March 18, 2016 PCPowerPlay interview with Rich Lambert

Strider_Roshin · March 2016

Player feedback is absolutely something we take into account though when determining future fixes or new systems. One really important bit of feedback that we took to heart was that immersion and story are super important, but not at the expense of being able to easily play with a friend or significant other. We’ve spent a lot of time fixing player separation issues since launch and all of the new content we’ve built since then takes this feedback into account.

Does he even read the forums? Trust me "I want more immersion and story!" are not popular thread titles.

Miwerton · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

yo

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

At this point we can easily just say, that the devs are living in a seperate dimension where ESO actually worked. Or them just being delusional and puffing them self up like a pufferfish to inflate theyre egos.

Have you ever considered that you are living in your own little bubble of your own making and don't have the data that is in ZOS ' hands. Just because you don't see everything doesn't mean it is not real.

If any work on zos part is of any indication what data they use, its of highly questionable quality. And finnaly zos is not some superior being of consciuesness. The way some act, you would think zos was some form of a god, incapeble of errors, well its wery much human, and as humans cappable of errors and mistakes.

Also as humans worthy of respect and not disdain.

That all depends unto a certain point, ignore the people for to long and not doing anything will cause them to lose respect and not treat them with any human kindness for none has been given to them. And as why anyone complain, is because they were hoping for a good game, but has just wasted away hours and money on something that heavily broken. *Gone untill ZOS combat team becomes at least adequete or replaced by better group*. Just want my moneys worth, like most.

No it doesnt depend up to a certain point. What you said sounds like something a child would mutter. Adults even if we dont agree can always agree to be civil towards one another. This is a game after all. Its not the end of the world. If it bothers you so much that you cannot keep control maybe the issue is with yourself and not the developers.

What you take out of context is that the devs have the power to change things, this is not 2 people on the same station disagreeing, this is where managment does poor choices and people below suffer the consequences of said descions.

You do know this is a game right? Noone is suffering. The devs have a plan and a focus for the game. You can either come along for the ride or jump off. Your choice.

Blindly following someones lead is rarely a good characteristic trait in anyone, and putting to much trust in anyone with power rarely ends up in a happy ending. And the rate you are going, you would think the devs were incappable of error, which is quite close to some aspects fanatisicm, at least to some points.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

yo

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

At this point we can easily just say, that the devs are living in a seperate dimension where ESO actually worked. Or them just being delusional and puffing them self up like a pufferfish to inflate theyre egos.

Have you ever considered that you are living in your own little bubble of your own making and don't have the data that is in ZOS ' hands. Just because you don't see everything doesn't mean it is not real.

If any work on zos part is of any indication what data they use, its of highly questionable quality. And finnaly zos is not some superior being of consciuesness. The way some act, you would think zos was some form of a god, incapeble of errors, well its wery much human, and as humans cappable of errors and mistakes.

Also as humans worthy of respect and not disdain.

That all depends unto a certain point, ignore the people for to long and not doing anything will cause them to lose respect and not treat them with any human kindness for none has been given to them. And as why anyone complain, is because they were hoping for a good game, but has just wasted away hours and money on something that heavily broken. *Gone untill ZOS combat team becomes at least adequete or replaced by better group*. Just want my moneys worth, like most.

No it doesnt depend up to a certain point. What you said sounds like something a child would mutter. Adults even if we dont agree can always agree to be civil towards one another. This is a game after all. Its not the end of the world. If it bothers you so much that you cannot keep control maybe the issue is with yourself and not the developers.

What you take out of context is that the devs have the power to change things, this is not 2 people on the same station disagreeing, this is where managment does poor choices and people below suffer the consequences of said descions.

You do know this is a game right? Noone is suffering. The devs have a plan and a focus for the game. You can either come along for the ride or jump off. Your choice.

Blindly following someones lead is rarely a good characteristic trait in anyone, and putting to much trust in anyone with power rarely ends up in a happy ending. And the rate you are going, you would think the devs were incappable of error, which is quite close to some aspects fanatisicm, at least to some points.

