Lava Whip

Erondil

Dragonknights don't need stam whip.

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you find that Stam DK's are at the bottom of the food chain? :S
Stam anything is in a very good position.

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

LOVE THE TURTLE

You couldnt be more wrong. Stam dk is the best specc for 1v1 as long as you know how to bash cancel. (Just take a look at the result of latest EU Arena's duel tournament) In openworld however its not as strong because less mobility than sorc or nb.

Kutsuu

L2P.

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Cloak does not grant bonus damage the way that sneak attack from crouch does. The only bonus that a NB gets attacking from cloak is a 10% bonus to weapon damage passive when invis/sneak (the race-bonuses only apply to sneak, not invisibility), and if they are silly enough to choose the crit morph of cloak they will gain a 70% increased chance to crit.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

Never said it was the weakest. It's not the weakest but easily trumped by Magicka Sorcs and NBs in the fact that they do succeed with more ease (not saying it's easy) in almost all types of PVP situations, it's good on it's own but giving both types of DKs an instant DPS skill would help bring another class on the same level without having to nerf another class to "balance" the game PVP wise. (and for the sake of PVE moar stam DK DPS)

frozywozy

Make Flame Lash a stamina based morph.

Kutsuu wrote: »

You're just overflowing with excuses. The only class-based instant stamina/physical ability belongs to NB. Everyone else has options to either choose channeled or instant damage from the bow/sword+board/2h/DW weapon lines. Many DKs choose to use 1h/shield should they desire an instant damage ability. Let's keep in mind that there are MANY skill lines in this game, and only 3 are class-based. This gives you the option to pick an ability from a non-class skill line when you don't have a class ability that fits your desires, and it doesn't mean that your class is bad when you "have to" use a non-class ability.

You're offering cloak as a reason that you think NBs have better healing than DKs... that doesn't make sense. Not only are there many ways to counter it, but it's not a healing ability. Again, major mending from igneous directly modifies the heals that all of the stamina classes use - Rally and Vigor. It's no small bonus, either.

No. Simply no. Let me show you how a fight goes between an experienced stam DK against an experience stam NB.

On the stam DK side :

1) Prebuff with Rally, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Vigor (procs my powerful assault at the same time).
2) Wait for the nightblade to open from stealth
3) CC break from the instant fear as soon as possible (usually the NB can lands a surprise attack successfully)
4) Reapply Shuffle to remove the snare from fear
5) Fossilize the NB
6) Start casting WB (99.99999999999% of the time, the NB cc break and dodge roll away in time)
7) Charge him, try to WB him as he spams cloak, dodge roll and wait for the fear immunity to runs out
8) Go back to 1)

This leads to the conclusion that a stam nightblade has near to no buffs to precast on himself to survive in any fight against a stam DK. It also means that he doesn't need to spend as many defensive champion points (resistant, tumbling, etc) as a stam DK does. He spends those points in nodes that increase his damage even more instead. And finally, he is free to reset the fight at ANY TIME during the engagement since all the cloak counters are crap. The only one that is still pretty decent is Steel Tornado but they intend to nerf its range in the next major update to help counter the blobs. Great isn't it?

As people pointed out, the only way to kill a nightblade is to catch him with wrecking blow once and follow up with take flight and executionner. But most stam nightblades will never get hit by wrecking blow. It is way too easy for them to either fear it, cloak it or dodge roll it. Surprise attack and jabs are way better.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you find that Stam DK's are at the bottom of the food chain? :S
Stam anything is in a very good position.

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

LOVE THE TURTLE

You couldnt be more wrong. Stam dk is the best specc for 1v1 as long as you know how to bash cancel. (Just take a look at the result of latest EU Arena's duel tournament) In openworld however its not as strong because less mobility than sorc or nb.

Yes, yes, yes, I've heard. But it isn't that fun being confined to sword and board for DPS, is it? It's a lot more clunky than a simple suprise attack that hits harder, can stun when paired w/ cloak and enables major fracture, which can be used on any weapon.

Ishammael

L2P.

"Sustainable burst damage" is (should) be an oxymoron in terms.

This thread is a joke.

Seriously, L2P. Stam DK stronk. Go watch the most recent EU dueling video.

Master_Kas

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Your posts is what's pathetic. Did I say stamina Dk is strong because they can pull off instagibs ? Learn 2 Read.
I said its funny how YOU act like stamina DK is at the "bottom of the food chain" which it clearly isnt.

