March 18, 2016 PCPowerPlay interview with Rich Lambert

Tandor

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

Samadhi

Player feedback is absolutely something we take into account though when determining future fixes or new systems. One really important bit of feedback that we took to heart was that immersion and story are super important, but not at the expense of being able to easily play with a friend or significant other. We’ve spent a lot of time fixing player separation issues since launch and all of the new content we’ve built since then takes this feedback into account.

Had to check the link and make sure the article was not, in fact, from May 2014, given how long ago that "feedback" came up.

Birdovic

The key for us though has been to try and engage with the player base as much as possible

Oh...

...but just letting them know that you are there, listening, is huge.

Ah, the mods that usually say "be polite or we lock this thread" ?

ZOS_GinaBruno

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Lysette

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Gidorick

tinythinker wrote: »

Every developer wants their games to do well, so at some level I’m sure everyone takes notice of player feedback. The key for us though has been to try and engage with the player base as much as possible. It’s not easy, and you can’t react or comment on every piece of feedback, but just letting them know that you are there, listening, is huge.

Rich's last post was Feb 22... he made 4 posts in Feb. How, exactly, is it being known that we are being listed to?

tinythinker

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Your comment is very welcome

Thanks.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Every developer wants their games to do well, so at some level I’m sure everyone takes notice of player feedback. The key for us though has been to try and engage with the player base as much as possible. It’s not easy, and you can’t react or comment on every piece of feedback, but just letting them know that you are there, listening, is huge.

Rich's last post was Feb 22... he made 4 posts in Feb. How, exactly, is it being known that we are being listed to?

I would guess they were busy not just with the PC launch of TG but now the console launch.

Samadhi

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

The catch 22 is that,
players expect a quality product for their money,
and get frustrated by lack of progress or not hearing anything,
by not communicating, players get more hostile over their expectations not being met.
Can respect there is no good way out,
after years of moderation work for a gaming company I threw in the towel
because it's an endless stream of flames from players.
The situation is toxic to players who want to enjoy themselves but cannot
due to performance issues
which, in turn, makes them toxic towards others in the community.

Transparency is always good even when progress is slow though.
Thank you for stepping in to remind us why it can be difficult to step in.

Gidorick

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Every developer wants their games to do well, so at some level I’m sure everyone takes notice of player feedback. The key for us though has been to try and engage with the player base as much as possible. It’s not easy, and you can’t react or comment on every piece of feedback, but just letting them know that you are there, listening, is huge.

Rich's last post was Feb 22... he made 4 posts in Feb. How, exactly, is it being known that we are being listed to?

I would guess they were busy not just with the PC launch of TG but now the console launch.

And then they'll be busy with the ramp up of the PTS launch of the Dark Brotherhood, and then the PC DB release, then the console DB release...

Lysette

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

Edit: I expected as well an open-world experience and so might many others, because TES was open world - and ESO is not - this is very disappointing, because you expect different from a TES game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Every developer wants their games to do well, so at some level I’m sure everyone takes notice of player feedback. The key for us though has been to try and engage with the player base as much as possible. It’s not easy, and you can’t react or comment on every piece of feedback, but just letting them know that you are there, listening, is huge.

Rich's last post was Feb 22... he made 4 posts in Feb. How, exactly, is it being known that we are being listed to?

I would guess they were busy not just with the PC launch of TG but now the console launch.

And then they'll be busy with the ramp up of the PTS launch of the Dark Brotherhood, and then the PC DB release, then the console DB release...

They talk to us a lot. Sometimes they have actual work to do. There was plenty of discussion before TG. New eso live coming up. I personally dont need daily updates on what they are doing.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

charley222

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

i`m sorry gina , you try too defending the undefendable , is from the game release so many same issue are still not fix ,
or always you fix 1 issue you got 2 new bug , i think is time too stop defending stuff and put something on the table and deliver , and fix problem , gina your not agree np , but why you only read this from user on this forum everyday ? and all polll vote the same thing always and aways ? i think is time too stop too find excuse and fix coding issue and balance this game
i think topic like this are very clear player are boring too wait over the last 2 year and more
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/253467/dark-brotherhood-or-a-huge-bug-fix-update/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/247155/class-balance-and-bug-fixes-are-not-dlc-features/p1

thank you
and sorry for my english and let hope you understand me have a nice day

oh btw look this guild how many member are gone just check member and last login this is because player are a bit boring to wait after fix and balance issue and lag in cyrodiil
http://etherealarmy.guildlaunch.com/roster.php?roster_mode=members&sorter=5.0&gid=427770
500 player gone inside 1/1/2 year

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

Troneon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Im sorry but that was not ok 6-12+ months ago....but after dealing with this for how long now? That same old line isn't working anymore...

