IMPORTANT UPDATE! ZOS PLEASE reconsider your decision to no longer make FEMALE Light armor!

Lysette

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

That is exactly what confuses me as to why they didnt try to make those armors good enough for female bodies... It would also show that it has nothing to do with Zos not caring about the female community but probably that they just do everything too fast in releasing DLCS and costumes etc.

Im pretty sure if they hired a full team of designers to make crown store cosmetic items, that team would manage to put out quality items for both genders at then needed rate and make the company a huge pile of money.

Indeed, I like to buy stuff from the crown store, if it is quality work and if I still look female in that outfit. I like to change what I am wearing, not run around in the same outfit every day. I cannot understand their decision, when in the real world most fashion is created for women BECAUSE it makes businesses a whole lot more money than outfits for men do. Or look at the marketplace in second life, that is mainly female fashion what sells. It would sell here as well and make ZOS a lot of money.

notimetocare

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

For a lot of us, these "aesthetic issues" ARE game-breaking bugs!

Dont worry, I understood that and you know that.
And to make this clear:

You in Return Should Unterstand:
Game developers have a Priority List. Making The Game fully functional Is definetly a top Priority.

A weird shaped character Is ugly, we know that.
BUT: You can Play The Game, no matter how ugly your character Is.
The Most Important Is, the underlying mechanics are working, then we can Continue and make it Look great aswell.

Short:
REALLY Game breaking stuff Needs to be fixed First(stuff that makes The Game unplayable) before The Games Visual appearance gets polished.

Broken Game with beautiful, detailed character?
Or
Working Game with ugly character, which will be beautiful later on?

Your Choice.


@Lysette

Did you Play ESO since PC Beta?
The Beta was so incredibly buggy and horrible to Play (was a lag fest including countless Crashes, bugs, Visual bugs, many "pink boxes" etc.), Even Me as a really, really huge TES Fan Almost gave up on ESO.

What im trying to say is, The bugs you encounter now, are veeeery few. ESO Went a Long way, And it improved so much in this Short timr, I cant Even think of Anything to Compare.

Well, I am used to a better service, where stuff actually works and when new expansion are out, new bugs found are dealt with within days - you want to know, what it is?- EVE online.

I gave ESO 1 star out of 5 - 4 for content, minus 1 for blatant greediness, minus 1 for lack of communication minus 1 for a broken client, game crashes and other stuff - leaving 1 - and currently it is minus 1 due to discrimination, leaving zero stars, I do not have fun to play the game anymore, IF I would be able to play it without to run into bugs and crashes within short at all. But it has crashes, missing textures, annoying audio issues, unreliable skills and performance issues.

This game is currently a mess and I do not want to play it for at least a week or more - I am just fed up with this crap. I might give it another try, eventually, but for now I am done with it.

Bye. I have barely any of the issue you mentioned. So either your rig can't handle the game, or you are blowing the issues out of proportion.

Well, it could before they broke the client again. That all issues reappeared shows me that they are clueless what the actual flaw in their code is, they do trial and error and that is why it takes so long. Which supports again one of my other points, greediness, too greedy to hire staff, which is actually up for the job - to not be able to fix such an issue in that amount of time they got already is just ridiculous, they need better staff, but they won't go for it due to their greediness.

Edit: and that they unpinned the 64-bit client issues thread, shows how they deal with the truth, they hide it, when it is showing a lot of flaws. You must be blind, not to see the many issue this game has. Wonder when they will unpin the "client crash" thread, to hide the issues from the public.

'they broke the client' Assumptions, it is quite easy to break something adjusting and updating code. However, I have few issues with the game, so what is broken for you could be very specific.
Greed, always a laughable point. Everyone assumes greed and does not assume budget. Your bais is showing.
Unpinning a thread does not imply anything. You have to assume what is meant. Many reasons can exist, you would be lying not to admit that the forums population is full of vitriol. A toxic thread does nothing if they have the feedback they think they need. There are many reasons other than just 'lets hide the issue' to unpin the forum. Otherwise every feedback thread would be unpinned. The threads are not deleted, anyone can still find them and the issues. You act like there is some massive coverup.
If you are leaving the game, why are you still here crying about clothing?

