Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

Reorx_Holybeard

There was some confusion on costs so I just quickly checked. Only the v16 Potencies cost 2500gp. The rest sell for 30-111gp based on level. Rejera/Jehade are 111gp. Not a terrible price but I'm with most other people here in strongly disliking this system. Either go back to the current potency dropped runes or have them dropped and store bought.

I would have put the Essence stone as a vendor item...they are much more common and not worth terribly much anyways with the exception of the Hajeiko. I would have also done something about the relative uselessness of Ta/Jejota Aspect stones...I have 7 stacks on mules not doing or really worth anything.

Nestor

bunnytrix wrote: »

I too have a bad feeling about this decision and would like to know why, but the fact that you can now enchant items with lower level runes is obviously tied to the potency rune removal and the price of them from vendors.

This is not as bad as it seems. For example, the Glyphs that reduce the potion cool down are the same no matter what level you make, so there is no reason to use a high end glyph for something like this.

SickDuck

Nestor wrote: »

SantaOrc wrote: »

Up to now the quest always asked me for vr15 glyphes, which should have potency costs of 111g, am i wrong?

Low Level Potencies are around 100, they go up, and by the time you are at VR15/16 they cost around 2500 gold. I have not loaded the PTS yet so don't know exact prices.

v15 -111 gold
v16 - 2508 gold

SickDuck

Btw v15-16 potency runes can only be harvested in DLC areas so they are already unreachable for some people that way.

Nestor

SickDuck wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

SantaOrc wrote: »

Up to now the quest always asked me for vr15 glyphes, which should have potency costs of 111g, am i wrong?

Low Level Potencies are around 100, they go up, and by the time you are at VR15/16 they cost around 2500 gold. I have not loaded the PTS yet so don't know exact prices.

v15 -111 gold
v16 - 2508 gold

I saw that and edited my earlier posts. At least it makes the Writs somewhat doable now.

Astanphaeus

SickDuck wrote: »

Btw v15-16 potency runes can only be harvested in DLC areas so they are already unreachable for some people that way.

And if you bought them on the current market, you would spend much less than these prices.

ishilb14_ESO

Where did my enchanting mats go? They all disappeared from my crafting bag.

Epona222

ishilb14_ESO wrote: »

Where did my enchanting mats go? They all disappeared from my crafting bag.

Did you create a new character? It's a crafting bag bug.

EDIT: It has been clarified that this is a bug with using template characters on the PTS and therefore will not happen on live.

BergisMacBride

I just spent a little over an hour on PTS testing roaming around Wrothgar. My char is Master Enchanter with all passives maxed except for Hidden Eye. He also has the 10% champ bonus to double harvesting.

I did the daily enchanting writ and received an Enchanter Survey. It was six "Dual Runestones". Including this, I harvested a total of 50 runes during my time today. Here are the results from my harvesting:

Aspect Stones:

• Ta - 43
• Jejota - 16
• Denata - 5
• Rekuta - 4
• Kuta - 0

Essence Stones:

• Makko - 16
• Deni - 12
• Oko - 11
• Makderi - 4
• Deteri - 3
• Taderi - 2
• Oru - 2
• Makkoma - 2
• Okori - 1
• Denima - 1

No potency runes dropped, as is expected and currently intended. I did loot 5 Truly Superb glyphs from mobs and received a Superb one from the writ. Deconning these netted 1 Rejera, 1 Repora, 1 Ta and 1 Rakeipa. From the regular runestones, I would receive anywhere from 2-4 glyphs and would always loot at least one Essence and one Aspect stone. I'm not sure if the times I received 3 or 4 was due solely to the Plentiful Harvest passive or RNG, so I will have to test it without the passive I guess.

Just putting this out there so everyone can see what harvesting is like currently on the PTS. I will probably do some additional testing runs and can update these numbers if desired. As I already stated, I'm with the vast majority here who thinks removal of Potency rune harvesting is an exceptionally bad idea.

