Heavy armor needs buffed already.

Dubhliam

PvE wise, there can be improvements, but people can deal with HA as it is.

laced wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.

You CAN dps in HA.
You just won't be as effective, nor should you be. You sacrifice damage for survivability.

I have spent some time in Cyrodill these past few days, and let me tell you: people that know how to optimize their builds ABSOLUTELY WRECK everyone while wearing 5 Heavy Armor.

I was of the opinion that HA needed top be buffed in that aspect of the game, but it seems I was wrong.

I was also wearing 5 HA for the whole duration of my time in Cyrodill. Might not have been fully optimised, or good in DPS, but I was doing just great 1v1 or XvX.

STEVIL

laced wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.

Lets look at light vs heavy skills, shall we from the perspective of offense(dps), sustain, defence(tank)

Light ARMOR RATING is very low
Annul is defence
evoc is sustain
rec is sustain
ward is defence
prodigy is offense
conc is offense

MEDIUM armor bonus is middle ground
Evasion is defense
Dexterity is offense
wind is sustain
sneak is weird but lets say sustain
agility is offense
athletics is sustain

Heavy ARMOR RATING IS VERY HIGH
Immov is defend
resolve is defend
constitution is sustain
juggernaut is sustain
bracing is sustain
mending is sustain

Now OBVIOUSLY since the base armor bonuses of wearing heavy are multiple times better than light, to keep these two skill sets balanced the skills themselves for HEAVY should be weaker than the corresponding lights. (remember they can be picked by any class so this component of armor skills has to balance between each other.)

HOWEVER, an argument can be made that it is rational for trying to support the goals of making role specific not as strong we make sure each armor set has at least one skill that helps with each of the primary aspects.

looking at the list we can see that HA is VERY VERY focused on sustain and has no direct offensive gains.

IF we follow this logic we could look at replacing Juggernaut (a per piece skill) and mending (a 5 pc skill) with OFFENSE based skills putting HA evenly divided.

i would replace juggernaut with maybe UNBREAKABLE (x% change of melee attackers getting a DOT) and Mending with ONSLAUGHT which boosts weapon damage by 3%/ 6% (half the bonus med armor thing gives.)

Now, yeah, both of these cut back on the HA wearers ability to last against lotsa incoming damage but they raise its dps profile and move the general structure of the skills more into sync with the others.

Just a thought but yeah, if the DPS capability of HA was improved that might raise its popularity since DPS seems to be the most popular focus.

Jade1986

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.

Lets look at light vs heavy skills, shall we from the perspective of offense(dps), sustain, defence(tank)

Light ARMOR RATING is very low
Annul is defence
evoc is sustain
rec is sustain
ward is defence
prodigy is offense
conc is offense

MEDIUM armor bonus is middle ground
Evasion is defense
Dexterity is offense
wind is sustain
sneak is weird but lets say sustain
agility is offense
athletics is sustain

Heavy ARMOR RATING IS VERY HIGH
Immov is defend
resolve is defend
constitution is sustain
juggernaut is sustain
bracing is sustain
mending is sustain

Now OBVIOUSLY since the base armor bonuses of wearing heavy are multiple times better than light, to keep these two skill sets balanced the skills themselves for HEAVY should be weaker than the corresponding lights. (remember they can be picked by any class so this component of armor skills has to balance between each other.)

HOWEVER, an argument can be made that it is rational for trying to support the goals of making role specific not as strong we make sure each armor set has at least one skill that helps with each of the primary aspects.

looking at the list we can see that HA is VERY VERY focused on sustain and has no direct offensive gains.

IF we follow this logic we could look at replacing Juggernaut (a per piece skill) and mending (a 5 pc skill) with OFFENSE based skills putting HA evenly divided.

i would replace juggernaut with maybe UNBREAKABLE (x% change of melee attackers getting a DOT) and Mending with ONSLAUGHT which boosts weapon damage by 3%/ 6% (half the bonus med armor thing gives.)

Now, yeah, both of these cut back on the HA wearers ability to last against lotsa incoming damage but they raise its dps profile and move the general structure of the skills more into sync with the others.

