Official Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

ZoM_Head · May 2016

May i add something?

Why is Choking talons a MAGICKA costing ability an deals PHYSICAL damage?

I mean, sure its mainly for the debuff, but since TG it makes no sense to me which resource does this scale off from?

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

ZoM_Head wrote: »

May i add something?

Why is Choking talons a MAGICKA costing ability an deals PHYSICAL damage?

I mean, sure its mainly for the debuff, but since TG it makes no sense to me which resource does this scale off from?

Magicka/spell damage and physical CP, because reasons.

D0ntevenL1ft · May 2016

Reduce the cast time on wrecking blow since dk's (and other classes) need to implement a CC in-between casts. The changes have been good but the skill does half the effects as it did previously so we need half the cast time to use other abilities. Yes I'm posting this in a DK thread because it relates to the class. @Wrobel

Hutch679 · May 2016

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Reduce the cast time on wrecking blow since dk's (and other classes) need to implement a CC in-between casts. The changes have been good but the skill does half the effects as it did previously so we need half the cast time to use other abilities. Yes I'm posting this in a DK thread because it relates to the class. @Wrobel

Reduce the cast time of wrecking blow? First off the new changes make the wrecking blow morph only grant empowerment, so I'm guessing you're referring to the dizzying swing morph. Second, have you ever played in cyrodiil? Im thinking you probably have, but have not played there long enough to know that uppercut and it's morphs are reallllly strong and in a pretty good place. A reduction in cast time for uppercut and it's morphs is a ridiculous request.... Like seriously. And that wouldn't pertain to Dk's as its a weapon skill. Dk's have 3 skill trees. Ardent flame. Draconic power. Earthen heart. If your not referencing a skill in these three lines then it really doesn't necessarily pertain strictly to Dk's as anyone can use the other skill lines that are available to all.

Moglijuana · May 2016

Lord_Hev wrote: »

@Wrobel

Dragonblood needs serious attention for PvP. It is severely lacking. This is the Dragonknight's most important self-heal.... and it is ignored on most magic builds... do you honestly find this working as intended? This is the Dragonknight's class-defining skill. Wouldn't you agree, that a player should be able to count on their class self-heal to reliably heal them? How do you feel about the fact, those who play a magic DK are -forced- into using a resto staff because their class-defining skill is drastically under-performing?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Did you guys know that Dragonblood has been severely nerfed by the Battle-spirit healing reduction? Same thing with Malubeth 2 piece set bonus, which was a bug and was fixed this patch. Can we please look at Dragonblood and address the issue for this very important class-defining skill for Dragonknights?

@ZOS_AndyC @ZOS_Abdu @ZOS_AidanF @ZOS_AJ @ZOS_AjanJ @ZOS_BPerry @ZOS_BasileA @ZOS_BillMueller @ZOS_BobE @ZOS_BoydBeasley @ZOS_ChesterN @ZOS_CaitlinR @ZOS_CatK @ZOS_CharlieH @ZOS_Dan @ZOS_DanDunham @ZOS_DavidGee @ZOS_DavidH @ZOS_DavidP @ZOS_EdLynch @ZOS_EmilyM @ZOS_Emma @ZOS_EugeneB @ZOS_EveP @ZOS_FelixP @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_GabrielleA @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_Gideon

Hey guys, did ya'll hear about Dragonblood being severely nerfed by Battle spirit healing reduction? It's pretty bad for magic DKs that want to enjoy PvP.

@ZOS_Heather @ZOS_HeatherB @ZOS_HugoP @ZOS_JoBurba @ZOS_JamesO @ZOS_JanS @ZOS_JaredR @ZOS_JasonB @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_KaleyR @ZOS_Karli @ZOS_Katarina @ZOS_Kelly @ZOS_LenaicR @ZOS_LeroyW @ZOS_LodieA @ZOS_LonnyL @ZOS_LucasA @ZOS_MaxG @ZOS_MaggieS @ZOS_NickKonkle @ZOS_NinaM @ZOS_Olivier @ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_QuinnC @ZOS_RobertCordero @ZOS_RebeccaE

Do you any of you play a Dragonknight?

Quoting this because I'm tired of being forced into a resto staff as a MagDK.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

and another tag for good measure.

kinggingernator · May 2016

They just need some serious help on the passives that keeps them from getting run over in half a second against 4-5 people where any other class would have been able to 1vX them. It is stupid how easy playing other classes feels open world after playing my dk for a couple weeks straight.

Ishammael · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

To Mr @Wrobel and his team who scour the forums for feedback..

I watched the ESO live Thieves Guild episode where you took a lot of time out of your day to answer questions and give us an update on the structures you guys use for class balance and development. 3 things stood out in particular.
The current PvP meta is to do a lot of damage.

DKs had their execute removed because they get their damage from surrounding dots.