You forget that I am still a subscriber and I never said I would be leaving. I said I have currently no intention to play the game for a week or more and that I am not going to spend any more money on this game, as long as I can basically not play it, because the client is bugged and it is simply no fun to play by this and other reasons. But I am still a customer with a right to be here. I paid for the game and I am an active subscriber, I have a right to express my dissatisfaction with the service.

"I might give it another try, eventually, but for now I am done with it." Because if that doesn't sound like quitting, I don't know what does... But honestly, if the game is unplayable for you then you have to look at your setting, hardware, or mods. The majority of plays can play the game. There is an error on your side. You are likely insulting and berating a dev team because of user end issues.

Taisynn

I have to admit I have not experienced a lot of the errors @Lysette is commenting on. I know there's a lot of bugs and framerate drops, but I haven't personally experienced these issues.

Though we're detracting from the point of this thread. The issue is ZOS is neglecting the female player base a lot and it's really depressing.

MornaBaine

phobossion wrote: »

lol I can't believe this has turned into "the devs are misogynistic for not modelling boobs on armor" kind of discussion. Especially in Elder Scrolls, where women play such a major role (maybe even bigger than men? I mean mages guild, the fighters guild, the thieves guild, the dark brotherhood are all led by women iirc AND there is an empress in the IC - I mean wtf more do you want?)

Anyway, is there any armor besides the new store one (something priest something?) that has this problem?

Take a moment to actually go back to the OP and then scroll through this discussion from there. You will see LOTS of screenshotted evidence depicting the actual problems with various armors, which are numerous.

Lysette

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

For a lot of us, these "aesthetic issues" ARE game-breaking bugs!

Dont worry, I understood that and you know that.
And to make this clear:

You in Return Should Unterstand:
Game developers have a Priority List. Making The Game fully functional Is definetly a top Priority.

A weird shaped character Is ugly, we know that.
BUT: You can Play The Game, no matter how ugly your character Is.
The Most Important Is, the underlying mechanics are working, then we can Continue and make it Look great aswell.

Short:
REALLY Game breaking stuff Needs to be fixed First(stuff that makes The Game unplayable) before The Games Visual appearance gets polished.

Broken Game with beautiful, detailed character?
Or
Working Game with ugly character, which will be beautiful later on?

Your Choice.


@Lysette

Did you Play ESO since PC Beta?
The Beta was so incredibly buggy and horrible to Play (was a lag fest including countless Crashes, bugs, Visual bugs, many "pink boxes" etc.), Even Me as a really, really huge TES Fan Almost gave up on ESO.

What im trying to say is, The bugs you encounter now, are veeeery few. ESO Went a Long way, And it improved so much in this Short timr, I cant Even think of Anything to Compare.

Well, I am used to a better service, where stuff actually works and when new expansion are out, new bugs found are dealt with within days - you want to know, what it is?- EVE online.

I gave ESO 1 star out of 5 - 4 for content, minus 1 for blatant greediness, minus 1 for lack of communication minus 1 for a broken client, game crashes and other stuff - leaving 1 - and currently it is minus 1 due to discrimination, leaving zero stars, I do not have fun to play the game anymore, IF I would be able to play it without to run into bugs and crashes within short at all. But it has crashes, missing textures, annoying audio issues, unreliable skills and performance issues.

This game is currently a mess and I do not want to play it for at least a week or more - I am just fed up with this crap. I might give it another try, eventually, but for now I am done with it.

Bye. I have barely any of the issue you mentioned. So either your rig can't handle the game, or you are blowing the issues out of proportion.

Well, it could before they broke the client again. That all issues reappeared shows me that they are clueless what the actual flaw in their code is, they do trial and error and that is why it takes so long. Which supports again one of my other points, greediness, too greedy to hire staff, which is actually up for the job - to not be able to fix such an issue in that amount of time they got already is just ridiculous, they need better staff, but they won't go for it due to their greediness.