Again this is a video game not a presidential election. Its not fanaticism to say you enjoy a video game.

Waseem · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

game sold 100k copies a month means its a good game?
Mc Donald's sell billions of hamburgers, does that means their hamburgers are healthy?
the PvP is unplayable, you'll always find players complaining about lag all the time, your latency meter will always be 3 red bars.
there is a poll regarding implementing AoE caps, majority of players voted No (against AoE caps) but in the next patch AoE caps has been implemented which contradicts the dev statement "we listen to players feedbacks"

Miwerton · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

yo

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

At this point we can easily just say, that the devs are living in a seperate dimension where ESO actually worked. Or them just being delusional and puffing them self up like a pufferfish to inflate theyre egos.

Have you ever considered that you are living in your own little bubble of your own making and don't have the data that is in ZOS ' hands. Just because you don't see everything doesn't mean it is not real.

If any work on zos part is of any indication what data they use, its of highly questionable quality. And finnaly zos is not some superior being of consciuesness. The way some act, you would think zos was some form of a god, incapeble of errors, well its wery much human, and as humans cappable of errors and mistakes.

Also as humans worthy of respect and not disdain.

That all depends unto a certain point, ignore the people for to long and not doing anything will cause them to lose respect and not treat them with any human kindness for none has been given to them. And as why anyone complain, is because they were hoping for a good game, but has just wasted away hours and money on something that heavily broken. *Gone untill ZOS combat team becomes at least adequete or replaced by better group*. Just want my moneys worth, like most.

No it doesnt depend up to a certain point. What you said sounds like something a child would mutter. Adults even if we dont agree can always agree to be civil towards one another. This is a game after all. Its not the end of the world. If it bothers you so much that you cannot keep control maybe the issue is with yourself and not the developers.

What you take out of context is that the devs have the power to change things, this is not 2 people on the same station disagreeing, this is where managment does poor choices and people below suffer the consequences of said descions.

You do know this is a game right? Noone is suffering. The devs have a plan and a focus for the game. You can either come along for the ride or jump off. Your choice.

Blindly following someones lead is rarely a good characteristic trait in anyone, and putting to much trust in anyone with power rarely ends up in a happy ending. And the rate you are going, you would think the devs were incappable of error, which is quite close to some aspects fanatisicm, at least to some points.

Again this is a video game not a presidential election. Its not fanaticism to say you enjoy a video game.

Not about any elections or so, but the structural work it is similar to fanatiscim, structural analysis is key as verbal decription tends to be heavily euphemised.

starkerealm · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

Also worth pointing out, anything they say on these forums will be seen, by the community, as binding.

Someone comes in here with a ZOS account and says, "yeah, we're working on player housing," that's something users will hold them to. Even if it turns out six months later that, "well, there was some horrific systemic issue that made this non-viable," you'll have people going, "no, but you said we were getting player housing," and crying about broken promises.

Nobody wins.

So, actual communication on the boards is very tightly metered. They can't afford to respond to a post saying they want the Vampire Lord form or whatever with, "yeah, that'd be cool," because then you'd have a chunk of the community holding them to that, and getting pissy when it didn't come through.

The most you're likely to see are /lurk posts. Well, and the mods slapping people around when the villagers find their torches, but still.

sadownik · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Remember too 100,000 copies at around $50 each is $5 mil. They pay out the million at $50,000 a year which they make off the interest from those sales alone never mind if some of the 100,000 actually sub or buy a $20 horse. So really its a brilliant strategy that didnt really cost them a dime in the long run.

Its only briliant strategy for a short cash grab. If those new players will find the game lacking they will leave, and the popular opinion of the game will be even worse. Fix the game first, do PR stunts later would be even more briliant.

Ichnaea · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You do know this is a game right? Noone is suffering. The devs have a plan and a focus for the game. You can either come along for the ride or jump off. Your choice.

