Heavy armor needs buffed already.

idk

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

Dubhliam

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Yeah, I agree, currently anyone can use any armor skill which is not good.

I guess having armor skills require 5 pieces to activate might be a good idea, like OP suggested.
In which case the Break Free part from Immovable Brute should be reworked so that it's not a "while slotted" effect.

Although I highly doubt devs willake that change because that would directly gimp Armor Master set.
And we all know how much they love their DLC$.

Why?
While slotting an armor skill you get 5% max health.
While activating it you get extra defense. Activating the toggle would give you extra defense.
Regardless if its a toggle or an active skill, i doubt it would heavely effect the Armor master set.

Besides that, a set focused on tanking won't really be broken by 5K extra armor.

Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Reevster wrote: »

Ok so there seems to be mostly "Tanks" in this thread.

So I ask how you hold agro when other players are out DPSing you since your wearing HA with much less Damage output?

I mean i was a Warrior/tank in EQ1 and my job was to hold and keep agro off of the clerics/ chanters "Rangers" rogues etc. Warriors did have "taunt" skills but rangers/ rouge for example did so much damage even those skills couldn't pull the mob off of them many many times.

Reason i am asking is I was going to build a "tank" and have all 4 classes at VR 16 almost.

What is the best class for a tank that can get agrro and hold it so the mob doesnt jump around to the DPS / healers classes? or is that just not possible since Heavy Armor wears cant out DPS the other damage dealers.

The best tank class for holding aggro IMO is DK. I play a mag DK tank.

You don't need to taunt every single mob. Instead, cast Cinder storm for the initial AoE aggro (and snare), taunt the most dangerous (or CC immune) mob, then cast Choking Talons. From that point, cast Deep Breath to interrupt any enemies that are channeling and reapply taunts and Choking Talons when needed.
Igneous Shield is your go-to skill for stamina management.

CC and proximity to a mob generate strong aggro.

Fizzlewizzle

Leave the OP be.
Someone kicks in a (stupid) idea, and the communitie will rip it apart and create a decent situation which could acctually be worth considering.

The start might be messy, but the endresult is what counts.

Fizzlewizzle

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Bashev

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

2 from the 3 armor skills are useful in any build while the light armor skill is useful only for magicka builds because it scales of the resource pool. Then light armor skill should be changed or medium armor skill should scales with stamina and heavy armor skill scales with health.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Sorry @Fizzlewizzle but I have to disagree about needing 5+ piece of armor for armor skills cause it was that you didn't need even armor let alone heavy armor is why immovable got nerfed in the first place cause every one ran it for the CC immunity and that of course caused players to rage in PvP which as we all know made them cry to ZOS to nerf it to now cost way to much for very little benefits cause most class armor gives the same amount of resistance with more benefits that last way longer than 5 seconds and cost much less.

Plus you need a bow to use snipe, duel wield to steel tornado, and a 2H weapon to wrecking blow spam so it would only make sense that you need correct armor to use a armor skill.

Dubhliam

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

This would be discriminating.
I think that if there were some drastic changes (as 5 piece requirement) then all Armor skills should be affected and reworked accordingly.
On the other hand, things could stay as they are, but then the Major Protection from the suggestion I made could be abused by using Immovable Brute on 5 MA or LA. Although I doubt people would want to gimp their damage output (20% spell and weapon dmg debuff).

Forestd16b14_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Suggestions for the Armor active skills(s):

Immovable:
- Toggle
When toggled on:
- Increase damage resistance by 1% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Increase max health by 2% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Immovable Brute:
- Toggle
When Toggled on:
- Increase max health by 4/6/8/10% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Increase Health, Magicka and Stamina regen by 2/4/6/8% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Become Immune to all CC effects.
- Rooted (0% movement speed)

Unstoppable:
- Toggle
When toggled on:
- Increase damage resistance by 2/4/6/8% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Decrease cost of blocking by 1/2/3/4% for each piece of heavy armor equiped.
- Decrease weapon and spell damage by 1/3/5/7% for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Interesting idea but if I may why only have one skill have CC immunity ? That was kinda the biggest benefit of immovable was the CC immunity.