Edit: and that they unpinned the 64-bit client issues thread, shows how they deal with the truth, they hide it, when it is showing a lot of flaws. You must be blind, not to see the many issue this game has. Wonder when they will unpin the "client crash" thread, to hide the issues from the public.

'they broke the client' Assumptions, it is quite easy to break something adjusting and updating code. However, I have few issues with the game, so what is broken for you could be very specific.
Greed, always a laughable point. Everyone assumes greed and does not assume budget. Your bais is showing.
Unpinning a thread does not imply anything. You have to assume what is meant. Many reasons can exist, you would be lying not to admit that the forums population is full of vitriol. A toxic thread does nothing if they have the feedback they think they need. There are many reasons other than just 'lets hide the issue' to unpin the forum. Otherwise every feedback thread would be unpinned. The threads are not deleted, anyone can still find them and the issues. You act like there is some massive coverup.
If you are leaving the game, why are you still here crying about clothing?

You forget that I am still a subscriber and I never said I would be leaving. I said I have currently no intention to play the game for a week or more and that I am not going to spend any more money on this game, as long as I can basically not play it, because the client is bugged and it is simply no fun to play by this and other reasons. But I am still a customer with a right to be here. I paid for the game and I am an active subscriber, I have a right to express my dissatisfaction with the service.

"I might give it another try, eventually, but for now I am done with it." Because if that doesn't sound like quitting, I don't know what does... But honestly, if the game is unplayable for you then you have to look at your setting, hardware, or mods. The majority of plays can play the game. There is an error on your side. You are likely insulting and berating a dev team because of user end issues.

Nonsense, it worked days before the patch rather well, no crashes and just occasionally audio issues - it was playable, but then they broke it again. It is not on my side, I can play other games just fine - it is not a fps issue or latency in my case, the problem is instability (crashes) which appeared right after the patch. Those fps issues I had, which ZOS claimed to have fixed, I found to be a driver issue of the latest Nvidia driver - reverting that to the february version solved this - that driver caused that as well to other games, so this was not ZOS fault (so I wonder what they claim to have fixed, if it wasn't on their part).

A lot of people have audio issues and crashes - there was a time when it worked without problems (right from the start, where others reported problems, I had none at all, but every one of ZOS "fixes" made it rather worse than better. It would be playable, if I would be a person, who would want to deal with crashes once in a while - but I am not of that kind, crashes are not acceptable and a major flaw of any software - I do not accept that with a paid service, I expect a properly working client.

Quoting out of context is a bad way to make a statement - for now I am done with it, that is correct, for some time, and I might give it another try - that is not "leaving" that is having a break from this crap. Simply because the answer to "am I having fun playing this game?" is "not really" - so I am having a break from it and play something what is fun to play and has a properly working client.

And on topic - I am not willing to spend any money on a company, who is neglecting females in such a way. If this stays that way and that is their decision, my decision is clear as well, in that case I will be leaving. But I have still 90 days of subscription, so this is the time I give them at most. It is now up to them, if they turn out to be a proper company able to deliver a working client and revert their decision to not make female armors and stop discriminating us.

Daraugh

phobossion wrote: »

lol I can't believe this has turned into "the devs are misogynistic for not modelling boobs on armor" kind of discussion. Especially in Elder Scrolls, where women play such a major role (maybe even bigger than men? I mean mages guild, the fighters guild, the thieves guild, the dark brotherhood are all led by women iirc AND there is an empress in the IC - I mean wtf more do you want?)

Anyway, is there any armor besides the new store one (something priest something?) that has this problem?

I'm just going to reply with my original lorehunt on Dragon Priests and gender here. Since I already posted it, I'll put a spoiler tag.

Daraugh wrote: »

So I've been doing a little lore hunting and I can't find anything that says there were Dragon Priestesses beyond one piece of concept art that had been outsourced work. All of the references I found were "he." I'm of two minds on this. One is that is was a male specific cult, which isn't well supported by what we know from the rest of all of TES. Every cult, religion, guild and order has both male and female members. My other thought and the one that is indirectly supported by well known lore is that once the title Dragon Priest is obtained it transcends gender. The support for that comes from the Daedric Princes. They take the form they choose, male or female, but are all known as Princes.