Just a thought but yeah, if the DPS capability of HA was improved that might raise its popularity since DPS seems to be the most popular focus.

Oh please, the survivability of HA is just downright awful, for your argument to work at all the values of the resistances would need to be exponentially higher, there would need to be built in crit resistance and the health bonus would need to be considerably higher. As is right now HA passives are pretty awful in comparison to the other armors, even the devs admitted HA is in an awful place. And no, I wont find a quote.

Forestd16b14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.

Lets look at light vs heavy skills, shall we from the perspective of offense(dps), sustain, defence(tank)

Light ARMOR RATING is very low
Annul is defence
evoc is sustain
rec is sustain
ward is defence
prodigy is offense
conc is offense

MEDIUM armor bonus is middle ground
Evasion is defense
Dexterity is offense
wind is sustain
sneak is weird but lets say sustain
agility is offense
athletics is sustain

Heavy ARMOR RATING IS VERY HIGH
Immov is defend
resolve is defend
constitution is sustain
juggernaut is sustain
bracing is sustain
mending is sustain

Now OBVIOUSLY since the base armor bonuses of wearing heavy are multiple times better than light, to keep these two skill sets balanced the skills themselves for HEAVY should be weaker than the corresponding lights. (remember they can be picked by any class so this component of armor skills has to balance between each other.)

HOWEVER, an argument can be made that it is rational for trying to support the goals of making role specific not as strong we make sure each armor set has at least one skill that helps with each of the primary aspects.

looking at the list we can see that HA is VERY VERY focused on sustain and has no direct offensive gains.

IF we follow this logic we could look at replacing Juggernaut (a per piece skill) and mending (a 5 pc skill) with OFFENSE based skills putting HA evenly divided.

i would replace juggernaut with maybe UNBREAKABLE (x% change of melee attackers getting a DOT) and Mending with ONSLAUGHT which boosts weapon damage by 3%/ 6% (half the bonus med armor thing gives.)

Now, yeah, both of these cut back on the HA wearers ability to last against lotsa incoming damage but they raise its dps profile and move the general structure of the skills more into sync with the others.

Just a thought but yeah, if the DPS capability of HA was improved that might raise its popularity since DPS seems to be the most popular focus.

Uh are you really comparing the armor passives to one another ???

Here is the short version HA passive suck and need either to be buff dramatically or a complete over-haul to compete against MA and LA passives. LA now is more tanky than HA cause of OP damage shields because damage shields scale off magicka which is what LA provides.

Literally that is how this game is now the higher your max magicka is the not only the higher your DPS is but also your tankiness and it needs to change starting wit HA buffs than a nerf to damage shields (yes nerf no more sugar coating it) and maybe get rid of damage scaling resources if not make max health boost resistance and damage absorption same as max stamina/magicka boost damage.

Jade1986

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.

Lets look at light vs heavy skills, shall we from the perspective of offense(dps), sustain, defence(tank)

Light ARMOR RATING is very low
Annul is defence
evoc is sustain
rec is sustain
ward is defence
prodigy is offense
conc is offense

MEDIUM armor bonus is middle ground
Evasion is defense
Dexterity is offense
wind is sustain
sneak is weird but lets say sustain
agility is offense
athletics is sustain

Heavy ARMOR RATING IS VERY HIGH
Immov is defend
resolve is defend
constitution is sustain
juggernaut is sustain
bracing is sustain
mending is sustain

Now OBVIOUSLY since the base armor bonuses of wearing heavy are multiple times better than light, to keep these two skill sets balanced the skills themselves for HEAVY should be weaker than the corresponding lights. (remember they can be picked by any class so this component of armor skills has to balance between each other.)

HOWEVER, an argument can be made that it is rational for trying to support the goals of making role specific not as strong we make sure each armor set has at least one skill that helps with each of the primary aspects.

looking at the list we can see that HA is VERY VERY focused on sustain and has no direct offensive gains.

