do with the ones who still fight ounumbered, and now get another huge disadvantage... I know it must be hard to believe for you, but not everyone dies as soon as he is being attacked by a half dozen players at once. At least so far.

Nice little graph but has ZERO to do with my comments you quot.

If as the poster said its already pre-poisons one side dominant buffed numbered etc crushing with emp buff blah blah so that they "just give up" how do poisons become the new boogeyman end of days cats and dogs sleeping together scapegoat?

Like i said, when outnumbering and looking for a squash down, the long cooldown overtime poisons arent the best option. The new 3-4x enchants arent expended and have much faster cooldown. The poisons will serve more for longer fights.

For outnumbered scenarios ANY offensive buff everyone can use or defensive nerf shifts the odds to the group.

Adjusting the balance place for one-v-many isnt going to be achieved by ostriching any and every new thing but by actual direct rules change deliberatelt adjusting for one-v-many. For instance "if damage from 3 or more hits within 10 seconds all damage is reduced by 90% for 60 seconds" wpuld pretty much stop gangs from quickly burning down solo or pairs.

It would let solo or pairs of experienced elite players in superior gear lay into groups of weaker players with impunity, as god intended. New pvp players would learn grouping for safety did not work out as well and since they know they wont beat the elite-w-gesr 2-on-2 they would likely stay awsy more often leaving pvp the dueling ground of the elite with less roafkill essy picking slow meat.

Get the rules to favor your preferred outcome directly and then you dont have to be afraid everytime something new is added.

Actually my post fits perfectly well because I specifically spoke about the players who still do fight outnumbered - not the ones who give up.

As for balancing the game to favor the smaller group, that is just as stupid as favoring the larger one. Mechanics designed to help the smaller group should at best scale proportional with the number of enemies.

Ahh so there you go. We can agree. My off hand exsmple scsled defenses based on enemies, measured by sources of damage.

I have suggested in the past having the trigger point be variable by area.
Around a keep make it large so you can get major assaults. In open patrol, maybe 4 to promote skirmishes. For "city interior" maybe 1 for duels. For big events, change it to suit likevan invasion weekend.

Allows many different options without ever chg terrifying either thevsmall scalw player elite or the safety in numbers newbies or all the others of whatever ilk.

For every 501 "i wanna be able to hose over crowds of victims" there are a dozen 100s "maybe ifvthere are enough we can survive long enough" and while i see plenty or the "donr make it hardet for me to crush larger groups" there really dont seem to be as many of the casual 100s as active here, which makes sense.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

No they make a lot of very good changes to the game. This game is FAR better than what it was. But they also make very puzzling changes as well. Like nerfing class skills for PvP then making these incredibly powerful poisons. It's just a WTF were they thinking moment.

Most of the class skill nerfs were predicted a long time ago as collateral damage from the champion system. When you remove softcaps and let people have infinite resources and 25% more damage, the controls have to go somewhere.

If you refuse to control the inputs (resources, regen, damage, and other stats), then you have to control the outputs (how often you can use a skill, how powerful the skill is, etc). This is why you keep seeing nerfs, and tiny cooldowns creep into the game. This game was originally designed with NO cooldowns and you could use skills as much as you wanted as long as you had the resources. That was the genius of the combat system. An MMO without cooldowns. Only possible if you limit and strictly control resources, if you don't, then you get vast skill unbalance and the need to continually nerf skills and gear over and over again till nothing is as fun as it was designed to be.

Khaos_Bane

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

No they make a lot of very good changes to the game. This game is FAR better than what it was. But they also make very puzzling changes as well. Like nerfing class skills for PvP then making these incredibly powerful poisons. It's just a WTF were they thinking moment.

Most of the class skill nerfs were predicted a long time ago as collateral damage from the champion system. When you remove softcaps and let people have infinite resources and 25% more damage, the controls have to go somewhere.

If you refuse to control the inputs (resources, regen, damage, and other stats), then you have to control the outputs (how often you can use a skill, how powerful the skill is, etc). This is why you keep seeing nerfs, and tiny cooldowns creep into the game. This game was originally designed with NO cooldowns and you could use skills as much as you wanted as long as you had the resources. That was the genius of the combat system. An MMO without cooldowns. Only possible if you limit and strictly control resources, if you don't, then you get vast skill unbalance and the need to continually nerf skills and gear over and over again till nothing is as fun as it was designed to be.

Or offer champion points that offset the damage, which they do. Right now people are primarily picking CP passives that improve their DPS. Once the cap is raised, people will be picking up more defensive passives which will offset the damage to a greater degree. So I see things fluctuating as they adjust CP max.