Another thought is that as a Dragon Priest is a lich, while they have some semblance of a body left, mostly bone and hanging skin, the only people who would really be able to determine gender at that point are archeologists and anthropologists. (Like me ) There isn't much written about becoming a lich, but from in game quests we know it takes the energy of a multitude of souls. The absorption of souls is not limited to one gender, but draws from both. This action alone may cause the lich to appear as we see them, neither really male nor female as they look so similar. It's not the person or the gender that we see as much as the lich they've become.

This is the lich Arielle Jurard from Oblivion, who was once a female Breton battlemage

Here's Nahkriin from Skyrim, guarding the portal to Sovngarde. Listed as "he" in the UESP wiki.

And here from ESO is Spinner Indinael. Before her transformation during the questline, she looks like a perfectly normal Bosmer woman.

If there's any gender stealing going on, it's the necromantic power involved in becoming a lich. I wouldn't recommend it. Unless of course you want tremendous power, undeath, to raise your own unholy army against the living. I hear it's been working out great for Mannimarco!

Daraugh

MornaBaine wrote: »

phobossion wrote: »

lol I can't believe this has turned into "the devs are misogynistic for not modelling boobs on armor" kind of discussion. Especially in Elder Scrolls, where women play such a major role (maybe even bigger than men? I mean mages guild, the fighters guild, the thieves guild, the dark brotherhood are all led by women iirc AND there is an empress in the IC - I mean wtf more do you want?)

Anyway, is there any armor besides the new store one (something priest something?) that has this problem?

Take a moment to actually go back to the OP and then scroll through this discussion from there. You will see LOTS of screenshotted evidence depicting the actual problems with various armors, which are numerous.

Agreed. I'm starting to think randomly reposting the OP in here, since the thread is getting so long and full of tangents, might not be a bad idea!

I also think that Cat Herder would be an awesome title for forum mods lol

Inarre

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Wow! If I may use one of your images @helediron, this is just terribad.



It's almost as if they just don't care.

That is literally the ugliest armor I have ever seen in any game. Just awful.

It truly is. Whats sad is that the concept art is gorgeous imo.

MornaBaine

Inarre wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Wow! If I may use one of your images @helediron, this is just terribad.



It's almost as if they just don't care.

That is literally the ugliest armor I have ever seen in any game. Just awful.

It truly is. Whats sad is that the concept art is gorgeous imo.

I am sooooo mad about this armor! You have NO IDEA!!!!

WalkingLegacy

Is anything they concept to us the same in game?

The fidelity is horrible. You know what engine has this problem? Hero engine. Tinfoil hat on.

But seriously. Do they have in house artists or do they take forever to fix or implement anything because they're outsourced?

gkitti7

I hate all the armor. Its like the more you level the uglier and bulkier it gets. The hip pads/saddle bags or whatever you want to call them are hideous, especially on females. And the fact that you cant preview armor when you craft and there is no description telling you what style the armor is after it is crafted is totally beyond me.

Taisynn

gkitti7 wrote: »

I hate all the armor. Its like the more you level the uglier and bulkier it gets. The hip pads/saddle bags or whatever you want to call them are hideous, especially on females. And the fact that you cant preview armor when you craft and there is no description telling you what style the armor is after it is crafted is totally beyond me.

I always check http://eso-fashion.com on my phone or in a browser tab. It helps when crafting!

Blackbird71

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

Daraugh

Blackbird71 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

Yeah, at our SCA archery range the only time my arms hurt afterwards is when I hyperextend my elbow and get my inner arm slapped with the bowstring. That being said, I only draw a 25 lb bow. I can only do a few arrows with my husband's 40lb before I get to tired to draw it safely.

