March 18, 2016 PCPowerPlay interview with Rich Lambert

DaveMoeDee

silky_soft wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

There is many polls on this forum from PvE and PvP players where the vote for something is 90% and you have gone the other way or just not implemented it. 96% in favor of adding old sets at v15 and 16 to the pvp vendors. How is it even an issue that we have to raise it? You say you don't want our AP to be the latest and greatest gear. Fine, but then you will let us stock pile it up, have no access to older sets and no income to afford consumables.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250535/should-alliance-vendors-be-updated-for-tg-dlc-to-include-old-gear-and-v15-16/p1

Or some of those massive tldr posts where people have done all the work for you guys, all you need to do is implement it and you haven't even used a single idea for your own systems. How can you expect people to stay constructive when all you have done is ignored us? The only improvement that was made in this patch was that you brought the community closer together, but to rally against you, not with you.

I find it hard to take this complaint seriously. Sure, it would be a nice change for that gear, but it isn't at all game breaking. Are things like that worth bile spewing we regularly see?

Lysette

I looked through the trailers for ESO:TU - they have actually the "massive battles along side hundreds of other players" in the trailer, it was advertised like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MllBAuxjbZA

hedna123b14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Agree

James-Wayne

Kova wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

They should try putting us on "Ignore" then.


No, I get what you mean, but the community has had valid concerns for something that has become a large part of their lives and the administration as been silent on every major issue because they didn't want to lose sales. Then they come out with interviews like this that completely misappropriate their player base in order to attract more box sales.

Also, NOTHING in this thread is overly hostile, and I have seen some salty attacks before.I understand playing the devil's advocate, but when you want transparency from a thick hide, you must poke some holes.

They do ignore most of the nasty insulting comments and there are lots of them on here. If people directly attack someone and dont offer at minimal constructive feedback they should be banned, we dont need that poison in the community.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

I looked through the trailers for ESO:TU - they have actually the "massive battles along side hundreds of other players" in the trailer, it was advertised like this:

snipped video

Where is this video does it say the main focus of the game and the main selling point is pvp? They did a ton of videos about the PVE portion of the game as well.

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I looked through the trailers for ESO:TU - they have actually the "massive battles along side hundreds of other players" in the trailer, it was advertised like this:

snipped video

Where is this video does it say the main focus of the game and the main selling point is pvp? They did a ton of videos about the PVE portion of the game as well.

Of course they did - point is, it was advertised in several trailers, not just for the original ESO but as well for ESO:TU. It was certainly one of the main selling points, you cannot deny this - fact it, it WAS, but it no longer IS - the "massive battle" comment is no longer on their website, not because they would not want it to work, but because they cannot deliver currently. From my point of vfew that is because the combat mechanics are in a way, which leads to player behavior, which in return leads to lag - i.e. zerg balling and AoE spam.

This has to be addressed and the one who would have to do it IMO, would be Mr. Wrobel and his team, re-design some of these mechanics, so that zerg balls become undesirable and AoE spam as well. Possible solutions - scale effects with the effort required to resolve an interaction graph in a zerg ball in a reciprocal way - let AoE effects cancel each other out,if they are spammed too often - something like this would help IMO. Technicians cannot do much here IMO, it is a design issue.

phillyboy7897

You are getting suckered lysette. They don't actually think they're right. They just want to win the argument to prove intelligence and superiority.

It's a particular kind of forum troll - the sophist.

The sophist in its natural habitat will pick any point in a topic and disagree this can include flames but not always. If there is no reply or that subject isnt brought up again they will leave. Next whatever response you throw out is then attacked, at this point you can be around 70% certain it's a troll given these forums. Ad infinitum. They will never backdown and often have fallback arguments in case all thier logical fallacies handy are depleted.

In this case the fallback argument is "its just a game chill out"

You are telling people to leave a game they love and just want to see work.

You are insulting 1/6 of the player base (pvpers) and telling us we are suckers for buying the game.

You are defending a companies right to intentionally scam thier customers and lie about thier product.