The PvP state of Dragonsblood is satisfactory because you guys are okay with skills being good in some situations and not others. IE: Good in PvE but not PvP.

We magicka DKs feel like you are choking us with both hands and just starving the life out of the DK. I’ll explain why and get back to this at the end.

DK Damage – As you said we have a competitively balanced dps via our dots and our whip. I would agree, but how does this play out in Cyrodiil? When I do a trial my dps rotation looks like this. (in no particular order)
Molten Whip

Burning Embers

Engulfing Flames

Flames of Oblivion

Eruption

This is what I have to keep up with to maintain the expected dps benchmark. This is fine in PvE but it is really not fine in PvP where you have to be your own tank, healer, and dps. You can’t dedicate 5 slots just to make dps in PvP and hope to survive. You need a well rounded tool kit but our system of doing damage does not accommodate that. That is why we have been calling whip a noodle for over a year and why we are always asking you for more damage. We cannot complete your expectations of how we should do damage in PvP. There are ways to fix this without breaking PvE, I even know of a way, but either way we can't just ignore this fact because of PvE.

DK Defense – Why can’t Dragonsblood be good in Cyrodiil? You have systematically killed everything that made us tanky and self sufficient in Cyrodiil. Dragonsblood is in fact useless in Cyrodiil which ties us to the resto staff as a requirement for magicka DK survival. You have killed our DK House via the loss of miss chance from cinderstorm. You have severely nerfed reflect which is what kept us from getting defiled by lethal arrow, and what allowed us to manage without mobility or range. You have killed our class shield due to battle spirit coupled with it’s foundation in health rather than magicka. The only defense or healing you have left in this class is draw essence which is great, and Armor Rating. However Armor rating is the worst form of defense in Cyrodiil because any person with a maul or mace has an automatic 20% armor penetration as a passive. The strongest existing defenses in Cyrodiil are healing, shielding, and dodging and we have neither of those left within the magicka DK.

So we can’t meet the damage meta you have created in Cyrodiil, nor are we allowed to have survival for some reason. So with one hand you are choking our dps and with the other hand you are choking our ability to survive . This is why we have been upset for over a year now, and repeating the same issues. You are killing the life of us. Let go with one hand and let us be something, because right now you are making us nothing.

+1, excellent summary.

RoamingRiverElk · May 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

To Mr @Wrobel and his team who scour the forums for feedback..

I watched the ESO live Thieves Guild episode where you took a lot of time out of your day to answer questions and give us an update on the structures you guys use for class balance and development. 3 things stood out in particular.
The current PvP meta is to do a lot of damage.

DKs had their execute removed because they get their damage from surrounding dots.

The PvP state of Dragonsblood is satisfactory because you guys are okay with skills being good in some situations and not others. IE: Good in PvE but not PvP.

We magicka DKs feel like you are choking us with both hands and just starving the life out of the DK. I’ll explain why and get back to this at the end.

DK Damage – As you said we have a competitively balanced dps via our dots and our whip. I would agree, but how does this play out in Cyrodiil? When I do a trial my dps rotation looks like this. (in no particular order)
Molten Whip

Burning Embers

Engulfing Flames

Flames of Oblivion

Eruption

This is what I have to keep up with to maintain the expected dps benchmark. This is fine in PvE but it is really not fine in PvP where you have to be your own tank, healer, and dps. You can’t dedicate 5 slots just to make dps in PvP and hope to survive. You need a well rounded tool kit but our system of doing damage does not accommodate that. That is why we have been calling whip a noodle for over a year and why we are always asking you for more damage. We cannot complete your expectations of how we should do damage in PvP. There are ways to fix this without breaking PvE, I even know of a way, but either way we can't just ignore this fact because of PvE.

DK Defense – Why can’t Dragonsblood be good in Cyrodiil? You have systematically killed everything that made us tanky and self sufficient in Cyrodiil. Dragonsblood is in fact useless in Cyrodiil which ties us to the resto staff as a requirement for magicka DK survival. You have killed our DK House via the loss of miss chance from cinderstorm. You have severely nerfed reflect which is what kept us from getting defiled by lethal arrow, and what allowed us to manage without mobility or range. You have killed our class shield due to battle spirit coupled with it’s foundation in health rather than magicka. The only defense or healing you have left in this class is draw essence which is great, and Armor Rating. However Armor rating is the worst form of defense in Cyrodiil because any person with a maul or mace has an automatic 20% armor penetration as a passive. The strongest existing defenses in Cyrodiil are healing, shielding, and dodging and we have neither of those left within the magicka DK.

So we can’t meet the damage meta you have created in Cyrodiil, nor are we allowed to have survival for some reason. So with one hand you are choking our dps and with the other hand you are choking our ability to survive . This is why we have been upset for over a year now, and repeating the same issues. You are killing the life of us. Let go with one hand and let us be something, because right now you are making us nothing.

+1, excellent summary.