NB can be pretty elusive with cloak/teleport shade but that's what the class is all about. And what I'm saying is true, unless you're facing horrible players even as a stamina nb who can vanish from time to time, you will get roflstomped. Because as a stamina build you cant cloak forever and even cloak got it's counters.

Link to the thread with the video and timestamps for each fight:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234929/arena-guild-pc-eu-glorious-pvp-duel-tournament-aftervideo-more-than-one-hour-of-epic-action#latest

frozywozy

Make Flame Lash a stamina based morph.

Kutsuu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Cloak does not grant bonus damage the way that sneak attack from crouch does. The only bonus that a NB gets attacking from cloak is a 10% bonus to weapon damage passive when invis/sneak (the race-bonuses only apply to sneak, not invisibility), and if they are silly enough to choose the crit morph of cloak they will gain a 70% increased chance to crit.

I have no idea why you're debating between cloak and sneak damage. My point was that someone was trying to tell me that Alcast is a competitive stam DK and that his playstyle greatly shows how better are stam DKs againt any other stam class.

I replied to that that when I see Alcast actually engaging multiple enemies into a 1vX fight instead of simply one shotting people from stealth or fighting with the assistance of a templar healer, I will believe it.

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Your posts is what's pathetic. Did I say stamina Dk is strong because they can pull off instagibs ? Learn 2 Read.
I said its funny how YOU act like stamina DK is at the "bottom of the food chain" which it clearly isnt.

NB can be pretty elusive with cloak/teleport shade but that's what the class is all about. And what I'm saying is true, unless you're facing horrible players even as a stamina nb who can vanish from time to time, you will get roflstomped. Because as a stamina build you cant cloak forever and even cloak got it's counters.

Link to the thread with the video and timestamps for each fight:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234929/arena-guild-pc-eu-glorious-pvp-duel-tournament-aftervideo-more-than-one-hour-of-epic-action#latest

Oh I see. One hand shield stam DKs with Bash/LA/Ransack animation cancelling? No thanks.

hammayolettuce

IDGAF.

FIX MAGICKA DK.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

Kutsuu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Cloak does not grant bonus damage the way that sneak attack from crouch does. The only bonus that a NB gets attacking from cloak is a 10% bonus to weapon damage passive when invis/sneak (the race-bonuses only apply to sneak, not invisibility), and if they are silly enough to choose the crit morph of cloak they will gain a 70% increased chance to crit.

Actually it's 100% as of 1.6 I believe.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

hammayolettuce wrote: »

FIX MAGICKA DK.

*COUGH* @Wrobel *COUGH*

P.S: I'm the real Vort. Hue hue hue.

hammayolettuce

IDGAF.

I actually wish I could change my vote to not having a stam whip morph. Magicka DK is so broken, the last thing we need is more options taken away. By the way, you want sustainable burst damage? How about that stam leap? Battle roar, amirite?

And I am saying this as someone who has played Magicka DK from beta until 1.7 and then dabbled in stam DK. Yeah, sure- running 2h is clunky, but stam builds are meant to be *primarily* weapon-based. Yes I know that templars have jabs, but frankly, I think that class has other abilities that synergize way better with a stam build, which is why I run 2h/DW on my stamplars. I don't think that stam whip is the answer for DKs.

Asmael

L2P.

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

There's a reason why stamina Dragonknights are at the near bottom of the food chain

I read that and figured "this man is a troll".

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

we have no sustainable burst damage. We're forced to spamming WB for our main source of DPS (which is easily avoidable with LoS since there's a cast time) or spamming puncture & reverb, both being slow, weak, and boring play styles compared to those of NBs and Sorcs.

Wrong.

Ok, so, this is exactly what's wrong with you: you THINK you require WB and that SnB is weak.

Stam DK is absolutely fine, and I say this because I am running one. Yes, it requires perfect animation cancelling for maximum DPS output, but stam DKs are monsters, which is why buffing magicka DKs has to be done with caution, otherwise stam DKs will be overpowered.

Not only this, but you want Lava whip? Fire damage? Good luck with it, even if there's a stamina whip, I'll stick to Ransack to benefit from my CPs, thank you very much.

Also... WB in duel... Sorry but no.

Don't touch magicka DK's whips, they need it pretty badly.

Alcast

L2P.

@frozywozy

I could set myself up with a more sustained build, but I am in cyrodiil for the LoLs. It is the playstyle I chose. Versus some builds I do never have a chance to win unless I get super lucky, but at least I tried and that is what counts. Ofc I could run away or bolt/cloak like 90% of Sorcs/Nbs /QQstyle. But that is just not my playstyle. Either he or me dies.

