Who actually wants those poisons?

karakondzula

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

*** BALANCE, NEED A WAY TO SOMEHOW SELL MAHHH TINY DLC!!!

Sigma957

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

Well I think its good, might actually make people think about what gear to run in pvp and not just about all damage. Will need gear that ramps up your regen or run purge on one of your bars to get rid of it. Even better run your own poison back at your attacker. Might actually make snakeblood skill in alchemist be useful.

Turelus

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

Communities complain managing resources isn't required in PvP any more. Community complains ZOS add something which makes resources important again.

Sunburnt_Penguin

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Turelus wrote: »

Communities complain managing resources isn't required in PvP any more. Community complains ZOS add something which makes resources important again.

Lol whoever thinks managing resources isn't required anymore obviously needs to up their damage.

NativeJoe

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

I don't want poisons and here is why: IT does not help me kill a zerg as a solo player. If the developers where a tad bit more creative they could make it to where I WANTED these poisons such as making a really cheap recipe Spread an infectious poison (maybe a poison cloud from the infected once on hit and every 2 seconds following that) that debuffs resistances and heals.

But this is a tool to make 1vsX even harder then every before. it is very effectively our style of game plays PROXY.

This move makes no sense across the board. I understand the developer for the poisons is a Nightblade. I get it... you want lots of interesting options and have multiple weapons to capitalize on it with. But the poisons could have been better thought out. as it is zergs are going to slot purge... so it's not a problem there. There isn't room on many niche builds/meta builds for this... But you guys literally made it so we could get hit with individually EVERY poison... as if you wanted small scale pvpers to die faster. I just don't get it. You want people in 6 man groups and most, publicly ask us not to Zerg vs zerg vs zerg for performance sake, and then you smash the whole train of thought by introducing a system that literally encourages us to get in bigger groups for safety(and for the decent chance we won't have to slot a purge ourselves)

Brrrofski

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Pvp will suck. I play solo, in small groups of 6ish or in later groups, on a campaign where DC are barely in. Either way, I always play outnumbered. So this is going to be horrible for me. Bigger groups get even more of an advatage then they already did.

ToRelax

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Armitas wrote: »

What if...rather than starting at 60% and moving down if it's too much....we....you know....start at 30% and move up if it's too little.

But... that would mean we'd have to stick with it for a half year because no balance changes in incremental patches.

vortexman11

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What ever poisons become FOTM will be mandatory to run in PvP to stay competitive.

Larger groups will be able to lock down smaller ones even more by spamming poisons on one person. I'm surprised everyone that likes 1vX (that still plays this game) isn't speaking more about this. Inb4 1vX is dead or 1vX is fine.

I don't see poisons adding a positive element in PvP gameplay or increasing the skill ceiling. I see everyone collectively deciding what poison is best and then you have to run that because everyone else is running it.

The people that ruin the economy by speculating and price manipulation are going to have a field day with this.

When you're faced with a dev that basically says "Well you're going to die anyways, so it doesn't matter if poisons stack on one person" it kind of gets rid of all motivation to comment on it.

SleepyTroll

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

You can't have the golden goose! Only purge. Level purge on all your pvp guys who aren't templar and morph it to the cheap one. but good luck in 1vX next patch lol

Silver_Strider

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

PvEers will have to consider a few things when it comes to poisons. Are they willing (and able) to keep up the high maintenance cost of poisons over enchantment. With enchantments, it's 1 and done. You charge them with the plethora of Soul gems that litter every nook and cranny of ESO and never have to think twice about them. With poisons, you run out of charges, you need to recraft/buy the poison again. Ingredients aren't cheap and not everyone is willing to gather and craft the poisons themselves so the cost of poison will be much higher on a poison user for PvE content. Then, there's the end game PvEer with Maelstrom weapons. These players will NEVER touch poisons as it would suppress the enchantment on the Maelstrom Weapons and that's too large a DPS loss to even consider using them for any practical reason. Maybe on their crafted or set item weapons they'll poison them but even then it comes down to the numbers(i.e. do poison give me more damage then enchantments?)

My main concern with poisons though is in PvP. PvP is about burst, sustain and (sometimes) numbers. Poisons pretty much throw this out the wind and makes it all about the numbers. A large group of people with poisons will easily overtake a smaller group because poisons from different players are constantly being reapplied on them and it's only a matter of time before small group PvP dies off entirely as a result. It just doesn't look good for solo or small group PvPers at all.

I want poisons in the game but not these poisons. I wanted poisons that carefully countered potions in their effects; not so much that it would flat out negate potions but to an extent that it would severely limit potions in their effectiveness. These poisons are just flat out poorly executed and grossly OP IMO.

xarguideb17_ESO

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Poisons are as strong as ultimates now. Seems nuts.

Derra

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Insightful poll.

