Vampire and werewolf "bites" in the crown store

NightSky

Let's all become Vampire, we can all "Sparkle" together.

AzraelKrieg

NightSky wrote: »

Let's all become Vampire, we can all "Sparkle" together.

If there were a lol button still, I'd give it to you for that.

tinythinker

NightSky wrote: »

Let's all become Vampire, we can all "Sparkle" together.

Sparkling is an extra 500 crowns.

Preyfar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

I think there's a logic in this that can lead to "pay to win" that bothers me. I was fine when it was cosmetic, but ZOS could easily argue a "pay 5,000 crowns to instantly level to 50" and argue it's just for convenience. At what point are we going to draw the line now? I was totally for cosmetic and convenience, but people paying money to get power and skill lines, skip quests... that seems a bit "off" to me.

Hiero_Glyph

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

Skipping the quest is a little more than just a convenience item though as it prevents players from becoming a werewolf or vampire at low levels, unless they are skilled enough to do so. Do you really want level 3 werewolves and vampires running around Tamriel? I'm fine with the bite being permanent and allowing players to retry the quest as often as they want but completing the quest is part of the process of becoming a werewolf or vampire.

tinythinker

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

I think there's a logic in this that can lead to "pay to win" that bothers me. I was fine when it was cosmetic, but ZOS could easily argue a "pay 5,000 crowns to instantly level to 50" and argue it's just for convenience. At what point are we going to draw the line now? I was totally for cosmetic and convenience, but people paying money to get power and skill lines, skip quests... that seems a bit "off" to me.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Skipping the quest is a little more than just a convenience item though as it prevents players from becoming a werewolf or vampire at low levels, unless they are skilled enough to do so. Do you really want level 3 werewolves and vampires running around Tamriel? I'm fine with the bite being permanent and allowing players to retry the quest as often as they want but completing the quest is part of the process of becoming a werewolf or vampire.

Just greasing up that slippery slope...

NightSky

tinythinker wrote: »

NightSky wrote: »

Let's all become Vampire, we can all "Sparkle" together.

Sparkling is an extra 500 crowns.

Good idea!

Slurg

Minimum level of the mobs on the conversion quest is still 38 and won't scale lower right? (They used to scale lower at one point - I remember doing ww quest at level 19 against level 19 mobs .) This makes crown store option much more attractive to low levels who can't beat the quest mobs.

Give it some time and see how it goes in BWB in the level 40s for the people buying and starting leveling vamp and ww at level 3 vs. others waiting to level 30+ to start doing the quests. Then come back and decide if this is p2w or not.

Shadesofkin

I'm wary of an instant mechanical change like this.

I get that it's convenient, but it still bugs me. C'est la vie I suppose.

SemiD4rkness

When can we buy alliance points so we can be emperors?

NightSky

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

When can we buy alliance points so we can be emperors?

Soon.

tinythinker

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

When can we buy alliance points so we can be emperors?

No, no, no, the Sceptre of Instant Enthronement makes you an Emperor the moment you consume it.

MissBizz

Preyfar wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

I think there's a logic in this that can lead to "pay to win" that bothers me. I was fine when it was cosmetic, but ZOS could easily argue a "pay 5,000 crowns to instantly level to 50" and argue it's just for convenience. At what point are we going to draw the line now? I was totally for cosmetic and convenience, but people paying money to get power and skill lines, skip quests... that seems a bit "off" to me.

I whole heartedly agree.

tinythinker

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm wary of an instant mechanical change like this.

I get that it's convenient, but it still bugs me. C'est la vie I suppose.

Personally, don't care if people want to pay real world money to get the disease. It's the "skip the quest/instant skill line" that bums me out and slips the camel's nose under the tent flap.

TequilaFire

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

This does cross the pay to win line, getting a skill that improves player power without even having to even earn it by doing the quest. How can you say this with a straight face.

BullNetch

It's pay to win because it's a gameplay boost to a lower level character. They don't have to run off to Reaper's March, Bangkorai, or the Rift to get a bite.

What's next? Unlocks for the Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Assault, Support, and Undaunted skill lines?


It's only a convenience for a Vet 16 character with Vampire and WW all maxed out that wants to change between WW and Vampire every other day.

tinythinker

TequilaFire wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm, you do not need to do the quest. Once you purchase either bite, you automatically are infected with either Lycanthropy or Vampirism. To reiterate what we've always said, Crown Store items are merely for convenience.

This does cross the pay to win line, getting a skill that improves player power without even having to even earn it by doing the quest. How can you say this with a straight face.

She doesn't make these decisions. But she can relay displeasure on the part of the players to those who do.

AzraelKrieg

tinythinker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm wary of an instant mechanical change like this.

I get that it's convenient, but it still bugs me. C'est la vie I suppose.

Personally, don't care if people want to pay real world money to get the disease. It's the "skip the quest/instant skill line" that bums me out and slips the camel's nose under the tent flap.

If it was just the bite and the quest was still needed I don't think I would have as big of an issue with it. But since Gina confirmed it's instant, there is the issue

tinythinker

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm wary of an instant mechanical change like this.

I get that it's convenient, but it still bugs me. C'est la vie I suppose.

Personally, don't care if people want to pay real world money to get the disease. It's the "skip the quest/instant skill line" that bums me out and slips the camel's nose under the tent flap.