IF we follow this logic we could look at replacing Juggernaut (a per piece skill) and mending (a 5 pc skill) with OFFENSE based skills putting HA evenly divided.

i would replace juggernaut with maybe UNBREAKABLE (x% change of melee attackers getting a DOT) and Mending with ONSLAUGHT which boosts weapon damage by 3%/ 6% (half the bonus med armor thing gives.)

Now, yeah, both of these cut back on the HA wearers ability to last against lotsa incoming damage but they raise its dps profile and move the general structure of the skills more into sync with the others.

Just a thought but yeah, if the DPS capability of HA was improved that might raise its popularity since DPS seems to be the most popular focus.

Uh are you really comparing the armor passives to one another ???

Here is the short version HA passive suck and need either to be buff dramatically or a complete over-haul to compete against MA and LA passives. LA now is more tanky than HA cause of OP damage shields because damage shields scale off magicka which is what LA provides.

Literally that is how this game is now the higher your max magicka is the not only the higher your DPS is but also your tankiness and it needs to change starting wit HA buffs than a nerf to damage shields (yes nerf no more sugar coating it) and maybe get rid of damage scaling resources if not make max health boost resistance and damage absorption same as max stamina/magicka boost damage.

Exactly. There is no reason shields should scale off of magicka at -all-

hrothbern

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

Jade1986

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

Oh for gods sake, the one passive that was GOOD on HA got removed completely.

Brilliant job ZoS.....brilliant job indeed......

Its good to see they are consistant with nerfing blocking into the ground every other update though.

hrothbern

also from the patch notes re HA-Blocking:

Core mechanics (sprint, dodge, block, CC break) will now be slightly more expensive

First thing to test will be what the new Costs are.

Forestd16b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

Jade1986

hrothbern wrote: »

also from the patch notes re HA-Blocking:

Core mechanics (sprint, dodge, block, CC break) will now be slightly more expensive

First thing to test will be what the new Costs are.

Seriously....blocking is going to get MORE expensive? Why not just remove shields from the game at this point?

Jade1986

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Forestd16b14_ESO

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Right there. That normally means the changed it.

hrothbern

I think that the direction of ZOS is consistent

The "easy" ways to mitigate damage, almost as from armchair, are increased in costs.

The other thing, and I consider that almost elegant (!), is that the stagnation of HA balancing, in making HA a "normal" Armor choice, is that the "hot potatoe" property of HA, the reduced Blocking costs, is simply removed.
This frees up HA to be balanced towards LA & MA in a normal way.

Whether the HA buff package is enough is what we have to find out together.
But IF the buff is not good enough, I would expect that a further buffing would not stagnate again.

I tried ofc to do some quick and dirty Math on the other changed passives of HA, to estimate the overall change "like for like" with the old HA and the current LA and MA.
But that is too complicated to shoot from the hip.
So I have to experience it first in PTS.

Forestd16b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

I think that the direction of ZOS is consistent

The "easy" ways to mitigate damage, almost as from armchair, are increased in costs.

The other thing, and I consider that almost elegant (!), is that the stagnation of HA balancing, in making HA a "normal" Armor choice, is that the "hot potatoe" property of HA, the reduced Blocking costs, is simply removed.
This frees up HA to be balanced towards LA & MA in a normal way.

Whether the HA buff package is enough is what we have to find out together.
But IF the buff is not good enough, I would expect that a further buffing would not stagnate again.

I tried ofc to do some quick and dirty Math on rhe other changed passives of HA.
But that is too complicated to shoot from the hip.
So I have to experience it first in PTS.

Yea same here but their is no mention of changing mitigation cap or removing it all together so as far as I know mitigation is still caped at 50%.

Jade1986

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Right there. That normally means the changed it.

Yes, they changed it, but removing the cost reduction completely would be mentioned if it were part of the change. At least one would assume so. I will just cross my fingers that they didnt get rid of it.

Forestd16b14_ESO

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Right there. That normally means the changed it.

Yes, they changed it, but removing the cost reduction completely would be mentioned if it were part of the change. At least one would assume so. I will just cross my fingers that they didnt get rid of it.