I agree with this assessment.

WhiteNoiseMaker · May 2016

To @Wrobel and @ZOS_GinaBruno

Please take this moment to consider the input of someone who suffers from green-grey color-blindness, in that the new FX for the poison morphs are nigh impossible for someone like me to see and differentiate when activated in most of the outdoor and stone environments. I've been double and triple activating powers because I simply cannot tell if they are properly triggering. It's a visual nightmare for me.

All aesthetics aside, given how commonplace color-blindness is amongst the population, please try and accommodate that issue by adjusting the fx as a simple quality-of-life improvement?

Zakor · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

Obsidian Shard - This heal just seems awkward and without purpose. What are the chances I would need to heal and CC at the same time? How many bosses are CC-able and why would I use this heal for trash mobs. Why wouldn't I use healing ward instead? This skill really needs to stand out from among the universal and class heals.

I would like to see this shard do no damage but instead explode into a large aoe circle in the location of the the target that buffs the players in the circle as well has heals them like healing springs only with a larger upfront heal with minor ticks behind it. Also increase the cast cost of the skill and make the duration 8 seconds.

The buff could be (note some will require an increased cast cost)
Crit defense

Minor spell and physical mitigation

2k shield in PvP

1320 Armor Penetration

Stamina Regen hot.

The heal should be
~2000 in PvP on the first tick

~800 in PvP on the subsequent ticks.

If I have succeed in tuning Obsidian Shard then healing ward, blessing of restoration and healing springs will still be primary heal sources, while Obsidian Shard will be used in between as a buff rotation and aoe localized rapid regen.

This will give Obsidian Shard a clear, common, and desirable purpose while still being valuable for solo use.

Actutally I love the idea for the shard. As DK-Heal myself I struggle with using that skill since there are better alternatives for every situation. With the skill being in the same skillline like helping hands I woul really love a buff that restores some stamina to the healed targets. Something like: 2% on first (strong) tick, 0,5% every tick afterwards.

I for myself would also remove the target cast and would add a ground cast for the ability for easier use just like healing springs. So you would have to make the decision between sustained heal or a burst of healing with a bit backup regen. Regarding this the ticks of the shard would have to be lower than the spring ticks, maybe around 60-75% of them. The first tick could then be around 120% of the spring ticks.

Sad thing is that I dont think anyone from ZOS will read this nor think about implementing it.

RoamingRiverElk · May 2016

As I said here, magicka DK in PvP is too conditional on the stupidity of its enemies, while other classes rely on the cleverness of the player in order to be effective. And that's a crucial difference. Magicka DKs need more survivability in PvP when being attacked by multiple people. That either has to come from viable damage avoidance, significantly increased resource management, or otherwise stronger skills. And no. Magicka DK will not be better off even nearly enough with 5000 more armor and spell resistance or something.

WhiteNoiseMaker · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

Obsidian Shard - This heal just seems awkward and without purpose. What are the chances I would need to heal and CC at the same time? How many bosses are CC-able and why would I use this heal for trash mobs. Why wouldn't I use healing ward instead? This skill really needs to stand out from among the universal and class heals.

I would like to see this shard do no damage but instead explode into a large aoe circle in the location of the the target that buffs the players in the circle as well has heals them like healing springs only with a larger upfront heal with minor ticks behind it. Also increase the cast cost of the skill and make the duration 8 seconds.
[/b][/color]

Oh gods please no.

I like Obsidian Shards as it is now and I utilize it quite often in certain rotations. It's on my Ranged-Boss bar for situations like the end-boss of Veteran Fungal Grotto and the Engine Guardian of Veteran Darkshade. It's on my PVP Resto-Staff bar and I make consistent use of it in group skirmishes. Why? Because this still proc's the Helping Hands passive whereas Healing Ward does not and Obsidian costs less Magicka. I understand you think it should be a dedicated heal, and that fits your purposes better, but please don't assume that just because you don't use it, that no one does.

Armitas · May 2016

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Obsidian Shard - This heal just seems awkward and without purpose. What are the chances I would need to heal and CC at the same time? How many bosses are CC-able and why would I use this heal for trash mobs. Why wouldn't I use healing ward instead? This skill really needs to stand out from among the universal and class heals.

I would like to see this shard do no damage but instead explode into a large aoe circle in the location of the the target that buffs the players in the circle as well has heals them like healing springs only with a larger upfront heal with minor ticks behind it. Also increase the cast cost of the skill and make the duration 8 seconds.
[/b][/color]

Oh gods please no.

I like Obsidian Shards as it is now and I utilize it quite often in certain rotations. It's on my Ranged-Boss bar for situations like the end-boss of Veteran Fungal Grotto and the Engine Guardian of Veteran Darkshade. It's on my PVP Resto-Staff bar and I make consistent use of it in group skirmishes. Why? Because this still proc's the Helping Hands passive whereas Healing Ward does not and Obsidian costs less Magicka. I understand you think it should be a dedicated heal, and that fits your purposes better, but please don't assume that just because you don't use it, that no one does.