This "if you don't like it, leave" attitude has got to stop. Do you not understand what it means to be passionate about something? You spend two years making memories, forging new friendships, and spending an ungodly amount of time into something, and that thing becomes a part of you. So now your friends have moved on, you want to play less and less because of it, and the memories are just that, memories. And then you have die-hard fanboys on the forums saying "well I am perfectly happy with my little niche of gameplay...the ERP couldn't be better, maybe you should leave". It gets pretty annoying.

As time has gone on, there has been a significant shift from constructive criticism to angry hostility. The reason why the forums are so caustic right now, is because you spend enough time politely asking for change to a wall (zeni obviously), it's only a matter of time before you get pissed off.

I have two friends left that I play with religiously. We 3-man all vet dungeons, and 2-man some. They are honestly the only reason I play this game anymore. Sad part is, I know a lot of people that feel the same way.

I miss my friends.

Ichnaea · March 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

Blindly following someones lead is rarely a good characteristic trait in anyone, and putting to much trust in anyone with power rarely ends up in a happy ending. And the rate you are going, you would think the devs were incappable of error, which is quite close to some aspects fanatisicm, at least to some points.

LOL. I was literally so close to typing something like that. It's ridiculous.

starkerealm · March 2016

Waseem wrote: »

game sold 100k copies a month means its a good game?

For a title nearly 2 years out of release, 100k in a month indicates it's a fairly successful game. It doesn't mean you have to like it, or enjoy everything about it, just that it does, in fact, sell.

Waseem wrote: »

the PvP is unplayable...

you call this listening to players?

Actually? Yes. Here's the sad truth for you, most MMO players don't go into PvP. I'm not talking about ESO. I mean, with MMOs in general, PvP is a very niche audience. Roughly 1:20 players actually participates in PvP on a regular basis in an MMO. It varies by game, but ESO seems to be right in there.

Players who actually want PvP are more likely to go to games with an overall PvP focus.

So, yes, what they're doing is listening to players. Players are asking for PvE enhancements, and improvements, and PvP is getting the short end of the stick because there just aren't that many PvPers. And again, it's not because they're being neglected, but because they're an extreme minority to begin with.

Miwerton · March 2016

Ichnaea wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Blindly following someones lead is rarely a good characteristic trait in anyone, and putting to much trust in anyone with power rarely ends up in a happy ending. And the rate you are going, you would think the devs were incappable of error, which is quite close to some aspects fanatisicm, at least to some points.

LOL. I was literally so close to typing something like that. It's ridiculous.

Lol, always fun with the occasional *dammit, someone beat to that joke* moments.

Ichnaea · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

game sold 100k copies a month means its a good game?

For a title nearly 2 years out of release, 100k in a month indicates it's a fairly successful game. It doesn't mean you have to like it, or enjoy everything about it, just that it does, in fact, sell.

Waseem wrote: »

the PvP is unplayable...

you call this listening to players?

Actually? Yes. Here's the sad truth for you, most MMO players don't go into PvP. I'm not talking about ESO. I mean, with MMOs in general, PvP is a very niche audience. Roughly 1:20 players actually participates in PvP on a regular basis in an MMO. It varies by game, but ESO seems to be right in there.

Players who actually want PvP are more likely to go to games with an overall PvP focus.

So, yes, what they're doing is listening to players. Players are asking for PvE enhancements, and improvements, and PvP is getting the short end of the stick because there just aren't that many PvPers. And again, it's not because they're being neglected, but because they're an extreme minority to begin with.

Then don't market massive AvAvA the way they did! I bought into it early on because of these advertisements. I wanted something to replace eve online, and mechwarrior online for my pvp needs. At this point it was false advertising.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

You guys take games way too seriously. This is supposed to be a fun pass time not your entire life. My friend doesnt play anymore but I still see him everyday. We are friends have been since 6th grade going on 47 now. Fact is the future of the game is determined long before we hear about the next update. They have plans for this year, next year and even after that. The next couple DLC are already almost finished with development and working on polish.