Its all about trade-offs.
You can't move, can't be taken down but can fight at full power.
Or you can move, can be taken down, but are extremely hard to kill.

@Dubhliam
Minor and Major buffs would be a problem for this skill/ this idea.
Its to improve heay armor, not give other armor options a strong buff to use.

If you can get both a 30% incomming damage reduction buff and a 20% attack debuff it can be counterd for most parts by medium armor. Wear 5 pieces medium and you get a 12%(?) attack bonus, lowering your innitial debuff to 8%.
An 8% damage debuff with a 30% damage reduction would be a bit OP.

Also, stacking buffs isn't really a problem, you might be tough, but hit like a wet noodle.
All extra bits will be the same as they are now (on which we all agree they are useless).

Well that could work but then DPS players would need trade offs too then to make things balanced.

Like stamina users for stamina and damage their trade off is no regen while sprinting, sneaking, or blocking and dodge rolling has increases cost with repeated use. That's pretty balanced trade off while magicka users on the other hand have no trade offs which needs to change and best thing I personally can think of is only 1 damage shield active at once and no magicka regen while the player has a damage shield active that they casted on them selves. So essentially want a damage shield it will cost your regeneration.

Fizzlewizzle

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Sorry @Fizzlewizzle but I have to disagree about needing 5+ piece of armor for armor skills cause it was that you didn't need even armor let alone heavy armor is why immovable got nerfed in the first place cause every one ran it for the CC immunity and that of course caused players to rage in PvP which as we all know made them cry to ZOS to nerf it to now cost way to much for very little benefits cause most class armor gives the same amount of resistance with more benefits that last way longer than 5 seconds and cost much less.

Plus you need a bow to use snipe, duel wield to steel tornado, and a 2H weapon to wrecking blow spam so it would only make sense that you need correct armor to use a armor skill.

Might be a misunderstanding...

I do not think you need 5/5 of any armor type to be allowed to use a certain skill.
Having skills potential/ power be based on how many of the corresponding armor you use would be a very valid option though.

Dubhliam

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Sorry @Fizzlewizzle but I have to disagree about needing 5+ piece of armor for armor skills cause it was that you didn't need even armor let alone heavy armor is why immovable got nerfed in the first place cause every one ran it for the CC immunity and that of course caused players to rage in PvP which as we all know made them cry to ZOS to nerf it to now cost way to much for very little benefits cause most class armor gives the same amount of resistance with more benefits that last way longer than 5 seconds and cost much less.

Plus you need a bow to use snipe, duel wield to steel tornado, and a 2H weapon to wrecking blow spam so it would only make sense that you need correct armor to use a armor skill.

Might be a misunderstanding...

I do not think you need 5/5 of any armor type to be allowed to use a certain skill.
Having skills potential/ power be based on how many of the corresponding armor you use would be a very valid option though.

I agree, but the game currently revolves around Minor and Major buffs. If you don't add some bonus in the form of a Major or Minor buff, you risk making that bonus stackable (the reason they reworked Hist Bark to give Major Evasion instead of flat 18% dodge chance) thus making it exploitable.
And buffs cannot be modified by pieces.
That is the reason I suggested the Major Protection buff, accompanied by damage reduction debuff.

Reevster

Dubhliam wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Yeah, I agree, currently anyone can use any armor skill which is not good.

I guess having armor skills require 5 pieces to activate might be a good idea, like OP suggested.
In which case the Break Free part from Immovable Brute should be reworked so that it's not a "while slotted" effect.

Although I highly doubt devs willake that change because that would directly gimp Armor Master set.
And we all know how much they love their DLC$.

Why?
While slotting an armor skill you get 5% max health.
While activating it you get extra defense. Activating the toggle would give you extra defense.
Regardless if its a toggle or an active skill, i doubt it would heavely effect the Armor master set.

Besides that, a set focused on tanking won't really be broken by 5K extra armor.

Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Reevster wrote: »

Ok so there seems to be mostly "Tanks" in this thread.

So I ask how you hold agro when other players are out DPSing you since your wearing HA with much less Damage output?