Obsidian shard will not cc a boss and if you are healing you should be getting helping hands from igneous shield. If you are dpsing in stamina then there is something wrong with your build if you are needing this for Stam return. If you are PvP healing you should be laying down your hots and carpeting with blessing of restoration, not casting a CC for a minor single target heal on someone. Burst healing is for Templar BOL, we DK's should be running the base heals underneath and keeping the hots up for spell power cure.

I always assume that someone has some obscure reason to use every skill this game has ever had. But that doesn't make it a good reason for it to be the way it is. Explain to me in some detail why you think this skill is so great from it's own merits, rather than contingent passives. It being a good skill that triggers helping hands makes it a magicka dump for stamina, not a good skill in it's own right. Also If you read the list of buffs, stamina was one of the things I listed as a possible benefit in addition to the default helping hands.

BlackMadara · May 2016

A couple of things that I have thought about and researched about mag DK:
I used an online tooltip calculator to compare each classes "spammable" skill's damage. This is based 3000 spell damage and 35000 max magicka. Granted, not everyone is going to have the same stats, some builds can afford more offensive stats and some more defensive.

DK flame lash has a 6348 tooltip and power lash a 7942 tooltip.
NB concealed weapon has a 6851 tooltip and swallow soul a 6348 tooltip.
Sorc crystal frag has a 10225 tooltip.
Templar puncturing sweep has a 994 tooltip for 4 hits and dark flare a 12167 tooltip.

Now I believe that ZOS balances the spammable skills based on certain combinations and passives.

For DK, engulfing flames increases flame damage by 10% increasing flame lash tooltip to 6983 and power lash to 8736.
For NB, they have a large tooltip for concealed weapon and smaller one for swallow soul due to range. They also get bonuses for attacking from stealth and cc'd enemies.
For Sorc, crystal frags has a very large tooltip due to its cast time and empowerment instacast proc.
For Temp, sweeps does 140% more damage to the first enemy hit for a 5566 tooltip with a 25% chance to proc burning light each hit for 3647 damage, so with 4 hits and one proc would be 9213 damage (rng math for more accurate number). Dark flare is large to due to cast time.

Flame lash and concealed weapon are the most easily comparable due to being both single target, instant cast, spammable skills. Flame lash is weaker unless power lash procs or engulfing flames is on the enemy. The time to apply the dot increases time to kill for a DK compared to a NB but would mean more dps past a certain point. PvP is more focused on lower time to kill however. Also, most DKs build tankier due to not having means to escape,control fights, or reliably reset fights like cloak, shields, streak, and a strong heal.

This is just so people can see side by side damage possibilities for magicka classes. I don't think that whip hits "like a noodle" its just other areas that DK lacks in that's the problem. Its not much, just some things that we need to better stand our ground and control fights the way that I think ZOS wants the class to specialize in (like the templar house).

Now for my suggestions (or dreams) for DK skill and passive changes.

I think that dragonblood should give a flat heal that increases by a percentage based on your missing health. Give it the same scaling a executes. This way, battle spirit doesn't hurt as much. I'd also like the heal to scale off magicka. Have it relatively weak at max health but stronger than breath of life at low due to it only healing yourself. Dragonblood will keep its niche as an anti-execute skill and still be equally affected by battle spirit like other skills.

Increase the radius of ash cloud and its morphs by 1-2 meters. Also, give cinder storm major evasion with a cast at feet (as others have said).

Major expedition on wings, for 4 seconds, instead of chains. It makes more sense to me, flapping wings to move faster, and is more versatile than having it on a gap closer.

Perhaps adding physical resistance with scaled armor, sense we are seen as the tankier class (I don't think we are).

There may be other things that could help DKs and some of my suggestions may not be the best but lets discuss.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

dragon nights are fine the new changes are fine just don't give them magic gap closers and they will stay balanced and fair

Armitas · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

dragon nights are fine the new changes are fine just don't give them magic gap closers and they will stay balanced and fair

What if I told you....they already had magicka gap closers...

RoamingRiverElk · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

dragon nights are fine the new changes are fine just don't give them magic gap closers and they will stay balanced and fair

What if I told you....they already had magicka gap closers...

But at least they don't work!

.
.
.
...or did they fix them? I really can't believe that they would have done that...

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

dragon nights are fine the new changes are fine just don't give them magic gap closers and they will stay balanced and fair

What if I told you....they already had magicka gap closers...

But at least they don't work!

.
.
.
...or did they fix them? I really can't believe that they would have done that...

omg do they ???? damn!

well don't give them major expedition in any way they will be OP but apart from that they are fine

Armitas · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

dragon nights are fine the new changes are fine just don't give them magic gap closers and they will stay balanced and fair

What if I told you....they already had magicka gap closers...