I PVE this is having a huge impact, as we simply roll thru content.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

No they make a lot of very good changes to the game. This game is FAR better than what it was. But they also make very puzzling changes as well. Like nerfing class skills for PvP then making these incredibly powerful poisons. It's just a WTF were they thinking moment.

Most of the class skill nerfs were predicted a long time ago as collateral damage from the champion system. When you remove softcaps and let people have infinite resources and 25% more damage, the controls have to go somewhere.

If you refuse to control the inputs (resources, regen, damage, and other stats), then you have to control the outputs (how often you can use a skill, how powerful the skill is, etc). This is why you keep seeing nerfs, and tiny cooldowns creep into the game. This game was originally designed with NO cooldowns and you could use skills as much as you wanted as long as you had the resources. That was the genius of the combat system. An MMO without cooldowns. Only possible if you limit and strictly control resources, if you don't, then you get vast skill unbalance and the need to continually nerf skills and gear over and over again till nothing is as fun as it was designed to be.

Or offer champion points that offset the damage, which they do. Right now people are primarily picking CP passives that improve their DPS. Once the cap is raised, people will be picking up more defensive passives which will offset the damage to a greater degree. So I see things fluctuating as they adjust CP max.

I PVE this is having a huge impact, as we simply roll thru content.

So they keep having to buff the mobs to compensate, or develop cheap one-shot boss mechanics or DPS tests. Welcome to the power creep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

This is why I didn't want a meaningless vertical progression system added to this game in the first place. At least spellcrafting looked like it would offer some much needed horizontal progression.

But there is another word for horizontal progression, its called content. And that's why we have a vertical progression treadmill grindfest instead.

ajwest927

What's more troubling is some of these poison share the same name with each other just like the same problem with potions, that just laziness on their part, it not that hard to come up with name for each different poison/potion

NewBlacksmurf

Interesting as I wasn't impressed but I assumed those who PvP would be really excited. Guess it's just another feature not done well

Suggestions:
-PvE should literally have poisons that have both a visual, damage, and life impact by weapon type.
So let's say I'm using a staff, well I'm not hitting anyone so the staff shouldn't have poison, but it should have rune slots (cause ya k ow, the runes actually do stuff other than create enchants).

Swords should have a life and stamina reduction while staffs should impact life and magica.
Hammers and maces should impact stuns, life and NPC attack and movement speeds substantially.
Bows should hit but within 2-5 secs, life drain should just be massive.

Visual affects are needed bad becaus it needs to be obvious

Or ya know.....just do away with most cause basically for poisons to work, you need to have spell crafting to work hand in hand.

Suru

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Well thats an overwhelming majority lol

ginoboehm

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Suru wrote: »

Well thats an overwhelming majority lol

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_KaiSchober so what we gonna do ignore 80% of pts testers or for once actually follow the path of reason and build a game for the actual customers? this system is only for pvp players and we tell you with an incredible majority that it will make pvp horrible and not enjoyable for us will you still let it go live?

TipsyDrow

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

After watching the last ESO live and seeing the pure amount of glee the dev in charge of creating this fiasco called poison making has for his creation, it is evident this is more about him creating this for HIM and much much less about an added feature that will enhance the game. I believe the ZOS devs has forgotten a few basic rules of game design.
1-Don't confuse interesting with fun.
2-Don't design something simply to prove you can do it.
3-Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win.
Like many changes over the past year or so this added *feature* will have more of a negative impact on the game then a positive one.

dsalter

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

TipsyDrow wrote: »

After watching the last ESO live and seeing the pure amount of glee the dev in charge of creating this fiasco called poison making has for his creation, it is evident this is more about him creating this for HIM and much much less about an added feature that will enhance the game. I believe the ZOS devs has forgotten a few basic rules of game design.
1-Don't confuse interesting with fun.
2-Don't design something simply to prove you can do it.
3-Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win.
Like many changes over the past year or so this added *feature* will have more of a negative impact on the game then a positive one.

take it you saw the 17k insta-gib poison gankers?

Septimus_Magna

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Poison (like enchantments) should offer a small but noticeable bonus.

The current poisons are way too strong, everyone on PTS said so and it still got buffed by 100%.

I dont know what ZOS wants to achieve with these poisons but it will most likely be a disaster (no surprise really).