One last thing regarding vendor prices for the potency stones - the lowest level stones (Pora and Jode) sell for 30g each - I know it's been a long time since I was a poor lowbie starting out, but those prices seem abit steep for someone just starting the game and wanting to get started in enchanting.

Edit to add: I did receive a Jehade potency rune in a Hireling mail.

StopDropAndBear

Is the rune change just to cut down on Node clutter? That's the only reason I can think of for it, because our current system seems perfectly fine to me. When Orsinium dropped, I was frustrated at the drop rates for the v16 Potency runes (or lack thereof), but this seems to have been fixed with Thieves Guild, so I really can't see the reason behind this.

STEVIL

OK so my quick feedback on the potency thing.

I suspect that it may be being done bc they fear that on launch there will be a LOT of folks who suddenly have gear advanced characters and who dont have the needed and possibly WELL AHEAD OF THEIR CURRENT LEVEL potency stones. Personally, i think the more likely "mat crisis" will be the 10x for cp160 mats for armor and weapons if that stays.

However, ZOS, if you continue with the current plan, I suggest you cut out the unnecessary bookkeeping and just get rid of potency stones.

Go up to table.
Choose essense and aspect
pull down menu for level of glyph
Cost box pops up
When i pay the gold, glyph is created.

WHY have us get, store, select etc a stone which we only got by buying them?
just charge us the price at the table.

AT DB LAUNCH pay everyone off in gold for whatever stones they have or have in their bank.
AT DB LAUNCH cancel all guild store potency and email back as if cancelled the amount of gold (or just let them go do it next time they guild bank.

The middle man of paying a merchant to then turn around and put it into the table is wasted time and effort.

Overall, not thrilled with the change but if you do it do it in a way that makes it more efficient not less.

Ourorboros

I was just reading patch notes, when I saw this:

Potency runestones no longer need to be harvested, with every tier of both polarities now available for purchase from any enchanting vendor, including Alliance Point enchanting vendors.

I'm not surprised to find a massive thread from angry Enchanters reviling this change. This ranks with making monster collectibles unbankable as WORST changes ever to the game. Sad to say that despite enormous feedback against the collectibles change, it went into the game just as stated in patch notes. So I won't be surprised when the same thing happens to potency nodes. It seems that someone who doesn't actually play the game is making a poor decision, based on reasons no one here can fathom. Way to go, zos, keep pissing on your players.

smacx250

Dagonthir wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

This sounds like a great idea to me!

Except if you look at the current price of aspect stones, a less disruptive exchange rate would be more like 5000 Ta = 1 Kuta (at least on NA PC)!

smacx250

SickDuck wrote: »

Btw v15-16 potency runes can only be harvested in DLC areas so they are already unreachable for some people that way.

What about Cyrodiil? I thought that they could be harvested in any scaled zone?

Zyle

smacx250 wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Btw v15-16 potency runes can only be harvested in DLC areas so they are already unreachable for some people that way.

What about Cyrodiil? I thought that they could be harvested in any scaled zone?

I could be 100% wrong on this but I can legitimately only remember Aspect Runes in Cyro.

crazmadsci

I know the community here as a whole can agree with everything I say because most if not all have already said it. In my own experiences players as a whole like free things. Crafters like harvesting and many players find it therapeutic to spend an hour or so of their time to farm around. In many situations most recently nirnhoned has been significantly nerffed in craglorn drop rate and many farmers are significantly frustrated. This is just another example that will drive the casual player or players who work hard to afford the potion use or new major sets of gear another nail in the coffin.

I have been in numerous Teamspeak channels for over half a dozen guilds and this is one of the most heavily discussed topics on the fact that you can no longer harvest potency. Many players are concerned on the raising cost of a full new gear set and many theorycrafters or elite players will pay 500K-3 million in gear a DLC. This cost will effectively be equal to 30-35K difference in cost for a champion rank 160 full gear set. In situations such as myself that is roughly equal to about a 100K additional cost for a full set of gear for just my main character alone due to having a heal/DPS, DPS, and PVP set of armor tricked out.