I mean i was a Warrior/tank in EQ1 and my job was to hold and keep agro off of the clerics/ chanters "Rangers" rogues etc. Warriors did have "taunt" skills but rangers/ rouge for example did so much damage even those skills couldn't pull the mob off of them many many times.

Reason i am asking is I was going to build a "tank" and have all 4 classes at VR 16 almost.

What is the best class for a tank that can get agrro and hold it so the mob doesnt jump around to the DPS / healers classes? or is that just not possible since Heavy Armor wears cant out DPS the other damage dealers.

The best tank class for holding aggro IMO is DK. I play a mag DK tank.

You don't need to taunt every single mob. Instead, cast Cinder storm for the initial AoE aggro (and snare), taunt the most dangerous (or CC immune) mob, then cast Choking Talons. From that point, cast Deep Breath to interrupt any enemies that are channeling and reapply taunts and Choking Talons when needed.
Igneous Shield is your go-to skill for stamina management.

CC and proximity to a mob generate strong aggro.

Thats Stam DK i assume, mine is magic or was planing on magic, maybe Magic Tank is no good?

ParaNostram

It is sad to see heavy armor in such a sad, sorry state...

Dubhliam

Reevster wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Yeah, I agree, currently anyone can use any armor skill which is not good.

I guess having armor skills require 5 pieces to activate might be a good idea, like OP suggested.
In which case the Break Free part from Immovable Brute should be reworked so that it's not a "while slotted" effect.

Although I highly doubt devs willake that change because that would directly gimp Armor Master set.
And we all know how much they love their DLC$.

Why?
While slotting an armor skill you get 5% max health.
While activating it you get extra defense. Activating the toggle would give you extra defense.
Regardless if its a toggle or an active skill, i doubt it would heavely effect the Armor master set.

Besides that, a set focused on tanking won't really be broken by 5K extra armor.

Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Reevster wrote: »

Ok so there seems to be mostly "Tanks" in this thread.

So I ask how you hold agro when other players are out DPSing you since your wearing HA with much less Damage output?

I mean i was a Warrior/tank in EQ1 and my job was to hold and keep agro off of the clerics/ chanters "Rangers" rogues etc. Warriors did have "taunt" skills but rangers/ rouge for example did so much damage even those skills couldn't pull the mob off of them many many times.

Reason i am asking is I was going to build a "tank" and have all 4 classes at VR 16 almost.

What is the best class for a tank that can get agrro and hold it so the mob doesnt jump around to the DPS / healers classes? or is that just not possible since Heavy Armor wears cant out DPS the other damage dealers.

The best tank class for holding aggro IMO is DK. I play a mag DK tank.

You don't need to taunt every single mob. Instead, cast Cinder storm for the initial AoE aggro (and snare), taunt the most dangerous (or CC immune) mob, then cast Choking Talons. From that point, cast Deep Breath to interrupt any enemies that are channeling and reapply taunts and Choking Talons when needed.
Igneous Shield is your go-to skill for stamina management.

CC and proximity to a mob generate strong aggro.

Thats Stam DK i assume, mine is magic or was planing on magic, maybe Magic Tank is no good?

Should I have bolded the "I play a mag DK tank" part?

Dubhliam

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Sorry @Fizzlewizzle but I have to disagree about needing 5+ piece of armor for armor skills cause it was that you didn't need even armor let alone heavy armor is why immovable got nerfed in the first place cause every one ran it for the CC immunity and that of course caused players to rage in PvP which as we all know made them cry to ZOS to nerf it to now cost way to much for very little benefits cause most class armor gives the same amount of resistance with more benefits that last way longer than 5 seconds and cost much less.

Plus you need a bow to use snipe, duel wield to steel tornado, and a 2H weapon to wrecking blow spam so it would only make sense that you need correct armor to use a armor skill.

Might be a misunderstanding...

I do not think you need 5/5 of any armor type to be allowed to use a certain skill.
Having skills potential/ power be based on how many of the corresponding armor you use would be a very valid option though.

To get more on point here: I think that the actual Heavy armor skill Immovable and morphs should buff the caster mostly by Major and Minor buffs to avoid stacking bonuses.

Immovable:

- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.

