Stop nerfing PvE difficulty please.

LadyNalcarya

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

I hope that ZOS continues to pay attention to their telemetry, nerf where the data says it's appropriate and pay very little attention to all the threads like this one, the vast majority of which are pure ego stroking.

Wrong mentality. It's this kind of mindset that's ruining our already terrible education system. Not enough people in AP courses? Then let's lower the standards in order to allow more students in. This is why we have a generation of self-entitled idiots.

This is a game not education for getting placement or job.

Its just to have fun!!!
Like I said in my perivous post PvP is difficult to master similarly PvE group dungeons and trails.

But just random mobs that you fight in that zone should be easy. Why?
Well, so that new player can lvl up fast.

I remember a year ago before IC, I couldn't even kill those veteran mobs because I didnt have good gear set( like hunding rage,etc).
All I wanted is to get that lvl in order to be competitive in PvP and PvE dungeons( no scaling was there at that time)

So, it was very difficult for a guy like me who come home late at work and get less than 2 hours to play this game, only to find that my goal is very far and unreachable due to the difficulty that the veteran enemies have in that zone.

Your post is not matching your nickname.

The one who is an assassin is Yurt the silent chief in Demon Souls.

I basically gave a list of hero's and villains names to ZOS and they choosed the assassin. Not only that, my main is a NB.
(In cyrodiil, I rarely use the chat. So, most of the time i am silent and watching my prey )

Now, no to the topic.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I disagree about solo difficulty.
At the current state, it teaches players that they can just ignore all mechanics (like bashing, not standing in red etc), and just wreck everything by spamming execute at 100%. People are lazy, so this is natural - game simply does not encourage using its (pretty good, btw) combat system. And naturally, those players are shocked that suddenly their way of playing is not working in some dungeon. So they think that its because the dungeon is too hard, and not because spamming executes and light attacks is not a very viable way of playing.
Every game ever has a set of rules. And in any game you'll be screwed if you just blatantly ignore them. Why this game should be any different?
Btw, not having any goals and motivations in game decreases play time, which is not very good for an mmo, since it has to keep players busy for a while.

And ofc, Im not asking for 100% super hardcore game. But when a game is so easy that yo udont even need to pay attention to its rules, its a broken game.

Yea, I guess your right about the difficulty.

Well, its a char of souls series which is notorious for not nerfing the content, so I thought thats ironic.

starkerealm wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

They're just making this game more boring. You know, challenging content isn't a bad thing. It's what makes games like Dark Souls so popular...

No, what makes the Souls games work is that their combat feels satisfying. It's sharp, it's fast, it's lethal, but that lethality goes both ways. ESO's combat doesn't match that speed, and doesn't offer the same level of tactical choices for moment to moment combat. More than that, ESO can't, without a complete redesign of the combat system. So let's leave that little myth where it is. Dark Souls isn't hard.

Demanding? Sure.

Unforgiving? Yes.

Hard? No.

Dark souls is a different game though, even though it shares some basic concepts with ESO.
And there can be different kinds of challenge. But in any case, making interesting game mechanics (buffs/debuffs, interrupts, executes, etc) and then nerfing content to the point you can ignore everything is just absurd.
Ambiguity of "play as you want" principle is the worst thing about this game and its developers. Like, of course, I support the diversity of the builds, and being able to play all roles as any class and race. This actually allows me to make any character I want, and this is great. But dumbing down the content so that you can kill enemies by staring at them does not encourage diversity. In fact, in encourages quite the contrary - just mindless zerging. Healers, tanks, who needs them? Just 4 dds in heavy armor spamming light attacks. Using different skills and creative approach? Who needs that if enemies still die if you spam 1 button. Is that diversity? Dont think so. And I dont think that building all poweful (and all simular) Dovakhiins with permanently toggled tgm is good for the future of the game. Mmo should keep the players entertained for a while, but if they will be able to beat every dungeon and raid in 1 evening, they will get bored. Its not a problem for a single-player game that doesnt need to maintain servers and updates. But for an mmo this is just really stupid.

starkerealm

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

They're just making this game more boring. You know, challenging content isn't a bad thing. It's what makes games like Dark Souls so popular...

No, what makes the Souls games work is that their combat feels satisfying. It's sharp, it's fast, it's lethal, but that lethality goes both ways. ESO's combat doesn't match that speed, and doesn't offer the same level of tactical choices for moment to moment combat. More than that, ESO can't, without a complete redesign of the combat system. So let's leave that little myth where it is. Dark Souls isn't hard.

Demanding? Sure.

Unforgiving? Yes.

Hard? No.

Lol it's easily one of the most difficult games out there, but it's difficulty is dependent on you.

Emphasis added.

The Souls games have a lot of mechanics designed explicitly to help players who are having difficulty with the content, ranging from weapons like the Drake Sword, enemy depopulation in DS2, or even free levels from Yoel in DS3. These are games which are designed to tailor their difficulty to the player approaching them in a mix of obvious and really subtle ways.

They also maintain tension well, moment to moment.