And ofc you can 1vx but only vs nabs. There is no 1vx vs several or even 2 decent players in this miserable patch with 50% dmg mitgation. Ofcourse sometimes I get lucky and just rek some of them, but thats luck and maybe lag, bug, or w/e.

In the end, Stamina DK is not in a bad position compared to other setups like Stamplar, StamSorc which are def on the bottom.

A StamWhip will not change anything because ZOS will f. it up anyway. (Fire dmg, spellpene)

In the end, ppl always find excuses and QQes about smth, the game is unbalanced and will always be bc ZOS is not able to fix things.

Erondil

Dragonknights don't need stam whip.

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you find that Stam DK's are at the bottom of the food chain? :S
Stam anything is in a very good position.

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

LOVE THE TURTLE

You couldnt be more wrong. Stam dk is the best specc for 1v1 as long as you know how to bash cancel. (Just take a look at the result of latest EU Arena's duel tournament) In openworld however its not as strong because less mobility than sorc or nb.

Yes, yes, yes, I've heard. But it isn't that fun being confined to sword and board for DPS, is it? It's a lot more clunky than a simple suprise attack that hits harder, can stun when paired w/ cloak and enables major fracture, which can be used on any weapon.

Well imo relying on anime cancel for dps is an interesting and fun gameplay but thats a matter of taste I guess. If you want to have same skills as nb, then play nb lol. If you give the exact same tools to each class, then just remove classes

frozywozy

Make Flame Lash a stamina based morph.

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you find that Stam DK's are at the bottom of the food chain? :S
Stam anything is in a very good position.

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

LOVE THE TURTLE

You couldnt be more wrong. Stam dk is the best specc for 1v1 as long as you know how to bash cancel. (Just take a look at the result of latest EU Arena's duel tournament) In openworld however its not as strong because less mobility than sorc or nb.

Yes, yes, yes, I've heard. But it isn't that fun being confined to sword and board for DPS, is it? It's a lot more clunky than a simple suprise attack that hits harder, can stun when paired w/ cloak and enables major fracture, which can be used on any weapon.

Well imo relying on anime cancel for dps is an interesting and fun gameplay but thats a matter of taste I guess. If you want to have same skills as nb, then play nb lol. If you give the exact same tools to each class, then just remove classes

Like I mentioned in another thread, animation cancelling is a mechanic that was not even designed by Zenimax in a first time. Players figured it out by themselves and Zenimax simply has not taken any action against it yet. I don't mind adding new aspects to a fight making it "less casual" but by all mean, if you want to make animation cancelling a legit approach, make it public and well known by everybody so you don't get an easy edge on noobs who don't even know it even exists.

On top of that, some highlevel one hand shield stam DKs also abuse reverberating bash which is very unresponsive to cc break. The day I have to relay on broken mechanics and exploits to be competitive with my class, I'm simply going to reroll another one or find a new game which bring more incremental balance fixes and give proper and clearer ways to use your class mechanics.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

Asmael wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

There's a reason why stamina Dragonknights are at the near bottom of the food chain

I read that and figured "this man is a troll".

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

we have no sustainable burst damage. We're forced to spamming WB for our main source of DPS (which is easily avoidable with LoS since there's a cast time) or spamming puncture & reverb, both being slow, weak, and boring play styles compared to those of NBs and Sorcs.

Wrong.

Ok, so, this is exactly what's wrong with you: you THINK you require WB and that SnB is weak.

Stam DK is absolutely fine, and I say this because I am running one. Yes, it requires perfect animation cancelling for maximum DPS output, but stam DKs are monsters, which is why buffing magicka DKs has to be done with caution, otherwise stam DKs will be overpowered.

Not only this, but you want Lava whip? Fire damage? Good luck with it, even if there's a stamina whip, I'll stick to Ransack to benefit from my CPs, thank you very much.

Also... WB in duel... Sorry but no.

Don't touch magicka DK's whips, they need it pretty badly.

If you play Stam DK in PVP you're either using 2H or SnB for your main source of deeps. SnB is not weak, but in comparison to what a stam NB can do with suprise atk, it is weak, but you shouldn't be forced onto 1 weapon to compete.

Even though you'd have to put points in elemental expert it's an option, though I'd strongly recommend you have some in there already to synergize w/ your dots.

And if you had stam whip, you could use 2H and not use WB.

Erondil

Dragonknights don't need stam whip.

frozywozy wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Cloak does not grant bonus damage the way that sneak attack from crouch does. The only bonus that a NB gets attacking from cloak is a 10% bonus to weapon damage passive when invis/sneak (the race-bonuses only apply to sneak, not invisibility), and if they are silly enough to choose the crit morph of cloak they will gain a 70% increased chance to crit.