A spade is a spade at this point. All we hear is talk. No results and no changes except more instability, more exploits, more bugs, more performance and balance issues with each and every patch....more so in ESO than any game I have ever played...

While your higher ups just stay silent or say NO ETA every few months while pretending "we at a good place" "keep the ball rolling"...everything is fine...nothing to see here...

This is how a lot of people feel about ESO when ZOS tries to tell us "were working on it"...for I don't know how long now..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic

DaveMoeDee

I agree with the interiew. They clearly follow forums complaints and that is why we see all the fools' errand rebalancing.

The direction of the game is great. Having a persistent RPG world where I can develop my characters and interact with others is fun. It is even better when it takes place in Tamriel. The game does a great job of giving us a taste of the home regions of all the races.

I do wish there were more people grouping for non pledge dungeons because the wait can be annoying. It also seems like I get my place in the grouping queue reset when I enter certain PvE locations, though the reset could be due to other people cancellingout of the group finder.

Otherwise, my main annoyance is all the rebalancing, which is due to listening too much to complaints.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

That is very anecdotal tho. Saying that because a guild you inherited has noone in it means noone is playing is simply not scientific. Also the sales dont seem to match up either. To date between xbox one and ps4 there was 2.8 million boxes sold. PC since the b2p switch 800,000 people. Between all platforms the game sold 100k copies in Feb. This all points to a pretty healthy game. Other than WoW who else in north america have these kind of numbers?

GaldorP

One really important bit of feedback that we took to heart was that immersion and story are super important, but not at the expense of being able to easily play with a friend or significant other. We’ve spent a lot of time fixing player separation issues since launch and all of the new content we’ve built since then takes this feedback into account.

I feel sorry for the poor souls that had to rework every single solo quest in the game so it could be done in duo with a friend without phasing issues. Unfortunately, that was one of the points that the press criticized a lot and mocked the game for it (because phasing had been advertized as one of the game's features but it caused this silly problem) so they had to change that - even if it consumed a lot of development time. Was it really such a huge problem that you could get separated from a friend sometimes (when in different phases) when doing soloable quests in a group? Personally, this never bothered me, but then again I never did solo quests in PvE zones with a friend.

In any case, ESO is a fun Online RPG game with lots of content (that gets more content with each DLC), so I'm glad to hear lots of people are still starting to play it, now

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

That is very anecdotal tho. Saying that because a guild you inherited has noone in it means noone is playing is simply not scientific. Also the sales dont seem to match up either. To date between xbox one and ps4 there was 2.8 million boxes sold. PC since the b2p switch 800,000 people. Between all platforms the game sold 100k copies in Feb. This all points to a pretty healthy game. Other than WoW who else in north america have these kind of numbers?

Where did I say this is not a healthy game?- Do not put words into my mouth, which are just your interpretation. And copies says nothing about how many play the game - I have plenty of games in my steam library, which are just waiting for me to try them. That I bought them on sale does not mean I would play them. You can get ESO for 22€ on sale - and some might just buy it and give it a try - then they find that it is not an open world game, like the other TES games, rewards for low levels are pretty crappy, there is no way to sell your stuff at a decent price, because none of the bigger trading guilds wants you as a newbie and the smaller guilds have no trader or are full of people who want to sell but no one wants to buy.

This all leads to frustration from the very start - and is a major game-stopper for many - no progress, no money, no way to get decent money for your "rewards" - no incentive to keep playing - this is what I wanted to point out with this.

Ichnaea

starkerealm wrote: »

Ichnaea wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

things

There are so many things wrong with your post I honestly don't even know where to begin. I will try hard not to be pissy with my response.

Well, you could start by not intentionally lying in your posts.

Ichnaea wrote: »

I wasn't looking for another eve, or even another mechwarrior. I knew what those games were and I knew what eso would be. I wanted a different place to kill people, that is all.

Ichnaea wrote: »

I wanted something to replace eve online, and mechwarrior online for my pvp needs.

So, which is it? You didn't want another EVE or Mechwarrior or you did?

That's okay, I understand, you want to whine about stuff. Great. But, please, don't insult my intelligence, by suggesting I have the memory of a goldfish.