Kas

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

the worse numbers' problems become, the faster they may actually implement arena-style matchmaking. don't care if 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or whatever. I'd sell my soul for it. leaderboards and matchmaking to prevent frustration/boredom would be great as well. just copy from moba games' systems (only know Dota2 but imho the rules of matchmaking and mmr would translate nicely). keep rewards low/minimal s.th. the masses (of immersion-loving, new/casual, below-160CP-players that actually exist, according to ZOS) can and will still enjoy their 8fps """""epic battles"""""

RocDonald

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

They already sort of have enchantments that do damage/absorb magicka, stamina or health. However, at least I won't care when people ask for nerfs lol.

klink012

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

No they make a lot of very good changes to the game. This game is FAR better than what it was. But they also make very puzzling changes as well. Like nerfing class skills for PvP then making these incredibly powerful poisons. It's just a WTF were they thinking moment.

Most of the class skill nerfs were predicted a long time ago as collateral damage from the champion system. When you remove softcaps and let people have infinite resources and 25% more damage, the controls have to go somewhere.

If you refuse to control the inputs (resources, regen, damage, and other stats), then you have to control the outputs (how often you can use a skill, how powerful the skill is, etc). This is why you keep seeing nerfs, and tiny cooldowns creep into the game. This game was originally designed with NO cooldowns and you could use skills as much as you wanted as long as you had the resources. That was the genius of the combat system. An MMO without cooldowns. Only possible if you limit and strictly control resources, if you don't, then you get vast skill unbalance and the need to continually nerf skills and gear over and over again till nothing is as fun as it was designed to be.

Exactly. As soon as softcaps went away and the CP system was introduced the game went downhill. CP should have never been implemented. An alternative advancement system like specializing your class would have been awesome. Pick 1 of 3-4 skill trees to go down to make your character a unique dragonknight, sorc, temp, NB. NOT grind for .1% more dmg....

tennant94

tennant94

No. I don't want to farm for poisons it's already a tedious task farming pots. If only there was a more convenient way to get them. Like for a small fee of 300 crowns maybe. Gg zos.

PainfulFAFA

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

They cant take away poisons otherwise whats the point of DB? A DLC with just fixes but no content?

nimander99

I think poisons are a good idea... But we'll see what the actual impact is on live.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

nimander99 wrote: »

I think poisons are a good idea... But we'll see what the actual impact is on live.

If only we had a way to TEST what their impact would be on live. Some sort of "test server." I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:

Maybe people who really care about this game would be willing to download another whole copy of the game and test certain features for fun and balance BEFORE they make it to live.

Then those players could report their findings on some sort of "test server forum" and if the response came back overwhelming negative, like say for example, 200 individual people comprising 80% of those that responded saying they would rather have NO POISONS than broken poisons, then perhaps ZOS could send the concept back to the drawing board and not push a broken exploitable system to live.

Sounds like a good idea doesn't it? If only.

dsalter

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I think poisons are a good idea... But we'll see what the actual impact is on live.

If only we had a way to TEST what their impact would be on live. Some sort of "test server." I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:

Maybe people who really care about this game would be willing to download another whole copy of the game and test certain features for fun and balance BEFORE they make it to live.

Then those players could report their findings on some sort of "test server forum" and if the response came back overwhelming negative, like say for example, 200 individual people compromising 80% of those that responded saying they would rather have NO POISONS then broken poisons, then perhaps ZOS could send the concept back to the drawing board and not push a broken exploitable system to live.

Sounds like a good idea doesn't it? If only.

shame no such thing exists

Pigment

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Suppresses your weapon enchantments??? No thanks!

Paraflex

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

It's about time they introduce an item in the game to reduces peoples resource management. Champ Points ruin resource management. I don't want to play a game with infinite ammo.

ToRelax

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Paraflex wrote: »

It's about time they introduce an item in the game to reduces peoples resource management. Champ Points ruin resource management. I don't want to play a game with infinite ammo.

Sadly these poisons miss half the purpose of resource management - they may shorten fights, but in favor of numbers, not skill.

XaXa

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

dsalter wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I think poisons are a good idea... But we'll see what the actual impact is on live.

If only we had a way to TEST what their impact would be on live. Some sort of "test server." I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:

Maybe people who really care about this game would be willing to download another whole copy of the game and test certain features for fun and balance BEFORE they make it to live.

Then those players could report their findings on some sort of "test server forum" and if the response came back overwhelming negative, like say for example, 200 individual people compromising 80% of those that responded saying they would rather have NO POISONS then broken poisons, then perhaps ZOS could send the concept back to the drawing board and not push a broken exploitable system to live.

Sounds like a good idea doesn't it? If only.

shame no such thing exists

Trolol. Also been meaning to say that you have the best name.

Lucky28

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

say goodbye to small scale/solo PvP if these poisons go into the game.

it's already hard to take on larger numbers then your own, these poisons make it impossible particularly since you can stack what, 20 different poisons on one person?

Zenetrax

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

No, just no.