But at least they don't work!

.
.
.
...or did they fix them? I really can't believe that they would have done that...

omg do they ???? damn!

well don't give them major expedition in any way they will be OP but apart from that they are fine

What if I told you...they have major expedition.... (well technically.. and by technically I mean sort of with much lols and dissapoint)

WhiteNoiseMaker · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

Obsidian shard will not cc a boss and if you are healing you should be getting helping hands from igneous shield. If you are dpsing in stamina then there is something wrong with your build if you are needing this for Stam return. If you are PvP healing you should be laying down your hots and carpeting with blessing of restoration, not casting a CC for a minor single target heal on someone. Burst healing is for Templar BOL, we DK's should be running the base heals underneath and keeping the hots up for spell power cure.

I will explain further.

I don't expect ObShard to CC a boss. I do however expect that it will assist in a moving boss-battle like I described, where the group is huddled tightly and the healer is spamming heals over the group to mitigate the damage from the boss. This is because while ObShard doesn't do a lot a of damage, it still counts as a damaging power for purposes of proc's like Bahraha's Curse. With a long range of 28m, ObShard can consistently be fired off, proc'ing a set bonus like Bahraha's Curse (which in my case will generate the DOT and HOT, as well as the heal from ObShard. Any fraction of healing that I can help deal while also doing damage at distance during a moving-boss-battle is a bonus from a teamwork point of view. Since I am also still range-taunting with Inner Fire, the extra Stam boosts are good for keeping my block up during the moments when the bosses are directly sending damage my way.

When dealing with mobs and pvp circumstances, I will benefit from the CC of ObShard, proc' the 70% Snare of Bahraha's Curse, thus gaining the aforementioned DOT and HOT, while still assisting the burden of healing. In PVP particularly, I'm not a dedicated healer, I'm a support offrole tank. That means I'm CCing with powers like Fossilize, Choking Talons, and yes- Obsidian Shard; and I am also casting heals like Mutagen and Healing Springs. Blessing of Restoration is a poor choice for an offtank to utilize as the high magicka cost is not cost-effective, whereas ObShard fills a dual-purpose role in a teamwork environment.

I am pretty sure however that you're not going concede that my uses for the power make it valid because you simply don't want to admit the power has any utility. I really don't care. Just realize that your QQ-ing about the power doesn't make for a compelling argument and that right now you should providing feedback on the current state of changes on PTS, not griping about changes you want to see that are unrelated to PTS.

BlackMadara · May 2016

Posted this in another thread concerning battle spirit and health based skills.

I just think a flat heal value is needed, maybe something like 10% or 20% max health increased by missing HP? So 20k HP would give a 2k or 4k base heal, cut in half by battle spirit, increasing by up to 300% to 8k or 16k heal at dangerously low HP. So a build with high dmg and normal health (20k) in cyrodil has a strong heal in execute range comparable to, lets say, a breath of life. What do you think?

This has dragonblood perform similar but opposite to an execute.

Natas013 · May 2016

susmitds wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I get you dont get to use the 7% bonus to fire damage racial passive. BUT.... You get to double dip into mighty and thamaturge for your ardent flame abilities. + things like weapon enchants, valkyns skoria proc, STANDARD OF MIGHT etc still get boosted by dunmer passive. Overall you should see a HUGE net DPS gain with this change.

I still cant comprehend why dunmer stam dks are complaining. Changes are BOOSTING YOUR OVERALL DPS.

And NO. Dunmer stam DK was NEVER fantastic. Its a sub par choice. Kinda like making a khajit tank. Best stam DKs in order imo are;

1. Redguard
2. Imperial
3. Bosmer/dunmer

Dunmer DKs for stamina were never a fantastic choice for DKs unless you intend on only playing without CP on the no-cp campaign.

They finally fixed the Khajiit passive it seems in the PTS.
Now, the DPS gain from 8% crit is 4% minimum. It can be boosted upto 10% by increasing crit damage. The gain of DPS from 10% extra stamina is 2.2%. So statistically if the Khajiit passive works when DB goes live, Khajiit would be the best race.

So useful racial benefits are:

Khajiit : 4-10% extra DPS, 10% stamina regen at all times
Redguard : 2.2% extra DPS, 9% stamina regen in combat, Adrenaline rush which is equivalent to 7-14% stamina regen depending on how often you manage to proc it
Bosmer : 0.67% extra DPS, 21% stamina regen at all times
Imperial : 2.2 extra DPS, 10% more health

In the end, the overall result is not very different, regardless of class choice. If you are struggling with sustain, go Bosmer. You can balance DPS and sustain with Redguard. If your health is an issue go Imperial. If you can manage both health and sustain, and want to squeeze the best numbers out of your Stamina DK go Khajiit.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from man but a khajiit DK outfitted exactly the same as an imperial DK. The imperial will hit harder because he has more Stam = more dps. Just because crit is "increased from khajiit passive" does not mean more if the imperial is already around 50% plus popping a potion if need be. A crit is just double the non crit damage. At least that's what I thought. Could be wrong though.