Your memory is great! Comprehension? Not so much. Read your own argument about what Eve and Mechwarrior online are and maybe you will understand. Because I agree with your understanding on that front. The only similarity is that I like pvp. Do I need to clarify more? I'm not sure how much more I can simplify it.

Also, yes, everyone's concerns with this game is "whining".

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

That is very anecdotal tho. Saying that because a guild you inherited has noone in it means noone is playing is simply not scientific. Also the sales dont seem to match up either. To date between xbox one and ps4 there was 2.8 million boxes sold. PC since the b2p switch 800,000 people. Between all platforms the game sold 100k copies in Feb. This all points to a pretty healthy game. Other than WoW who else in north america have these kind of numbers?

Where did I say this is not a healthy game?- Do not put words into my mouth, which are just your interpretation. And copies says nothing about how many play the game - I have plenty of games in my steam library, which are just waiting for me to try them. That I bought them on sale does not mean I would play them. You can get ESO for 22€ on sale - and some might just buy it and give it a try - then they find that it is not an open world game, like the other TES games, rewards for low levels are pretty crappy, there is no way to sell your stuff at a decent price, because none of the bigger trading guilds wants you as a newbie and the smaller guilds have no trader or are full of people who want to sell but no one wants to buy.

This all leads to frustration from the very start - and is a major game-stopper for many - no progress, no money, no way to get decent money for your "rewards" - no incentive to keep playing - this is what I wanted to point out with this.

So you think 100,000 people went spent like $50-60 for the game and then didnt play it? Seriously?

starkerealm

Lysette wrote: »

I didn't read anything into it nor did I make any other conclusion than that the different pace and reward scheme of a single-player game compared to an MMORPG can lead to this behavior to quit early - I just stated a fact from my personal experience with having inherited a guild in ESO - the former owner had no time to play anymore and made me guild leader.

As far as doing the main-quest in TES games go - I have completed those once and never again - even I play Oblivion and Skyrim still from time to time - IMO the main storyline was never really THE CONTENT of a TES game, it has too many other things to do, which distract from the main storyline to the point, that doing the main storyline is getting irrelevant.

Yeah, TES games are kind of unusual. But, you can still use achievements as a rough litmus test. Again, I was using Skyrim because it's kind of relevant. You can check Steam's Skyrim global achievements if you want to get a feel for when players drop out. More than half of players learn all three words of Fus-Ro-Dah, but by the time you get past that? More than half have quit the game. It's also not a function of, "well, they're doing something else."

Roughly 70% kill the whiterun dragon. Roughly 65% reach level 10. Roughly 40% get a skill to 100. Roughly 30% join the Dark Brotherhood...

I mean, it's true, the main quest isn't important for a lot of players in an Elder Scrolls title. But, with games, there is a sharp drop off over time. It's not something unique to the way ESO functions, it's just a lot more visible.

To be honest, I don't actually question that ESO loses most players between 10 and 15, but then again, so does Skyrim. It's a little harder to prove that specific drop off times, because of how Skyrim's achievements are structured.

To be very blunt, you're right. Most players do leave the first 20 levels or so. But that's not a design function of ESO. It's a nature of people buying a video game and deciding if it's worth their time after the fact.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

You cannot use steam to judge anything about this game. Look at sales of ESO on steam. Games like big rig simulator 16 sold more copies.

Tandor

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

I'm the living proof that you're wrong on this. Approximately two years in since PC launch and my highest is a quest hand-in off level 48. There's plenty for casual players to do and they don't begin to hit repetitive content or slow progress by level 10-15. Seriously, I'll let you know when I reach those stages.

There will always be people who try out games without any idea whether or not it will suit them, and they tend to get snapped up at low levels by guilds who should know better than to recruit random newbies. The chances are that the ones recruited by the guild you inherited felt let down by the guild rather than by the game. How did you come to inherit it if it was being properly run by an active GM along with a committed team of officers? Most of this game's guilds are only, or at least primarily, run for the trading system which is of no relevance to a player whose character is only levels 10-15. Of course they're going to question the appeal of the game in those circumstances.

I'm not for a moment saying that this game is a full-on MMO or that it is for everyone. Nor that there aren't guilds with reduced memberships - but let's not pretend that a semi-MMO based on a single-player IP with the option to join as many as five guilds that are in business mainly for trading can be judged on normal criteria. What I am contesting is the notion that by levels 10-15 casual players are experiencing slow progress and repetitive tasks such as to lead them to quit the game. It simply doesn't ring true. There are other factors at play, including the guild system and, by that level, the performance issues for those primarily interested in PvP, apart from the whole "try it and see" approach people apply to all MMOs these days.

