Stop nerfing PvE difficulty please.

Strider_Roshin

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

Van_0S

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Elephant42

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

News flash: this is not an education system, it is not a place of work, it is not real life - it is a GAME.

martinhpb16_ESO

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Ikr!
This thread itself is lame.....

I am also stating on ZOS business model.
Yes! TG was easy but the group dungeon was very difficult.

So, OP I didn't read your post properly. Your are just winning for nothing....its a PvE content that ZOS as to sell to get money. Not everyone is veteran, when they buy this extra content/DLC.

So, go for group veteran dungeons or for solo vMSA.

"Stop complaining for difficult content that is not group dungeon/ Solo Arena related. So, keep dreaming...."

What group dungeon, do you mean the Trial? It has two modes, easy and difficult.

Easy mode is pretty straight forward and pitched nicely for casual raiders / pugs.

Are you condoning the nerf of NPC in IC. Have you even been there?

You would have a point if open world content had never been difficult, but it has. What people are complaining about is that the content is getting easier to an extent that it becomes underwhelming.

It is difficult ito see what you are trying to say n your posts.

New players have the whole game, every zone to play. Why must new DLC be gimped to incorrectly scaled low levels when there is no open world content for cap levels. After all there is only 2 weeks worth of content in the DLC anyway.

Van_0S

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martinhpb16_ESO

Elephant42 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

News flash: this is not an education system, it is not a place of work, it is not real life - it is a GAME.

He/she was using a metaphor and not being literal.

martinhpb16_ESO

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

But just random mobs that you fight in that zone should be easy. Why?
Well, so that new player can lvl up fast.

No no no no please NO!

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

So, it was very difficult for a guy like me who come home late at work and get less than 2 hours to play this game, only to find that my goal is very far and unreachable due to the difficulty that the veteran enemies have in that zone.

it was the same for all of us, its the progression and achievemnt that makes it fun. Just being able to do something straight off is not fun for a lot of people.

Mojmir

at least chess is still challenging, nerf queen

LadyNalcarya

I agree.
Recent changes make tanks and healers obsolete, you dont even need any kind of group synergy... Just zerg rush everything.
We need more difficulty gradient in this game, so everyone will have content for them, and goals, if they wish.
Not just 99,99999999999999% of super easy cakewalk and vMoL and vSO.
Because you know, the difficulty is relative, and of course, after killing everyone with auto attacks in solo pve vICP might seem a bit overwhelming. But it wouldnt be if we had different difficulty tiers between "hard" and "cakewalk".

Woeler

Too many people value L2RolePlay more than L2P. If the boss doesn't die when their argonian stamina vampire nightblade writes in chat "Begone filthy creature" they'll start asking for nerfs because the content is "Too hard" and "meta builds don't fit their characters personality". Lmao.

LadyNalcarya

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

This is a game not education for getting placement or job.

Its just to have fun!!!
Like I said in my perivous post PvP is difficult to master similarly PvE group dungeons and trails.

But just random mobs that you fight in that zone should be easy. Why?
Well, so that new player can lvl up fast.

I remember a year ago before IC, I couldn't even kill those veteran mobs because I didnt have good gear set( like hunding rage,etc).
All I wanted is to get that lvl in order to be competitive in PvP and PvE dungeons( no scaling was there at that time)

So, it was very difficult for a guy like me who come home late at work and get less than 2 hours to play this game, only to find that my goal is very far and unreachable due to the difficulty that the veteran enemies have in that zone.

Your post is not matching your nickname.
And I disagree about solo difficulty.
At the current state, it teaches players that they can just ignore all mechanics (like bashing, not standing in red etc), and just wreck everything by spamming execute at 100%. People are lazy, so this is natural - game simply does not encourage using its (pretty good, btw) combat system. And naturally, those players are shocked that suddenly their way of playing is not working in some dungeon. So they think that its because the dungeon is too hard, and not because spamming executes and light attacks is not a very viable way of playing.
Every game ever has a set of rules. And in any game you'll be screwed if you just blatantly ignore them. Why this game should be any different?
Btw, not having any goals and motivations in game decreases play time, which is not very good for an mmo, since it has to keep players busy for a while.

And ofc, Im not asking for 100% super hardcore game. But when a game is so easy that yo udont even need to pay attention to its rules, its a broken game.

Strider_Roshin

Elephant42 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

News flash: this is not an education system, it is not a place of work, it is not real life - it is a GAME.

Thanks for proving my point. I said it's this kind of mindset that's ruining our education system. I didn't say this is an education system. Also what's the point of playing a game that poses no challenge? Conquering obstacles is what makes games fun; it's what makes a game competitive. This is why we have leader boards or "High Scores". If a game doesn't pose a challenge, then what are you conquering? Dumbing down content devalues a game. It doesn't make it more fun. It loses its salt.

Strider_Roshin

Mojmir wrote: »

at least chess is still challenging, nerf queen

Still one of my favorite games of all time. I actually always keep a magnetic chess board in my backpack :-)

Elephant42

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

News flash: this is not an education system, it is not a place of work, it is not real life - it is a GAME.