Lysette

Blackbird71 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

I hold against it, that you need strong arms in a real hunting situation, because your target is not holding still and it takes quite a while to aim and figure out how much to elevate and such. Shooting at a practice target, you might be right, but in a real hunting situation, like when hunting greater kudu, it takes quite some strength in your arms to hold the drawn bow for as long as is required to be relative certain, to penetrate the lungs of the animal so that it cannot run for an extended period of time after it was shot. Certainly my shoulder muscles are good as well, because I do push ups on a regular basis, but it takes strength in the arms to hold the drawn bow. And this can take a while, because game does move, it's not a practice target. A missed shot means, that you might not get a 2nd chance on the same day. Real game is rather stealthy and hard to find or get near enough to. This is the actual hard part of hunting with a bow, not the shot, but to get near enough for a lethal shot.

MornaBaine

Is interested in the archery discussion....begs those participating to return to the topic of the OP anyway...

I was trying to figure out something to wear to an RP event last night...kept trying on thigs I had stashed away....and nearly cried in frustration. SIGH Please @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ...throw us a bone here!

Lysette

Daraugh wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

Yeah, at our SCA archery range the only time my arms hurt afterwards is when I hyperextend my elbow and get my inner arm slapped with the bowstring. That being said, I only draw a 25 lb bow. I can only do a few arrows with my husband's 40lb before I get to tired to draw it safely.

And that is what is different to a real hunting situation. Because in a real hunt you do ONE shot only. You will not get a 2nd chance, because the bow is not a silent weapon and real game has quite good ears. Once you have shot, all what is nearby will run off and you might not find another game within a few hours. So you have to make sure, that this one shot is on it's target and you have to hold the drawn bow for quite a while to make sure you will hit where you want to hit. It does not work out all the time, simply because it is not an archery range, but wilderness - where you have to estimate distance and possible motion of the game. That is quite different to a practice situation.

FearlessOne_2014

Atleast make some crown store armors just for female characters body shape, you yall are doing so poorly to not spend the time and resources to make actually female versions of the in game armor. I'll grudgingly settle for that.

MornaBaine

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Atleast make some crown store armors just for female characters body shape, you yall are doing so poorly to not spend the time and resources to make actually female versions of the in game armor. I'll grudgingly settle for that.

I won't. They need to FIX every single piece.

khele23eb17_ESO

Inarre wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Wow! If I may use one of your images @helediron, this is just terribad.



It's almost as if they just don't care.

That is literally the ugliest armor I have ever seen in any game. Just awful.

It truly is. Whats sad is that the concept art is gorgeous imo.

I was so looking forward to this armor. The concept art looks awesome. What a badly proportioned, bloated disappointment it turned out to be in game

The sad part is I dont think it would take a lot to make the armor look good (the male version, the female one is beyond saving). Make it match the characters' silhouette better (so it doesnt turn slim characters stocky and muscular characters bloated), make the gloves and boots less bulky, straighten out the pauldrons and hip flaps like they are in the concept art and it would be fine. Heres an attempt at it using my limited Photoshop skills (middle pic). Just slight tweaks here and there. DB gear for silhouette comparison on this character.

WalkingLegacy

Lysette wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

I hold against it, that you need strong arms in a real hunting situation, because your target is not holding still and it takes quite a while to aim and figure out how much to elevate and such. Shooting at a practice target, you might be right, but in a real hunting situation, like when hunting greater kudu, it takes quite some strength in your arms to hold the drawn bow for as long as is required to be relative certain, to penetrate the lungs of the animal so that it cannot run for an extended period of time after it was shot. Certainly my shoulder muscles are good as well, because I do push ups on a regular basis, but it takes strength in the arms to hold the drawn bow. And this can take a while, because game does move, it's not a practice target. A missed shot means, that you might not get a 2nd chance on the same day. Real game is rather stealthy and hard to find or get near enough to. This is the actual hard part of hunting with a bow, not the shot, but to get near enough for a lethal shot.

You're still using your back muscles to pull. It does not matter how quick your target it moving, if you use poor form you're missing anyways. And when I hold a bow drawn for extended periods my back and shoulders should be only thing straining. If your bicep or forearm is burning, they need more work or you're holding it wrong or you're just plum holding it for 5 minutes as a workout.