I have no idea why you're debating between cloak and sneak damage. My point was that someone was trying to tell me that Alcast is a competitive stam DK and that his playstyle greatly shows how better are stam DKs againt any other stam class.

I replied to that that when I see Alcast actually engaging multiple enemies into a 1vX fight instead of simply one shotting people from stealth or fighting with the assistance of a templar healer, I will believe it.

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Check the latest arena dueling tournament video. Basiclly the top EU players from all classes and specs fighting.

Xeloki was an example I think, and he actually knows what he's doing both PvP and PvE wise.

Wait so does that mean that during the last arena 1v1 dueling tournament video, stam DKs won in most situations? If this is what you're saying, give me a link pretty pls! I gotta watch it to believe it.

1vX , in this patch? Not even nightblades can survive solo (without ganking and sneaking into the shadows) because they get marked, AoEd, detectpoted, spammed to death if they engage multiple half competent players.

You guys starting to sound like the forumblades and forumsorcs now , wanting to buff an already strong spec

Once again I'm not against a stamwhip, just you and the OP acting like stamina dk is the weakest spec in the game atm.

There is a difference between opening and one shotting an enemy from stealth who doesn't even realized what just happened to him (what Alcast shows in most of his videos) and using the shadows INTO a fight (stam nightblade). Do I really have to justify that? Pathetic.

Your posts is what's pathetic. Did I say stamina Dk is strong because they can pull off instagibs ? Learn 2 Read.
I said its funny how YOU act like stamina DK is at the "bottom of the food chain" which it clearly isnt.

NB can be pretty elusive with cloak/teleport shade but that's what the class is all about. And what I'm saying is true, unless you're facing horrible players even as a stamina nb who can vanish from time to time, you will get roflstomped. Because as a stamina build you cant cloak forever and even cloak got it's counters.

Link to the thread with the video and timestamps for each fight:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234929/arena-guild-pc-eu-glorious-pvp-duel-tournament-aftervideo-more-than-one-hour-of-epic-action#latest

Oh I see. One hand shield stam DKs with Bash/LA/Ransack animation cancelling? No thanks.

If you dont want to play the way stam dk is meant to be played, dont ask for buffs. Sure maybe you you would go 2h dd using stam whip but some others will go sb animecancel with stam whip and will be op as ***.

Weberda

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

FIX MAGICKA DK.

*COUGH* @Wrobel *COUGH*

P.S: I'm the real Vort. Hue hue hue.

Uhhhh no. You're Horus the Forum Warrior now. And I don't care about a stam whip. I want the nerf to scales and ult generation retracted on my two DK's.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Dragonknights don't need stam whip.

Stam dks are much stronger than magicka dks at the moment from my experience. So taking away a usefull skill from magicka dks shouldn't be any option at all.

Additionally it would be very hard to make a stamina whip usefull with the current cp cap without having to nerf it again when the cap gets rised. To make it better than puncture with 100 cp in mighty it would need to have at least 15-20% higher base damage than surprise attack. Which would then cause problems when the cap is around 900cp.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you find that Stam DK's are at the bottom of the food chain? :S
Stam anything is in a very good position.

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

LOVE THE TURTLE

You couldnt be more wrong. Stam dk is the best specc for 1v1 as long as you know how to bash cancel. (Just take a look at the result of latest EU Arena's duel tournament) In openworld however its not as strong because less mobility than sorc or nb.

Yes, yes, yes, I've heard. But it isn't that fun being confined to sword and board for DPS, is it? It's a lot more clunky than a simple suprise attack that hits harder, can stun when paired w/ cloak and enables major fracture, which can be used on any weapon.

Well imo relying on anime cancel for dps is an interesting and fun gameplay but thats a matter of taste I guess. If you want to have same skills as nb, then play nb lol. If you give the exact same tools to each class, then just remove classes

Maybe I've been saying this wrong, but you shouldn't have to switch classes to do what you wish to, I just wish to have more reliable damage like many other DKs without having to go to a diff weapon. All classes have their defining skills, but a simple instant attack that works for both Magicka and Stam builds shouldn't be confined to one class. Stam sorcs, DKs and Templars could then be more competitive in the aspect of 1vX and small group just as stam blades are now. I'm not too sure what could be given to sorcs, Templars do have jabs but it's not the greatest. This thread is just about changing one morph for DKs, not too much to ask. It would be beneficial in PVP and make sta DKs more desirable in PVE land.