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

That is very anecdotal tho. Saying that because a guild you inherited has noone in it means noone is playing is simply not scientific. Also the sales dont seem to match up either. To date between xbox one and ps4 there was 2.8 million boxes sold. PC since the b2p switch 800,000 people. Between all platforms the game sold 100k copies in Feb. This all points to a pretty healthy game. Other than WoW who else in north america have these kind of numbers?

Where did I say this is not a healthy game?- Do not put words into my mouth, which are just your interpretation. And copies says nothing about how many play the game - I have plenty of games in my steam library, which are just waiting for me to try them. That I bought them on sale does not mean I would play them. You can get ESO for 22€ on sale - and some might just buy it and give it a try - then they find that it is not an open world game, like the other TES games, rewards for low levels are pretty crappy, there is no way to sell your stuff at a decent price, because none of the bigger trading guilds wants you as a newbie and the smaller guilds have no trader or are full of people who want to sell but no one wants to buy.

This all leads to frustration from the very start - and is a major game-stopper for many - no progress, no money, no way to get decent money for your "rewards" - no incentive to keep playing - this is what I wanted to point out with this.

So you think 100,000 people went spent like $50-60 for the game and then didnt play it? Seriously?

Who says they spent 50-60 dollars - I spent 22 euro for example, bought in on sale directly from ZOS - it is not as if you would have to have to pay full price for this game if you wait until it is on sale.

An of course people with a life will consider carefully on what they spend their rare and therefore valuable spare time - that they have paid for the game does not matter - that is a stop loss issue, if they do not enjoy it - not keep playing something what they don't like. Their time is what is precious to them, and they want to spend it on something what they really enjoy.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Thornen wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

There are always going to be trolls in comment sections, if the devs are so easily distraugth by trolls that they are afraid of entering the forums, then something is really wrong with them. Then they say that they listen to people playing the game and theyre feedback, which we know is utter BS. Which in turns is only going to further the anger towards them. They have the power to fix up the multidute of errors that is ESO, but instead its like seeing someone trying to fix a fast growing toxic leak with duct tape, while theyre entire surrondings turns into some horrendus green stuff.

Its not they are afraid lol. Its that they arent going to communicate when all you guys can do is ridicule and attack them. I wouldnt talk to you either if all you do is whine and arent constructive.

Well of course people will riducule them, someone makes something horrible out of a franchise you like, of course most will hate them for it (case george lucas, for extreme ones). And a good portion of what they consider trolling, and or hostility is pretty close to laughable, its rarely single targeting out specific devs, but mainly as an all over aim at them as a whole, which in most cases is the result of theyre poor work perfomance, thus creating even more negavite critissism, if you cant handle something which is inevitable in any type off work, you really shouldnt be doing that, but rather find something else.

This is all simply opinion. You state it as fact. Yet this game just last month alone sold over 100,000 copies.

Also you could follow your own advice. Dont like the game noone is forcing you to play it.

Please site your source for copies sold. And either way you can probably sit in 1 of the first cities and guild invite every 1 of those copies and find that 60%+ stop logging in around level 10-15. This is how I got my personal guild bank up and running in less that 2 hours, inviting every level 3 running out of the starter building, most didn't accept and out of the 40 or so that did 32 stopped logging in a day or two afterwards.

This is really true - I inherited a guild with 70 members, most of them were just invited and joined, without knowing what they actually join. And most of them are offline since more than a month - it is a way to get a guild bank. A lot of people will give ESO a try - buying it at sales for like 22€ (just like I did) - most might join because it has the Elder Scrolls label - but then they discover how ESO is - different than a single-player game - a single-player experience provides you with a steady stream of progress, it is designed to have a streamlined, fast and easy to consume content - ESO on the other side is designed for long term grind and to keep you in game, progress is slow and you will have to do many repetitive tasks - at about level 10-15 many will realize this and get that this is not for them - and so they leave and might never log back in again.

I disagree. At level 10-15 you are still advancing steadily through the game, amazed that you're still only in the first zone after the tutorial island with plenty more to follow plus all the same again with two different alliances. Unless it really isn't the kind of game they like, in which case they've paid for the base game and that's no different to an offline purchase. The only stage they'll encounter slow progress and repetitive tasks is when they have completed the 1-50 content or if they just rush to level 10 and then PvP the whole time.