I do not believe zos is lying or I wouldn't be here. I believe it is honest when they say they are working on the lag.

Can I understand where people are coming from when they are pissed after 1+ year?

Absolutely and you should to. They have a right to it, and a right to question if the line being delivered repeatedly is honest.

It's called empathy. This is moral-relativism from you guys and you are flaming people who actually care about the game.

Quit trolling.

starkerealm

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

You are insulting 1/6 of the player base (pvpers) and telling us we are suckers for buying the game.

1/6th of the player base...

So... 1/6th of the player base would be, roughly 16.7% of the players in the game. Right?

With me so far? Cool.

So, the baby's first PvP achievement (the one you get from zoning into Cyrodiil for the first time) is only earned by 13% of players...

That's less than 1/6th. Closer to 1/7th or 1/8th. So... you're saying 1:7 players accounts for 1/6th of the playerbase.

And that's assuming that everyone who enters Cyrodiil ever, at any time, is an active member of the PvP community for all time, which is patently absurd.

But, if course, you're not artificially inflating the number of people who play PvP in order to make your position sound legitimate. That would be disingenuous.

Lysette

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

You are getting suckered lysette. They don't actually think they're right. They just want to win the argument to prove intelligence and superiority.

It's a particular kind of forum troll - the sophist.

The sophist in its natural habitat will pick any point in a topic and disagree this can include flames but not always. If there is no reply or that subject isnt brought up again they will leave. Next whatever response you throw out is then attacked, at this point you can be around 70% certain it's a troll given these forums. Ad infinitum. They will never backdown and often have fallback arguments in case all thier logical fallacies handy are depleted.

In this case the fallback argument is "its just a game chill out"

You are telling people to leave a game they love and just want to see work.

You are insulting 1/6 of the player base (pvpers) and telling us we are suckers for buying the game.

You are defending a companies right to intentionally scam thier customers and lie about thier product.

I do not believe zos is lying or I wouldn't be here. I believe it is honest when they say they are working on the lag.

Can I understand where people are coming from when they are pissed after 1+ year?

Absolutely and you should to. They have a right to it, and a right to question if the line being delivered repeatedly is honest.

It's called empathy. This is moral-relativism from you guys and you are flaming people who actually care about the game.

Quit trolling.

You got it all wrong, really - I am not the one who is saying, ZOS would not want to get the lag fixed - I am saying, they are trying it on the wrong end of the horse - it is not a technical issue, but a game design issue - combat design to be correct - those zergs and AoE spams in a very small space with lots and lots of people scale in a horrible way and any amount of hardware thrown at it will not solve the issue - the game mechanics have to be changed.

I am as well not against PvP in the game - even I think, the game would have been better off, if it would have not had PvP in the first place - simply because you see how hostile both groups are to each other. That does not mean that I am saying PvP should not be in the game - they have it in the game and it will stay, because that is what their intention was and it is their game. I can still have another opinion, but that does not mean I would want you people out - I am just tired of this permanent struggle with you guys - the way in which "hardcore PvPer" use "casuals" and "carebear" as an insult for example. As if we would be the dirt under their toes - we are not, we are those who bring in the most profit and if ZOS is not keeping us happy, the game would go down the drain - because in an Elder Scrolls game we are the majority, due to the nature of these games.

So don't blame me - I am not against you guys - but I am as well not on your side, if you insult us - the only effect this has is that I think that you "1337" people are no-lifers - what might as well be wrong - but this comes to mind then, when you have all the time of the world to play the game - when do you people work and earn a living? comes to mind with it very easily - and then you "elite" are not any elite at all. So just let's not blame each other in this way - we can both coexist in this game, but not if one side is blaming the other for all the mess in this game - we are not responsible for it's flaws, so why bash on each other?

phillyboy7897

Watch.

This is classic straw-man: attack a single point I was wrong about and ignore all of the rest. The goal here is to make it seem like they have won. That is the only goal from these guys.

It's not to help the thread it's not to discuss anything. Make ppl look dumb and make yourself look smart.