Unless you have a different theory?

1) Stamina scaling DPS - Stamina scales with 1 dmg per at least 8 stamina for highest scaling direct attack types (0.128 scale) and usually like 1 dmg per 12 stamina for average direct attack types (0.084 scale). For DoTs it is the same for the highest scaling ones (0.128). But for the rest it is 1 per 16 stamina (0.064 scale).
Now consider a character without racial passives at 36k stamina. With Imperial/Redguard extra stamina of 10%, he gets 3600 extra stamina. With it he will get 3600/12 or 300 extra damage if he uses low scaling direct attacks and 3600/8 or 450 extra damage if he uses high scaling direct attacks. Now consider he is running 2 high scaling DoTs (like Poison Injection) and 1 weak DoT, and 1 DoT that is unaffected by stamina (like Poison status effect and enchantment procs). He gets 3600/8*2 + 3600/16 or 900 extra total damage on high scaling DoTs and 225 on low scaling DoTs. Now most high scaling DoTs have durations of 9 secs and most low scaling DoTs have durations of around 5 sec. Then you get total of 900/9 + 225/5 or 145 DoT damage per second.

Average DPS of maxed Stamina DK without any racial bonus to DPS- 33k per second

Bonus DPS from max stamina increase passives of Imperial/Redguard = 300+125 to 450+125 = 425 to 575 depending on relative scaling of skills in his rotations

Bonus in percentage increase of DPS = 425/33000*100 to 575/33000*100 = 1.29% to 1.75%

Now if someone uses all high scaling direct attacks and DoTs, then they can get a 2.2% increase at max

Increase in DPS by Imperial/Redguard = 1.28-2.20%

2) Scaling of DPS by critical hit chance - Critical hits can increase the damage of DPS by a flat 50% on top of all other damage increase mechanics. The increase percent of the damage can also be boosted. This is a linear mechanic and affects the final damage of the hit, essentially overriding all other mechanics.

So minimum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*50% = 4%

Now maximum critical damage bonus percentage for DKs = 50(base) + 19(7 legendary divides Shadow Mundus) + 25(Max Precise Strikes CP) + 30(Major Force) + 10(Minor Force) = 134%

So maximum DPS increase by 8% extra crit chance of Khajiit = 8*134% = 10.72%

Increase in DPS by Khajiit = 4-10.72%

@DUTCH_REAPER I think this will help you understand it.

You might have a point as far as racials go, but I see two major flaws in you argument as a whole. First off Redguard/Imperial can obtain a high enough crit to be nearly as effective as not as effective as Khajiit in that department. Secondly, and this is PvP specific, you can't crit on shields. Since everyone basically has hardened ward now, that nearly 11% bonus is moot. Just saying. If I'm repeating what others have said already, I apologize. I've not read to the end of this thread yet.

Can't see the awful visuals on the new stam morphs, as I'm on console, and I hope I never get too.

Oronell · May 2016

They should use something similar to the Eruption animation for Noxious Breath. Toxicity from Fire can be attributed to Sulfur. Just a suggestion.

Edit:
When sulfur is burned it produces a blue/violet flame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3rLLoyl93o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fv69ildQlc

Oronell · May 2016

Oronell wrote: »

They should use something similar to the Eruption animation for Noxious Breath. Toxicity from Fire can be attributed to Sulfur. Just a suggestion.

Sulfuric Acid is also highly corrosive. This would explain the added effect of Noxious Breath (Major Fracture). The new Searing Strike morph should also attribute its poisoning effect to SULFUR not "venom".

What is sulfur dioxide?

Sulfur dioxide is a colorless gas with a pungent and suffocating odor, similar to a just-struck match. It has an acidic taste and is a liquid when under pressure. Sulfur dioxide is formed when fuel containing sulfur, such as coal and oil, is burned. The chemical symbol for sulfur dioxide is SO2.

Most sulfur dioxide in the air comes from the burning of coal and oil at electric power plants. Other sources of sulfur dioxide in the air are industrial facilities that use coal or oil, petroleum refineries, cement manufacturing, metal processing, paper pulp manufacturing, and copper smelting. Trains, large ships, and some diesel equipment burn high sulfur fuel, which releases sulfur dioxide into the air. It can also be released into the air from volcanic eruptions.

Sulfur dioxide is used as a food preservative for some fruits and vegetables; as a disinfectant; for bleaching flour, fruit, grain, wood pulp, wool, textile fibers, wicker, gelatin, and glue; and for making other chemicals. It is also used in metal mining and refining, water treatment, and food processing. Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with precipitation, oxygen, and other substances in the atmosphere to form acid rain.

