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Campaing Pride, Alliance Pride
tinythinker
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"Swap war stories, make battle plans, and bond with members of your campaign"
Is that what people really do on this forum? Sometimes, but not overly much. It's a good thought, though.
There are many things that could be improved regarding the Alliance War. I have previously offered a relatively brief and concise post about adding diversity of valuable roles for players of all skill levels/interests, on fun new objectives and rewards to spread players out, to help with pop imbalances, etc. I've even suggested a spying/capture system. That's all well and good. But even if those or similar ideas were implemented, and even if changes to game code and how abilities work meant that lag saw a 50% reduction at peak intensity (i.e. the worst possible ping/fps issues on the most awful nights were only half of what they are now), there is something else that seems to be lacking.
Just what this is was made clear to me after I learned a bit more about another MMORPG in development and a goal that its developers had committed to, a goal to emphasize and encourage pride in the server you PvP on and in the faction you fight for. Sometimes players suggest making one MMO into something that it isn't, into something that goes against its design principles and philosophy, just because they like a feature in another MMO ("Make your game more like WoW, or Guild Wars, or ESO"), but in this case I don't think looking into or advocating for more campaign and alliance pride is that kind of situation.
So what encourages pride in such things? What diminishes pride in such things?
I don't claim to have an accurate or complete list of answers to such questions, so please feel free to share your own thoughts on the matter.
As for me, here are some issues to consider:
You can play any race and class regardless of Alliance
Initially, being any race despite your Alliance was only available to those who pre-ordered the game on PC, but, with the cash shop came the ability to buy this option, because of course. There are only four classes, so naturally it wouldn't make sense to restrict them by Alliance. The result is that people chose a race because of appearance, lore, or min-maxing, but there is nothing that ties the race choice to an Alliance. Therefore, choosing an Alliance gives you no real connection to or bonus bound to race. It's all generic. It's swappable mix-n-match. Just whatever suits you.
Trying *now* to restrict races and classes by Alliance would, of course, be an unworkable nightmare.
Yet there are things that can be added under the "Yes you can play as you want but choices have consequences" philosophy, especially since ZOS is working on things like race changes. I am not suggesting any or all of these must be implemented, just spit-balling some basic ideas:
- a bonus to AP earned (something small like 4-6%) for playing a native race.
- a bonus to resistance for wearing Alliance specific armor in Cyrodiil/Imperial City (again something useful but not too larger, see below for more on such armor) while playing a native race
- add a background system for customization but modify it to take race *and* Alliance into account; the options may be different or limited depending on your Alliance
Again, these changes do no prohibit one from playing an Orc in the Pact or a Nord in the Dominion, but it encourages players to consider their race choice based on the Alliance with which they plan to AvA. Yes, native races get a small to moderate advantage here and there but nothing outrageous. You can play as you want, but choice matters.
As for classes, I know some players want new classes, while others feel that the game is hard enough to balance with the current four. That's why many of us advocate class morphs or specializations, which I support but as a limited thing not a whole new class brought in but called a morph. A rough prototype of that is given here. I think that limited class specialization would jazz up the game, and now I am thinking that such specialization should be Alliance specific. Want to play a Dragonknight in any Alliance? Go for it! Want to have access to a particular specialization once you hit the appropriate level (10? 30? 50?). Better choose the right Alliance.
So, again, yes, you can play any race and class in any Alliance. You can play the way you want. But choice matters. There isn't total homogenization between the Alliances.
You can get the same gear in any Alliance
I've previously suggested adding gear sets available only to members of a particular Alliance as part of a concept of Alliance specific bonuses. I later updated the set bonuses to fit changes in the game. Here they are in their current iteration:
Blood for the Pact - Killing an enemy player has a 4% chance of restoring 20% of player's total health.
The Lion's Roar - When the wearer's health drops below 20% an irresistible fear effect is triggered on nearby enemy players for 5 seconds. This can happen once every 15 seconds.
The Eagle Banner - When the wearer's magicka or stamina drops below 20% the wearer gains a 5000 point damage shield. This can happen once every 15 seconds.
