March 18, 2016 PCPowerPlay interview with Rich Lambert

audrieltheelf

Aquanova wrote: »

Just play the *** game and stop crying already

We would be playing the game and not passionately asking for change (see what I did there) if it were something we felt we could enjoy without crashing every few seconds or lagging to the point we lose sound. These forums would be empty if the game were enjoyable but seeing as how threads have blown up recently with responses from people (such as myself) who detest coming here, it's obvious there are people who are upset and have the right to ask what the heck is going on with the hamsters.

No, it's not the end of the world. Yes, this is just a video game but it's a game I spend money on. When I spend money on something I want the best that I can get or at least something that can be the best that it can (Now I'm singing the Army song in my head) but this game is so far from it. I feel like I've wasted 2 years worth of monthly sub time on something that's only gotten worse.

MornaBaine

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Would love to know how you decide which guilds to listen to or even talk to. My guild has been active since launch without a break but we've never been engaged by you guys.

TheHsN

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Tnx For your feedback Gina...

You are right to ask for us to be constractive.. But i thing you need to be more constravtive fo GAME IT SELFthan the forum discussion

we wait you to fix bugs
we wait you to fix lags
we wait you to make dungeons items and drops scaled to v16
we wait you to make less bound items to be able to sell
we wait you to make better class Balance.. And there are many problems like this...

SO i hope you are going to be more constactive in those ISSUES
thank u

audrieltheelf

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Would love to know how you decide which guilds to listen to or even talk to. My guild has been active since launch without a break but we've never been engaged by you guys.

From what I know they listen to the trade guilds more than anything. I wish they'd implement an open door system and publish "minutes" for their meetings with the guilds. Being in ESE I know they talk to the leader of that guild but all we get are little snips of what is discussed. There have been MMO's in the past that were transparent when they met with the community. I would love to see something like that from Zenimax.

Tandor

audrieltheelf wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in on a few points here. First, what Rich said in the interview is true. We read a lot of feedback from many different places; this includes the forums (here), reddit, in-game feedback, watching streams, talking with guilds, and more.

That said, there's never an instance where everyone agrees on one point, and that's where we need to make a decision and go with it. Can we ever make everyone happy? No, but we try have a balance between what will make players happy and what is best for the game long-term. Do we have issues we still need to work out? Of course. We totally understand that some issues, such as Cyrodiil performance, is something that's been sticky for quite some time and at the risk of just repeating what's already been said, please know that we are working on it. Improvements, though small, have been made. We want to get the performance up to par and get game bugs fixed as much as you guys do.

As far as feedback itself goes, there is a difference between being constructive and being rude. You certainly don't have to sugarcoat things, but personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

Would love to know how you decide which guilds to listen to or even talk to. My guild has been active since launch without a break but we've never been engaged by you guys.

From what I know they listen to the trade guilds more than anything. I wish they'd implement an open door system and publish "minutes" for their meetings with the guilds. Being in ESE I know they talk to the leader of that guild but all we get are little snips of what is discussed. There have been MMO's in the past that were transparent when they met with the community. I would love to see something like that from Zenimax.

Perhaps you should ask your guild leader for transparency. Why is it Zenimax's responsibility to report to your guild on meetings that your guild leader attended?

Cherryblossom

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

I can only assume you have not been here long!

If you had been here for a while you would know the the Dev's have never engaged with the community on this forum, you would also know it takes months of continual posts about bugs or stupid implementation of changes, for the Devs to make a comment or acknowledge the Bug.

The community has become more hostile towards ZOS over time, @Lysette has for a long time been a defender of the game, but as you can see they also see the failings of ZOS to communicate with the community.

Personally I've given up on ever getting any meaningful dialog with ZOS and I've been asking since launch for them to be more active on the forum, a simple we are aware or we will take a look would do, but we don't even get that, just the be nice messages and SOON, no ETA.....