At some point they have to just go with what they think is best. I personally think the direction they are headed now is far more profitable than the side track of Imperial City. Do they know that will leave some people by the side of the road? Of course but you cannot please everyone.

tinythinker · March 2016

OK, so, this thread got more comments than anticipated. Um, a few thoughts to toss out:

1. Constructive criticism is always appropriate toward devs when you are a customer and a member of the game's community, but you aren't entitled to a personal response to your critique or proposal from a ZOS employee.
2. Being really rude and posting while angry gets a lot of attention but very little sympathy. Sometimes, though, fiery comments do ignite the volatile tension that has been building over an issue, for better or worse.
3. ZOS had admitted a communication issue in the past and pledged to improve on this. Opinions will vary on their progress, but yes, it could be better.
4. People who criticize the game shouldn't be told to love it or leave it (been seeing a lot of that lately), as many criticize areas that need attention and do so because they like the game and community and want both to be as good as possible.
5. Rich Lambert and other leads go on podcasts/streams and say that player ideas are cool, but that they aren't actively working on them, but maybe some day they will look into them, so there is no reason they can't post such sentiments here on their own forums.
6. I like low-calorie ice cream sandwiches even in winter.

starkerealm · March 2016

Ichnaea wrote: »

Then don't market massive AvAvA the way they did! I bought into it early on because of these advertisements. I wanted something to replace eve online, and mechwarrior online for my pvp needs. At this point it was false advertising.

Then, I hate to break it to you, but that's what marketing does. It creates an image of what the game could be, in your mind, and then asks you to buy based on that.

Almost every MMO launching today is going to have some PvP elements which will be basically ignored post launch. It's one of the bullet points the marketing guys need on the back of the box to convince people they're getting what they paid for.

I mean, look at The Division. The game has been out for less than a month, and the PvP zone is basically just PvE with elite enemies. At launch. They advertised it as a kind of Day Z, you can't trust anyone, system... which is just technically true... and the end product is dependent on what other players do with it.

ESO's the same way. There's the mass PvP campaigns, which are interesting, but will only attract a fraction of the population as the main game.

This was not, and never would be, EVE. It was never designed to be open PvP everywhere. I'm sure there is a market for an MMO like that, but it was never going to be ESO as it was designed. And that was clear from the marketing.

This was not, and never would be Mechwarrior online because it's not an arena shooter. And it should have been clear from the marketing that this wasn't what ESO would be.

This was not, and never would be Planetside. Because again, that's not what the marketing said it would be.

Finally, with every game on the market, you really need to look past the marketing. Marketing is there to convince you buying this product is a good idea, on the presumption that you think it's not. When you're looking at a game, you really need to do your research and learn what that game is, before you spend your money. You need to be a conscious consumer, or we will get more garbage like AC: Unity or Arkham Knight being unplayable at launch, because the marketing convinced you this was the right game for you.

I'm sorry ESO's marketing gave you the wrong impression of it's PvP. I'm also sorry that PvP doesn't have a larger community, because when it works, it's really fun. But, at the same time, I can't blame marketing for that. This is research you need to do before jumping into a game.

Malmai · March 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

At this point we can easily just say, that the devs are living in a seperate dimension where ESO actually worked. Or them just being delusional and puffing them self up like a pufferfish to inflate theyre egos.

They said you have to be positive always! Even when server lag is 999+

Positive Vibrations will fix everything UP!

PS:Keep the Ball Rolling UP!

Ichnaea · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

things

There are so many things wrong with your post I honestly don't even know where to begin. I will try hard not to be pissy with my response.

I wasn't looking for another eve, or even another mechwarrior. I knew what those games were and I knew what eso would be. I wanted a different place to kill people, that is all.

They actually got PVP right for so long. Ask any PVP'er about the "glory days" and they will tell you all about wabbajack.

I did the research. I watched all the promotional crap. I watched the early press releases. I played the pre-launch material.

So now PVP is slide show: online and it's all because of mismanagement. If the game wasn't designed for large scale PVP from the get-go and didn't work from the get-go, that's one thing. But the fact that so many of us were happy and because of mismanagement it doesn't work anymore...of course we are going to talk out about that. Ridiculous.

Acrolas · March 2016

It takes about a year for people with hope to finally catch up to the realists. Denial is a wide river to swim...