The issue there is the challenge feeds back into satisfaction on content completion. Something that a lot of developers have completely missed when their takeaway was, "well Dark Souls is hard, so we can make our game unreasonably difficult." Ask Funcom or Spiders how that worked out for them.

starkerealm

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Dark souls is a different game though, even though it shares some basic concepts with ESO.
And there can be different kinds of challenge. But in any case, making interesting game mechanics (buffs/debuffs, interrupts, executes, etc) and then nerfing content to the point you can ignore everything is just absurd.
Ambiguity of "play as you want" principle is the worst thing about this game and its developers. Like, of course, I support the diversity of the builds, and being able to play all roles as any class and race. This actually allows me to make any character I want, and this is great. But dumbing down the content so that you can kill enemies by staring at them does not encourage diversity. In fact, in encourages quite the contrary - just mindless zerging. Healers, tanks, who needs them? Just 4 dds in heavy armor spamming light attacks. Using different skills and creative approach? Who needs that if enemies still die if you spam 1 button. Is that diversity? Dont think so. And I dont think that building all poweful (and all simular) Dovakhiins with permanently toggled tgm is good for the future of the game. Mmo should keep the players entertained for a while, but if they will be able to beat every dungeon and raid in 1 evening, they will get bored. Its not a problem for a single-player game that doesnt need to maintain servers and updates. But for an mmo this is just really stupid.

Honestly, this is true. At the same time, you do need to account for differences in player skill. You're always going to have players who can face roll through your toughest content. When you're literally selling new zones, and your ability to survive as a business depends on your median players not getting frustrated with the content, and continuing to buy, month in, month out, that stands in direct conflict with players who, like you or me, can basically ignore the mechanics and spam things down.

MMOs have tried to chase Fromsoft, and the result has been catastrophic. The Secret World is a graveyard these days, because the "Souls style difficulty" (which was a huge lie for how the game actually worked) turned off too many players. You could actually watch the population drop, zone to zone.

As much as I'd love more challenging content for ESO, I also don't want to see this game turn into that kind of a graveyard, where you can't get teams together for endgame dungeons because there simply aren't enough people online, geared up to handle them.

Iduyenn

Instead of educating in l2p, they make it simpler... Story of my live....

Magdalina

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Why did you nerf IC mobs ?

It was one of the rare places where we had to be careful when crossing a zone.

Now I can just pull a whole district and AE-kill everything.

You nerfed VR zones, you nerfed dungeon difficulty, new zones that come with DLC and so easy.

We're not 5 years old kids playing to Hello Kitty online.

Stop it. Bring difficulty back in. Everything is so easy now, and thus BORING AS HELL.

Well, even new players must be able to complete it. right?
Its also not fair that PvE dungeon pros kick/leave non experienced players to their fate rather than guiding/helping them.
So,I have only 3 words for you.
"GO PLAY PVP".

Have you tried guiding/helping some of those non experienced players?

I have. I still try, but let me tell you - I understand each and every single person who kicks/leaves a WGT group that has inexperienced people in it. One run with heavy resto-attacking and impulsing for single target damage dps who(along with tank) seem to have religious aversion to block can really be all it takes.

Everyone's acting as though it's experienced players' job to help less experienced people, while somehow less experienced people have no obligations in that context at all and if they, bluntly put, suck, then more experienced people should just have to carry them. This attitude is getting tiring.

Here you can see some more of my thoughts on the subject.

Astanphaeus

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Well, even new players must be able to complete it. right?
Its also not fair that PvE dungeon pros kick/leave non experienced players to their fate rather than guiding/helping them.
So,I have only 3 words for you.
"GO PLAY PVP".

No. No it doesn't. There is no reason anyone should be able to do something perfectly on their first attempt. People should have to practice. That is what makes things a challenge. Guess what; someone had to figure out how to do those dungeons, and they didn't have the benefit of experienced players before them.

And there are many PvE pros who will take you guide you through new content as long as you are willing to listen and make changes to your play style as necessary for the content. For instance, if you are tanking AA and refuse to get the ranged taunt to control the axes, then yeah, you will get kicked, but that is because you have been told what needs to be done and just aren't even trying.

Furthermore, every dungeon (except maybe vMoL for obvious reasons) has numerous YouTube videos showing you how to do it. Don't blame others when you are just too lazy to go and watch them.

[Edited to remove insulting content]

Destruent

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Well, even new players must be able to complete it. right?
Its also not fair that PvE dungeon pros kick/leave non experienced players to their fate rather than guiding/helping them.
So,I have only 3 words for you.
"GO PLAY PVP".

No, you should't be able to complete everything without problems without experience/first try. There are also lots of players who help new/unexperienced people. Some also just don't like pvp.
Btw. the so called "hardest" dungeon ingame is not that hard at all...just look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87j4REvwKk

nearly a no death run without dedicated healer. We only had 3 deaths.
1. DPS pulled a second group of adds and the rest of us didn't notice
2. i messed up the mechanic at the endboss and therefore killed me and another guy

There are only 4 hard-hitting moves in there:
- little AoEs from the harvester mobs (don't stack and you are fine)
- the normal attacks of the flesh abonimation (hold block and keep aggro and you are fine)
- the aoes of necrotic hoarvors (don't aggro both of them)
- Shadow barrage (ability of lord warden) (use, shields, heals or let the tank just stand between boss/player)

Zenimax will have to completely get rid of the mechanics in there if they want to make everyone able to complete this dungeon. Apart from this, there's not that much to nerf in there.

Sallington

The game is F2P and funded by people who want to buy costumes and faceroll through solo content like they could in Skyrim.

Buckle in.

Destruent

Sallington wrote: »

The game is F2P and funded by people who want to buy costumes and faceroll through solo content like they could in Skyrim.

Buckle in.

No problem, i don't mind about solocontent. As long as they don't touch groupcontent
Btw: lots of good players also pay for the game and are subscribers...

Ayantir

So agree with OP.

This game is now a nice long Solo-RPG with some features that enable multiplayer

#BringBackOurMMO