Official Feedback Thread for Poison-Making

Denidil

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

The pure negative effect potions appear much stronger than the drain potions now. in fact drain potions seem almost useless.

tooltips for ravage stam still read 30% so i suspect the patch note is a typo and it was actually reducing it by 60% and they just fixed that.

If you read the patch notes it says it's a known issue that drain poisons are only half as effective as intended. They are currently only 30% when they should be 60%, and I don't know how you think anything is stronger then a 30 or 60% cost increase in PvP.

Let me tweet at gina to see what is the right stat.

Ajax_22

Denidil wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

The pure negative effect potions appear much stronger than the drain potions now. in fact drain potions seem almost useless.

tooltips for ravage stam still read 30% so i suspect the patch note is a typo and it was actually reducing it by 60% and they just fixed that.

If you read the patch notes it says it's a known issue that drain poisons are only half as effective as intended. They are currently only 30% when they should be 60%, and I don't know how you think anything is stronger then a 30 or 60% cost increase in PvP.

Let me tweet at gina to see what is the right stat.

The patch notes were very clear. Known issue: drains are supposed to be 60% but are currently only 30%.

Denidil

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

The pure negative effect potions appear much stronger than the drain potions now. in fact drain potions seem almost useless.

tooltips for ravage stam still read 30% so i suspect the patch note is a typo and it was actually reducing it by 60% and they just fixed that.

If you read the patch notes it says it's a known issue that drain poisons are only half as effective as intended. They are currently only 30% when they should be 60%, and I don't know how you think anything is stronger then a 30 or 60% cost increase in PvP.

Let me tweet at gina to see what is the right stat.

The patch notes were very clear. Known issue: drains are supposed to be 60% but are currently only 30%.

She replied, you are correct. But they have heard our feedback (about it being OP at 60%) and passed it on.

Khamira

Guys, PLEAAASE sort those ducking reagents alphabeticaly FFS!

UGHHH... >___<

staracino_ESO

I do not have access to the PTS, but am interested in how dilution affects the poisons this time.
Could some kind soul please craft and take a pic of the following and post them here?

1) A poison with 3 drain effects, 1 being drain health (restore health).

2) A poison with 3 non-drain effects, 1 being ravage health

3) A poison with 3 effects, with at least 1 drain and 1 non-drain effect

4) A poison with only Drain Health (restore health)

5) A poison with only Ravage Health

6) A poison with only Drain Magicka

7) A poison with only Ravage Magicka

8) A poison with any 2 effects on it, but only 2.

Pretty please and thank you.

LinearParadox

I will echo what I've heard so many times here already: "Drain" potions are messed up on principle.
POTIONS give you positive effects.
POISONS give the enemy negative effects.
The idea that you can craft poisons that do both is not only absurd, but also unbalanced in nature. They will either be too strong/last too long and be oppressive and unbalanced, or so short/weak that they're essentially pointless. I submit my vote that they be removed entirely, and this is coming from someone that originally thought the idea would work wonderfully for some of his builds, but upon further inspection realized the truth of the situation.
Additionally, as things currently stand, 'Drain' poisons are unequivocally better than 'damage' poisons, which is not only non-nonsensical, but as numerous other players have pointed out it only perpetuates the divide between 'good' reagents and 'bad' reagents, rather than giving each of them a value for different applications. Here you have a PERFECT opportunity to breath new life into the crafting system, economy, build diversity, and the game in general and instead your implementation of poison crafting threatens to harm it.
Poisons do NOT need to have the diversity of effects they do. Potions don't. There is no way to use a negative effect in a reagent in a potion to a positive effect, why does there have to be a way to use a positive effect of a reagent in a poison to a negative effect?
PLEASE, consider how many players have expressed the same sentiment.

Other than that, I will say the effects are nicely varied, and with the recent patch properly introducing the 'dilution effect', they seem to be much better balanced. (With the exception of 60% cost increase, that's absurd.)

It seems to be shaping up that
Enchantments = Reliable, routine procs, moderate effects and moderate diversity with some interesting synergies with traits.
Poisons = Less reliable with an RNG to proc, longer cooldown, but with a wider array of effects and comparatively slightly more punishing effects and debuffs to the target.
I like that. Nice options, very interesting.