When you're bow hunting, you're also looking for stationary targets anyways. You're sitting around waiting for a deer/elk/w.e to graze while you're in your treepost. If you're sneaking around then you're sneaking around with a bow ready to pull, in which case you still need to pull with form.

And compound bows take most the effort out of a traditional bow so there's that too.

Blackbird71

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

...My females have all just normal sized chests, and so most stuff looks nice on them. Furthermore they are nearly all athletic with wide shoulders and muscular arms and legs (well, archers, to draw a 75 lbs bow requires real strength), because they have to run a lot and stay agile. So my characters do not look typically sexy in an outfit like the bosmer doeskin, but like a female archer.

As an archer and archery instructor (IRL), I'm going to have to nitpick this a bit, if only because this is a common misconception that I see frequently and deserves some correction. Yes, drawing a 75lb bow takes a lot of strength, but unless you are doing it horribly wrong, that strength is primarily in the back, not the arms. In fact, I've known experienced archers who regularly pull 60-100lbs but who have rather spindly/scrawny arms. So "big muscular arms" does not mean "good archer". Rather, it either means that your arms are getting a workout through unrelated activities, or that you are using your bow incorrectly, which will not only throw off your aim, but if continued for any length of time will also result in serious injury.

I hold against it, that you need strong arms in a real hunting situation, because your target is not holding still and it takes quite a while to aim and figure out how much to elevate and such. Shooting at a practice target, you might be right, but in a real hunting situation, like when hunting greater kudu, it takes quite some strength in your arms to hold the drawn bow for as long as is required to be relative certain, to penetrate the lungs of the animal so that it cannot run for an extended period of time after it was shot. Certainly my shoulder muscles are good as well, because I do push ups on a regular basis, but it takes strength in the arms to hold the drawn bow. And this can take a while, because game does move, it's not a practice target. A missed shot means, that you might not get a 2nd chance on the same day. Real game is rather stealthy and hard to find or get near enough to. This is the actual hard part of hunting with a bow, not the shot, but to get near enough for a lethal shot.

You're still using your back muscles to pull. It does not matter how quick your target it moving, if you use poor form you're missing anyways. And when I hold a bow drawn for extended periods my back and shoulders should be only thing straining. If your bicep or forearm is burning, they need more work or you're holding it wrong or you're just plum holding it for 5 minutes as a workout.

When you're bow hunting, you're also looking for stationary targets anyways. You're sitting around waiting for a deer/elk/w.e to graze while you're in your treepost. If you're sneaking around then you're sneaking around with a bow ready to pull, in which case you still need to pull with form.

And compound bows take most the effort out of a traditional bow so there's that too.

WalkingLegacy has the right of it; it's almost all in the back, very little in the arms. I would also add that even in hunting, you should never be holding the bow at full extension for very long. Generally you'll hold the bow in a "ready" position, arrow in place and fingers on the string, from which the bow can quickly be raised and drawn just before you are ready to fire, minimizing the time you keep the bow drawn to aim. Of course, if you're using a compound bow, you will probably be in the habit of holding the bow at full extension for long periods to aim, but that's just sloppy technique facilitated by the technology; you won't get away with that with a longbow or recurve.

Also, there is something called "instinctive shooting", in which you don't really take any time to aim (in the sense of holding the bow back at full extension, sighting, adjusting, and releasing), you simply draw back and quickly release, naturally aiming as you draw. Think of it like throwing a baseball; you are focusing more on where you want the arrow to go rather than where it is aimed, and with practice your mind and muscles naturally know where to position themselves to achieve the desired effect. It sounds a bit counterintuitive, but personally my aim and accuracy are often better when shooting instinctively than when aiming traditionally. So far as ESO goes, with the exception of lining up a sniping shot from stealth, this technique is much more likely to be used in a combat situation than a long draw, hold, aim, and release that target archers are more familiar with, as a charging warrior is not likely to slow down and wait for you to line your shot up.

To sum up though, big muscular arms are only necessary for archery if you're doing it wrong.




So, now that the thread has been sufficiently derailed, how about we get some female armor that actually makes female characters look like females? Or rather, how about we have armor that just better adjusts to match our characters' bodies in general? While it's more obvious on many of the female armors, I've seen distortion all around, and frankly it just seems lazy of ZOS.