Cherryblossom

Waffennacht wrote: »

See imo the game is great and the salty posts prove it. Why?

Because for the most part it's all about the inner mechanics and not the game itself.

For example arguing about the OPness of stam vs magicka instead of, "my crosshairs never line up!"

Example: ill never play another dark souls game, the control mechanics made the game superficially difficult, aiming was horrid, movement was a pain etc... nothing about content, the game itself suxed imo. Not true (in lik 99%) of this game.

Or like the Dragon Age games, every single one of them as a way to male an immortal, (seriously) beast. I set that game on highest difficulty, went solo, and still undamageable (also tried allies with friendly fire on, still invincible)

So imo, outside of what I consider normal hiccups, the game is pretty strong.

Most people like the game here, they just wish it wasn't so buggy or laggy....

We would also like to have a few months where there wasn't a complete overhaul on skills, where we have to change everything in time for the next attempt by ZOS at balancing!!

Lysette

Cherryblossom wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

I can only assume you have not been here long!

If you had been here for a while you would know the the Dev's have never engaged with the community on this forum, you would also know it takes months of continual posts about bugs or stupid implementation of changes, for the Devs to make a comment or acknowledge the Bug.

The community has become more hostile towards ZOS over time, @Lysette has for a long time been a defender of the game, but as you can see they also see the failings of ZOS to communicate with the community.

Personally I've given up on ever getting any meaningful dialog with ZOS and I've been asking since launch for them to be more active on the forum, a simple we are aware or we will take a look would do, but we don't even get that, just the be nice messages and SOON, no ETA.....

Just to state it clearly - I neither defend nor attack the game/ZOS - I am just sad, that a game with such a high potential is not better maintained and that quality assurance is so low. I love this game and want it to succeed, so I point out things, where I think it could be better, but do as well praise it and ZOS for things, which they are doing great - that both is there at the same time, on one side excellent work, and on the other side so careless work, is what saddens me deeply.

Miwerton

Well if anything we have learned from the devs it is that they don't truly care about the game itself.

They show next to nothing up in theyre live shows and what they do say is so predicteble that its depressing.

Dont even bother to aknowledge the countless bugs and exploits the game is riddled with, and the very rare cases they do show up on the forums they immediately leave cause they might face the consequences of theyre poor work performance, which they seem have next to nothing of. The other teams such as artwork and music are mostly put in the shadows, since trying to enjoy a game where most main functions are broken and disfunctional it's hard since that is what most will put theyre attention to.

And at this point i think ZOS_GinaBruno pretty much feels like the guy having to deal out crufixions.
https://youtu.be/9knToyK-wUs

Preyfar

audrieltheelf wrote: »

From what I know they listen to the trade guilds more than anything. I wish they'd implement an open door system and publish "minutes" for their meetings with the guilds. Being in ESE I know they talk to the leader of that guild but all we get are little snips of what is discussed. There have been MMO's in the past that were transparent when they met with the community. I would love to see something like that from Zenimax.

And some of those trade guilds have people who work well with the PVP community and other PVP guilds who try to push concerns and suggestions to help make improvements.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Cherryblossom wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys wonder why they dont post a lot of the forums? This is why. Anytime they say anything you guys attack them. Not just a light constructive attack either but personal insults. So when you wonder why they dont post on these forums much go look in the mirror and say to that person "stop it!".

I can only assume you have not been here long!

If you had been here for a while you would know the the Dev's have never engaged with the community on this forum, you would also know it takes months of continual posts about bugs or stupid implementation of changes, for the Devs to make a comment or acknowledge the Bug.

The community has become more hostile towards ZOS over time, @Lysette has for a long time been a defender of the game, but as you can see they also see the failings of ZOS to communicate with the community.

Personally I've given up on ever getting any meaningful dialog with ZOS and I've been asking since launch for them to be more active on the forum, a simple we are aware or we will take a look would do, but we don't even get that, just the be nice messages and SOON, no ETA.....