Overall I am very happy with the fact that enchanting nodes will contain aspect and essence due to how rare making enchantments for your self as a new player actually is. However forcing players to pay for their potency not just giving it as an option to buy one if you can't far it is a crazy situation.

I am so thankful that over the past weekend got all 8 toons to max in enchanting 50 before this change occurred because i'm sure the market is already feeling the fear and the hoarders have begun.

I am also worried that crafters trying to sell their product will lose money since trying to even sell an enchantment you barely get material value and only get the gold if you actually farmed it yourself. The entire economy will have to adapt and acknowledge the rising cost of enchanting.

Although maybe my little conspiracy theory in my head is telling me that they just want us all to use poisons anyways.

Daraugh

Well, poisons are in the store....

BlueViolet

SantaOrc wrote: »

At the end of the day you may have spend the time you saved for farming those extra runes to earn a little gold and everything works out fine.

I can't speak for others, but this is exactly what I was referring to in my earlier post. I DO NOT want to have to go out and earn gold, kill things for gold, do quests for gold and so on, when I don't have the time or am too tired to play intensively, and would rather just peacefully run around and collect crafting mats in the playing time that I do have. Collecting is something which I enjoy greatly. I don't count it as time wasting. I DON'T want to "save time" by buying runes for gold. I WANT to collect them. All of them.

Essentially, with this logic, you've added a middleman. Assuming I'm a character with next to no runes and no gold, instead of wandering around, harvesting nodes and creating an enchantment, I have to wander around, collect aspect and essence runes, go and kill some creatures and / or do some quests to get some gold, then go and buy some potency runes from an enchanter, and then craft my enchantment.

Where did I save time in that scenario?

Just for the record, even after two years of playing, the maximum amount of gold I have is 20k. I make things for others, at no cost to them, using my own mats. I don't do dungeons and stuff so I buy a lot of motif pages, which leaves me short on gold. I scrape by and don't complain about it, because I choose not to farm for gold. I don't want to be forced into doing that to create an enchantment. Really. That's ludicrous.
Crafting has always been billed as a big thing in this game, and it has been. It's fun and enjoyable to collect and craft for those of us who really love doing that.

Should I stop helping others out, or start charging them for making things for them, just because ZOS has made a truly terrible decision in this regard?

ETA - The reason I never took any money or anything from people for helping them out with crafting stuff, is because I could always go out and collect more. For nothing. Now, I'll have to pay. If I don't want to do that, then I can't craft an enchantment unless my hireling sends me the potency rune I need, or I decon an enchantment. Either way has me crossing fingers, toes, legs and whatever else in the hope that the potency rune I am in need of, drops.
I don't see the good in that.

staracino_ESO

smacx250 wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

This sounds like a great idea to me!

Except if you look at the current price of aspect stones, a less disruptive exchange rate would be more like 5000 Ta = 1 Kuta (at least on NA PC)!

You have to consider: If only Ta are dropping, how long should one person reasonably spend harvesting to get one? My quote puts it at 120 harvests will get you a Kuta if you don't spend any of the Ta. For reference, that would normally get you over 400 raw materials from any ore, wood or plant nodes, which in turn should mathematically get you about 2 gold tempers. What I am saying here is that Kuta are already rare, and my suggested system would still make them ~twice as rare as other gold mats, which is fine because you do not need as many Kuta to make a full set of equipment. (12-14 Kuta vs. 64-72 gold tempers total) If you think more Ta's should be needed, fine, but not 5000. If you are talking full gear requirements, it should be 600 to be square, but that seems like too many.

Astanphaeus

Zyle wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Btw v15-16 potency runes can only be harvested in DLC areas so they are already unreachable for some people that way.