How might I be exposed to sulfur dioxide?
Sulfur dioxide is a common air pollutant found in most of the air in the United States. You can be exposed to sulfur dioxide outdoors mainly by breathing air that contains it. You are most likely to be exposed to sulfur dioxide in the summer, when the sun and hot temperatures react with pollution to form smog, causing government officials to issue air quality alerts. You can also be exposed to sulfur dioxide through natural pollution sources, such as plant decay and volcanoes.

Levels of sulfur dioxide in the air will be higher than normal near facilities that release sulfur dioxide through heavy industrial activities such as copper smelting or the burning or processing of coal and oil.

You can be exposed to sulfur dioxide at work if you work in facilities that produce sulfur dioxide as a by-product, such as copper smelting plants and electric power plants. You can also be exposed if you work in the manufacturing of sulfuric acid, paper, food preservatives, or fertilizers.

How can sulfur dioxide affect my health?
Short-term exposure to high levels of sulfur dioxide in the air can be life-threatening by causing breathing difficulties and obstructing airways, especially for people with lung disease. Long-term exposure to persistent levels of sulfur dioxide can cause chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and respiratory illness. It can also aggravate existing heart disease.

When sulfur dioxide reacts with other chemicals in the air to form tiny sulfate particles, these particles can gather in the lungs and cause increased respiratory problems and difficulty breathing. Long-term exposure to sulfate particles can cause respiratory disease and even premature death.

Prolonged industrial exposure to sulfur dioxide may decrease fertility in men and women.

Breathing sulfur dioxide can irritate the nose, throat, and lungs, and cause coughing and shortness of breath. Short-term exposure to sulfur dioxide can cause stomach pain, menstrual disorders, watery eyes, inhibition of thyroid function, loss of smell, headache, nausea, vomiting, fever, convulsions, and dizziness.

At work, direct contact with sulfur dioxide as a gas can irritate and burn the skin and eyes, with possible eye damage. Direct contact with sulfur dioxide as a liquid can cause frostbite. The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration has established safe levels of exposure to sulfur dioxide and standards for sampling air that might contain it.

Adults and children with asthma are sensitive to sulfur dioxide exposure, especially if they are active outdoors. Other people who are sensitive to sulfur dioxide are children, adults, and the elderly who have heart or lung disease.

For poisoning emergencies or questions about possible poisons, please contact your local poison control center at 1-800-222-1222.

This description is based on the information found in the Web links listed with this topic.
https://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=29

Armitas · May 2016

BlackMadara wrote: »

Posted this in another thread concerning battle spirit and health based skills.

I just think a flat heal value is needed, maybe something like 10% or 20% max health increased by missing HP? So 20k HP would give a 2k or 4k base heal, cut in half by battle spirit, increasing by up to 300% to 8k or 16k heal at dangerously low HP. So a build with high dmg and normal health (20k) in cyrodil has a strong heal in execute range comparable to, lets say, a breath of life. What do you think?

This has dragonblood perform similar but opposite to an execute.

I really like this and I think it's going to work because there are really two reasons that Dragon Blood is no longer a viable heal.

Battle Spirit
The power creep of 50% health executes as well as an enormous amount of spell and weapon power

It keeps the diminishing and increasing return mechanic, increases the the return by a scaling modifier to overcome battle spirit, and because it has a flat value at it's base it can be used to keep your health over the new 50% executes and above the large hits we now take.

InBedWithMySelf · May 2016

BlackMadara wrote: »

Posted this in another thread concerning battle spirit and health based skills.

I just think a flat heal value is needed, maybe something like 10% or 20% max health increased by missing HP? So 20k HP would give a 2k or 4k base heal, cut in half by battle spirit, increasing by up to 300% to 8k or 16k heal at dangerously low HP. So a build with high dmg and normal health (20k) in cyrodil has a strong heal in execute range comparable to, lets say, a breath of life. What do you think?

This has dragonblood perform similar but opposite to an execute.

Yes, Agreed, Please consider this change zenimax @ZOS_GinaBruno and all the other ZOS Staff

Ishammael · May 2016

DK changes still needed:
1. Restore Dragon Blood to original state.
2. Add major evasion to cinder storm.
3. Fix flappy flaps so that it actually works. Increase to six. Add major expedition to one of the morphs.
4. Rework inferno. Needs a DoT that scales in dmg over time. Add minor or major heroism.
5. Rework obsidian shield. Add ultimate gain when the shield goes down.
6. Rework health recovery passives. Needs to be some mechanic for passive ultimate gain based on damage taken. Scale that gain to be proportional with missing health.

DKs don't need an execute or extra damage. They need defense and improved ultimate gain to exploit their best passive. This gives them a risk/reward paradigm which is unique among the classes.