I havent been here long?! Have you seen my name. Ive been here since the first day these forums were up.

Durham

Waffennacht wrote: »

See imo the game is great and the salty posts prove it. Why?

Because for the most part it's all about the inner mechanics and not the game itself.

For example arguing about the OPness of stam vs magicka instead of, "my crosshairs never line up!"

Example: ill never play another dark souls game, the control mechanics made the game superficially difficult, aiming was horrid, movement was a pain etc... nothing about content, the game itself suxed imo. Not true (in lik 99%) of this game.

Or like the Dragon Age games, every single one of them as a way to male an immortal, (seriously) beast. I set that game on highest difficulty, went solo, and still undamageable (also tried allies with friendly fire on, still invincible)

So imo, outside of what I consider normal hiccups, the game is pretty strong.

Lag ?

Lysette

A bug-tracker would be the way to go - where we can look up, which bugs are reported and what the ticket state is. So we could see, what is reported, if someone is working on it and if a ticket is closed yet and by what reason - like "works as intended" "in progress" "resolved" - this would give a good feedback to us as well - not just one way in the other direction.

Edit: and if it cannot be resolved, because it cannot be reproduced - then this, so that we know, we could help with giving more information about how it could possibly be reproduced, so that the bug can be worked on. Just closing a ticket is not very helpful to anybody.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

A bug-tracker would be the way to go - where we can look up, which bugs are reported and what the ticket state is. So we could see, what is reported, if someone is working on it and if a ticket is closed yet and by what reason - like "works as intended" "in progress" "resolved" - this would give a good feedback to us as well - not just one way in the other direction.

Sounds like a lot of work to me. Id rather they spend that time fixing things or making things.

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

A bug-tracker would be the way to go - where we can look up, which bugs are reported and what the ticket state is. So we could see, what is reported, if someone is working on it and if a ticket is closed yet and by what reason - like "works as intended" "in progress" "resolved" - this would give a good feedback to us as well - not just one way in the other direction.

Sounds like a lot of work to me. Id rather they spend that time fixing things or making things.

Its actually quite effective, second life does it that way - there are a lot of competent people in the game, mostly IT guys in one way or the other - if they know, ah, they cannot reproduce it, they might try it on different machines and find a way how to. Using the potential which is in a competent player base is not a bad thing to do.

Edit: just an example where a competent playerbase is as well used for science problems - EVE online has now a mini-game implemented, which helps science with complex pattern matching problems - it is a scientific mini-game, but it is actually working on a scientific problem in the real world - it makes sense.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

A bug-tracker would be the way to go - where we can look up, which bugs are reported and what the ticket state is. So we could see, what is reported, if someone is working on it and if a ticket is closed yet and by what reason - like "works as intended" "in progress" "resolved" - this would give a good feedback to us as well - not just one way in the other direction.

Sounds like a lot of work to me. Id rather they spend that time fixing things or making things.

Its actually quite effective, second life does it that way - there are a lot of competent people in the game, mostly IT guys in one way or the other - if they know, ah, they cannot reproduce it, they might try it on different machines and find a way how to. Using the potential which is in a competent player base is not a bad thing to do.

Edit: just an example where a competent playerbase is as well used for science problems - EVE online has now a mini-game implemented, which helps science with complex pattern matching problems - it is a scientific mini-game, but it is actually working on a scientific problem in the real world - it makes sense.

Problem is neither of those games are anywhere the size and scope of ESO. I dont know just stating my opinion. I think they should spend money on content and bug fixes. I dont really need a bug tracker we have that on the forums. Just my opinion tho everyone has a different opinion sometimes.

Lysette

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

A bug-tracker would be the way to go - where we can look up, which bugs are reported and what the ticket state is. So we could see, what is reported, if someone is working on it and if a ticket is closed yet and by what reason - like "works as intended" "in progress" "resolved" - this would give a good feedback to us as well - not just one way in the other direction.