Thanks for proving my point. I said it's this kind of mindset that's ruining our education system. I didn't say this is an education system. Also what's the point of playing a game that poses no challenge? Conquering obstacles is what makes games fun; it's what makes a game competitive. This is why we have leader boards or "High Scores". If a game doesn't pose a challenge, then what are you conquering? Dumbing down content devalues a game. It doesn't make it more fun. It loses its salt.

It's not that I don't understand analogy, it's that I think your post about your education system is a faulty analogy. My point, that you seem to have missed, is that most games are far removed from real life and real life analogies are irrelevant in a fantasy world.

Your ideas about what makes a game "fun" are not shared by everyone, perhaps not even by the majority of game players. What I do have a fair degree of confidence in however, is that ZOSs telemetry is giving them a far more accurate picture of what the people who play their game find to be "fun", and not the hyperbole and bombast all too evident in this and other threads of similar ilk.

code65536

While I am against difficulty nerfs in general, I think the IC one might be justified.

The reason is that IC is supposed to be a PvP zone, not a PvE zone. Right now, it's basically a PvE zone with some PvP scattered here and there. But with the district capture overhaul, it's clear that ZOS wants to convert this area into a mostly-PvP area, and strong PvE enemies will likely "get in the way" of PvP activity.

Strider_Roshin

code65536 wrote: »

While I am against difficulty nerfs in general, I think the IC one might be justified.

The reason is that IC is supposed to be a PvP zone, not a PvE zone. Right now, it's basically a PvE zone with some PvP scattered here and there. But with the district capture overhaul, it's clear that ZOS wants to convert this area into a mostly-PvP area, and strong PvE enemies will likely "get in the way" of PvP activity.

Ironically, it was my favorite PvE zone due to its difficulty. Now I've got nothing.

Liofa

About mobs in PvP zones , I agree the nerf on them . Getting 1-shot from a random boss attack while dueling is not fun .

About dungeons , please don't . vCoA can be soloable by many of players and they are nerfing it . It is beyond logic . Only reason this change can be happening is ZOS combat team still didn't complete vCoA . We completed vICP 3-man in PTS with 300 ping and 300 cp with only 3 wipes through all dungeon ( it took us some time to get used to changes ^^ ) . If people still can't complete these dungeons , it is their problem . They should just spend some effort instead of crying in forums . I remember my first time in vICP . It took us 6 hours to complete it .

Attackopsn

@zos_finn please look at the serious responses in this post, this is something that seriously concerns many of us that love to play the content you guys make!

Valorin

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are smaller dlcs (compared to Wrothgar) which came with a lot of changes for the game's internals. Hew's Bane and the Gold Coast are supposed to be single player zones which are of course soloable.
I am pretty sure that they had a ton of work behind the scenes to make all the changes work and I am also pretty sure that they are not finished yet. Killing off vetRanks also means a lot of rebalancing and that will have to happen after the release of Dark Brotherhood of course. Give them time, there will be new challenges. TG wasn't made for Progaming and neither will Dark Brotherhood be, which I really, really appreciate to be honest. I love the immersion in ESO a lot, also that I don't have to mind much about the mobs in many zones... I also loved the TG content, and no, it wasn't _that_ challenging, but had a well written story, great NPCs and great content.
Most zones also have to be doable for people without CPs, and of course that content will be much easier for those with lots of them, naturally.
They won't forget about challenges. Let the changes pass and there will also be new trials and hard-to-do stuff, but many players play this game for its immersion, and this was their turn concerning new content. There are different playstyles and they all have the right to be adressed.

Rafishul

Woeler wrote: »

Too many people value L2RolePlay more than L2P. If the boss doesn't die when their argonian stamina vampire nightblade writes in chat "Begone filthy creature" they'll start asking for nerfs because the content is "Too hard" and "meta builds don't fit their characters personality". Lmao.

omg yes

Haydenmango

ADarklore wrote: »

Here are Matt Firor's thoughts on ESO as an MMO. Note he mentions the word SOLO four times during the interview. Long story short, most of the game is designed to be soloable.

A lot of the game is also designed to be tackled with a group of players. Note he mentions the word SOLO two times and GROUP five times in his answer regarding solo versus group play.

GC: How have you found that different people are playing the game? What percentage treat it as single-player game like Skyrim and how many as a co-operative experience? How much overlap is there between the two groups and what has surprised you about the way the game has ended up being played?
MF: ESO is a huge game with a lot of different types of content, so we encourage players to play the game the way they wish. Most players start out mostly solo, but the game introduces them to new concepts over time – group bosses, which are encountered in the wild and require some help to defeat, along with other auto-grouping features like Dark Anchors and public dungeons.
Later, they get introduced to four-man dungeons, PvP, and eventually Trials, our large-group ‘raids’. All of these are best tackled with a group, but players aren’t forced to do them. In fact, you can play the hundreds of hours of solo quest content if you wish and still have a great time.
As for overlap, there is a ton. Most of our players have at least tried group content like dungeons, and there are many players who reserve days of the week to do different types of content: Tuesdays, for example, are a popular dungeon and Trial day. We encourage this by having daily quests (via our in-game group, the Undaunted) that take players into dungeons to discover really cool rewards.