Whether or not you like these set bonuses or would like to see them altered or replaced isn't really the point here. Should they be two-piece like monster sets or 5 piece? Debate it all you want. The important thing is that they are unique set bonuses only available to those who fight for the Pact, the Covenant, or the Dominion. I've suggested different ways to get them, through crafting stations only your Alliance can use at their corner keep (i.e. Drakelowe, Dragonsclaw, Brindle), or as a reward for reaching a certain rank, or something else. But again, it runs counter to homogenization. Want to wear The Lion's Roar set? Roll a DC and earn the right to wear that set by fighting for King Emeric. You can play the way you want, but choice matters.
And by the way, around the same time I was thinking of the idea for adding such gear, in a separate post about plans for the future of the Alliance War and playing in Cyrodiil by PvP Lead Brian Wheeler had independently come up with a similar idea:
The Campaigns primarily only differ in scoring and length and switching Campaigns is easy
Yes, technically one campaign has gated access to IC and some will be made CP-free, but still, there is nothing that different about the campaigns. This was something else that I had previously thought of and was worried about, so a couple of years ago I suggested adding some variety to campaigns. I would like to suggest that notion of adding variety again, even if those linked ideas are not adopted. That said, I particularly like the Standard of Akatosh idea, whatever the actual MacGuffin turns out to be. It fits nicely with other changes I and others have suggested to spread players out, such as having moving capturable flags. The MacGuffin and the reward for chasing it down could be unique to each campaign. Just what bonuses your Alliance gets for capturing and keeping it isn't the point. Let's debate what the different MacGuffins should be for different campaigns and what they should offer, but first, let's agree that campaign uniqueness important to campaign pride and that campaign pride should matter.
Next is the short campaign duration and the ease of switching campaigns. I appreciate why we no longer have 90 day campaigns. I was there. If you got too far behind, you had no chance of winning and had to wait months for a new start. I also appreciate why people want to be able to travel to groups if their friends are in a different campaign or if their home campaign is dead. But at the same time, it makes campaign choice trivial. You can't have pride in something you can swap or jump out of so easily. Triviality and pride are anathema to each other. Just go where you can PvDoor your way to Emp, just go where you can farm weaker Alliances and troll other players. Just go where the action is at any given moment. Whatever. Log back in the next day and ask in /zone, "What campaign is this?" Who cares, LOL? Yeah, that's not really conducive to actually caring about your particular allies and foes and the state of your home campaign.
Well, if agree that campaign pride can make for more enjoyable play over an extended period, something needs to change in terms of how willing people are to jump ship. The cost for switching to a new home in the middle of a campaign cycle is going up, but it's still free at the end of the cycle and you can still group your way anywhere. You only get on the leaderboards by playing on your home campaign but if you aren't doing an Emp run it only takes a day or two, depending on how long your play session lasts, to get to Reward Tier 3.
I don't think it should take longer to get to Tier 3, but what about a Tier 4 that takes three times as long to reach as Tier 3? Maybe a Tier 5 that take even longer to reach, something even hardcore players would have to really keep working at to achieve? Sure you can still campaign hop with a group but there is an incentive to spend more time on your home campaign.
As for switching campaigns, institute a loyalty program. For each campaign cycle you keep the same home campaign you get a cumulative reward. Maybe it's more gold at the end of the campaign. Maybe it's a small bonus to AP earned. Maybe it's both of those, neither, or those plus something else. But make it a worthwhile reward that you lose and have to start accumulating all over again each time you switch your home campaign. So if you get a 1% AP bonus the first cycle on your home campaign, maybe it goes to 2% if you stay another cycle, to 3% for another cycle, and caps at 4%. But that bonus only applies while on your home campaign. You could add that to the above suggested 4% bonus for playing a race native to your Alliance. That's an 8% bonus, on top of anything else, based on choice and pride. Play as you want, but choice matters.
Another thing to consider to facilitate campaign pride is having a more dynamic map that changes based on player activity. Yes, town capture in overland Cyrodiil is coming and district capture in the Imperial City is coming, and those are definitely steps in the right directions. But I strongly recommend addition changes, such as destroying chokepoints. Moreover, I would suggest adding some way to alter the map or the way things work in the campaign that persists for the whole campaign cycle or that only resets very slowly. I am sure players and devs could think of some fun and exciting ways to do that, and by doing so, particular campaigns take on more of their own character and flavor based on the actions of players.