Quit trolling.

phillyboy7897

No lysette none of that was directed at u. I was trying to give u a heads up these guys are just trolling and debating them is useless.

the troll I directed it at immediately emerged.

Rjizzle09

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

Dude you can't seriously be defending them right now? Me along with countless other people on this game have been playing wither since LAUNCH or right after and for things to stay broken THIS long is just utterly disappointing. Out comments have nothing to do with then not coming in here and replying. If they are so easily deterred then they need thicker skin as life is full of people that like to troll what you gonna do hide and run all the time? Or confront that person to understand why they fell the way they do? Also for someone thinking that this game is in good shape then you really can't be that into it like the rest of us are. If you were you would see all the broken mechanics passives abilities and bugs that go on daily. I live the devs to death but the way this game is headed is into casual city honestly. No yiu shouldn't build a game around hard core only I'm not saying that but when dungeons are so easy that you don't need a tank OR healer at all then it's way too easy. We should not be able to 4 dps prison with a magicka sorc tanking everything with inner fire. Everyone needs to wake up and see what's going on I personally don't think they care about what we think if they did then we would have fixed passives fixed mechanics fixed ability fixed lag fixed maelstrom arena etc etc. I live this game but they way they are doing it is unacceptable and for people to just down right say this game is doing awesome is just ignoring all the things that are wrong with it. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes

phillyboy7897

Btw bro I wonder does that 13% figure include all the players discussed earlier in the thread who quit before before level 10 and couldn't even enter Cyrodiil?

It doesn't matter tho it's not about facts to ya, and what is actually happening. It is about wit and outpacing ppl.

Shutting u down dude no more trolling here

Lysette

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

No lysette none of that was directed at u. I was trying to give u a heads up these guys are just trolling and debating them is useless.

the troll I directed it at immediately emerged.

Ah ok, then I was the one who got it wrong sorry - I am already tired, it's 6am in the morning here and I was up all night.

Faulgor

Of course they listen to feedback. That is evident to everyone who bothered to follow the development of the game. From 1st person gameplay, Undaunted pledges, the justice system, console chat, shield dyes, cross-alliance grouping to Malacath and Trinimac crafting motifs - a ton of features have been initiated by community feedback.

Does that mean they put every suggestion into the game? Thank Dibella no. I get that that's frustrating at times, especially with popular demands like removal of AoE caps - heck, I made probably two dozen elaborate constructive feedback threads since beta and not a single seemed to influence the development of the game. But to conclude from this that they are deaf to feedback? That's just ignorant. I certainly would like to know from ZOS why individual suggestions didn't make it into development, but realistically I can't expect them to ... maybe a bit more though?

Concerning actual changes, my hope is that more development resources will be available after the Dark Brotherhood release, because a lot of system developers are probably still occupied with the VR removal - which itself was 100% initiated by feedback.

runagate

Kova wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

No it doesnt depend up to a certain point. What you said sounds like something a child would mutter. Adults even if we dont agree can always agree to be civil towards one another. This is a game after all. Its not the end of the world. If it bothers you so much that you cannot keep control maybe the issue is with yourself and not the developers.

When saying that one shouldn't personally attack someone and respect them, it's best not to personally attack them and disrespect them.

I'm gonna be laughing over that for a long time. Thanks, Kova. Thinking makes things better.

Now can you phrase it in a tmesis like JFK would? It would make a good sig quote.

phillyboy7897

Its fine Lysette it happens on here sometimes, and sometimes I am perhaps unclear about what exactly I am saying. I need to be careful about getting mod-trolled while combating these guys so the wording must be hazy at times I think. You can bet they are hitting that flag comment pretty much as soon as they are getting schooled up.