Also the game is to easy.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

at least chess is still challenging, nerf queen

Still one of my favorite games of all time. I actually always keep a magnetic chess board in my backpack :-)

IMHO the challenge of chess has little to do with the queen and all to do with the level of your opponent. You'd probably get bored playing against me - and I'd get frustrated. But when playing with people of my level I have fun - and my opponents too.

Van_0S

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The Uninvited

Signed.

I remember when 1.5 update came out and dungeons suddenly seemed harder and more difficult than before. Back than I was wearing dropped green/blue gear (not even complete set items) and playing in first person. AND we didn't have Champion Points! Not sure, but if I'm not mistaken soft caps were still in the game too.

It changed a lot for me. I had to rethink my skills, learn to play in third person, craft my own gear and have better situational awareness. It made me a better player and I liked that!

That's what gaming is about to me. You try, learn, try again and beat content that you considered too hard before simply because you didn't know everything yet.

Strider_Roshin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

at least chess is still challenging, nerf queen

Still one of my favorite games of all time. I actually always keep a magnetic chess board in my backpack :-)

IMHO the challenge of chess has little to do with the queen and all to do with the level of your opponent. You'd probably get bored playing against me - and I'd get frustrated. But when playing with people of my level I have fun - and my opponents too.

Nah, if you're a good challenge I'd enjoy it. I haven't lost a game of chess since I was a kid (which kind of sucks because I feel the pressure of not losing every time I play). My favorite piece is by far the knight ;-)

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Yeah, the constant nerfing to the game just makes it worse, I've not even completed the AD zones on my main as it's so easy that I fall asleep doing it. levelling an alt is super easy too, just spam one attack and watch everything melt. Haven't had to block, dodge etc, as nothing comes even close to being able to kill me. But with levelling an alt these days I completely understand why people go into dungeons not blocking, using impulse as a single target spell etc, it's just way too easy before they start doing dungeons and then are forced to learn the game with 3 other people that may or may not kick them for being completely incompetent.

KenaPKK

As long as PvE is repetitive, it will be easy by nature. You will eventually get bored with it.

While I agree that they need to stop nerfing the difficulty of PvE content, PvP is and will always be the most challenging end game content in this game unless they gut the PvP system. People think and adapt, and PvE does not. Try PvP out!

starkerealm

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

They're just making this game more boring. You know, challenging content isn't a bad thing. It's what makes games like Dark Souls so popular...

No, what makes the Souls games work is that their combat feels satisfying. It's sharp, it's fast, it's lethal, but that lethality goes both ways. ESO's combat doesn't match that speed, and doesn't offer the same level of tactical choices for moment to moment combat. More than that, ESO can't, without a complete redesign of the combat system. So let's leave that little myth where it is. Dark Souls isn't hard.

Demanding? Sure.

Unforgiving? Yes.

Hard? No.

Strider_Roshin

starkerealm wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

They're just making this game more boring. You know, challenging content isn't a bad thing. It's what makes games like Dark Souls so popular...

No, what makes the Souls games work is that their combat feels satisfying. It's sharp, it's fast, it's lethal, but that lethality goes both ways. ESO's combat doesn't match that speed, and doesn't offer the same level of tactical choices for moment to moment combat. More than that, ESO can't, without a complete redesign of the combat system. So let's leave that little myth where it is. Dark Souls isn't hard.

Demanding? Sure.

Unforgiving? Yes.

Hard? No.

Lol it's easily one of the most difficult games out there, but it's difficulty is dependent on you. If you farm souls in order to level up, or if you play with others it won't be that difficult. ESO is definitely faster paced, and my goodness have you ever done the PvP? You thought the lag here was bad. In dark souls the phantom range can get so bad; you'd think it was a wrecking blow. Now with that said, yes it is by far more technical. In dark souls if you mess up, you're dead.

martinhpb16_ESO

Valorin wrote: »

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are smaller dlcs (compared to Wrothgar) which came with a lot of changes for the game's internals. Hew's Bane and the Gold Coast are supposed to be single player zones which are of course soloable.
I am pretty sure that they had a ton of work behind the scenes to make all the changes work and I am also pretty sure that they are not finished yet. Killing off vetRanks also means a lot of rebalancing and that will have to happen after the release of Dark Brotherhood of course. Give them time, there will be new challenges. TG wasn't made for Progaming and neither will Dark Brotherhood be, which I really, really appreciate to be honest. I love the immersion in ESO a lot, also that I don't have to mind much about the mobs in many zones... I also loved the TG content, and no, it wasn't _that_ challenging, but had a well written story, great NPCs and great content.
Most zones also have to be doable for people without CPs, and of course that content will be much easier for those with lots of them, naturally.
They won't forget about challenges. Let the changes pass and there will also be new trials and hard-to-do stuff, but many players play this game for its immersion, and this was their turn concerning new content. There are different playstyles and they all have the right to be adressed.

Sorry and with all respect to your playstyle, immersion and well written content aren't enough to keep me interested in a game. What I find immersive is some interesting challenging scenarios that take some thought. For me the scenario you describe is underwhelming and sounds more like second life than an MMO. Sorry