Immovable Brute:

- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Protection, Major Resolve and Major Ward, reducing your damage taken by 30% and increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also reduces your Weapon Power and Spell power by 20%
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- While slotted, the Stamina cost of breaking free from a disabling effect is reduced for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped

Unstoppable:

- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- Effect's duration and CC immunity is increased for each piece of Heavy armor equipped.

Passives are the place to integrate more bonuses based on HA equipped.
F.e.:
-add 0,5/1% damage reduction per HA equipped to Juggernaut passive
-add 50/75/100 resistance to critical hits per HA equipped to Resolve passive

dodgehopper_ESO

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I'd just like to add my two cents to this conversation, a description of my setup and experience is between the dotted lines, my suggestions for heavy Armor are below that. Wall of Text inbound:

............................................................

I've been wanting to play a Tanky DPS since before this game came out (I despise playing as Glass Cannons in any game but I still like dealing damage, even if it's not quite as much damage as a normal DPS) on Console (Xbox player) and was profoundly disappointed to learn when I got the game that Hybrid Builds were widely considered no longer viable as a result of softcaps being removed.

Disappointed but undeterred I have since been doing my best to devise my own build that plays in a way I enjoy that also successfully lets me be a Tanky DPS, and the struggle has been real. I've gone back and forth from Medium to Heavy too many times, respeccing my character every time at increasing expense as I leveled up, and since I've leveled up my crafting to 6 Traits of both Medium and Heavy it has allowed me to try a variety of sets of both armor types, making a set of Hundings and Whitestrake's etc for both and comparing their effectiveness.

My biggest problem has been that with this Meta being what it is, I'm pigeonholed into being a glass cannon by min/maxing like everyone else if I want to be a DPS in PvE groups, which since I won't do that means I'm forced to mark myself down as a tank, and in the process I have to be a good tank because I'm not going to intentionally gimp my team by not being properly prepared to do my job.

I was a Sergeant in PvP on my vet character (Imperial Dragonknight) before I ever even tried my first Dungeon, which should indicate just how big PvP is for me in this game, and when I tried being a Tank with my build I quickly realized how ineffectual I was in that roll and that I needed to rethink everything. So what I need to do is be a good Tank in PvE but also be able to kill things and players in PvP, not talking about doing a crazy amount of DPS but just enough to be able to kill people.

As you'd probably imagine, I've been able to get good at either one thing fairly easily, but doing both has been a challenge. If I focus too much on PvP effectiveness then I suffer in PvE and cannot be an effective tank, and that's not an option as long as min/maxing is required to be a proper DPS. By using a different combination of skills for each I can make up some of that gap, but not enough.

Right now I have a pretty even split between Health/Stamina, running Whitestrake's, Endurance, Agility and Engine Guardian, Recovery drinks, Two Handed on one bar (Agility Sword with two pieces of jewelry) and Sword and Shield (Endurance Sword and Shield and Ring) on the other. My skills in PvE are Executioner, Rally, Brawler, Wrecking Blow, Stampede, Ferocious Leap on my DPS bar, and Coagulating Blood, Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Pierce Armor, Shielded Assault and Magma Shell on my Tanking bar. For PvP I swap out Brawler for Retreating Maneuvers on my DPS bar and use Reverberating Bash and Resolving Vigor instead of Pierce Armor and Sheilded Assault, while everything else (including Gear) remains unchanged. For solo PvE content I use Retreating Maneuvers and Vigor instead of Pierce Armor and Shielded Assault. When I'm in the Arena I use Radiant Magelight instead of Retreating Maneuvers on my DPS bar.

My Two-Hander and Jewelry are all Weapon Damage glyphs, One Handed has Stamina recovery glyph, Shield has a Health glyph, and everything else has Stamina or Health but I was thinking Prismatic would be a good fit, but I only just hit V16 on my now First Sergeant and have only just started making my endgame gear, three pieces of V16 Whitestrake's left to craft (and an Updated Engine Guardian set for my level, Helmet is Light Armor V10 with Crit Resistance and Shoulders are Heavy V13 Infused, not my first choices but they're what RNGesus has blessed me with so I make do) and I'll have all V16 Purple or better gear.