Also, despite what other players may suggest, I am EXTREMELY against any kind of quick-slot for poisons or anything that allows equipping/un-equipping of poisons in combat. While it would be nice in a way, and interesting, in PvP it would inevitably come down to 'managing' your poison cooldowns, hot-swapping depending on who you're fighting, cycling your weapon enchants while you poisons were on CD, and more BS micro-managing min-maxing DPS-racing tedious skill-gapping nonsense and we don't need anything more like that in PvP -.-
OUTSIDE of combat... that's still a bit dicey but... honestly if you don't give 'em the chance to change em, someone will just create an addon or something that'll let em swap at the touch of a button/macro anyway so... go ahead I suppose lol.

KenaPKK

These things scare me silly for PvP. Solo PvP will be borderline impossible without some seriouse retuning or purge spam.

Question: can you swap to your back bar, apply a poison to someone there, swap back to your front bar, and still use the enchantment on your front bar weapon?

Ajax_22

KenaPKK wrote: »

These things scare me silly for PvP. Solo PvP will be borderline impossible without some seriouse retuning or purge spam.

Question: can you swap to your back bar, apply a poison to someone there, swap back to your front bar, and still use the enchantment on your front bar weapon?

Yes, or you can swap to your back bar apply poison A then swap to your front bar and apply poison B.

Denidil

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I do not have access to the PTS, but am interested in how dilution affects the poisons this time.
Could some kind soul please craft and take a pic of the following and post them here?

1) A poison with 3 drain effects, 1 being drain health (restore health).

2) A poison with 3 non-drain effects, 1 being ravage health

3) A poison with 3 effects, with at least 1 drain and 1 non-drain effect

4) A poison with only Drain Health (restore health)

5) A poison with only Ravage Health

6) A poison with only Drain Magicka

7) A poison with only Ravage Magicka

8) A poison with any 2 effects on it, but only 2.

Pretty please and thank you.

http://imgur.com/a/oacv0 (with bonus Drain-over-time vs Damage-over-time)

WhiteNoiseMaker

Speaking to some of the initial thread questions, I think that the new poison crafting has not been 'open' enough. In my admittedly limited time in PTS, I still have not found any poison reagents. Nor have I found much documentation about crafting poisons. If it's going to be part of the Alchemy overhaul to make this crafting skill more desirable and useful, it should have more obvious meta-knowledge made available to the players as they explore the DLC.

staracino_ESO

Denidil wrote: »

http://imgur.com/a/oacv0 (with bonus Drain-over-time vs Damage-over-time)

You are the actual best!

staracino_ESO

So after reviewing the sample poisons that Denidil so graciously provided, I must say that I am fairly satisfied with how dilution affects drain poisons. I am speaking to the durations, not the values. I am not sure how the numbers will play out.

It seems that if you want an effective 3-trait poison, you will need to use the negative effects, and if you want drains to be effective, you will need to stick to 1-trait poisons. This seems pretty decent. Again, I do not know if the values are balanced yet.

What do the rest of you think?

leepalmer95

Still think those 30% increased cost are going to be Op.

There going to be a must now for duels as well, simply switch psn to whatever build your going to duel next...

potirondb16_ESO

Actually Poison should not hit pvp at all, or Snakeblood should prevent them to be effective on you. Drain as probably been upgraded to fix unlimited ressource management but still, noone should be killed because someone is slotting a poison like that.

I'm already seeing it coming on my Sorc, Drain Stamina, /Shield, /wait, / Fear / out of stamina can't cc break shield down / sweet dream...

Poison is going to kill fair fight in cyrodill that's for sure. (before someone tell me it will still be fair because you can use poison too, just saying fair is not about fair at that point. Fair is about fighting a Dk, well I fight a Dk, I don't fight a frighting master debuffer against whom I will need to stop relying on stamina ..., just to be clear, within Cyrodill poison need to be ban)

No biological weapon in Cyrodill, for the sake of it !

Lava_Croft

I'll just echo this once again for visibility: Why on earth do poisons have positive effects for the person using said poisons?

SoulScream

I was wondering what others thought about Azura NA being a non CP camp also being a non poison camp. Would ZOS even consider it?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I'll just echo this once again for visibility: Why on earth do poisons have positive effects for the person using said poisons?

Magic. We do have weirder things in-game...

kevlarto_ESO

I don't know if this has been covered did a little digging might have over looked it.

do different poison effects stack ? how many poisons can you be poisoned with at the same time ?
Since purge removes only 2 effects, are we still going to be poisoned with other poisons still on us, I can see some major abuse of the poisons, and really sucking the fun out of pvp, I have tried to test them on the pts, good luck finding anyone doing anything in cyrodiil. Me and a friend did a little testing but not enough to really get a feel for a large battle.

wish the devs were a little more hands on and would have some pvp events on the pts, so we could see how some of this stuff works in an environment a little closer to the live server.