Armitas · May 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

3. Fix flappy flaps so that it actually works. Increase to six. Add major expedition to one of the morphs.

Yeah what is going on with that. I swear bow shots are going right through. Did they break it when they took meteor and double reflects off of it?

Recremen · May 2016

Oronell wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

They should use something similar to the Eruption animation for Noxious Breath. Toxicity from Fire can be attributed to Sulfur. Just a suggestion.

Sulfuric Acid is also highly corrosive. This would explain the added effect of Noxious Breath (Major Fracture). The new Searing Strike morph should also attribute its poisoning effect to SULFUR not "venom".

What is sulfur dioxide?
Sulfur dioxide is a colorless gas with a pungent and suffocating odor, similar to a just-struck match. It has an acidic taste and is a liquid when under pressure. Sulfur dioxide is formed when fuel containing sulfur, such as coal and oil, is burned. The chemical symbol for sulfur dioxide is SO2.

Most sulfur dioxide in the air comes from the burning of coal and oil at electric power plants. Other sources of sulfur dioxide in the air are industrial facilities that use coal or oil, petroleum refineries, cement manufacturing, metal processing, paper pulp manufacturing, and copper smelting. Trains, large ships, and some diesel equipment burn high sulfur fuel, which releases sulfur dioxide into the air. It can also be released into the air from volcanic eruptions.

Sulfur dioxide is used as a food preservative for some fruits and vegetables; as a disinfectant; for bleaching flour, fruit, grain, wood pulp, wool, textile fibers, wicker, gelatin, and glue; and for making other chemicals. It is also used in metal mining and refining, water treatment, and food processing. Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides react with precipitation, oxygen, and other substances in the atmosphere to form acid rain.

How might I be exposed to sulfur dioxide?
Sulfur dioxide is a common air pollutant found in most of the air in the United States. You can be exposed to sulfur dioxide outdoors mainly by breathing air that contains it. You are most likely to be exposed to sulfur dioxide in the summer, when the sun and hot temperatures react with pollution to form smog, causing government officials to issue air quality alerts. You can also be exposed to sulfur dioxide through natural pollution sources, such as plant decay and volcanoes.

Levels of sulfur dioxide in the air will be higher than normal near facilities that release sulfur dioxide through heavy industrial activities such as copper smelting or the burning or processing of coal and oil.

You can be exposed to sulfur dioxide at work if you work in facilities that produce sulfur dioxide as a by-product, such as copper smelting plants and electric power plants. You can also be exposed if you work in the manufacturing of sulfuric acid, paper, food preservatives, or fertilizers.

How can sulfur dioxide affect my health?
Short-term exposure to high levels of sulfur dioxide in the air can be life-threatening by causing breathing difficulties and obstructing airways, especially for people with lung disease. Long-term exposure to persistent levels of sulfur dioxide can cause chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and respiratory illness. It can also aggravate existing heart disease.

When sulfur dioxide reacts with other chemicals in the air to form tiny sulfate particles, these particles can gather in the lungs and cause increased respiratory problems and difficulty breathing. Long-term exposure to sulfate particles can cause respiratory disease and even premature death.

Prolonged industrial exposure to sulfur dioxide may decrease fertility in men and women.

Breathing sulfur dioxide can irritate the nose, throat, and lungs, and cause coughing and shortness of breath. Short-term exposure to sulfur dioxide can cause stomach pain, menstrual disorders, watery eyes, inhibition of thyroid function, loss of smell, headache, nausea, vomiting, fever, convulsions, and dizziness.

At work, direct contact with sulfur dioxide as a gas can irritate and burn the skin and eyes, with possible eye damage. Direct contact with sulfur dioxide as a liquid can cause frostbite. The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration has established safe levels of exposure to sulfur dioxide and standards for sampling air that might contain it.

Adults and children with asthma are sensitive to sulfur dioxide exposure, especially if they are active outdoors. Other people who are sensitive to sulfur dioxide are children, adults, and the elderly who have heart or lung disease.

For poisoning emergencies or questions about possible poisons, please contact your local poison control center at 1-800-222-1222.

This description is based on the information found in the Web links listed with this topic.
https://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=29

PLEASE yes. We don't need these gross new animations, the old ones were just fine. The stamina morph of the claw attack even already HAD a blue flame component to it! Why change??

Ishammael · May 2016

Armitas wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

3. Fix flappy flaps so that it actually works. Increase to six. Add major expedition to one of the morphs.

Yeah what is going on with that. I swear bow shots are going right through. Did they break it when they took meteor and double reflects off of it?

For more than a year, ranged attacks from stealth will go through wings. I also think that there is some sort a timer associated with reflect whereby if you get hit with a bunch at once even within the four projectile limit you will take damage.

Also, the debuffs from ranged attacks (e.g. heal debuffs from dark flare, DoT from bow attacks, etc.) Will hit you even if you reflect the projectile.