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Thanks for reading. I really think Alliance and Campaign pride, while not completely absent, are severely malnourished in ESO and have dwindled greatly from the game's initial launch in the spring of 2014. I believe that taking actions to add fun new elements to the game that also happen to bolster such pride can be of immense value to ESO in general and to Cyrodiil/the Alliance War in particular. If you agree even a little, please rate and comment and tag others to come and share their ideas for pride building. Let's help show the devs what Cyrodiil could and should be.
***********EDIT: New content has been added. Like or hate or meh the suggestions above? OK. But check this out below.***************
Edited by tinythinker on December 15, 2017 1:05AM Is that what people really do on this forum? Sometimes, but not overly much. It's a good thought, though.
There are many things that could be improved regarding the Alliance War. I have previously offered a relatively brief and concise post about adding diversity of valuable roles for players of all skill levels/interests, on fun new objectives and rewards to spread players out, to help with pop imbalances, etc. I've even suggested a spying/capture system. That's all well and good. But even if those or similar ideas were implemented, and even if changes to game code and how abilities work meant that lag saw a 50% reduction at peak intensity (i.e. the worst possible ping/fps issues on the most awful nights were only half of what they are now), there is something else that seems to be lacking.
Just what this is was made clear to me after I learned a bit more about another MMORPG in development and a goal that its developers had committed to, a goal to emphasize and encourage pride in the server you PvP on and in the faction you fight for. Sometimes players suggest making one MMO into something that it isn't, into something that goes against its design principles and philosophy, just because they like a feature in another MMO ("Make your game more like WoW, or Guild Wars, or ESO"), but in this case I don't think looking into or advocating for more campaign and alliance pride is that kind of situation.
So what encourages pride in such things? What diminishes pride in such things?
I don't claim to have an accurate or complete list of answers to such questions, so please feel free to share your own thoughts on the matter.
As for me, here are some issues to consider:
You can play any race and class regardless of Alliance
Initially, being any race despite your Alliance was only available to those who pre-ordered the game on PC, but, with the cash shop came the ability to buy this option, because of course. There are only four classes, so naturally it wouldn't make sense to restrict them by Alliance. The result is that people chose a race because of appearance, lore, or min-maxing, but there is nothing that ties the race choice to an Alliance. Therefore, choosing an Alliance gives you no real connection to or bonus bound to race. It's all generic. It's swappable mix-n-match. Just whatever suits you.
Trying *now* to restrict races and classes by Alliance would, of course, be an unworkable nightmare.
Yet there are things that can be added under the "Yes you can play as you want but choices have consequences" philosophy, especially since ZOS is working on things like race changes. I am not suggesting any or all of these must be implemented, just spit-balling some basic ideas:
- a bonus to AP earned (something small like 4-6%) for playing a native race.
- a bonus to resistance for wearing Alliance specific armor in Cyrodiil/Imperial City (again something useful but not too larger, see below for more on such armor) while playing a native race
- add a background system for customization but modify it to take race *and* Alliance into account; the options may be different or limited depending on your Alliance
Again, these changes do no prohibit one from playing an Orc in the Pact or a Nord in the Dominion, but it encourages players to consider their race choice based on the Alliance with which they plan to AvA. Yes, native races get a small to moderate advantage here and there but nothing outrageous. You can play as you want, but choice matters.
As for classes, I know some players want new classes, while others feel that the game is hard enough to balance with the current four. That's why many of us advocate class morphs or specializations, which I support but as a limited thing not a whole new class brought in but called a morph. A rough prototype of that is given here. I think that limited class specialization would jazz up the game, and now I am thinking that such specialization should be Alliance specific. Want to play a Dragonknight in any Alliance? Go for it! Want to have access to a particular specialization once you hit the appropriate level (10? 30? 50?). Better choose the right Alliance.
So, again, yes, you can play any race and class in any Alliance. You can play the way you want. But choice matters. There isn't total homogenization between the Alliances.
You can get the same gear in any Alliance
I've previously suggested adding gear sets available only to members of a particular Alliance as part of a concept of Alliance specific bonuses. I later updated the set bonuses to fit changes in the game. Here they are in their current iteration:
Blood for the Pact - Killing an enemy player has a 4% chance of restoring 20% of player's total health.
The Lion's Roar - When the wearer's health drops below 20% an irresistible fear effect is triggered on nearby enemy players for 5 seconds. This can happen once every 15 seconds.
The Eagle Banner - When the wearer's magicka or stamina drops below 20% the wearer gains a 5000 point damage shield. This can happen once every 15 seconds.