Sounds like a lot of work to me. Id rather they spend that time fixing things or making things.

Its actually quite effective, second life does it that way - there are a lot of competent people in the game, mostly IT guys in one way or the other - if they know, ah, they cannot reproduce it, they might try it on different machines and find a way how to. Using the potential which is in a competent player base is not a bad thing to do.

Edit: just an example where a competent playerbase is as well used for science problems - EVE online has now a mini-game implemented, which helps science with complex pattern matching problems - it is a scientific mini-game, but it is actually working on a scientific problem in the real world - it makes sense.

Problem is neither of those games are anywhere the size and scope of ESO. I dont know just stating my opinion. I think they should spend money on content and bug fixes. I dont really need a bug tracker we have that on the forums. Just my opinion tho everyone has a different opinion sometimes.

But exactly this is the advantage - sometimes even people can help, who are not really knowledgeable in the problem field. But they ask in another way, approach the problem eventually in a different way - an this can give the team working on it a different perspective, to check something out, what theyx did not think of or which never came to their mind. Solutions are often found, when you question what is deemed an unquestionable truth - it might not be one.

I use this technique when I talk about my work with people, who have basically nothing to do with my field - sometimes (much like children do it) they ask questions where I am just baffled - why the heck did I not ask me that - and it gives me a new idea or is triggering one and this might lead to the solution - that is why I am doing that and why EVE is doing that - people not related to the problem but with a different way to ask or approach a puzzle (like protein-folding is for example) can help a lot due to their unconventional way to approach the problem.

Edit: player count is not always equal to complexity of the game - second life might not have millions of players anymore, but it is highly complex due to nearly 100% player-made content, due to that external computers can connect to it and in game items can access the internet and connect to external servers. Second life is much more complex than any game out there, just due to this external integration.

Asherons_Call

Hey, after the year long text chat for consoles they are finally adding it, so I know they are listening.. (Just not responding quick enough for some )

Lysette

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Hey, after the year long text chat for consoles they are finally adding it, so I know they are listening.. (Just not responding quick enough for some )

Yes, even to small things they are reacting - after some time - like my characters in the character selection screen have now their correct height and are no longer stretched or compressed - a small thing, but it is nice to see, they cared.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Hey, after the year long text chat for consoles they are finally adding it, so I know they are listening.. (Just not responding quick enough for some )

I was wondering how will anyone interact without text chat. Can you imagine trade being all people talking instead of typing? Never understood why text chat wasnt a thing from the very beginning on consoles.

TheValkyn

This interview was an absolute waste of not only the player's time but also Rich's along with the article's publisher and editor. Go into an interview or press event with something to announce or don't go at all. Zenimax should know this.

Lysette

TheValkyn wrote: »

This interview was an absolute waste of not only the player's time but also Rich's and the article publisher and editor. Go into an interview or press event with something to announce or don't go at all. Zenimax should know this.

Yes, like I said, an empty shell, just like politicians do it - it is just to be present in the press and get mentioned - it's PR.

nimander99

Lets assume for a moment that the Dev's count number of active players and number of active players spending money as a success in their book.

And judging by the amount of people I see in game running around in/with CS costumes, mounts and pets I would say a majority of people are either sub-ing and using crowns for CS purchases or they are just flat out buying crowns.

Under the above metric then the game is successful and the dev's have every right to be proud of where the game is.

But of course the elitist forum users which make up a MINORITY of the game absolutely hate everything and view all change as evil horrible capitalism.

The game IS in a good place, all of my guilds still have full rosters of active players but I understand maybe others have a dif experience but think about the people and guilds you join and you may see a theme. I tend to join easy going casual working class adult guilds, and they are on every day playing away w/o a single complaint and spending money if they feel like it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

But wait I thought people wanted more of this. Now you are saying unless they have something major to announce they shouldn't do any interviews?

nimander99

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Player feedback is absolutely something we take into account though when determining future fixes or new systems. One really important bit of feedback that we took to heart was that immersion and story are super important, but not at the expense of being able to easily play with a friend or significant other. We’ve spent a lot of time fixing player separation issues since launch and all of the new content we’ve built since then takes this feedback into account.