The forums will be cleansed of trolls! This is our game man don't troll here... go elsewhere there are so many different targets and options. Go to a my little pony forum for bronies, or act like you are a bronie in support of Hillary Clinton on her forums... the possibilities are endless.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

One of the selling points yes. Not THE selling point and focus of the game like some here have claimed. Like all elder scrolls games the main focus is now and has always been the PVE side.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

Dude you can't seriously be defending them right now? Me along with countless other people on this game have been playing wither since LAUNCH or right after and for things to stay broken THIS long is just utterly disappointing. Out comments have nothing to do with then not coming in here and replying. If they are so easily deterred then they need thicker skin as life is full of people that like to troll what you gonna do hide and run all the time? Or confront that person to understand why they fell the way they do? Also for someone thinking that this game is in good shape then you really can't be that into it like the rest of us are. If you were you would see all the broken mechanics passives abilities and bugs that go on daily. I live the devs to death but the way this game is headed is into casual city honestly. No yiu shouldn't build a game around hard core only I'm not saying that but when dungeons are so easy that you don't need a tank OR healer at all then it's way too easy. We should not be able to 4 dps prison with a magicka sorc tanking everything with inner fire. Everyone needs to wake up and see what's going on I personally don't think they care about what we think if they did then we would have fixed passives fixed mechanics fixed ability fixed lag fixed maelstrom arena etc etc. I live this game but they way they are doing it is unacceptable and for people to just down right say this game is doing awesome is just ignoring all the things that are wrong with it. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes

I think the difference here between you and I is that I realize its a game. Its going to have flaws. If the flaws bother me too much I simply do something else. As far as the health of the game as recently as last week Lambert said the game has "substantially" more players now. The sales figures simply do not lie. There is no evidence people quit the game before level 10. Yet there is factual evidence the game across all platforms sold 100,000 copies last month.

So I guess what I am trying to say is I am a reasonable adult. I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Cyrodiil performance has been an issue since 2014. It is 2016 now and Cyrodiil performance is still an issue. This pretty much explains everything. Even if personal attacks won't get us anywhere, it seems being constructive does not go a long way either. I guess after all the excuses, the only reasonable answer to all these problems is that some people at ZOS are just utterly bad at their jobs.

WalkingLegacy

Lysette wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

You are getting suckered lysette. They don't actually think they're right. They just want to win the argument to prove intelligence and superiority.

It's a particular kind of forum troll - the sophist.

The sophist in its natural habitat will pick any point in a topic and disagree this can include flames but not always. If there is no reply or that subject isnt brought up again they will leave. Next whatever response you throw out is then attacked, at this point you can be around 70% certain it's a troll given these forums. Ad infinitum. They will never backdown and often have fallback arguments in case all thier logical fallacies handy are depleted.

In this case the fallback argument is "its just a game chill out"

You are telling people to leave a game they love and just want to see work.

You are insulting 1/6 of the player base (pvpers) and telling us we are suckers for buying the game.

You are defending a companies right to intentionally scam thier customers and lie about thier product.

I do not believe zos is lying or I wouldn't be here. I believe it is honest when they say they are working on the lag.

Can I understand where people are coming from when they are pissed after 1+ year?

Absolutely and you should to. They have a right to it, and a right to question if the line being delivered repeatedly is honest.

It's called empathy. This is moral-relativism from you guys and you are flaming people who actually care about the game.

Quit trolling.

You got it all wrong, really - I am not the one who is saying, ZOS would not want to get the lag fixed - I am saying, they are trying it on the wrong end of the horse - it is not a technical issue, but a game design issue - combat design to be correct - those zergs and AoE spams in a very small space with lots and lots of people scale in a horrible way and any amount of hardware thrown at it will not solve the issue - the game mechanics have to be changed.

I am as well not against PvP in the game - even I think, the game would have been better off, if it would have not had PvP in the first place - simply because you see how hostile both groups are to each other. That does not mean that I am saying PvP should not be in the game - they have it in the game and it will stay, because that is what their intention was and it is their game. I can still have another opinion, but that does not mean I would want you people out - I am just tired of this permanent struggle with you guys - the way in which "hardcore PvPer" use "casuals" and "carebear" as an insult for example. As if we would be the dirt under their toes - we are not, we are those who bring in the most profit and if ZOS is not keeping us happy, the game would go down the drain - because in an Elder Scrolls game we are the majority, due to the nature of these games.