Whether or not you like these set bonuses or would like to see them altered or replaced isn't really the point here. Should they be two-piece like monster sets or 5 piece? Debate it all you want. The important thing is that they are unique set bonuses only available to those who fight for the Pact, the Covenant, or the Dominion. I've suggested different ways to get them, through crafting stations only your Alliance can use at their corner keep (i.e. Drakelowe, Dragonsclaw, Brindle), or as a reward for reaching a certain rank, or something else. But again, it runs counter to homogenization. Want to wear The Lion's Roar set? Roll a DC and earn the right to wear that set by fighting for King Emeric. You can play the way you want, but choice matters.
And by the way, around the same time I was thinking of the idea for adding such gear, in a separate post about plans for the future of the Alliance War and playing in Cyrodiil by PvP Lead Brian Wheeler had independently come up with a similar idea:
Hopefully this idea hasn't been scrapped.Alliance War Future – After Imperial City launches, we are looking to add more content into Cyrodiil in some of the emptier locations. We will, of course, continue adding to the Keep system, too. We’re also looking to add more Alliance-specific gear to give more options for individual identity to the Aldmeri, Ebonheart and Daggerfall communities.
The Campaigns primarily only differ in scoring and length and switching Campaigns is easy
Yes, technically one campaign has gated access to IC and some will be made CP-free, but still, there is nothing that different about the campaigns. This was something else that I had previously thought of and was worried about, so a couple of years ago I suggested adding some variety to campaigns. I would like to suggest that notion of adding variety again, even if those linked ideas are not adopted. That said, I particularly like the Standard of Akatosh idea, whatever the actual MacGuffin turns out to be. It fits nicely with other changes I and others have suggested to spread players out, such as having moving capturable flags. The MacGuffin and the reward for chasing it down could be unique to each campaign. Just what bonuses your Alliance gets for capturing and keeping it isn't the point. Let's debate what the different MacGuffins should be for different campaigns and what they should offer, but first, let's agree that campaign uniqueness important to campaign pride and that campaign pride should matter.
Next is the short campaign duration and the ease of switching campaigns. I appreciate why we no longer have 90 day campaigns. I was there. If you got too far behind, you had no chance of winning and had to wait months for a new start. I also appreciate why people want to be able to travel to groups if their friends are in a different campaign or if their home campaign is dead. But at the same time, it makes campaign choice trivial. You can't have pride in something you can swap or jump out of so easily. Triviality and pride are anathema to each other. Just go where you can PvDoor your way to Emp, just go where you can farm weaker Alliances and troll other players. Just go where the action is at any given moment. Whatever. Log back in the next day and ask in /zone, "What campaign is this?" Who cares, LOL? Yeah, that's not really conducive to actually caring about your particular allies and foes and the state of your home campaign.
Well, if agree that campaign pride can make for more enjoyable play over an extended period, something needs to change in terms of how willing people are to jump ship. The cost for switching to a new home in the middle of a campaign cycle is going up, but it's still free at the end of the cycle and you can still group your way anywhere. You only get on the leaderboards by playing on your home campaign but if you aren't doing an Emp run it only takes a day or two, depending on how long your play session lasts, to get to Reward Tier 3.
I don't think it should take longer to get to Tier 3, but what about a Tier 4 that takes three times as long to reach as Tier 3? Maybe a Tier 5 that take even longer to reach, something even hardcore players would have to really keep working at to achieve? Sure you can still campaign hop with a group but there is an incentive to spend more time on your home campaign.
As for switching campaigns, institute a loyalty program. For each campaign cycle you keep the same home campaign you get a cumulative reward. Maybe it's more gold at the end of the campaign. Maybe it's a small bonus to AP earned. Maybe it's both of those, neither, or those plus something else. But make it a worthwhile reward that you lose and have to start accumulating all over again each time you switch your home campaign. So if you get a 1% AP bonus the first cycle on your home campaign, maybe it goes to 2% if you stay another cycle, to 3% for another cycle, and caps at 4%. But that bonus only applies while on your home campaign. You could add that to the above suggested 4% bonus for playing a race native to your Alliance. That's an 8% bonus, on top of anything else, based on choice and pride. Play as you want, but choice matters.