I use Reinforced on my Chest and Legs, and will be using a combination of Reinforced and Impenetrable on the rest, not sure what I'll go with exactly yet but I'm thinking 3 Reinforced and 4 Impenetrable is what I'll go with. And not to forget, I use The Warrior Mundus Stone, and I use a wide range of potions to suit various situations, so many that I can't slot them all at once, which is frankly rather annoying but beside the point right now. Those potions are Health/Magicka/Stamina, Weapon Damage/Crit/Stamina, Crit/Health/Stamina, Unstoppable/Expedition/Stamina, Unstoppable/Health/Stamina, Detection/Spell Crit/Magicka, and Invisibility/Expedition, which when I also have my Drink and a Siege item slotted means I have one more potion than room to slot them.

I also have an Agility Bow that I can swap to when I need Ranged attacks for anything in either PvP or PvE, not enchanted yet because I barely use it and only have Snipe and a few points in passives right now, I'm a crafter of everything with maxed out crafting skills so I've been focusing on getting all my points I need everywhere else before investing more in my Bow that I barely use, but I have everything else I need and upgrading my Bow skills is next on my to-do list.

My precise current stats (unbuffed) are:
Two Handed:
9298 Magicka, 514 Recovery
23738 Health, 672 Recovery
19595 Stamina, 619 Recovery

2207 Weapon Damage, 22% Crit

23,233 Spell Resist, 15,945 Physical Resist
540 Crit Resist


One Hand and Shield (all the same except the following):
27,060 Health
843 Stamina Recovery
2107 Weapon Damage
28,074 Spell Resist
20,249 Physical Resist

Champion Points (260):
12 Warlord
75 Mooncalf
86 Mighty
38 Block Expertise
37 Spell Shield
12 Bastion

This set up has granted me the greatest success I've had yet, being just Tanky enough in PvE and PvP to suit my liking (and necessity) while also being able to Duel in PvP and be able to kill anyone besides the toughest to kill people, which is usually just Shield Stackers but I've had all classes give me a run for my money and I also win against all classes a fair amount. Generally the people I can't kill can't kill me either, and I'm good with that. I've had some epic fights lately that go on for minutes before one of us kills the other, and even when I lose, those fights are awesome and make me wish Dueling was an official thing, though I love the massive PvP and would play that more than Dueling anyway.

For me, as much as I'd love Heavy Armor to make me more Tanky in PvP than I am now (and I don't feel it's as good as it should be and only makes me slightly more Tanky than Medium), my main problem is PvE, where Heavy Armor does not give me enough Mitigation to be able to be as effective a tank as I should be, and I'm a firm believer that no one should ever mark themselves down for a roll if they're not prepared to do that roll effectively as if it was the sole focus of their build, which right now I'm worried I may not be doing as well as I should.

...............................................................

One of the biggest issues I have with other people's suggestions for fixing Heavy armor has been the people saying the passives should scale off max health, which I vehemently disagree with. For one thing neither Medium nor Light armor have any passives that scall off max Stamina/Magicka, they're all about increased Recovery, reduced Cost and more Damage, and some other bonuses that benefit the people who generally use that armor, improved sneaking and dodge Rolling and whatnot.

Having Heavy Armor be the only armor type that scales off a max resource makes no sense (it already does increase max health by a percentage, albeit a small one, and I'm good with that but no more passives should) and is also a terrible idea which will potentially make Heavy Armor even worse than it is now for people like me using Hybrid builds. I'm not too particular about what I want to see happen with Heavy, but one thing I absolutely feel needs to happen is that it needs to not be made worse than it is now for Hybrid Builds, and also that it should offer improved Damage Mitigation, as much as double that of Medium Armor.

When I'm sacrificing so much Resource management and Damage just to be more Tanky then I should get some bang for my buck, and right now I don't feel like I do, not even close. I could be using Medium and be nearly as Tanky while doing more Damage and having more Resources to work with, and don't even get me started on how messed up it is that Light Armor Sorcs can just stack Shields and be the Tankiest people of all without even a single point into Health, all while having insane DPS, that is so profoundly broken that I can't believe it's been allowed to continue for so long.