So don't blame me - I am not against you guys - but I am as well not on your side, if you insult us - the only effect this has is that I think that you "1337" people are no-lifers - what might as well be wrong - but this comes to mind then, when you have all the time of the world to play the game - when do you people work and earn a living? comes to mind with it very easily - and then you "elite" are not any elite at all. So just let's not blame each other in this way - we can both coexist in this game, but not if one side is blaming the other for all the mess in this game - we are not responsible for it's flaws, so why bash on each other?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

^Uh, where's the lag for that zerg battle?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

One of the selling points yes. Not THE selling point and focus of the game like some here hcan't claimed. Like all elder scrolls games the main focus is now and has always been the PVE side.

The Game Director and President of ZOS is an avid PvP player. No one is saying the main point of the game is PvP. It is one of many main aspects of the game

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/04/19/ask-us-anything-alliances-at-war
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/12/23/ask-us-anything-cyrodiil
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/24/the-elder-scrolls-online-pvp-and-cyrodil-detailed
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forums/topic/132215-dec-18th-4pm-est-exclusive-qa-with-zenimax-studios-pvp-developer-brian-wheeler/
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/29/elder-scrolls-online-characters
https://www.vg247.com/2013/12/23/the-elder-scrolls-onlines-pvp-developer-spills-many-details-on-maps-guilds-combat-more/

[Edited to remove insulting content]

Ichnaea

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

So let's say you have a car. You've gotten it up to whatever your maximum speed limit is countless times. You get in it today and all of a sudden it won't go past 25 mph. You see what I'm saying here?

So what zeni does is change your automatic to manual, so you'll have more control of how you get to 25 mph. What zeni does is remove your windshield, because the wind and bugs and sh** hitting you in the face makes you feel like youre driving fast! What zeni suggests you do is "i dunno, maybe don't drive near other cars...or maybe drive in 25 mph speed zones".

So you are in the left hand lane of a major highway, going 25 mph with no front windshield, and you don't feel like berating the car company? Yes, you are a special snowflake.

Ichnaea

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

^Uh, where's the lag for that zerg battle?

Wow. It's so beautiful. For a while, I've started to feel like people were using Jedi mind tricks or something. I had forgotten how amazing PVP was. Kind of makes you sad doesn't it?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

So let's say you have a car. (snipped)

Stopped reading right there. This isnt a car its a video game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

You are getting suckered lysette. They don't actually think they're right. They just want to win the argument to prove intelligence and superiority.

It's a particular kind of forum troll - the sophist.

The sophist in its natural habitat will pick any point in a topic and disagree this can include flames but not always. If there is no reply or that subject isnt brought up again they will leave. Next whatever response you throw out is then attacked, at this point you can be around 70% certain it's a troll given these forums. Ad infinitum. They will never backdown and often have fallback arguments in case all thier logical fallacies handy are depleted.

In this case the fallback argument is "its just a game chill out"

You are telling people to leave a game they love and just want to see work.

You are insulting 1/6 of the player base (pvpers) and telling us we are suckers for buying the game.

You are defending a companies right to intentionally scam thier customers and lie about thier product.

I do not believe zos is lying or I wouldn't be here. I believe it is honest when they say they are working on the lag.

Can I understand where people are coming from when they are pissed after 1+ year?

Absolutely and you should to. They have a right to it, and a right to question if the line being delivered repeatedly is honest.

It's called empathy. This is moral-relativism from you guys and you are flaming people who actually care about the game.

Quit trolling.

You got it all wrong, really - I am not the one who is saying, ZOS would not want to get the lag fixed - I am saying, they are trying it on the wrong end of the horse - it is not a technical issue, but a game design issue - combat design to be correct - those zergs and AoE spams in a very small space with lots and lots of people scale in a horrible way and any amount of hardware thrown at it will not solve the issue - the game mechanics have to be changed.