Ajax_22

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I don't know if this has been covered did a little digging might have over looked it.

do different poison effects stack ? how many poisons can you be poisoned with at the same time ?
Since purge removes only 2 effects, are we still going to be poisoned with other poisons still on us, I can see some major abuse of the poisons, and really sucking the fun out of pvp, I have tried to test them on the pts, good luck finding anyone doing anything in cyrodiil. Me and a friend did a little testing but not enough to really get a feel for a large battle.

wish the devs were a little more hands on and would have some pvp events on the pts, so we could see how some of this stuff works in an environment a little closer to the live server.

Different poison effects do stack, and you could theoretically have every single poison effect on you at the same time.

Denidil

and now we get to see if 60% cost increase is indeed OP

Ajax_22

Denidil wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

The pure negative effect potions appear much stronger than the drain potions now. in fact drain potions seem almost useless.

tooltips for ravage stam still read 30% so i suspect the patch note is a typo and it was actually reducing it by 60% and they just fixed that.

If you read the patch notes it says it's a known issue that drain poisons are only half as effective as intended. They are currently only 30% when they should be 60%, and I don't know how you think anything is stronger then a 30 or 60% cost increase in PvP.

Let me tweet at gina to see what is the right stat.

The patch notes were very clear. Known issue: drains are supposed to be 60% but are currently only 30%.

She replied, you are correct. But they have heard our feedback (about it being OP at 60%) and passed it on.

Yeah, we see how well that worked out.

Robbmrp

@Bel_Shezzar Could you explain why all of these are listed as Poisons when they are clearly both a Poison and a Potion and be completely separate from each other???

The game already had a ton of imbalance between classes/skills, so why now introduce a so called "Poison" that damages/debuffs the enemy and empowers/buffs the user?????

kaorunandrak

staracino_ESO wrote: »

So after reviewing the sample poisons that Denidil so graciously provided, I must say that I am fairly satisfied with how dilution affects drain poisons. I am speaking to the durations, not the values. I am not sure how the numbers will play out.

It seems that if you want an effective 3-trait poison, you will need to use the negative effects, and if you want drains to be effective, you will need to stick to 1-trait poisons. This seems pretty decent. Again, I do not know if the values are balanced yet.

What do the rest of you think?

the problem is that regardless of one trait or not the duration for health drains is ALWAYS .5 seconds. The duration's of all poisons should be normalized to some degree with a capped max duration and capped minimum there is already a hard cool down of 10 second on poisons. A 3/5/7 second duration per poison trait with the 10 second cool down on all poisons I think would be preferable. Further that 60% cost increase on ultimates/stamina/magika abilities needs to go, the original 30% was....fine, however the drain stamina and magika should not be granting a cost increase, it should either do damage, or to fit thematically drain the magika and stamina of the player you are fight and give it to you.

code65536

These poisons with positive effects to the user with still a substantial amount of negative effect to the target makes little sense and just makes the alchemy market even more lopsided than it already is.

(More detailed post here.)

WhiteNoiseMaker

Having experimented a bit more, I'm still a little disappointed that the new poison system mostly discards many of the older ingredients that had Negative traits in favor of 'new shinier' ingredients. I still don't understand what the point was in having Negative Potions, and had hoped that they would be translated over to Poisons but it looks like there were limitations that prevented this.

Honestly I still think the simplest solution (pun intended!) would have been to swap the item ref's for the current negative potions and turn them into poisons. Negative pots never truly had a use, and if ZOS can just run a script to find all negative pots and turn them into poisons, and make the old recipes become poison recipes, I think that'd be the ideal course of action.

STEVIL

Fyi from eso live poisons will go live at 60%

Lynx7386

Can someone explain how poisons are used/applied?

I figured they'd be applied to a weapon like an enchantment glyph, but the pictures always say something along the lines of "suppresses weapon enchantments while slotted". The 'while slotted' part is where I'm getting confused: Do the poisons take effect just by being on your active consumable hotbar slot, or what?

staracino_ESO

They go in a new slot next to each weapon (you get 1 poison slot for each bar). Your light/heavy attacks and weapon abilities have a 20% chance to apply the poison when they connect. This consumes 1 charge of the equipped poison (poisons are crafted 4/8/12/16 at a time depending on your chemistry skill).

Lynx7386

how many charges do poisons have?

Tevalaur

(removed, error was mine not update's)