If it was just the bite and the quest was still needed I don't think I would have as big of an issue with it. But since Gina confirmed it's instant, there is the issue

Hence my comments in this thead

Merlin13KAGL

1500 crowns, huh?

That's amusing, considering the last character to obtain it carried it around for almost a week before even realizing it was there.

Wasn't until I just happened to Bankorai's wayshrine and had a quest marker 2 feet in front of me that I knew I couldn't have possibly missed.

Wasn't even trying - didn't even know I had gotten bit.

The rest were earned accordingly.

I really dislike that they've changed the advancement of the skill line to any XP's - you don't even have to use a single skill to max it out. I'm sure that will be next on the crown store agenda.

Hiero_Glyph

Yeah, once veteran ranks are removed I can easily see level 50 templates being added as well. We know they plan to add more character slots to the crown store as well. I'd say we are 6-12 months away from a F2P change where free accounts are limited to 2 character slots and do not have access to Cadwell's Silver/Gold, and Craglorn. I really hope I'm wrong but the fact that this simply isn't a convenience bite and instead grants the full skill line is very disheartening (and I was a major defender of the bite being added to the crown store for the sake of convenience).

sekhem

tinythinker wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Who's going to buy these?

Who doesn't know someone who can bite them?

I understand why some folks don't know about/can't find free bites. Don't know why ZOS couldn't just increase the number or frequency of spawn if there was an issue with people not being able to get bites (other than to pursue monetization). Or, why the quests are skipped even if bites are sold for convenience and profit. The vamp and werewolf quests are very short and have lore.

I also dont understand why the blood fiend spawns have to be so rare. Being a vampire isnt easy, it has draw backs that make alot of people give up and cure it. People complain if it was easier to become a vampire then there would be too many in game but I dont think that would happen. I havent given up yet but I could see myself doing so later. The fire vulnerability is a pain and the having to feed so often is a pain. I also havent come to appreciate the bonuses yet so except for role players and those who really know how to play as a vamp I think alot of people who want to try will probably cure it later.

caperon

[snip] are you talking about. The werewolf and vampire quests are a joke, the hard part used to be getting bitted, and not anymore since in worst case you can buy it for like 5k gold, even most of the guilds give it for free. Would be interesting to know if the skill lines are leveled or you need to grind it (i guess not leveled).

[edited for profanity bypass]

tinythinker

sekhem wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Who's going to buy these?

Who doesn't know someone who can bite them?

I understand why some folks don't know about/can't find free bites. Don't know why ZOS couldn't just increase the number or frequency of spawn if there was an issue with people not being able to get bites (other than to pursue monetization). Or, why the quests are skipped even if bites are sold for convenience and profit. The vamp and werewolf quests are very short and have lore.

I also dont understand why the blood fiend spawns have to be so rare. Being a vampire isnt easy, it has draw backs that make alot of people give up and cure it. People complain if it was easier to become a vampire then there would be too many in game but I dont think that would happen. I havent given up yet but I could see myself doing so later. The fire vulnerability is a pain and the having to feed so often is a pain. I also havent come to appreciate the bonuses yet so except for role players and those who really know how to play as a vamp I think alot of people who want to try will probably cure it later.

They were rare so that it would be an actual achievement, something not so easy to obtain. That has now been monetized. And not just the bite, but the process of proving the character worthy to obtain the associated skill line.

Booooooo!

(No, I'm not saying Booo-urrrns ).

svartorn

Holy crap people. So much complaining.

People that buy this crap are paying the paychecks of the devs. This is the price to pay for a subscription free model.

BullNetch

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm wary of an instant mechanical change like this.

I get that it's convenient, but it still bugs me. C'est la vie I suppose.

Personally, don't care if people want to pay real world money to get the disease. It's the "skip the quest/instant skill line" that bums me out and slips the camel's nose under the tent flap.

If it was just the bite and the quest was still needed I don't think I would have as big of an issue with it. But since Gina confirmed it's instant, there is the issue

Should just be the infection.

MissBizz

caperon wrote: »

[snip] are you talking about. The werewolf and vampire quests are a joke, the hard part used to be getting bitted, and not anymore since in worst case you can buy it for like 5k gold, even most of the guilds give it for free. Would be interesting to know if the skill lines are leveled or you need to grind it (i guess not leveled).

I'm also assuming it's not levelled. I also think that's a safe assumption.

[edited to remove quote]

TequilaFire

Re-slots camo and poison injection.
Hmm, haven't seen silver bolts in a while.

Stikato

This is nothing.

We were basically able to Pay-For-More-Stats for a year with cash through XP scrolls and CPs. Still can, but at least its capped.

I hate B2P / F2P / P2W as much as anyone, but to complain about this is silly.

tinythinker

caperon wrote: »

[snip] are you talking about. The werewolf and vampire quests are a joke, the hard part used to be getting bitted, and not anymore since in worst case you can buy it for like 5k gold, even most of the guilds give it for free. Would be interesting to know if the skill lines are leveled or you need to grind it (i guess not leveled).

To whom are you responding?

The issues I've seen expressed here are:

1. Setting a precedent for skipping quests and instantly gaining skill lines for cash
2. Players without the requisite character level, gear, skill, etc, with an option to obtain something that otherwise requires those thing getting it anyway for cash

And yes, there are people who will be getting ww or vamp at a character level/player skill level who wouldn't have been able to get it yet without more practice/time spent playing. I don't care so much about that, but the first one (selling quest completions/skill lines) bothers me.

[edited to remove quote]