I am as well not against PvP in the game - even I think, the game would have been better off, if it would have not had PvP in the first place - simply because you see how hostile both groups are to each other. That does not mean that I am saying PvP should not be in the game - they have it in the game and it will stay, because that is what their intention was and it is their game. I can still have another opinion, but that does not mean I would want you people out - I am just tired of this permanent struggle with you guys - the way in which "hardcore PvPer" use "casuals" and "carebear" as an insult for example. As if we would be the dirt under their toes - we are not, we are those who bring in the most profit and if ZOS is not keeping us happy, the game would go down the drain - because in an Elder Scrolls game we are the majority, due to the nature of these games.

So don't blame me - I am not against you guys - but I am as well not on your side, if you insult us - the only effect this has is that I think that you "1337" people are no-lifers - what might as well be wrong - but this comes to mind then, when you have all the time of the world to play the game - when do you people work and earn a living? comes to mind with it very easily - and then you "elite" are not any elite at all. So just let's not blame each other in this way - we can both coexist in this game, but not if one side is blaming the other for all the mess in this game - we are not responsible for it's flaws, so why bash on each other?

^Uh, where's the lag for that zerg battle?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

One of the selling points yes. Not THE selling point and focus of the game like some here have claimed. Like all elder scrolls games the main focus is now and has always been the PVE side.

The Game Director and President of ZOS is an avid PvP player. No one is saying the main point of the game is PvP. (snip)

Clearly the person I was talking to said it was "THE" key selling point.

Myxril wrote: »
» show previous quotes

Say.... like a game that was launched with a massive PvP system (AvAvA) spotlighted at center stage as its key selling point?

Even says there "center stage" which means the main focus.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

At no time was this game advertised as being a PVP game with PVP at its core, its key selling point nor was PVP center stage. While yes it was part of the advertising so was fishing.

Ichnaea

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

So let's say you have a car. (snipped)

Stopped reading right there. This isnt a car its a video game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

This isn't McDonalds, it's a video game.

Runs to google.com to look up "analogy". Hrm, interesting.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

So let's say you have a car. (snipped)

Stopped reading right there. This isnt a car its a video game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

This isn't McDonalds, it's a video game.

Runs to google.com to look up "analogy". Hrm, interesting.

The point is I dont go in ask a company to change the entire business just to suit me. If I dont like it I go someplace else. For example when IC came out I stopped playing for a bit cause I wasnt happy with IC. Didnt buy IC. Didnt even play the game for a few months until orsinium came out. So you either accept the game for what it is or find another game which suits you.

Ichnaea

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ichnaea wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I realize I am not a special snowflake. I know that if I am not happy with a product at some point I have to stop using it. I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

So let's say you have a car. (snipped)

Stopped reading right there. This isnt a car its a video game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I dont eat at mcdonalds everyday while berating the staff about how I want the burgers cooked differently.

This isn't McDonalds, it's a video game.

Runs to google.com to look up "analogy". Hrm, interesting.

The point is I dont go in ask a company to change the entire business just to suit me. If I dont like it I go someplace else. For example when IC came out I stopped playing for a bit cause I wasnt happy with IC. Didnt buy IC. Didnt even play the game for a few months until orsinium came out. So you either accept the game for what it is or find another game which suits you.

I think I'll take option C, and play the game for free, so I have something to play with my friends. And yes, that is playing a broken game. And while I'm at it I can go on the forums and make people laugh at the absurdity of some of it's fanboys.

If you don't like what I have to say, you can you know, leave.

Lysette

@WalkingLegacy

Before ZOS did something to fight bots the client-server architecture was different - they gained the performance for mass battles by not sticking to the client-server paradigma and used client-machines to compute stuff, which would have to be done on the servers. This led to vulnerabilities in regards to bots and hacks - just like it is with Korean MMOs, which do it in the same way. Once they decided to go back to a proper client-server architecture these vulnerabilities were covered, but now the servers had to do all the computation and that is when things got bad performance-wise with zergs and AoE effects, because those scale badly with the number of players and/or AoE effects in a zerg.