Better not cause blocking now cost EVEN MORE.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Also something I failed to notice was any changes to immovable or any of it's morphs were is that ?

hrothbern

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

I think that the direction of ZOS is consistent

The "easy" ways to mitigate damage, almost as from armchair, are increased in costs.

The other thing, and I consider that almost elegant (!), is that the stagnation of HA balancing, in making HA a "normal" Armor choice, is that the "hot potatoe" property of HA, the reduced Blocking costs, is simply removed.
This frees up HA to be balanced towards LA & MA in a normal way.

Whether the HA buff package is enough is what we have to find out together.
But IF the buff is not good enough, I would expect that a further buffing would not stagnate again.

I tried ofc to do some quick and dirty Math on rhe other changed passives of HA.
But that is too complicated to shoot from the hip.
So I have to experience it first in PTS.

Yea same here but their is no mention of changing mitigation cap or removing it all together so as far as I know mitigation is still caped at 50%.

I saw nothing related to the 50% Armor damage mitigating cap. So I guess it has stayed the same.

But a little bit related to that 50% cap is that there are two traits changed relevant for achieving a high armor mitigation %.
The Weapon trait Defensive will in future give a fixed value. No PTS yet. So unknown how much, but it will diminish the difference between LA, MA and HA.
The Armor trait Sturdy will in future reduce Block costs. Again no PTS yet and no values known, but this does put the HA build for the choice to invest the trait in more Blocking uptime or better Armor mitigation when not Blocking.

So if the new Weapon trait lowers the Armor gained for HA and you feel to choose Sturdy as Armor trait, I think it will be unlikely that coming close to the 50% cap will still deliver a good Tank build.

Forestd16b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

I think that the direction of ZOS is consistent

The "easy" ways to mitigate damage, almost as from armchair, are increased in costs.

The other thing, and I consider that almost elegant (!), is that the stagnation of HA balancing, in making HA a "normal" Armor choice, is that the "hot potatoe" property of HA, the reduced Blocking costs, is simply removed.
This frees up HA to be balanced towards LA & MA in a normal way.

Whether the HA buff package is enough is what we have to find out together.
But IF the buff is not good enough, I would expect that a further buffing would not stagnate again.

I tried ofc to do some quick and dirty Math on rhe other changed passives of HA.
But that is too complicated to shoot from the hip.
So I have to experience it first in PTS.

Yea same here but their is no mention of changing mitigation cap or removing it all together so as far as I know mitigation is still caped at 50%.

I saw nothing related to the 50% Armor damage mitigating cap. So I guess it has stayed the same.

But a little bit related to that 50% cap is that there are two traits changed relevant for achieving a high armor mitigation %.
The Weapon trait Defensive will in future give a fixed value. No PTS yet. So unknown how much, but it will dimish the difference between LA, MA and HA.
The Armor trait Sturdy will in future reduce Block costs. Again no PTS yet and no values known, but this does put the HA build for the choice to invest the trait in more Blocking uptime or better Armor mitigation when not Blocking.

So if the new Weapon trait lowers the Armor gained for HA and you feel to choose Sturdy as Armor trait, I think it will be unlikely that coming close to the 50% cap will still deliver a good Tank build.

Well part of my 2H tanking build I use a greatsword with the defending trait and at gold the trait offers a 12% physical and spell resistance boost so when ever PTS gets up i'll post how much gold defending is on a 2H atleast cause I'm sure it all be different values on the weapons.

Jade1986

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Right there. That normally means the changed it.

Yes, they changed it, but removing the cost reduction completely would be mentioned if it were part of the change. At least one would assume so. I will just cross my fingers that they didnt get rid of it.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Fresh from the first PTS DB Patch Notes:

Bracing will no longer exist... no longer will HA give 20% reduction of Blocking Costs !!!!