What about Cyrodiil? I thought that they could be harvested in any scaled zone?

I could be 100% wrong on this but I can legitimately only remember Aspect Runes in Cyro.

You can find any of them in Cyro an they are scaled like the DLCs, so they are technically available to everyone now, though farming Cyro is more anoyying than farming Hew's Bane or Wrothgar.

Astanphaeus

I've already started hording my Reporas and Itades. I can't imagine this change wouldn't make the market value increase by about 500g.

scorpiodog

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Enchanting. We’ve removed the Potency Runestones from nodes, and put them on the Enchanting vendors instead. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Is it easy to tell where to get these now?
• Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?
• How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

This would make me less likely to do writs. The reason I do writs now is I use mats that I find while exploring to produce goods to sell. If I instead have to buy my materials it becomes that much less profitable to do writs.

Enchanting writs are already 2nd lowest (lowest is potions) on my "to do" list because of how complicated it is. I need to consult my notes whenever I do an enchantment writ.

maboleth

PLEASE make potency runes available in the wild, as of now, in the main game. Their removal ruins the immersion, because:

1. Where do merchants get these? Harvest them secretly? How and where? Or maybe do they get them from deconstructing the glyphs? How many glyphs they need to take down to obtain a single potency rune? And with all these different potency runes out there, it would take them a lot of effort to extract and would have to be quite pricey as a result.

2. It makes no sense to have to search for the other two, while this one must be bought. Where's the point? Makes enchantment more a commercial thing than a craft.

3. This would also ruin writs. Crafting everything yourself adds a value and feels nice. You don't have to, but it gives you freedom to know you did everything by yourself with a random element with what you'll find in the wild.

By all means, make them available to merchants, I have no problem with that - whoever wants to go that way, well, go. But leave this option, to obtain them in the wild, for us who actually pay attention to details, rpg and lore.

Elsonso

Ourorboros wrote: »

I'm not surprised to find a massive thread from angry Enchanters reviling this change. This ranks with making monster collectibles unbankable as WORST changes ever to the game. Sad to say that despite enormous feedback against the collectibles change, it went into the game just as stated in patch notes. So I won't be surprised when the same thing happens to potency nodes. It seems that someone who doesn't actually play the game is making a poor decision, based on reasons no one here can fathom. Way to go, zos, keep pissing on your players.

I would be very interested to see if a CM, or a system designer, pops into this thread to explain what the thinking and reasoning was behind this. I am not going to hold my breath, though. This is one of those decisions where they know best and our job is to enjoy the ride.

smacx250

staracino_ESO wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

This sounds like a great idea to me!

Except if you look at the current price of aspect stones, a less disruptive exchange rate would be more like 5000 Ta = 1 Kuta (at least on NA PC)!

You have to consider: If only Ta are dropping, how long should one person reasonably spend harvesting to get one? My quote puts it at 120 harvests will get you a Kuta if you don't spend any of the Ta. For reference, that would normally get you over 400 raw materials from any ore, wood or plant nodes, which in turn should mathematically get you about 2 gold tempers. What I am saying here is that Kuta are already rare, and my suggested system would still make them ~twice as rare as other gold mats, which is fine because you do not need as many Kuta to make a full set of equipment. (12-14 Kuta vs. 64-72 gold tempers total) If you think more Ta's should be needed, fine, but not 5000. If you are talking full gear requirements, it should be 600 to be square, but that seems like too many.

If an exchange were implemented I don't know what the exchange rate should be - I was reflecting upon the current rate that they trade at in guild traders. Your calculation of 120 to 1 and the current trading rate of 5000 to 1 illustrate a substantial discontinuity in the market conditions for Ta vs Kuta that would occur if such an exchange were implemented. For example, would we expect to see Ta trading for 65g (7700g / 120), or Kuta trading for 187g (1.5g * 120), instead of the current 1.5g and 7700g, respectively? I suspect somewhere in between - but probably far from where they currently are since the market price would be tied together by roughly a 120:1 ratio.