Does he even read the forums? Trust me "I want more immersion and story!" are not popular thread titles.

I am always advocating for more immersion and story... In fact I see constant posts asking for more immersion.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

nimander99 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Player feedback is absolutely something we take into account though when determining future fixes or new systems. One really important bit of feedback that we took to heart was that immersion and story are super important, but not at the expense of being able to easily play with a friend or significant other. We’ve spent a lot of time fixing player separation issues since launch and all of the new content we’ve built since then takes this feedback into account.

Does he even read the forums? Trust me "I want more immersion and story!" are not popular thread titles.

I am always advocating for more immersion and story... In fact I see constant posts asking for more immersion.

The story is the only reason I play these games.

Lysette

nimander99 wrote: »

Lets assume for a moment that the Dev's count number of active players and number of active players spending money as a success in their book.

And judging by the amount of people I see in game running around in/with CS costumes, mounts and pets I would say a majority of people are either sub-ing and using crowns for CS purchases or they are just flat out buying crowns.

Under the above metric then the game is successful and the dev's have every right to be proud of where the game is.

But of course the elitist forum users which make up a MINORITY of the game absolutely hate everything and view all change as evil horrible capitalism.

The game IS in a good place, all of my guilds still have full rosters of active players but I understand maybe others have a dif experience but think about the people and guilds you join and you may see a theme. I tend to join easy going casual working class adult guilds, and they are on every day playing away w/o a single complaint and spending money if they feel like it.

I agree,, the game is doing well - especially this weekend I have seen a high amount of new players, the starter zone was crowded. I think there might have been a weekend sale or something, the sudden rise in new player is amazing.

But that has nothing to do with quality assurance and how they handle bugs - these players can as easily as they came to the game come to the conclusion, this is bugged and no fun due to this - and they might leave as fast as they came - a weekend sale price is not something what would keep them in game - it takes a bit more effort - like an actual working product. A lot of this is not to be seen when you are new, but it is more an more obvious the higher in level you get - and what do you think, what new players think, when they see pink horses and the game freezes on them? - this is not a good first impression.

Edit: and there is another factor to it - so far ESO had mainly early adopters, who are here since beta or launch or at least for a year - early adopters put up with a lot of crap, because they are used to having to deal with such issues in a new game - but those who join now, are not early adopters, but regular casual people and they have not much time to play - they expect a working product, they are not willing to put up with crap, because their time is limited and it deserves a quality game - they will leave much faster, if this is not given.

nimander99

Lysette wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Lets assume for a moment that the Dev's count number of active players and number of active players spending money as a success in their book.

And judging by the amount of people I see in game running around in/with CS costumes, mounts and pets I would say a majority of people are either sub-ing and using crowns for CS purchases or they are just flat out buying crowns.

Under the above metric then the game is successful and the dev's have every right to be proud of where the game is.

But of course the elitist forum users which make up a MINORITY of the game absolutely hate everything and view all change as evil horrible capitalism.

The game IS in a good place, all of my guilds still have full rosters of active players but I understand maybe others have a dif experience but think about the people and guilds you join and you may see a theme. I tend to join easy going casual working class adult guilds, and they are on every day playing away w/o a single complaint and spending money if they feel like it.

I agree,, the game is doing well - especially this weekend I have seen a high amount of new players, the starter zone was crowded. I think there might have been a weekend sale or something, the sudden rise in new player is amazing.