Suru

frozywozy wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

After this the stam cavalry moves to getting sorcs a stam single target ability morph, it never stops! But yea its still interesting to read on the whip debate. Flame Lash being the one most pvp'rs would choose to be stam morph since its been the one hardcore pvpers have been using for its self healing and proc but pve wise would it really do more than a WB/flurry/bow rotation. You would nerf all pve magik dks by making Molten Whip the stamina morph with the loss of damage but would make stamina competitive. ZoS would have to be super careful with what they do to whip.

With calling stam dks the lowest DPS or bottom of the food chain is ignorant and ridiculous. There are many scary stam dks in pvp who I can name who are tanky, mobile and can hit like a truck. A long with players like @Alcast have shown what dps stam dks can do in trial. With more refinement it would be really high, especially as the CP cap rises.

Wait, you compare someone who use a "one shot" ganking build and claim that stam DKs are in a good shape. That's hilarious. The day Alcast release videos of him 1vXing I will believe it. Until that happens, he can keep heavy attacking / silver bolting / leaping people from stealth on top of rocks or playing with a templar spamming breath of life behind him.

Reread what I said. In trials. Which means PvE. Second paragraph is about PvE specifically. I don't reference his one shot comps because any stam class can do the same thing.

Turtl3Lov3

Make Molten Whip a stamina based morph.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Stam dks are much stronger than magicka dks at the moment from my experience. So taking away a usefull skill from magicka dks shouldn't be any option at all.

Additionally it would be very hard to make a stamina whip usefull with the current cp cap without having to nerf it again when the cap gets rised. To make it better than puncture with 100 cp in mighty it would need to have at least 15-20% higher base damage than surprise attack. Which would then cause problems when the cap is around 900cp.

Stam DKs are only stronger than Magicka DKs because they lack healing and damage in the current patch, though it's only true in PVP. Magicka DKs don't need one morph for PVE and one for PVP, if you gave stam DKs molten whip, it'd make them competitive in PVE and be even more competitive in PVP. Also, whip wouldn't be based off physical damage, so it wouldn't necessarily needed to be nerfed.

xylena

stam dk is great in pvp... stam flame lash would make stam dk more competitive in pve, and give more build options other than "stack mighty CP and spam wrecking blow"

Derra

L2P.

"I´m a stamdk and don´t want to use s&b and i don´t want to play xelokigankstyle."

That´s about equal to a sorc not using any heal apart from critsurge trying to go up against equally skilled players with shieldbreaker and a bow - you won´t have fun.

The game is not working the way you want it to work...

Ezareth

I remember the days of DKs that would invasion > Talons > Whip Whip Whip Whip foe after foe down.

Do we really want a return to that?

I'm fine with NBs having the only stamina class instant cast stamina ability. Not everyone needs one. The same is true of Stam Sorcs.

frozywozy

Make Flame Lash a stamina based morph.

Derra wrote: »

"I´m a stamdk and don´t want to use s&b and i don´t want to play xelokigankstyle."

That´s about equal to a sorc not using any heal apart from critsurge trying to go up against equally skilled players with shieldbreaker and a bow - you won´t have fun.

The game is not working the way you want it to work...

I didn't know that healing ward had to be animation cancelled with a bash and LA to be competitive.

Jhunn

Xvorg wrote: »

Flame lash should be stamina based for the life-stealing attack . Magicka builds already have Burning Embers for healing

HAHAHAHAHA

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

HAHAHAHAHA

Please @Wrobel don't listen to people in this thread

Takllin

Make Flame Lash a stamina based morph.

Jhunn wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Flame lash should be stamina based for the life-stealing attack . Magicka builds already have Burning Embers for healing

HAHAHAHAHA

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

HAHAHAHAHA

Please @Wrobel don't listen to people in this thread

Quite frankly it doesn't bother me one bit whether or not there is a Stamina whip, but do you mind explaining? Instead of non-constructive laughing.

I'm fairly certain I know what your getting at, but just curious.

Maulkin

Jhunn wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Flame lash should be stamina based for the life-stealing attack . Magicka builds already have Burning Embers for healing

HAHAHAHAHA

Turtl3Lov3 wrote: »

Compared to other classes 1v1, I.E Stamplars, Magicka Sorcs, Stamina & Magicka NBs, we're below them.

HAHAHAHAHA

Please @Wrobel don't listen to people in this thread

It's pretty funny, I agree. I'm waiting for them to say "It's alright guys, we're just trolling you!" and then we'll all have a good laugh about it.