Another thing to consider to facilitate campaign pride is having a more dynamic map that changes based on player activity. Yes, town capture in overland Cyrodiil is coming and district capture in the Imperial City is coming, and those are definitely steps in the right directions. But I strongly recommend addition changes, such as destroying chokepoints. Moreover, I would suggest adding some way to alter the map or the way things work in the campaign that persists for the whole campaign cycle or that only resets very slowly. I am sure players and devs could think of some fun and exciting ways to do that, and by doing so, particular campaigns take on more of their own character and flavor based on the actions of players.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thanks for reading. I really think Alliance and Campaign pride, while not completely absent, are severely malnourished in ESO and have dwindled greatly from the game's initial launch in the spring of 2014. I believe that taking actions to add fun new elements to the game that also happen to bolster such pride can be of immense value to ESO in general and to Cyrodiil/the Alliance War in particular. If you agree even a little, please rate and comment and tag others to come and share their ideas for pride building. Let's help show the devs what Cyrodiil could and should be.
***********EDIT: New content has been added. Like or hate or meh the suggestions above? OK. But check this out below.***************
❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this
11
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Serjustin19✭✭✭✭✭Thank you for writing this. Awesome suggestion you made. Good work
Formerly Serjustin19, Save for Forum Of Course.... Fiery_Darkness (PC NA) currently.0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Serjustwhy wrote: »Thank you for writing this. Awesome suggestion you made. Good work
Thanks for your kind comment, I just want to see the Alliance War go from what it was in Beta to a more complete state. There have been a lot of little changes here and there over the past two years but serious progress seems stalled.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this1 -
RAGUNAnoOne✭✭✭✭✭
✭About your sets: blood for the pact=crap because in addition to a low proc chance and not enough healing you have to land a killing blow which can't always happen in raids plus NBs can do this anyways with mark. Lions roar=OP imagine a raid full wearing THAT no way. Eagles banner=crap the shield is WAY too low to be viable
Edit 2 Perhaps like something more like boost X of nearby group members in combat and has added effects on certain races to keep with your theme of native races (I hope pact gear has something good as they need the boost the most)
Edit 1: Also AP and native alliance Bonus for races I am not sure how that would play out especially since emperors can already get such a huge head start and DC and especially AD need no help in that regard and how would imperials be counted into the picture?
But I dolike campaign loyalty and hows about you make a program where if you gain AP on an alt in the same campaign it negatively affects you later
Note to self: don't post when too sleepy to read the WHOLE post lolEdited by RAGUNAnoOne on March 6, 2016 12:41AMPS4 NA
Argonian Master Race
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Support Tail armor and tail ribbons: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236333/concept-tail-armor-for-beast-races#latest
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246134/request-dyeable-tail-ribbons0 -
Skyy✭✭✭While I like the concept of campaign loyalty I disagree with your race/alliance issue. The races are not well balanced among the alliances so trying to force races on an alliance where their races are not good for much (EP) would be terrible for balance issues.0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While I like the concept of campaign loyalty I disagree with your race/alliance issue. The races are not well balanced among the alliances so trying to force races on an alliance where their races are not good for much (EP) would be terrible for balance issues.
And could you point out precisely where, in what I wrote, people would forced to play a race based on Alliance?❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »About your sets: blood for the pact=crap because in addition to a low proc chance and not enough healing you have to land a killing blow which can't always happen in raids plus NBs can do this anyways with mark. Lions roar=OP imagine a raid full wearing THAT no way. Eagles banner=crap the shield is WAY too low to be viable
Edit 2 Perhaps like something more like boost X of nearby group members in combat and has added effects on certain races to keep with your theme of native races (I hope pact gear has something good as they need the boost the most)
Edit 1: Also AP and native alliance Bonus for races I am not sure how that would play out especially since emperors can already get such a huge head start and DC and especially AD need no help in that regard and how would imperials be counted into the picture?
But I dolike campaign loyalty and hows about you make a program where if you gain AP on an alt in the same campaign it negatively affects you later
Note to self: don't post when too sleepy to read the WHOLE post lol
People can debate set bonuses, but the basic concept of Alliance-specific gear was part of the larger concept of Alliance pride, which is the main focus (along with campaign pride). I initially tossed those specific bonuses out a long time ago just to give a tangible set of examples, so I am open to people reworking them.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Alliance pride is a joke with caldwell silver and gold, cross faction guilds, trade, comms, multiple alliance chars on same account...