Pangnirtung

With no explanation from ZOS as to why they have done this one has to believe that there is a financial motive behind this.

ZOS, the sentiment here is overwhelmingly against NOT having potency runes in the wild. Please listen to YOUR customers.

Elsonso

Pangnirtung wrote: »

With no explanation from ZOS as to why they have done this one has to believe that there is a financial motive behind this.

ZOS, the sentiment here is overwhelmingly against NOT having potency runes in the wild. Please listen to YOUR customers.

I'm telling you, this is about CP 160 enchantments and increasing the cost to make them. I think this is all about raising the bar on crafting. The price of Itade and Repora are over 2500 gold. It is probably coming out of the combat team. If that is the case, no changes will be made. Wrobel does not work that way.

mApplinator

I'll just chime in to agree with what it seems like everybody is saying. Being ABLE to buy the potency runes isn't such a bad idea, but why make that the ONLY way to obtain them? Nothing else in crafting works that way.

Except for one exception I can think of. Merethic Restorative Resin.

It's not exactly a crafting material, but it is a good example of what happens when ZOS puts an 'ingredient' out there that's not obtainable any other way and has a fixed price. Glass motif fragment prices dropped really quickly, but the resin cost remains unchanged. It essentially makes selling glass motif chapters a waste of time, because most don't sell for what it costs to make them (even the prized Glass Staves Chapter now only sells for around 25K on PC|NA). If this item was obtainable some other way, and could be sold at player determined prices, the balance would remain. That's how an economy works, and it keeps the game interesting.

If you want to improve enchanting - you could start with sorting/displaying those potency runes differently, so I don't have to memorise the names, or use trial and error to find the one for the level I want. And shorten the time it takes to make a single rune. It's cool the first few times, but nothing else makes me /facepalm more than remembering how long it takes to make a full set of glyphs when I make new gear for my char.

staracino_ESO

My dear Developers,

I once again implore you to revisit the levy that has been placed upon myself for this quarter. I admit that I am a licensed enchanter residing in Tamriel. But circumstances have changed, and the business that was once profitable, is now just a drain on my income.

A few months ago, enchanters would find the base components of glyphs in the wild and, using various ingredients and tools, craft the glyph with the desired mystical powers. Because of this, enchanters only competed with other enchanters, since most people did not want to pay a vendor for basic crafting components. Prices for the glyphs could be set at a friendly meeting of three or four enchanters, and a fine profit could be made. As the right of the crown, a hefty levy for allowing us to operate could be assessed.

But now this has all changed. Enchanters now just buy a rune with the desired level assigned to it. A glyph is just a simple gem that anyone can craft by finding one rune node and spending some gold.

Seems simple, doesn't it? Well, this has caused a collapse of the market. Instead of the price for an enchantment being set on a rune-by-rune basis, all of the enchanters of Tamriel have to compete with vendors. An NPC in Daggerfall can harvest 10 potency runes and sell them to a traveling merchant, who brings them to Enchanting suppliers everywhere and sells them in the marketplace, at a price much higher than the price set by the players.

All this competition means that I now make just a few gold over the cost my materials. And this profit does not cover the levy your office places on me. Unless your office allows the collection of potency runes, you must reduce the levy to allow me to stay in business. I will be forced to sell my home of twenty years and take up another profession, perhaps tutoring some merchant's son.

Eagerly waiting your response,

Everyone


Not really my argument here, but I thought it would be amusing to alter this a little.

BergisMacBride

I remember when IC came out, the only place you could really get Repora and Itade was through either through grinding IC\sewers or on guild stores selling them from the same source. They were expensive and in great demand. Even so, I was ok with this as it was player driven and through the player run economy.

This proposed change essentially takes the player element out of it, which is why we're so against it. That, and I want my pretty blue runestones back!