But ZOS does not care what their usebase wants - just look at aoe caps.
We´ll get awesome itemsets that deminish the effectiveness of poisons instead of actually balancing the whole mechanic. THAT`S WHAT MAKES GEARING FUN EH MR.W?

ginoboehm

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Turelus wrote: »

Communities complain managing resources isn't required in PvP any more. Community complains ZOS add something which makes resources important again.

You don't understand our problem with that. You fight in a small group (let us say 4-5 people) a bigger group of 15+ people. No way to keep poisons on every one of them they will have no problem keeping poisons on your group and they easily purge the ones you actually place on them because they can afford to run one purge bot. So the cost increase is only for the smaller group who is already resource strained (and rightfulyl so) since they have to fight each multible enemies. On a normal night now the bigger group(if they are even a bit organized) will win although sometimes you can place the right burst you make the right move avoid their attacks and can actually beat them. I play this game for these moments. @Wroebel hates it because he wants a cyrodil where however bad you are you aren't outplayed badly and can make it up with just stacking up. i want a cyrodil where mistakes and skill differences are punished hard and numbers give no savety.

Armitas

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

I always thought there should be poisons in the game but never could I imagine they would be this strong and outrageous. I was thinking you just pour it on your weapon and it last for 30min and does 300damage a second, or reduces the potency of the potions they drink, or slows them, or diseases them for 10%.

STEVIL

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

I want them.

Derra

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

STEVIL wrote: »

I want them.

Beginning to severely doubt that skooma free when looking at the contributions to sorcerer and now poison discussions

SwaminoNowlino

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Sigma957 wrote: »

Well I think its good, might actually make people think about what gear to run in pvp and not just about all damage. Will need gear that ramps up your regen or run purge on one of your bars to get rid of it. Even better run your own poison back at your attacker. Might actually make snakeblood skill in alchemist be useful.

Nope, snakeblood will not mitigate the impact of poisons at all. Always has been and will continue to be useless. On ESO Live, they stated that they didn't want everyone to have access to a counter measure.

Lava_Croft

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

Another layer of cruft to try and cover up fundamental problems with the code. Software development in 2016.

DocFrost72

vortexman11 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What ever poisons become FOTM will be mandatory to run in PvP to stay competitive.

Larger groups will be able to lock down smaller ones even more by spamming poisons on one person. I'm surprised everyone that likes 1vX (that still plays this game) isn't speaking more about this. Inb4 1vX is dead or 1vX is fine.

I don't see poisons adding a positive element in PvP gameplay or increasing the skill ceiling. I see everyone collectively deciding what poison is best and then you have to run that because everyone else is running it.

The people that ruin the economy by speculating and price manipulation are going to have a field day with this.

When you're faced with a dev that basically says "Well you're going to die anyways, so it doesn't matter if poisons stack on one person" it kind of gets rid of all motivation to comment on it.

Mostly because they are right.

Kas

Yes. I want those poisons and they are good for PvP.

i want them, mainly because i really need new stuff to keep me hooked after the years. that said, there's also another nice touch to it:

if you're running with a zerg (grouped or not) using them should feel like a waste. so many fights are simply decided by the numbers. this might give committed players another edge to win whilst outnumbered - by fully committing.

i realize that this contradicts this:

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What ever poisons become FOTM will be mandatory to run in PvP to stay competitive.

Larger groups will be able to lock down smaller ones even more by spamming poisons on one person. I'm surprised everyone that likes 1vX (that still plays this game) isn't speaking more about this. Inb4 1vX is dead or 1vX is fine.

I don't see poisons adding a positive element in PvP gameplay or increasing the skill ceiling. I see everyone collectively deciding what poison is best and then you have to run that because everyone else is running it.

The people that ruin the economy by speculating and price manipulation are going to have a field day with this.

but I am fairly convinced that the typical bunch of pugs that gets 1vX'd would be the first to go without poisons (or even light attacks altogether).

further it is a buff to purges, light attacks and makes sustain a bit harder. i like seeing all those changes.

ofc, there are huge downfalls, in particular the need to farm / get gold without facing a particular challenge and the clunkyness that seems to have been introduced when trying to weave with a psn equipped.

In summary, I am happy they are introduced now but I wouldn't be surprised if I hated them and wanted them gone by the time the next DLC hits (or the one after that). That said, if ZOS introduced the thrid kind of master/msa/x weapons, maybe new enchants will outshine poisons. after all, the third skill of every single weapon line is widely used atm and enchants could potentially be very powerful

Takes-No-Prisoner

Question, if I am holding block and my target hits me with one of the mentioned poisons in the OP, do I actually get those status effects?

The OP has poisons that last somewhere between 2.5-4.5 seconds with lots of utility. But then a google search shows me this;



And this one is 10 seconds.