Damage Shields stacking off Health is great and would go a long way towards fixing shieldstacking, but I also think with that change that Damage Shields should be un-nerfed in PvP, because all my Damage Shields are relatively garbage right now and I feel like they're almost not worth using, while Sorcs can still stack shields and be nigh invincible even with them being cut in half. But that's a whole other conversation. I also think that damage scaling with resource pools is a terrible idea and should be undone ASAP, and returned to being based on Weapon/Spell Damage and Crit, but that is also another conversation.

Heavy Armor definitely needs to be buffed, but it needs to be buffed in a way that benefits Hybrid Builds as well as Tanks instead of pigeonholing Heavy Armor into the single roll of Tanking as so many people keep thinking it should. Any class and Build that wants to sacrifice some DPS for survivability should be able to wear Heavy and get something worthwhile out of it, not just Tanks. Hybrid Builds need a lot of love, and buffing Heavy Armor in a way that helps them (and doesn't hurt them) would be a great way to start.

One of my biggest problems of playing as a tank now is exactly the concerns you have. Being a PVP player and also doing PVE Tanks are so completely different that it requires a respec. No other class has to give up so much in order to be the tank, and I think that's a large part of what is turning off Tanks right now. I threw in the towel mainly because I wanted to be able to go through the new content without it taking all year to complete, as well as being actually functional in PVP. If they want the game to operate the way it does now they really need to give us multiple specs or they need to consider designing their system so a Tank can function outside of dungeon/trial meat shield (which by the way is boring as hell now).

Forestd16b14_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

.
Because it would limit the Armor skills you can use from 3 to 1.
I have Armor Master, and I use it on my magicka NB tank, mostly casting Harness Magicka (which is a Light Armor skill) so that means I could not use it anymore due to not having 5 LA. Same with my stam sorc tank, using Armor Master and Shuffle.
It would force all tanks into using only Immovable and morphs that cost stamina. Which would make stamina management more difficult.

Armor master has no rules for X amounts of Light/ Medium / Heavy armor.
You could still use it, regardless of what armor skill you use.
The heavy armor skill would only be limited by the amount of heavy armor you use, while the Light and medium could stay as they are.

No armor skill should have a 5/5 requirement (besides in the passives).
Light armor has an effect based on the amount of Light you use.
Medium doesn't (could be open for changes)
Heavy (suggestion) would also be based on the amount of heavy armor.

Sorry @Fizzlewizzle but I have to disagree about needing 5+ piece of armor for armor skills cause it was that you didn't need even armor let alone heavy armor is why immovable got nerfed in the first place cause every one ran it for the CC immunity and that of course caused players to rage in PvP which as we all know made them cry to ZOS to nerf it to now cost way to much for very little benefits cause most class armor gives the same amount of resistance with more benefits that last way longer than 5 seconds and cost much less.

Plus you need a bow to use snipe, duel wield to steel tornado, and a 2H weapon to wrecking blow spam so it would only make sense that you need correct armor to use a armor skill.

Might be a misunderstanding...

I do not think you need 5/5 of any armor type to be allowed to use a certain skill.
Having skills potential/ power be based on how many of the corresponding armor you use would be a very valid option though.

Maybe or maybe not I don't know but I am just going off what has happened though and not needing even to wear heavy armor to use the skill lead to ever one using it for the CC immunity which lead to it's over the top nerf cause most of the PvP players were saying it's way to OP because CC wasn't working on any one because every one was running it and if any one deserves to truly be immovable and immune to CC is those players who take the time, resources, and dedication to wear heavy armor and be the meat shield after all they do sacrifice their DPS (which is extremely big in this game) to become what they assumed to be nearly unkillable.

DephlaterMouse

I'd like to see them combine a couple of the increase health and the health regeneration and add 1 that will actually increase survivability and resource management in PVP.

Add a 15/30% chance when struck by a critical hit to generate a shield bubble 5/10% max health and increase magical/stamina regeneration by 40/60% for 4 seconds.

I believe that would be a "must wear 5 pieces" ability. This kind of ability would IMHO make it possible to put most of your points into health, and count on this passive to keep you in resources in PVE and PVP.

i3ig_Gun

Wearing heavy armor should make me a PvE god....