Add to that emp arrangements, ap trading and ppl switching alliance when in struggle and you have a unpassionate pvp game in which nothing matters.2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I like many of your ideas, very interesting suggestions. Don't forget to tag @ZOS_BrianWheeler.
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tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But do you feel that such pride is important, and that boosting it could improve the gameplay experience for yourself and others?houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Alliance pride is a joke with caldwell silver and gold, cross faction guilds, trade, comms, multiple alliance chars on same account...
Add to that emp arrangements, ap trading and ppl switching alliance when in struggle and you have a unpassionate pvp game in which nothing matters.
I don't mind Cadwell's quests so much in terms of Alliance pride, as they are a fun way to explore more content without having to re-roll, but, that's just me and I can appreciate why other people see it as an issue. That is a deeply embedded feature of the game, yet, as more DLC is released players will have additional options for how to progress, especially with the removal of the Veteran Ranks system. Cadwell's quests will become more and more optional.
As for some kind of faction lock, if I take your meaning, someone in another thread recently mentioned having some bonus for having all (or at least 4) characters in the same Alliance, but, again, having characters in more than one Alliance is something deeply embedded in the current game. I'm open to idea to encourage, as opposed to forcing, players to stick to one Alliance, but I don't want to wait on that to move forward.
Emp trading, keep trading, etc is a common problem in MMOs, and I am open to suggestions on how to fix it. I know one game is planning to delay rewards for faction vs faction play to check the data for signs of such abuses, but I don't see that as practical for ESO. If anyone has a solution please share, but, again, that's a long wait for train that might never come.
In other words, I don't fundamentally disagree with you about the things you mention causing issues for many people in terms of campaign and Alliance pride, yet, I still think there are many honest players, old and new, who would appreciate taking steps to grow/restore such pride. Nothing I've suggested is a panacea for the pride issue, but I do believe that my suggestions and those others may make here can substantially move things in a better direction. I would at least like to try to garner feedback and support and make such ideas known to the devs than wait for changes to heavily embedded game features or problems that are epidemic to most faction vs faction MMORPG play.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like many of your ideas, very interesting suggestions. Don't forget to tag @ZOS_BrianWheeler.
I had him tagged originally but it seemed too pushy. Thanks for reading. Which one or two ideas would you most want to see? Edited by tinythinker on March 6, 2016 5:39PM❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭tinythinker wrote: »
But do you feel that such pride is important, and that boosting it could improve the gameplay experience for yourself and others?houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Alliance pride is a joke with caldwell silver and gold, cross faction guilds, trade, comms, multiple alliance chars on same account...
Add to that emp arrangements, ap trading and ppl switching alliance when in struggle and you have a unpassionate pvp game in which nothing matters.
I don't mind Cadwell's quests so much in terms of Alliance pride, as they are a fun way to explore more content without having to re-roll, but, that's just me and I can appreciate why other people see it as an issue. That is a deeply embedded feature of the game, yet, as more DLC is released players will have additional options for how to progress, especially with the removal of the Veteran Ranks system. Cadwell's quests will become more and more optional.
As for some kind of faction lock, if I take your meaning, someone in another thread recently mentioned having some bonus for having all (or at least 4) characters in the same Alliance, but, again, having characters in more than one Alliance is something deeply embedded in the current game. I'm open to idea to encourage, as opposed to forcing, players to stick to one Alliance, but I don't want to wait on that to move forward.
Emp trading, keep trading, etc is a common problem in MMOs, and I am open to suggestions on how to fix it. I know one game is planning to delay rewards for faction vs faction play to check the data for signs of such abuses, but I don't see that as practical for ESO. If anyone has a solution please share, but, again, that's a long wait for train that might never come.
In other words, I don't fundamentally disagree with you about the things you mention causing issues for many people in terms of campaign and Alliance pride, yet, I still think there are many honest players, old and new, who would appreciate taking steps to grow/restore such pride. Nothing I've suggested is a panacea for the pride issue, but I do believe that my suggestions and those others may make here can substantially move things in a better direction. I would at least like to try to garner feedback and support and make such ideas known to the devs than wait for changes to heavily embedded game features or problems that are epidemic to most faction vs faction MMORPG play.
I think we passed rubicon on this issue that is a competitive AvA system.