It was about a year today that I said *** it to another MMO because it slashed subscriber benefits by 75% while bringing updates and upgrades to a painful trickle. And now the staunchest 'the game isn't dying' supporters are finally letting their subs lapse. Pretending these people are your friends, or that things are going to get better, or a slew of hopeful scenarios is just going to be a waste of your money.

ESO isn't dying yet - not by a long shot - but never set yourself up to waste money while waiting on progress that will never come. ESO is all about the Minimum Viable Product. It's playable, interesting, and okay but if you're hungry for something more substantial you're going to starve waiting. Go find a steak and then come back when you're not famished from disappointment.

Lysette · March 2016

With all of this you have to take into account what is a vital business strategy as well - but it applies as well to other sectors of life - and that is "stick to a winning strategy, but stop loss". this basically means, if something is going to hurt you, you do not wait until it will hurt you even more, but you stop loss, get out of this situation and do something else more promising.

At some point in time you will have to realize that ZOS will never fix certain things - and if you are hurt by this, the strategy is to stop loss, not let it continue to hurt you and make your gaming life miserable. If your fun in the game depends on something, what will most likely never get fixed or not in a reasonable time, then just let it go - stop loss - go for something else what you can enjoy and where you have fun - maybe they will fix it, maybe they won't - but you will not sit there waiting on something what might never happen - stop loss is the strategy here - and do something else, what will be more fun for you.

I know this is not easy to do - but there is wisdom in this business rule - stop loss is a winning strategy in the end, because you do not stick with things, which do not benefit you, but have a chance to find something which actually does. People get miserable if they do not follow this strategy - like all those bitter vets in so many games - they did not stop loss, unfortunately.

Tandor · March 2016

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

I imagine it's not that they're afraid of doing so, rather that they just don't see the point. They can read the forums and take the constructive feedback without the need to enter into exchanges with the people that are just tossing out personal insults the whole time.

starkerealm · March 2016

Ichnaea wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

things

There are so many things wrong with your post I honestly don't even know where to begin. I will try hard not to be pissy with my response.

Well, you could start by not intentionally lying in your posts.

Ichnaea wrote: »

I wasn't looking for another eve, or even another mechwarrior. I knew what those games were and I knew what eso would be. I wanted a different place to kill people, that is all.

Ichnaea wrote: »

I wanted something to replace eve online, and mechwarrior online for my pvp needs.

So, which is it? You didn't want another EVE or Mechwarrior or you did?

That's okay, I understand, you want to whine about stuff. Great. But, please, don't insult my intelligence, by suggesting I have the memory of a goldfish.

Thornen · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

Ffastyl · March 2016

Remember there is a function /feedback ingame. We will never see those responses and it is reasonable to assume this is the feedback they listen to the most.

tinythinker · March 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

Remember there is a function /feedback ingame. We will never see those responses and it is reasonable to assume this is the feedback they listen to the most.

So I should copy/paste all of my forum-based suggestions into the /feedback box? Hmm...

Lysette · March 2016

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

starkerealm · March 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

It takes about a year for people with hope to finally catch up to the realists. Denial is a wide river to swim...

That's because every spring it floods it's banks in the runoff from the holiday release schedule, bringing new salt to mix in with the fertile topsoil of good intentions.

...I don't really have anywhere else to go with that, except the joke.

Acrolas wrote: »

It was about a year today that I said *** it to another MMO because it slashed subscriber benefits by 75% while bringing updates and upgrades to a painful trickle.

Also, ouch. Seriously, my sympathies there. It's always sad when an MMO goes into a content freeze, but axing subscriber benefits? That's a new low. I seriously hope it didn't have an LTS system.

Acrolas wrote: »

ESO isn't dying yet - not by a long shot - but never set yourself up to waste money while waiting on progress that will never come. ESO is all about the Minimum Viable Product. It's playable, interesting, and okay but if you're hungry for something more substantial you're going to starve waiting. Go find a steak and then come back when you're not famished from disappointment.