Forestd16b14_ESO

DephlaterMouse wrote: »

I'd like to see them combine a couple of the increase health and the health regeneration and add 1 that will actually increase survivability and resource management in PVP.

Add a 15/30% change when struck by a critical hit to generate a shield bubble 5/10% max health and increase magical/stamina regeneration by 40/60% for 4 seconds.

I believe that would be a "must wear 5 pieces" ability. This kind of ability would IMHO make it possible to put most of your points into health and count on this passive to keep you in resources in PVE and PVP.

Could work but maybe change the stamina/magic regeneration to reduce cost seeing how there's no stamina regeneration when blocking.

Dubhliam

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

Wearing heavy armor should make me a PvE godTANK....

Fixed that for you.

As per reworking the Immovable HA skill and morphs, I have given it much thought and this is what I think would be the best solution: (note: these are skill only improvements, passives have a lot of room for improvement too)

Immovable:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Immovable Brute:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Protection, Major Resolve and Major Ward, reducing your damage taken by 30% and increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also reduces your Weapon Power and Spell power by 20%
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- While slottedactive, the Stamina cost of breaking free from a disabling effect is reduced for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

Unstoppable:

Requires at least 1 heavy armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 13,5 seconds 5 seconds
- Intensify your physical presence to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 13,5 seconds.
- Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effect for 5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.
- Knockback and disabling effect immunity is increased by 1,5 seconds for each piece of heavy armor equipped.

The 1 piece requirement should then also be implemented in LA and MA skills.
Same with skill duration.

Annulment

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Dampen Magic

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- Amount of damage absorbed is increased by 3% for each piece of light armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Harness Magicka

Requires at least 1 light armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Surrond yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to X Spell Damage over 20 seconds.
- While active, up to three times when spell damage is absorbed, you are restored for X Magicka. This bonus increases by 3% for each piece of Light Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of light armor equipped.

Evasion

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Shuffle

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- While wearing Medium Armor, removes and grant immunity to snaring effects. Increases snare immunity duration by ,5 seconds for each piece of Medium Armor equipped up to 3,5 seconds.
- Effect's duration is increased by 2 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Elude

Requires at least 1 medium armor equipped to cast.
Duration: 20 seconds 5 seconds
- Shroud yourself in mist to gain Major Evasion, which increases your dodge chance by 20% for 20 seconds.
- Duration is increased 5% for each piece of Medium Armor equipped.
- Effect's duration is increased by 3,5 seconds for each piece of medium armor equipped.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Well something I did think of during the daily pledges that could help tanking is change inner fire and it's morphs to also taunt atleast 1 nearby enemy near the target you casted it on. That way you can get more taunts with less use cause IDK about every one else but I tend to run into the problem when I am taunting I always double taunt some enemy NPCs cause they stack up when they all come charging at you when your in a corridor or something.

hrothbern

Did anybody hear anything from the side of ZOS about buffing HA recently ?
Can we expect something with the DB DLC ?
The Official thread on Tanking, the calling all tanks from @ZOS_Finn , is quiet.
Nothing re HA on the last ESO live.

Perhaps I missed out and something was stated by ZOS recently on another forum ?

krees28b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

Did anybody hear anything from the side of ZOS about buffing HA recently ?
Can we expect something with the DB DLC ?
The Official thread on Tanking, the calling all tanks from @ZOS_Finn , is quiet.
Nothing re HA on the last ESO live.

Perhaps I missed out and something was stated by ZOS recently on another forum ?

I believe they said in a recent ESO Live that they were going to look at buffing heavy armor. And that was it, nothing else since then.

Forestd16b14_ESO

hrothbern wrote: »

Did anybody hear anything from the side of ZOS about buffing HA recently ?
Can we expect something with the DB DLC ?
The Official thread on Tanking, the calling all tanks from @ZOS_Finn , is quiet.
Nothing re HA on the last ESO live.

Perhaps I missed out and something was stated by ZOS recently on another forum ?

Since ESO live think it was the 2nd thief guild special that Wrobel said that they know HA is under powered and needs buffed to be more tanky. But that's all the info they gave and has given since then.