Although, a way to make it better? Maybe by marking players who has multiple characters in different alliance with a big red T on its face. Perhaps allow alliance members to vote a certain players ou of the alliance as a traitor and attackable. Or making players able to choose a neutral alliance attackable by all. While we are at it, enable same alliance guild to war one another, outside of alliance war mechanics (no AP, no ranks) so they can settle things. That would at least bring dept into the politics of AvA in Cyrodiil.1 -
Sinnammu✭✭As someone who loves to play for the campaign I found this in the patch notes yesterday and was quite shocked:
"Removed the alliance restrictions for campaign reassignments; you may now have characters from any alliance assigned to the same campaign."
I already tried this just to see, and it works.
- Means you can compete against yourself now - what is this good for?
- Means you can have three chars of all colours there and just wait who will be winning in the end and switch over. I am afraid some or many people will do this, because it is so easy now.
- Means everyone with a new name to you could be a spy now. You just don't know. You'll be fighting alongside with the enemies of your faction. Communicating in zone chat, coordinating your faction - better be silent now!
Playing solo or in small scale (or low levels on vet campaigns, which sometimes is really fun) could be difficult - due to restricted zone communication and suspicion of being spies.
Now that sounds fun! (sarcasm - ofc)
There have been some spies before - but rather like grains of salt in the soup, a challenge - but now the doors are wide open!
People may lose their friends because they just want to try the other faction (which is visible in friends & guilds lists)... people may lose their morals and try to spy and ruin everyones PvP experience ... unless you are just playing for AP.
I wouldn't blame any player now for "cheating their alliance" or spying - this was a decision made by ZOS I do not understand at all
But my alliance and campaign pride feels deeply wounded now, as if it has been turned into a bad joke.
I hope it will not turn out as bad as I am afraid now! I really hope!
Edited by Sinnammu on March 8, 2016 12:35PM2 -
Reb✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Alliance pride is a joke with caldwell silver and gold, cross faction guilds, trade, comms, multiple alliance chars on same account...
Add to that emp arrangements, ap trading and ppl switching alliance when in struggle and you have a unpassionate pvp game in which nothing matters.
This pretty much sums it up ...Alliance is meaningless now0 -
Reb✭✭✭As someone who loves to play for the campaign I found this in the patch notes yesterday and was quite shocked:
"Removed the alliance restrictions for campaign reassignments; you may now have characters from any alliance assigned to the same campaign."
I already tried this just to see, and it works.
- Means you can compete against yourself now - what is this good for?
- Means you can have three chars of all colours there and just wait who will be winning in the end and switch over. I am afraid some or many people will do this, because it is so easy now.
- Means everyone with a new name to you could be a spy now. You just don't know. You'll be fighting alongside with the enemies of your faction. Communicating in zone chat, coordinating your faction - better be silent now!
Playing solo or in small scale (or low levels on vet campaigns, which sometimes is really fun) could be difficult - due to restricted zone communication and suspicion of being spies.
Now that sounds fun! (sarcasm - ofc)
There have been some spies before - but rather like grains of salt in the soup, a challenge - but now the doors are wide open!
People may lose their friends because they just want to try the other faction (which is visible in friends & guilds lists)... people may lose their morals and try to spy and ruin everyones PvP experience ... unless you are just playing for AP.
I wouldn't blame any player now for "cheating their alliance" or spying - this was a decision made by ZOS I do not understand at all
But my alliance and campaign pride feels deeply wounded now, as if it has been turned into a bad joke.
I hope it will not turn out as bad as I am afraid now! I really hope!
Agreed ..it was bad enough that groups could campaign hop through the group travel option, this is just going to make it much worse0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Example: when I was on vacation I would wake up every morning to farm in the sewers.
Every morning I would fight and kill a EP player repeatedly (im AD) as we fought for the control of a farm spot. The guy hated me. When he would gank me with friends he would tbag me and If i havent had him on ignore he would have had gave me *** most likely. He started to modify his setup to kill me 1v1. It was a healthy rivalry.
Then the next rotation of the campaign I found out that the same guy had a AD toon and that he climbed no1 on leaderboards on early days. Ended up fighting to give emp to this guy. It felt extremely wrong.