The 10 second one sounds more menacing but has less utility. Now as someone who PvPs, I would probably take the 10 second duration over the multi utility poison. I can't see myself making a large dent into my target in under 2.5-4.5 seconds. 10 seconds though, I could force my target to run out of stamina/magic...This all assuming the 20% proc goes off at the correct time at the correct point in the fight.

OdinForge

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

I liked the idea of applying poison to a weapon.

2 years ago.

This is not what I envisioned when we originally spoke about adding poison to weapons. So far the patch has a lot of great changes, and the devs even took feedback on changes we hated.

Poison like this is a no no.

Bfish22090

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

i voted no because i actually play the game, unlike the pvp devs here

Rune_Relic

I will wait to see how this plays out before I decide what happens next for me.

I am not a lover of buff/debuff sequence+timing critical whackamole games that demand macro combos to be truly effective and induce RSI in the process.
If uncle sheos' cheese wagon is heading further in this direction.
Its not a place I want follow.

Rune_Relic

Turelus wrote: »

Communities complain managing resources isn't required in PvP any more. Community complains ZOS add something which makes resources important again.

Its not about good counter measures.

Its about creating new counter measures to fix a problem created by existing mechanics.
ie another bandaid instead of dealing with the actual issue.
Poeple should never have had such massive resources to begin with ...then resource drain poisons wouldnt have even been on the agenda.

Sugaroverdose

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

DDuke wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

So if I'm in light armor and I get CC'd with stam poison on...my break free is going to cost 60% moar?

yes. same for block and stuff. you need like 1200+ stam rec just to break free with them more than twice

Actually, stamina cost increasing poison affects only stamina abilities - break free, block & roll dodge costs remain unchanged by it.


As to the topic, I wish there was a "Yes and No" option - these poisons are going to end the endless duels, which is very, very good (especially considering the upcoming arenas/BGs) - but in 1vX they're going to be a pain in the arse.

There's no reason to nerf sustain-based builds to 'fix endless duels' by boosting burst much more with poisons, what if i want to kill a guy only by 'classical' dots? It's possible in TG, but doesn't seems like that i will survive or will have enough magicka in DB to get all those dot's up.

'Move on' isn't good response. Also i didn't like @Wrobel response in ESO Live(shortly - if you outnumbered you will die anyway), i have couple of videos when i get constant DPS from more than 8 people, staying alive and killing some of them, how do you think will it be possible in DB if even half of them will have poisons? NO.

Sigma957 wrote: »

Well I think its good, might actually make people think about what gear to run in pvp and not just about all damage. Will need gear that ramps up your regen or run purge on one of your bars to get rid of it. Even better run your own poison back at your attacker. Might actually make snakeblood skill in alchemist be useful.

Your sustain build will die before your poison even make any difference, sorry bro.

artal

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

I think most of us can agree that game is not really balanced as it is. Do you think adding poisons in game will help that balance?
I mean first it was: lets make them 30% (which was huge issue already) and now they made them into 60%?!!!
It feels that idea of developers is that people will rage about this like crazy and when they reduce to 30% again it will be less of uproar.

Poisons are lame mechanics with super high reward for no skill at all and it will kill small scale pvp and give bad players sense of accomplishment.

Sounomi

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Meh, will stop roll dodge spam/shield spam at least.

Higher stamina cost only applies to abilities though. Roll dodge will be unaffected by those poisons.

vortexman11

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

DocFrost72 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What ever poisons become FOTM will be mandatory to run in PvP to stay competitive.

Larger groups will be able to lock down smaller ones even more by spamming poisons on one person. I'm surprised everyone that likes 1vX (that still plays this game) isn't speaking more about this. Inb4 1vX is dead or 1vX is fine.

I don't see poisons adding a positive element in PvP gameplay or increasing the skill ceiling. I see everyone collectively deciding what poison is best and then you have to run that because everyone else is running it.

The people that ruin the economy by speculating and price manipulation are going to have a field day with this.

When you're faced with a dev that basically says "Well you're going to die anyways, so it doesn't matter if poisons stack on one person" it kind of gets rid of all motivation to comment on it.

Mostly because they are right.

They're right that a group that already has the advantage of numbers, takes less damage due to AoE Caps, and drops more ultimates due to no dynamic ultimate generation should now have the further advantage of stacking multiple types of poisons on single players? If thats what the devs think is right, then we need new devs.

Now I'll get bombarded by people saying "I want the game balanced around 1vX" which is not true. I just believe that saying someone is going to die anyways is not balance, balance is giving everyone an equal chance at success, not stacking the odds in one sides favour.

Lava_Croft

No. do some more work and make them actually balanced or drop them totally

It's pretty safe to say that if you don't like running in a big group of pugs or a lag inducing train of proxdet spamming purgebots, ESO's PvP wants you gone.