CherryCake

Wow I am getting so fed up with the game... seriously, the costumes, the lag, the whole bunch of problems ZOS promised they would fix and then didnt, the fanboys that try to always make an excuse as to why zos doesnt get their *** together... so fed up.

MornaBaine

It's indeed a little frustrating that it's been over a month since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom first told us these armor issues were not intended and that they would be fixed and yet we have heard nothing regarding any progress on this issue.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's indeed a little frustrating that it's been over a month since @ZOS_JessicaFolsom first told us these armor issues were not intended and that they would be fixed and yet we have heard nothing regarding any progress on this issue.

A promise is as good as an action... not really, but some players seem to feel this way.

Gothlander

What is the reason for zos making girl bodies like boy bodies? Is it supposed to fix lag?

Daraugh

Ok, self-herding kittycat took a few screenshots of the Assassin's light armor on the pts. I forgot to get a front shot, d'oh! but it was probably because it looked fine! I made up a light version of each of the newer styles but only had time to do these...

The good points: It conforms to her body, there's no distortion and it looks great. I like how they handled the hood for Khajiit, giving it the little bumps for ear comfort instead of squashing it all flattish the way some hoods do on live.

The bad points: The floating shoulders and hip belts are still there. Her torso and chest are at max, so from the back the shoulders fit well but from the side they still float. Her hips are about at medium and you can see the gap between the buckles at the front and where the should be lying flat.

Hopefully I can get a few more of the medium and heavy armor later today, as well as a few more styles before DB drops.

MornaBaine

In interesting news, I have discovered this website: http://www.the-elder-scrolls-by-mysticals.com/

It is a great showcase for armor but what is really fascinating is that even the problem armor looks like it's SUPPOSED to for this player.

For instance, the Trinimac that looks like this on my character:



looks like THIS for this player:





LOOK! NO DISTORTION!!!
I don't know what the difference is except that this player, judging form their website, is probably EU whereas I am NA. I have no idea if this would in any way account for the difference though. @ZOS_GinaBruno ??? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ???

Daraugh

@MornaBaine, now I wonder if there's a racial difference. I took my screenshots on my Khajiit, but that armor might be distorted on my Breton! PTS vs live, EU vs NA and in your post, I'm guessing your vampire is a Breton(?) compared to the Bosmer from Mystical's absolutely brilliant site.

Could it also be *when* the armor was crafted? A recently made set vs a set from when Wrothgar released? I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but it does give us more information about what they and we are working with in regards to proper fit.

Ugh, the best thing to do to get a control group would be take a known set that has distortion and try it on each race, male and female. The PTS has EU copies right now so I can't use my existing characters to test it, but at least any data I get will be fresh in my mind since everything will be newly made.

Inarre

MornaBaine wrote: »

In interesting news, I have discovered this website: http://www.the-elder-scrolls-by-mysticals.com/

It is a great showcase for armor but what is really fascinating is that even the problem armor looks like it's SUPPOSED to for this player.

For instance, the Trinimac that looks like this on my character:



looks like THIS for this player:





LOOK! NO DISTORTION!!!
I don't know what the difference is except that this player, judging form their website, is probably EU whereas I am NA. I have no idea if this would in any way account for the difference though. @ZOS_GinaBruno ??? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ???

I know this person working on the website did it recently, I don't suppose theres any chance that they have fixed it recently? (Small hopes).

I love the trinimac outfit so. I just hope.

It could also - possibly be - two other things. One, that he is wearing either the trinimac style set rather than the actual trinimac's valor set, or he could be wearing a partial worm set as I have the worms raiment which is in the same style and does not show the distortion. (Although it does look like he is wearing more than five pieces which should show the set bonus lighting effect).

But really, the new website shows a very gorgeous trinimac motif, and you can see the difference between this and old pictures taken for eso fashion. Hopefully its been fixed because i love the trinimac style!




ESO Fashion Trinimac's Set




Mystical's Trinimac's Set