Also, at least for the moment, the content output seems pretty stable. It might not be as high as some want, but we are getting new stuff at a fairly regular pace. But, you know, "buy and play the game that's there, not the one you want to exist."

starkerealm · March 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls level - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

That's actually over-reading the data a bit, no offense. I used to have the statistics on play time for games in general, but basically most players will drop a game after X amount of time. The longer you go, the fewer players will be able to match your time in. This includes stuff like the single player Elder Scrolls games. To an extent you can track this with global achievement completion statistics.

You get hard population drops after 5, 10, and 20 hours for, pretty much, every game. Regardless of it's campaign time. And, with a lot of games, players don't even finish the game at all. Again, statistics for this are out there, if you're curious.

MMOs work, pretty much the same way, except the turnover is much more visible to other players.

If ten people start Skyrim, but only 3 of them finish the main quest (the achievement rate is about 27%), you can't tell that. You can see them in the community, contributing, but you don't see the other 7 who start and quit without interacting at all, outside of their own social circles.

It's not that retention isn't important to MMOs, it's just I wouldn't read too much into this.

Lysette · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It takes about a year for people with hope to finally catch up to the realists. Denial is a wide river to swim...

That's because every spring it floods it's banks in the runoff from the holiday release schedule, bringing new salt to mix in with the fertile topsoil of good intentions.

...I don't really have anywhere else to go with that, except the joke.

Acrolas wrote: »

It was about a year today that I said *** it to another MMO because it slashed subscriber benefits by 75% while bringing updates and upgrades to a painful trickle.

Also, ouch. Seriously, my sympathies there. It's always sad when an MMO goes into a content freeze, but axing subscriber benefits? That's a new low. I seriously hope it didn't have an LTS system.

Acrolas wrote: »

ESO isn't dying yet - not by a long shot - but never set yourself up to waste money while waiting on progress that will never come. ESO is all about the Minimum Viable Product. It's playable, interesting, and okay but if you're hungry for something more substantial you're going to starve waiting. Go find a steak and then come back when you're not famished from disappointment.

Also, at least for the moment, the content output seems pretty stable. It might not be as high as some want, but we are getting new stuff at a fairly regular pace. But, you know, "buy and play the game that's there, not the one you want to exist."

Yes, it is actually very simple - you have to ask yourself in many situations in life - "do I enjoy doing what I am doing?- Am I happy with my situation?" - and if the answer to this is NO - then stop loss - to continue to accept things, which you don't enjoy and which do not make you happy will just make you miserable - this should be a no-brainer - but for many it isn't.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=elder+scrolls+online

Now can you cite your source that 60% of people leave after they reach level 10-15?

Lysette · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls level - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

That's actually over-reading the data a bit, no offense. I used to have the statistics on play time for games in general, but basically most players will drop a game after X amount of time. The longer you go, the fewer players will be able to match your time in. This includes stuff like the single player Elder Scrolls games. To an extent you can track this with global achievement completion statistics.

You get hard population drops after 5, 10, and 20 hours for, pretty much, every game. Regardless of it's campaign time. And, with a lot of games, players don't even finish the game at all. Again, statistics for this are out there, if you're curious.

MMOs work, pretty much the same way, except the turnover is much more visible to other players.

If ten people start Skyrim, but only 3 of them finish the main quest (the achievement rate is about 27%), you can't tell that. You can see them in the community, contributing, but you don't see the other 7 who start and quit without interacting at all, outside of their own social circles.

It's not that retention isn't important to MMOs, it's just I wouldn't read too much into this.

I didn't read anything into it nor did I make any other conclusion than that the different pace and reward scheme of a single-player game compared to an MMORPG can lead to this behavior to quit early - I just stated a fact from my personal experience with having inherited a guild in ESO - the former owner had no time to play anymore and made me guild leader.

As far as doing the main-quest in TES games go - I have completed those once and never again - even I play Oblivion and Skyrim still from time to time - IMO the main storyline was never really THE CONTENT of a TES game, it has too many other things to do, which distract from the main storyline to the point, that doing the main storyline is getting irrelevant.