As an old school DAoC player, I though that was a huge downer on taking competition seriously.0 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭DC or DIE!
that is all...@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I think we are just going to have to wait for Camelot Unchained to have alliance / realm pride again. It hasn't existed since DAOC, but I think it will come back with Camelot Unchained.0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Example: when I was on vacation I would wake up every morning to farm in the sewers.
Every morning I would fight and kill a EP player repeatedly (im AD) as we fought for the control of a farm spot. The guy hated me. When he would gank me with friends he would tbag me and If i havent had him on ignore he would have had gave me *** most likely. He started to modify his setup to kill me 1v1. It was a healthy rivalry.
Then the next rotation of the campaign I found out that the same guy had a AD toon and that he climbed no1 on leaderboards on early days. Ended up fighting to give emp to this guy. It felt extremely wrong.
As an old school DAoC player, I though that was a huge downer on taking competition seriously.
Things like this are why a lot of us are just waiting for Camelot Unchained. Beta starts this month2 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Example: when I was on vacation I would wake up every morning to farm in the sewers.
Every morning I would fight and kill a EP player repeatedly (im AD) as we fought for the control of a farm spot. The guy hated me. When he would gank me with friends he would tbag me and If i havent had him on ignore he would have had gave me *** most likely. He started to modify his setup to kill me 1v1. It was a healthy rivalry.
Then the next rotation of the campaign I found out that the same guy had a AD toon and that he climbed no1 on leaderboards on early days. Ended up fighting to give emp to this guy. It felt extremely wrong.
As an old school DAoC player, I though that was a huge downer on taking competition seriously.
Things like this are why a lot of us are just waiting for Camelot Unchained. Beta starts this month
My body is ready man 1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I would like less homeginization of the alliances and zones
They should be made more unique and there should be more things to ecourage allinace loyalty.
I don't like that as an SP player I can play through the DC and AD stories.
Makes Alliance choice kind of meaningless.0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, having something to set them apart other than geography and banner color would be nice. But I don't think that concern is remotely on the ZOS radar.I would like less homeginization of the alliances and zones
They should be made more unique and there should be more things to ecourage allinace loyalty.
❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys, as much as these are interesting ideas, this is a rather impressive example of thread necromancy. Mannimarco approves, but ZOS doesn't.
If you want to discuss this again, you should start a new thread.
Edited by VaranisArano on December 14, 2017 2:24AM0 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭What’s with all these necrosis riddled exhumations are we that bored I know I amEdited by Kram8ion on December 14, 2017 2:35AMAussie lag is real!0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Guys, as much as these are interesting ideas, this is a rather impressive example of thread necromancy. Mannimarco approves, but ZOS doesn't.
If you want to discuss this again, you should start a new thread.
Actually, if the issue is still relevant they usually don't have a problem with picking up old threads. No other thread has this discussion, and the issue is still relevant. Basically, a new thread would be like, "Hey, here's a link to a bunch of stuff in another thread, let's talk about it here." Even though someone has already resurfaced this one. If you think something is interesting, discuss that please. If it doesn't get traction, it will sink again. No worries.Edited by tinythinker on December 14, 2017 3:36AM❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alliance/campaign pride were dead long before this thread was made. Despite the act of necromancy committed here, no amount of necromancical skill can bring faction pride back to this game.2013
rip decibel0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Night/day capping is the new "Alliance/campaign pride"
"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, that's why the thread was originally created. To encourage its revival.Alliance/campaign pride were dead long before this thread was made.
Cyro didn't do as well as it seemed that they originally planned for, and they wanted to reduce faction blocks among friends by unlocking campaigns to playing more than one faction at a time on an account and by adding One Tamriel for PvE questing. That pretty much made faction pride moot. But it *could* be boosted if that was a priority. I don't think, though, that it is for ZOS. I wouldn't mind being wrong about that, though.
I also think it's a shame though because it would add flavor to Cyro and possibly give some extra rewards and achievements at the same time.
Edited by tinythinker on December 14, 2017 3:59AM❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭More Recent Threads on the Subject:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/379090/just-another-reason-why-we-need-faction-lock-or-something-to-stop-this-kind-of-stuff-from-happening/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/377022/poll-1-alliance-per-campaign-vote#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384110/ideas-for-cyrodiil-thread#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372267/how-i-would-fix-pvp-how-would-you#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373946/bring-back-1-alliance-character-per-campaign#latest
If none of these exactly fit your bill, please start a new thread instead of resurrecting one from a year ago.0