Eirikir

You want to add to HA, I would make it the total go to for Tanks. Give it 2 "five or more" traits like LA has. Here are the changes I would make...

1. Fuse Juggernaut and Rapid Mending into a single trait (Juggernaut) and raise the boosted HP and HP regen from .5/1% to 1/2%.

2. Replace Rapid Mending with a new "5 or more" skill called Guardian. With two ranks the skill would change block bashing. Rank 1 would allow for a "heavy attack" like bash with a 5 second taunt when blocking reguardless of weapon type. And Rank 2 would boost the taunt to 10 seconds.

Pierce is still better taunt-wise, but it would suddenly give tanks some weapon options other then sword and board in a taunt starved game.

UltimaJoe777

Heavy Armor Passives compared to others:

Resolve: This is honestly fine.
Constitution: Another that is on par with the others, if not better.
Juggernaut: This one could use a buff. Why not make it 1% per rank per piece instead of .5%? Passive doesn't live up to its name...
Bracing: Fine as is as far as I'm concerned.
Rapid Mending: This one is kind of situational and may benefit from replacement. The question is, by what?

Forestd16b14_ESO

So @ZOS with DB arriving on PTS here on Monday......... you wouldn't have happened to you know look over some of these post now would you. Like you guys did say HA buffs after all and well here is a collection of changes players want.

Mettaricana

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

- Double heavy armor ratings.
- Triple Resistance cap.
- Leave Light and Medium armor untouched.

This^

Honestly tank armor needs to tank it seems stupid we need armor set effects on heavy ar or to actually tank why not hundings rage so a tank can actually hit something. Rather than stat crunching armor and spell with armor master footmans and whatever. Also doubling it makes the undaunted passive make more sense to mix armors

Lynx7386

What I think heavy armor needs:

1. One of the passives should provide heavy armor with resistance to spell/armor penetration. Currently the biggest reason heavy armor is useless is because the massive amounts of penetration run by damage builds completely negate your armor bonuses, leaving you with nothing else to benefit from - heavy armor doesnt really restore resources like medium or light do, and doesnt benefit damage at all, so without those resistances you're getting nothing.
Make one of the passives give you 5/10% resistance to spell and armor penetration per piece of heavy armor equipped, going up to 70% with 7 pieces.

2. Heavy armor should provide a larger boost to health per piece equipped. I'd like to see 2/4% more health per piece, going up to 28% extra health with 7 pieces. The current 7% extra health is just pitiful.

3. Rather than restoring an arbitrary amount of magicka and stamina each time you take damage (and on a 4 second cooldown at that, ridiculous), Heavy armor should restore a percentage of your max health as magicka and stamina when taking damage. 0.5/1% of your max health restored as magicka and stamina, each time you take damage, with a 2 second internal cooldown would be fine. If you're running 50,000 health, which is up there for a tanking build with a focus on health, that's going to be 500 health and magicka restored every 2 seconds in a constant damage fight. That's the kind of resource recovery you need to be sustainable here (at least when combined with other sources).

4. Healing received per piece of heavy armor should be increased to 2%, for a maximum of 14% extra healing received. 7% is too low.

5. In some way, shape, or form, heavy armor needs some kind of offensive boost. It shouldnt be as good for dps builds as medium or light, but it should be capable of holding its own. My suggestion would be to modify immovable brute and unstoppable morphs for the immovable passive.
Unstoppable should reduce the cost of break free while slotted, and make you immune to snares, roots, stuns, knockbacks, and any other disabling effects when active (instead of just knockbacks/disabling effects)
Immovable Brute should Increase your damage done while slotted, in a fashion similar to flawless dawnbreaker (but for all damage, not just weapon), and when active should provide major brutality. This has a double effect of giving all weapon types and builds an ability to grant major brutality, so we'd stop seeing quite so many people running with 2h just for rally.

Jade1986

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wish dead threads were allowed to RIP.

The Op is completely incorrect since he is coming from the direction of solo dps with ha instead of tanking which is what ha is about. He states that in the op which renders this thread mute.

So you are able to tank in light armor, but you shouldnt be allowed to dps with heavy?

Flawed logic is flawed.