ESO is what you want it to be. It can be as close to a traditional MMORPG as you want, or it can be as close to a traditional single-player game as you want.

No a casual gamer is not advancing fast enough at between level 10-15 - because he might just play for a hour and a half at a time and if he/she wants to do writs as well in that time, there will not be much time left to do missions. It would take him/her weeks to progress and once he/she is realizing that it will take an eternity to do anything really interesting in the game, they will leave - and the only content which scales you up to be able to do something interesting is in DLCs - given the alternative to either keep paying for a game, which they did not enjoy yet or just leaving it to play something more rewarding for their given time to play, they will most likely choose something else - an MMO is not for everyone.

Basically I want to say with it - the level-gated zone design in the base game is holding a lot of people back from staying in the game, if they are casuals with not that much time to grind to a point where the game could be more interesting for them. They either have to pay even more to get a chance or they just choose some other game in their steam library, which they did not play yet - guess what they will do?

I found level 1-50 very interesting. What you find interesting could be different from what others find interesting.

This guild I inherited speaks clearly to me - it is not even 3 months old and a huge percentage of those who joined did not login in the last 1-2 month or even never again since they joined. This is how "interesting" the first impression is in ESO - MOST left.

Edit: and I am not speaking about myself here - I love Elder Scrolls and ESO - I take my time, I have no problem with advancing very slowly - but as my guild member list tells me, most do not.

That is very anecdotal tho. Saying that because a guild you inherited has noone in it means noone is playing is simply not scientific. Also the sales dont seem to match up either. To date between xbox one and ps4 there was 2.8 million boxes sold. PC since the b2p switch 800,000 people. Between all platforms the game sold 100k copies in Feb. This all points to a pretty healthy game. Other than WoW who else in north america have these kind of numbers?

Where did I say this is not a healthy game?- Do not put words into my mouth, which are just your interpretation. And copies says nothing about how many play the game - I have plenty of games in my steam library, which are just waiting for me to try them. That I bought them on sale does not mean I would play them. You can get ESO for 22€ on sale - and some might just buy it and give it a try - then they find that it is not an open world game, like the other TES games, rewards for low levels are pretty crappy, there is no way to sell your stuff at a decent price, because none of the bigger trading guilds wants you as a newbie and the smaller guilds have no trader or are full of people who want to sell but no one wants to buy.

This all leads to frustration from the very start - and is a major game-stopper for many - no progress, no money, no way to get decent money for your "rewards" - no incentive to keep playing - this is what I wanted to point out with this.

So you think 100,000 people went spent like $50-60 for the game and then didnt play it? Seriously?

Who says they spent 50-60 dollars - I spent 22 euro for example, bought in on sale directly from ZOS - it is not as if you would have to have to pay full price for this game if you wait until it is on sale.

An of course people with a life will consider carefully on what they spend their rare and therefore valuable spare time - that they have paid for the game does not matter - that is a stop loss issue, if they do not enjoy it - not keep playing something what they don't like. Their time is what is precious to them, and they want to spend it on something what they really enjoy.

Sorry but I do not buy your hypothesis. It simply doesnt make sense. You want people to ignore the sales figures and all the people they see in the game.

Menelaos

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. (...)

You madam are the "benevolent spirit" of this forum and I don't always envy you doing your job, or Kai's. The fact that people can launch tweets, posts and interweb rage as well as providing well meaning criticism and full fleshed out "why don't you"s within seconds and minutes sometimes generates the expectation that the answer should be due within the same day and the fix the day after. And yes, there are still issues that were already there at the dawn of time; much like Bob Dylan.

I sometimes feel, Zenimax could be a bit more active in communication their "road ahead" or their "what we do" and I think ESO Live has become much of a marketing and giveaway fest, rather than addressing peoples' issues. I would also propose to do smaller incremental patches to inject changes more carefully and hopefully more polished but those proposals have been all over the place.
---

DaveMoeDee

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot use steam to judge anything about this game. Look at sales of ESO on steam. Games like big rig simulator 16 sold more copies.

His analysis was actually quite insightful. You can use it to judge. It may be hard to generalize from steam users as they ate more likely to impulse buy during a sale. But the point is still valid.

charley222

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot use steam to judge anything about this game. Look at sales of ESO on steam. Games like big rig simulator 16 sold more copies.

the problem james people and kid buy the game np , but a lot leave after a few month