In exchange we get:

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.
Constitution: Increased the amount of Magicka and Stamina restored from this passive ability whenever you are hit by approximately 275%.
Juggernaut: Increased the amount of maximum health this passive grants per piece of Heavy Armor to 1/2% at Ranks I/II from 0.5/1%.
Rapid Mending:
This passive ability no longer increments its bonuses with each piece of Heavy Armor, and now requires 5 pieces or more of Heavy Armor to be worn.
Increased the healing taken bonus to 4/8%
This ability now increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 25/50% at Ranks I/II.

EDIT
All in all this change means there is no special benefit anymore for a build that does a lot of Blocking to use HA.
With that Block Cost factor removed from the Armor choice, it will be interesting to experience whether the other HA buffs will make up for that loss of tankiness !

............ OK REALLY WHAT THE **** ZOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like really you remove reduce blocking cost and replaced it with... THIS !>!>!>!?!?!?! WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

HA users want to be tanky not a repeat of HA at PC launch.

I am looking at the patch notes right now, there is NO mention of them removing the cost reduction of blocking. I do not know where he got that from, but it is not there.

Heavy Armor
Bracing:
Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

No mention of removing the cost reduction.

Right there. That normally means the changed it.

Yes, they changed it, but removing the cost reduction completely would be mentioned if it were part of the change. At least one would assume so. I will just cross my fingers that they didnt get rid of it.

Better not cause blocking now cost EVEN MORE.

Yeah, if they remove the cost reduction AND increase cost of it, they might as well just removeblocking all together to be honest

hrothbern

Well... PTS has to tell us more

My download has started: 8% done.

Forestd16b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

Well... PTS has to tell us more

My download has started: 8% done.

38%+

hrothbern

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Well... PTS has to tell us more

My download has started: 8% done.

38%+

haha

STEVIL

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Forestd16b14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Yes not a bad start but tanks are meant to tank not deal damage as the new "wraith" skill is doing.

hrothbern

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Yes not a bad start but tanks are meant to tank not deal damage as the new "wraith" skill is doing.

Perhaps a S&B LA build with Sturdy traits and a Defensive Weapon is worth investigating for a Magicka Tank
and likewise for MA

Jade1986

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

There was no mention of any balance to shields specifically in the SnB skill tree at all. Only damage buffs to the bash ability.

STEVIL

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Yes not a bad start but tanks are meant to tank not deal damage as the new "wraith" skill is doing.

Yes so feel free to build a tsnk, but ARMOR DOES NOT EQUAL ROLE. This chsnge reinforces that. Someone above argued its not fair to be able to tank in la but not dps in ha. Ha had no offense but med and la had def and sustain.

Imo this is a good move to kerping ROLE a combination of decisions not with only one option.

Rylana

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Yes not a bad start but tanks are meant to tank not deal damage as the new "wraith" skill is doing.

Heavy Armor does not mean Tank by default. Ive been running a HA based AoE DPS PvP spec, and an HA based unkillable healer for months. Both do their respective roles (damage and healing) quite well actually, the mitigation is just there for its intended purpose.

Too many minmaxers discard niche builds and must use cookie cutter cause someone told them to. And ye, my stuff works in Trials, too. Deal with it.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So shields balance was addressed in the shields not in HA
Nirnh9ne pens bslance addressed in nirnhoned not ha.
HA got a damage component psssive likely replacing a sustain ehich helps it support more roles, not just tanking.

Overall not bad. HA more versatile for a multitude of builds and more like the other armor types it must balance against.

Not a bad start, imo.

Yes not a bad start but tanks are meant to tank not deal damage as the new "wraith" skill is doing.

Heavy Armor does not mean Tank by default. Ive been running a HA based AoE DPS PvP spec, and an HA based unkillable healer for months. Both do their respective roles (damage and healing) quite well actually, the mitigation is just there for its intended purpose.

Too many minmaxers discard niche builds and must use cookie cutter cause someone told them to. And ye, my stuff works in Trials, too. Deal with it.

Yes yes yes hybrids and all but if some one is wearing full 7 pieces of HA you would assume they wanna take all the damage when they know they would most likely have to give up alot of their DPS. Not all of it but most of it. Yes this change is nice and over do but full metal plate armor should have the best defense and best mitigation.