But that has nothing to do with quality assurance and how they handle bugs - these players can as easily as they came to the game come to the conclusion, this is bugged and no fun due to this - and they might leave as fast as they came - a weekend sale price is not something what would keep them in game - it takes a bit more effort - like an actual working product. A lot of this is not to be seen when you are new, but it is more an more obvious the higher in level you get - and what do you think, what new players think, when they see pink horses and the game freezes on them? - this is not a good first impression.

Edit: and there is another factor to it - so far ESO had mainly early adopters, who are here since beta or launch or at least for a year - early adopters put up with a lot of crap, because they are used to having to deal with such issues in a new game - but those who join now, are not early adopters, but regular casual people and they have not much time to play - they expect a working product, they are not willing to put up with crap, because their time is limited and it deserves a quality game - they will leave much faster, if this is not given.

Good points.

I don't know though, I'm one of those 'early adopters' but I suppose its more that I have the expectation that mmo's in general are always works in progress.

Lysette

nimander99 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Lets assume for a moment that the Dev's count number of active players and number of active players spending money as a success in their book.

And judging by the amount of people I see in game running around in/with CS costumes, mounts and pets I would say a majority of people are either sub-ing and using crowns for CS purchases or they are just flat out buying crowns.

Under the above metric then the game is successful and the dev's have every right to be proud of where the game is.

But of course the elitist forum users which make up a MINORITY of the game absolutely hate everything and view all change as evil horrible capitalism.

The game IS in a good place, all of my guilds still have full rosters of active players but I understand maybe others have a dif experience but think about the people and guilds you join and you may see a theme. I tend to join easy going casual working class adult guilds, and they are on every day playing away w/o a single complaint and spending money if they feel like it.

I agree,, the game is doing well - especially this weekend I have seen a high amount of new players, the starter zone was crowded. I think there might have been a weekend sale or something, the sudden rise in new player is amazing.

But that has nothing to do with quality assurance and how they handle bugs - these players can as easily as they came to the game come to the conclusion, this is bugged and no fun due to this - and they might leave as fast as they came - a weekend sale price is not something what would keep them in game - it takes a bit more effort - like an actual working product. A lot of this is not to be seen when you are new, but it is more an more obvious the higher in level you get - and what do you think, what new players think, when they see pink horses and the game freezes on them? - this is not a good first impression.

Edit: and there is another factor to it - so far ESO had mainly early adopters, who are here since beta or launch or at least for a year - early adopters put up with a lot of crap, because they are used to having to deal with such issues in a new game - but those who join now, are not early adopters, but regular casual people and they have not much time to play - they expect a working product, they are not willing to put up with crap, because their time is limited and it deserves a quality game - they will leave much faster, if this is not given.

Good points.

I don't know though, I'm one of those 'early adopters' but I suppose its more that I have the expectation that mmo's in general are always works in progress.

Yes, because you are an early adopter - that is why you think that, it is in your experience sphere - but a regular player is different, he expects a game to work properly or if it doesn't, that it gets fixed in a timely manner - they wont wait for months that something what hinders them playing get fixed - their time is too valuable to put up with something like that.

Edit: just an example, I inherited a newbie guild, which is not even 3 months old - most of those in the roster did not login for over 30 days - these are all lost customers - they tried the game, it did not excite them enough, they leave again - 22€ in a sale wasted - but so what, there are other games out there which work. With pink horses, missing textures, fps drops and freezing game their number will be even higher.

Masstershake

Its funny, no matter what mmo i am playing the forums are always the same.

People bashing devs for not listening, and saying the game is going to die. Then someone comes in blindly saying the devs can do no wrong.

Then you get the pvpers crying foul for class imbalance...

Seriously its just a game...the devs cant fix everything with a snap of the finger...otherwise the 5 other mmo games with forums exactly the same as this one claiming devs dont listen wouldn't exist.

Also no mmo can be perfect and anyone blindly following the devs saying they can do no wrong are fools...otherwise there would be no gamebreaking bugs..

And pvp balance is not possible if you want any diversity in a game. If it upsets you find a workaround or just join the FOTM